Well folks, this proves my theory that people who prey on other poeples problems are essentally cowards. OM had an annonomous forum to discuss his problems with people that would help him face his failings as a person. Since he couldn't get our blessing, he ran like the woos that he is. This validates everything that MT said about him.<BR> <BR>MT, if you are still out there, you have carried the day in the pursuit to restore your family. <P>Mir, seeing MT's persistence at restitution against OM persistence at cowardice, how can there be any doubt in your heart which one will stay with you. MT has been thru hell and back for you and your family. The only thing OM acheived is the breakup of two families to the continuing torment of your sons. MT's problems are solvable. OM's cowering is forever. And he demonstraited suicidal tendencies in this forum.

Persistence, you have no Idea. I am no coward, but am merely letting you all know that your persistence copout is dillusioned. I could care less what you think of me. The facts are the facts and you all did not get "the facts", only the lies from a dillusional mind who will do and use anything to force his way on a woman who has had enough bull**** in her life. Right now she is saving herself, and thats the bottom line. MT is only doing what he has done to scare her into submission, boy thats love. I've said and done some stupid things throughout life and take responsibility for my actions. Never have I chased any woman around with a knife and I didn't have restraining orders by my ex's to take my kids from me. fighter, well you know your problems, and they must be preety bad because your advice and perception of me are totally wrong. It may be your opinion, but its definitly wrong. Every one else who has been following along with MT's posts, well continue to do so and believe what you will about what is going on and what you think of me. Mir is not nor has she ever had a reason to fear me, I haven't put my kids in harms way on more than 3 occasions, and I don't care about "what he's going through", you never use kids to force someone into submission. I do care about the kids, and they were doing just fine where she is, with or without me there. I'm not posting anymore so feel free to trash me, because you know what? I know myself, you don't. Judge me for what you want but you all are one sided. Yes it was wrong but it happened and I do love her. She isn't going back to him and I am not living with her. Go figure that, she is by herself and still wont go back to him.

Other Man:<P>If you care so little about what we think of you, why do you keep defending your actions here?<P>------------------<BR>/// Lone Star * ///<P><BR>

hhhmmmmm, let me see if I have this right, you come here to "defend" yourself, you reveal all kinds of PERSONAL information about a woman who is not YOUR wife, and the man she is married to. You don't like the response's you get from us, so you go back and edit almost everything you said out. I like TnT, am VERY concerned for Mir, more because of the things YOU have said than anything else. I hope she can figure out from our replys to you what kind of trash you were puting out here. Just grow up and stop playing games, please, you are only hurting people, not helping.<P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>

Just finished reading the new postings since I posted late this morning. <P>I too have been on the receiving end of infidelity. It was and continues to be the hardest thing I ever went through. It has been 61/2 years ago for me. I still carry it, although have forgiven.<P>The one thing I know is that it is devastating. I have to say that I do admire Mt for keeping mostly in control. I would have gone way off the deep end. I feel for the children involved mostly. However, I have spoken to Mir on several occassions since this all began, and I do believe she still loves MT. I know that she is confused, and belwidered. <P>MT has told me repeatedly that he loves he UNCONDITIONALLY and just wants to be back with her. <P>There is not a doubt in my mind, that Mir and MT can reunited and make their marriage work.<P>It really isn't about the who did what to whom anymore.. I have joined this site, because I like what it stands for, Marriagebuilders. We are all here seeking support to help us make our marriages better and strong. To give us strength to forgive. I think after all that has been posted here, we have all formed an opionion. One thing is for sure... OM could not ever show the type of UNCONDITIONAL love that MT has for Mir.<P>More than anything.. I would love to see them reunited, and build their marriage to a very strong and stable relationship. <P>My Councelor recently told me that the makings of a happy marriage come from 5 things: (1)Trust (2)Communication (3)Commitment (4) Responsibility and (5)Respect. Once upon a time... MT and Mir had all five and even I was envious. I know they can rebuild and become even better. <P>Mir you are on my mind, and I hope you find your way soon. You were once my very best friend.. closer than even my sisters. We possessed a closeness than words cannot express. I love and miss you. I look forward to a time when you guys have everything worked out - one way or the other. <P>Give my love to the boys and tell them my (3) asked about them always. We all love and miss you.<P>Keep strong.. and just know that I am here. Nothing has changed about how I feel and never will. <P>Love and Prayers,<BR>Friend2U2<P>------------------<BR>"Despite Everything, I still believe people are basically good at heart" Anne Frank - "Diary of Anne Frank"<BR>

Friend, are you Empty? Although I don't post much i have found this particular thread really "for entertainment purposes only" because of the defensive nature of it all. Quit playing games, take care of the kids, and get on with healing yourselves. You are adults, now act like it.

