I just re-read this and thought about it. OM was a good lover - don't get me wrong,but it was nothing spectacular or stand out amazing, or even memorable. it was in the back seat of a CAR. What I remember the most is that HE seemed to enjoy ME, and it made me feel attractive and alive...but the sex itself I barely even remember. I was glad when it was over and now we could focus on ME some more, telling me how he felt, the good things aobut me. For me - sexual banter, SF, and all that was a MEANS to get what I needed out of him. If I stopped doing that for HIM, I seemed to stop getting what I need.

For me really good SF means there is an emotional intimacy, its romantic and its just between two people...I have this love making with my H, I didn't for years, but i do again. I never felt this with OM, not on either of the two occasions. Sure there was some excitement, it was something new, but it was not at all something memorable, amazing, or mind blowing. It was rather plain and disappointing...but you see - I wasn't just looking to "get off" I wanted that emotional intimacy, and how can there be that in a relationship that was built on lies and playing eachother?

This post gets more interesting by the minute.

Hopeful, you and I are very close on our D days. Ours was on June 17th. (three days after our 19th wedding anniversary) and a day I will never ever forget. Your right in feeling some of these questions and answers are a bit painful.

The part of the bs wanted to know that they are not forgotten by the op really is an eye opener and something to keep in mind....and keep eyes wide open.

I can't wait for the day when I can go thru a day without thinking about it.

Ok I agree with that comment too, but I have found that was the case for the first month past D-day; than all of a sudden things changed.

During the first 30 days we not only had some of the best sex, we did it 14 times! Since than over the next 30 days we did it 3 times, with only one of them I would call WOW.

What happened? I’m trying to figure if it has anything to do with her fog or what?

I would be interested if anyone has the answer to that and if they do, is there another milestone where it switches back again?

when i first discovered that my husband had cheated-i threw him out for a weekend

when he came home-I WANTED SF constantly. 2-3 times per day at first then at least 1 time per day for about 3 months. i thought that was all his affair was about and i wnated to be the one he wanted

of course he "went along with it" and seemed to be enjoying it as much as i was

after about 6 months-he started having some trouble "performing/getting aroused.he actually said one time "i don't know what is going on. right now you are dressed like a playboy bunny (no tail or ears) and are beautiful-any guy would love to be me right now."

i guess he was missing her/thinking of her

i don't know but it occured more often-it seemed even during SF his mind was wandering

it still seemed there were many great times of SF-like when we dated

at the end of june he got me a new puppy for my birthday-to "add to our happy little family"

i remember we had crazy SF in our pool in the middle of sept the day before they closed it-after he carried me around in the water for hours telling me how much he loved me and how happy he was

then i found out that late sept/early oct was when he called the MOW and told her how unhappy he was and the affair started again.(i didn't know)

i remember how confused he seemed in oct when he gave me "the ILYBNILWY" speech. he seemed to be arguing with himself. he said "I'm not attracted to you anymore. but i must be-remember SF in the pool? the hot tub? etc.... I just don't think i'm in love with you."

after one SF in the beginning of OCT-he wouldn't let me touch him again. he said "i just don't feel that way about you anymore." once i tried to kiss him goodnight and he said"don't you get it, i'm not attracted to you! I don't feel that way about you anymore"

i lost about 60 pounds before he left-he said i looked like i did when we dated "too bad I'm not attracted to you anymore"

he left in april

MaggieG,

I would like to think that someday Undo and I will look back on this and laugh at a few things because our marriage will be so strong. When I feel that way I will ask her about questions 1,2 & 5. Why? Because there's some part of me that just needs to know... but not now.

I can't handle any new info right now. I feel like the road rash is so deep that it's starting to hit bone. It will take forever to heal and I just can't do that if I hear new info. Let me process what I know for now and then we'll go from there.

HLR

"During the first 30 days we not only had some of the best sex, we did it 14 times!"

14 times... rookie. We were going at sometimes two to three times per day for the first two weeks. We were both walking funny for a while. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Everyone’s comments made go look at my journal and it confirmed what everyone was saying with one exception, mine just tanked! Does everyone experience this and if so what’s next or is there another explanation?