I'm sorry, but I gain much through this site, and don't think that Empty has his head on straight. He sounds almost as if he's borderline schitzophrenic, in his dealings with his wife, and the OM, well there's a basket case if you ever saw it. Threatening suicide and the gamut, geesh. This situation is completely convoluded, and Empty has obviously much to do with it, he needs to understand that he is chasing after some type of elusive dream that doesn't even want him now, but needs to go about showing Mir that he has intentions of changing. Mir needs to realize she can't just play two people like this, and she's in the center of it. It's her, not the OM that is the problem here, except for the fact that the OM posted and tried make his ridiculous case in defense, unfreakingbelieveable. If this isn't some sort of made up scenario, I'm really perplexed for the people involved, and sad for the kids. Those kids deserve more than this, imagine what they'll grow up like, having this type of situation to deal with on a daily basis. This is what creates children who grow into adults who cannot foster true relationships, I know because I grew up this way. And I had major problems with it, and am seeing a counselor today because of it, and am in the process of my wife divorcing me over it. People wake up and smell the coffee, you have responsibilities and you are so self involved that you can only see your own little world, in which you are only involved. Empty, continue to get help and realize that you need to let Mir go for now until you are healed. OM, don't involve yourself in a married family, and stop trying to defend yourself. And Mir, you need to stop giving MT any hope until you get to the point where you stop playing him. All of you are people who use anger to guide you, stop dead in your tracks and seek solace. And think of those kids, they are innocent.

OM, just by going on the facts about yourself that you supplied. <BR>It is understandable for a person to want to keep their marriage and their children and to go to extremes to do it. You gave up your family and your children. Obviously, family is not as imortant to you as it is to MT. So what, if you pay child support. Being a father to your children means being there. How far are you from them now?<BR>It is also understandable that MT would be upset over Mir chosing someone like you. <BR>Taking responsibility for you actions is not enough. You need to right the wrongs you created. First, you should take care of the children from your first marriage. Your kids see you going thru all of this effort for Mir's and MT's kids and what is left for them?<BR>Get a job. You need something else to occupy your time and start moving towards stability.<P>Break off all communication and contact with Mir. She needs to decide what is right for her. If you don't like the way that MT is playing it, too bad. It is none of your business. He is her husband and has every right to do or say anything as long as he doesen't break the law. It might be better if he does very little. But having you there to constantly upset his efforts prolongs the finality of this ordeal. MT will rise or fall based on his own merits. It is also ridiculous to propose that MT could put her into "submission". Mir is an adult with the responsibilities for four boys. It is inconcieveable that she would have the time to be submissive to anyone. THe work alone to keep a household of four boys running would leave little time for anything else.<BR>However, it would be a bit easier if at least two of the boys had their father and not yet another stranger.

Mir - if you are out there - can you see that your boyfriend is not truthful, and dangerous?<P>He cannot edit my posts. But he has threatened - and tried to make himself look totally attacked. This man was not attacked, he is deranged.<P>Deranged: 1. to upset the arrangement or working of 2. to make insane<P>*******<BR>Dangerous for you - get help!!!!