Whe you say "this" I'm assuming you are refering to the sex. Ours increased so much that we need a break. It's almost like we were first dating. Of course I don't know if that has to do with her guilt and trying to make up for what she did or me subconsciously trying to make her feel that she only needs me.

The odd part that I have discovered is that when we have sex I never think of her or the OM. I only see us and I feel that she is the same way. I know some people had a hard time getting past that part after D-day which is why I started this thread so that I could get the input of WS's during the A.

My next thread will linger to different stages of the A with both WS and BS. That will give everyone a chance to add comments that may address some of your questions.

Actually for me there has been only two times that during our love making, I thought of the other man. Both of those times where not our best love making session and the last one she said was her fault for being tired.

Maybe what she said was true, but we usually have long wonderful time making love and it is noticeable if there is something wrong or missing. Which leads me to my last comment, 30 days great and 25 not. I’m wondering if there is a reason she changed so dramatically over the last three weeks?

Many men and women become hypersexual when they discover an affair. This is all part of evolution and a drastic change in brain chemistry related to the fear of losing one’s partner.

Sometimes, the WS becomes hypersexual after been caught. These are mostly the cake eaters who never intended to leave the marriage and now they also have fear of losing the spouse due to the threat of divorce.

Some BS are unable to have SF after D-day and some men may even develop impotency. Many women cannot stand the touch of the WH and all they see is the OW between them. Men also experience flashes of OM during love making and it is like a cold shower.

Some men and women are also troubled by the issue of “Am I good enough in bed” in relationship to the OP.

IMO, all of these items are important and should be discussed. The good news is that they can be overcome.

It has been my experience on this board that hyper sexuality by the WS, full NC, and a BS that wants the marriage generally means a healthy recovery. But, this mainly applies to cake eaters. Those who are in an exit affair are in a different ballpark.

Dorry said:


My wife could have written those words. I believe it has to do with a strong desire for admiration. In my wife's case she was the best OM ever had, however, she still has doubts.


Exactly-------- you must be my wife posting with another screen name! Now I am 99% sure!

BTW, past D-day OM used to call my wife to make sure her self esteem was still OK. OM was in charge of my wife’s self esteem. Do you realize that no one can raise the self esteem of another person. Pretty words are temporary--- band-aids. There is one thing about OMs. They know what to say and they are smooth!


This is another one I fail to understand. My wife's OM was a serial cheater too!

Sure, OM are smooth, but deep inside they are hollow and devoid of any integrity. Why do WWs see these OMs as great men? Is it the fog? Anyone can see through them. For example my wife’s OM said his current OW was not giving him enough SF. Had he been married he would have said his wife is not giving him SF! Let me get this straight------------- the OM left his wife who was good in the sac for an OW who was a cow in bed??? Really??? My wife didn’t pick up on this. Dorry, there is a Disney element in affairs--------- I have no doubt.

LOL - unless you are Sprint under a different screen name, I just think your wife (myrta I think right?) and I just alot in common and have dug down deep within to really analyze these things.

You should be proud because if your wife has done the analyzing I have done, then she is probably making the amazing changes like I am, and you can be sure this will probably never happen to you guys again.

Definately a Disney element. Om's wife was also my friend, and I know she was willing to put out everynight - he wasn't interested in SF with her...and he admited she was good in bed too - just he wasn't attracted to her.

I never looked at OM as a great man. I don't know how to explain it - i thought he had good qualities, but he was seriously someone I would never go for. He and I even joked about it - that I would have never given the likes of him a second look in the bar. That he was a life time cheater. He used to try to convince me, he had only ever cheated on his W, and it was because he never wanted to marry her, that it was because she was pregnant...and he would never cheat on me...but I knew better and told him he was addicted to sex and he would cheat on me too. I also knew from his W about moments in their marriage that obviously were more than just obligation - real happy moments. Did it stop me? no - it was his smoothness, his talk, the way his talk made me feel that kept me drawn. very sad indeed.

Hi Stanley,

I just wanted to add something about your comments:


I don't think any FWWs really have 'good' memories of the A SF once they are out of the fog. For me it felt good at the time, but the memories are now tarnished because of the damage I did. I cannot think about it without shame, sadness and some cringing. I have done my best to block out those memories. I am impressed with everyone who writes about them here!

I am another FWW whose motivation was admiration, attention and support - SF was the means. Prior to the A, I hadn't felt that H was attracted to me, willing or able to empathise or give, or even very interested in me as a person. Obviously this had as much to do with my self image as anything he did. We had a lot of unresolved issues.


There is another kind, which is the FWS who keeps the A secret after it has ended and comes out of the fog on their own - that was me. My motivation to save the M built up after I had NC, gradually came out of the fog and began stewing over what I had done, until eventually I was in horror. I realised I had to confess to save my M.

In a strange way, this might have made it harder for H to accept and forgive. Everything was already over when he found out, and he had nothing or nowhere to direct his anger and hurt - OM was just a phantom who he had never met and would never meet.

I have to agree with Smur...when i remember those things, I get sad that I am writing about me. but this is where I have come a long way, and remind myself, that isn't who I am today, and remind myself that I made horrible mistakes and did horrible things, but I myself am not horrible. Then it makes it easier to share these things with others knowing that these things may help someone else. The shame isn't as overwhelming as it used to be, as I gave most of it to God...but it saddens me to know that it is myself and my actions and I am writing about.

Yes, IMO all As are cake eating - that is why they are kept secret and not openly discussed before the EA or PA begins. The WS wants to make their life or M bearable, or in cases where it is not bad, they want to pump up their self-esteem, but they are also afraid of being honest with their S because they are not ready to give up the M!


I'm not sure.... I did have deficits in my ENs - admiration, conversation (mainly listening), affection. Perhaps she has a very high need for admiration? THis one is hard to detect.


Again I am not sure from my own experience, as my A didn't last long. I guess the answer is yes from what I've read.


I have no idea - we never had a formal NC letter etc. After the PA, contact was only via email and infrequent (he lived in another city), then I stopped replying and he never tried to email me again. I don't think he ever loved me, I think it was just sex and an ego boost. This is one thing H found really hurtful after dday - imagining OM boasting in the pub about his conquest.


Not at all.


I can't imagine any.


I was never in a situation where this was a possibility, so its hard to answer. I guess if I imagine this, it is alarm at the pain it would cause H.

1. Did it petrify you when the A advanced to a PA?
Absolutely terrified me. I started drinking excessively and smoking again after giving up for 6 years.
2. What were you thinking during the sex?
That I loved him more than anyone I'd ever loved before.

3. Was the sex enjoyable or disappointing?
Very disappointing. He was terrible.

4. Did you feel guilty?
Yes. Horribly, anxiety attacks and my life fell apart. I nearly lost my job.

5. If the PA continued even though you felt guilty or sick then why did you continue with it?
Because I loved him.

6. What was the reaction of OP when affair ended after D-day?
He ended it. But tried to start up again "as friends"

7. How persistent was OP to re-start the affair?
He wasn't - once it was over and he knew my H knew it was REALLY over.

8. IS there any advantage for the BS to confront the OP?
I don't know - probably not. Just the satisfaction of seeing someone extremely scared.

9. Why does the WS wants to avoid a confrontation between OP and BS?
I don't want to avoid a confrontation. I'd love my H to punch him in the mouth.

Jen

Dorry said:




That is a lot to say after a couple of sessions. IMHO, a good lover is a man who can still get the wife to the orgasmic plateau in an exciting and thrilling way despite a long-term marriage. In a very short-term relationship like an affair anyone can put on a show. Remember, they always show their good side.


Then you said:


I bet you OM’s wife would rate him as mediocre in bed. My wife’s OM was rated the same way by another long term OW.


This is an aphrodisiac for women that rate the EN of admiration as No. 1. When my wife drives me wild in bed and (she knows this by simply looking at me) she explodes into an orgasm of major proportions. At this point she knows that for me there is nothing greater in the universe than her.