For all of you who are wondering.. I am not MT. I am in fact a friend that has known Mir and MT for quite a long time. I am just like all of you and hate to see what they are all going through. <P>I am posting here in an effort to reach Mir., in hopes that I may somehow be able to help her through all of this.<P>I have been watching all of this take place in front of my eyes for the past 7 months and still cannot believe it. I sure as hell cannot comprehend it.<P>Mir was always the person I looked up to and admired. She worked very hard at her family as did MT. They always seemed like the inseparateable couple. <P>In all actuality, MT and I didn't really get along or have much to do with each other until this whole mess began. I came into the entire situation because Mir brought me into it. She baby sat for me so that I could work, and when I got home she begged me to return the favor. Little did I know why. That was the night that she and OM slept together for the first time. <P>I cannot help but feel hurt as well as betrayed; and maybe somewhat responsible. I had an intuition that night, but never thought that she would use me like that. <P>Sometimes I wish that I would have just told her no.. and would not have returned the favor. <P>It was after this that MT reached out and asked me for help. <P>I know that OM and Mir both read these postings, and I hope that something said will reach them both and spare any more hurt. I would like to see her find her way back home. We all love and miss her dearly. My life and my children's lives are not the same.<P>Being on the receiving end of infidelity, I know how I reacted and handled my own situation. I applaud MT for the way he has handled his. <P>I have learned alot about true "unconditional" love from seeing how much MT truly loves Mir and the children. Willing to totally forgive and forget, to want nothing more than a second chance at happiness. <P>I forgave my husband, but I never forgot. My jealously and rage tore our marriage apart. As of 8/16, I have been married for 8 years, and as of 6/11 - been separated for 2.5 months. All of the if's, should have's, would have's, etc.. do not change anything.<P>For me and my marriage, It is mostly likely too far gone to get back. The damage has been done. <P>For MT and Mir, I think they can do it. Both of them truly love each other, and I know MT accepts his faults and just wants to try again, doing it right. MT has completely forgiven Mir and is willing to forget.. Now if Mir can forgive and forget MT as well as herself, THE MARRIAGE CAN WORK!!!<P>I have also been the victim of abuse and I know that it only gets worse. I have lived through the hell of having a loaded gun held to my head and my ribs broke. My ex grabbed me around the neck and blocked off my airway until I nearly passed out. <P>I recognize the signs of an abuser and I know that OM fits the profile. I am hoping that Mir realizes this before it is too late.<BR>I know by reading a lot of the postings here that some of you see the same signs. Maybe something one of us say on here will reach Mir.<P>------------------<BR>"Despite Everything, I still believe people are basically good at heart" Anne Frank - "Diary of Anne Frank"<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Friend2u2 (edited August 18, 1999).]

Otherman,<P>I am the other woman. when I hear you speak of your lady from the affair....I know my OM speaks of me the same. He loves me, respects me and I in return love him. I have been bashed on this board too. I treid to defend myself.. I found out that the people who where bashing, saying it would never work, were people who had been hurt by an affair, either they were the wife or husband who got left, or the other person and the person they were having the affair with went back to repair their marriage. I have been involved for a year with a man I think of as my best friend. I am not proud of what I am doing, but I will tell you that if he ever backs away for the good of my marriage, I will be very upset. Without him, I could not stay here for my kids. Only you know what you feel and what type of relationship you have with OW. You will have to answer to God, to your kids not anyone else. I know how you feel. I also know that everyone deserves to be loved. To keep all in tact my OM and I have an agreement......we never loose the friendship for the physical, if the friendship changes because of the physical, the physical stops, The friendship is the most important thing, and the other rule is No expectations, no promises. If OW is your friend, and wife is not.............it is hard to walk away. Friends help make the day worth living. God bless you.<BR>

inloveonline, Otherman, Everyone deserves to be loved. THe problem could very well be that the both of you are afraid of the one on one kind of love that requires so much more effort. This way you have all of the fun and none of the responsibility. The bond is partially based on the distaste for the betrayed. <P>There are thousands of single people in your vicinity yet you chose someone that is unavailable and unable to give the full attention to you. Why do you settle for less? <P>Inlove, In many cases the betrayer claims that they are not having sex with their spouse. The opposite is the truth. Most cases of infidelity the betraying spouse is having more fufilling sex with their spouse. Using the OP as an ego booster.<P>The only way to test this is to completely withdraw and see what the betrayer does. I'm pretty sure he'll go back to his wife.<P>OM, complain about bashing but don't miss the messages. When you're blinded by love, truth is the most difficult thing to see.<BR> <BR>

Please everyone take notice, I am not inloveonline......and she is not me lol....<BR>I dont blame the om or ow, I blame the spouse which is my h. He is the one who made promises to me and a contract before God. I kept my end so why couldnt he keep his or atleast leave me. However people who are doing wrong make up lots of wonderful excuses inorder to make them and whoever they are with feel better. I have heard them all the only good thing my h did was not make up any excuses....he said it was stupidity and it was all him and he was the only thing wrong with us...but my mom is seeing a married man and he tells her how bad his wife is and I know better .....lies....all lie to get what they want .....