You’re affair was of short duration. My wife’s Affair lasted over two years and it was long distance with monthly meetings. With short meetings every several weeks the SF never got old. In fact, it got better with time. If my wife had stopped after the 1st few times she would be saying exactly what you are saying.



You were never in love with this OM.


That is the key difference; my wife achieved the emotional intimacy. And that is the key ingredient for great SF. She contemplated getting out early on as you did, but her OM was a master manipulator and was relentless. He coached her non-stop regarding my wife’s early ambivalence about having SF. In fact the 1st few times OM traveled to town my wife was unable to have physical intimacy. However, OM never gave up------ he was very persistent. My MC is convinced OM has an antisocial personality trait in his make up. Once the affair ended OM was equally relentless in his desire to destroy the marriage. In fact, I am not sure he has given up yet (15 months post d-day).



This is quite similar to my wife. However, after time went by my wife slowly brought OM to the top ands classified him as the one she had waited for all her life. This highly rated classification plummeted after she came out of the fog. However, in the fog OM was God.


Same here------ OM had no clue as to why my wife would pay attention to him. However, OM knew that he could get his way with smooth words.



I don’t think your OM was madly in love with you. Sorry if that puts a dent in your desire for admiration. OTOH, my wife’s OM was in LOVE all the way. He knew my wife and I had SF and somehow he said he blocked that out of his mind to be able to tell himself his love was normal and pure. As a regular guy I cannot understand what is like to be madly in love with a woman that is in her husband’s bed every night. That certainly requires some mental masturbation, fogginess, and Disney like thinking. I can understand an OM who wants some action with a married woman with no love involved. However, to fall in love with someone that shares a bed every night with someone else is wacky and illogical------- IMHO.


Sorry about my ranting, but I will never be able to understand this thing even thou I am well into recovery. Thank you for listening!

I am far enough out of the fog - to be honest, I hope he now thinks nothing of me. but for months following the A, I hoped that he thought that of me - that I was the best he ever had...but I also knew he was smooth and knew I had probably been played the whole way along. He even could bring on the tears everytime i tried to break it off to just friends...boy that man could cry, but I realized after that he may just be a great player. And it doesn't matter in the end what he thought of me...what matters is what my H thinks of me, and what I think of myself - Om can go to h*ll.

Stan - H had an affair 6 months into our recovery. Started an EA, then asked for a seperation, then left (abandoned) the children and I for 4 weeks to persue a PA relationship with a single mom. He soon realized this wasn't what he wanted and called me and confessed. My goal hadn't changed, and we reconciled. This was 2 months ago. His drive and reasons for his A are SOOO different from mine and to be honest, I have a hard time understanding his. I know how he got there, I know how the negative cycle works - but his anger of me was so bad, he wanted to replace me, and was willing to loose the children over it. I can't fathom that. I never wanted to replace him or leave him...he can't fathom that, how could I want to be with him when I am doing this.

So - Sprint and I have agreed that we will never truly understand eachother's A's - but understand how we both got into them and how we both never really meant to hurt eachother. We have left it at that, and now focus on the now and the future. But A's are the hardest thing to wrap your head around - even for the WS...as much as I have picked through mine, I still can't believe I did it...

1. Did it petrify you when the A advanced to a PA?

No.

2. What were you thinking during the sex?

"I can't believe I'm doing this."

3. Was the sex enjoyable or disappointing?

It was enjoyable.

4. Did you feel guilty?

At the time, no. I do now.

5. If the PA continued even though you felt guilty or sick then why did you continue with it?

Not applicable.

SF had always been good to outstanding until the A.

During the 4 weeks the A was secret, SF was amazing. Her secret A had turned her into a wild woman. The change should have been an indicator if I'd been more alert.

Since WW confessed, SF has been rare and just okay. In those rare times when our relationship is looking up, we do okay. On the many bad days, nada. Also I'm such a wreck I'm not very interested in SF with WW. That doesn't sound so good does it? Sounds like I need to do much better at meeting her needs.

Has anyone experienced a quick decline in the SF about a month after D-Day? We seemed to go from feast to famine. If you did what can be done to get it back on track?