Hi eav,

In response to your posting on HLRomantic's thread that reads...


ms wondering...i wish you would read my thread and give some insight.

things that you say really hit home with me...like

Quote:
"seemed needy and unattractive" to me. That sounds so harsh to me now, I really hate that I ever felt that way, but it was my reality at the time. I remember telling him to "back off"




this is why i'm asking!

ps..sorry to mini-hijack here



eav, I'm not sure where to start reading...you can let me know here OR, email me at [email]the_wonderings@yahoo.com...you[/email] can either ask me specific ?'s there OR I'd be glad to call you(I have free nationwide long distance) or have you call me...if you are like me, I can talk and listen faster than I can read and type...whatever makes you the most comfortable, but I would be glad to help in any way that I can...

Mrs. Wondering

bump to make sure eav1967 sees this

good point..ther's alot to read.

how about if i pick a few posts that are important and let you know the page #'s so you can read when you have time?

thanks so much!!

eav...that'd be great, I'll offer my most humble opinions...trust me though, I'm not anywhere close to an expert...pretty sure that I don't want to be an expert on A's...I wish I had NO knowledge whatsoever on this topic, but hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20, huh?

Mrs. Wondering

i thought it would be better for you if i cut paste the important stuff and paste it here. i didn't wnat you to have to spend lots of time finding the things to read. I'll send it in "chunks" as i go through the pages

and thanks again for being willing to help me understand what his thoughts and feelings might be so i better understand why i need to do things differently.


[color:"yellow"]07/18/05 02:36 [/color]

My husband had an affair with a married woman about 3 years ago. It lasted 8 months.

When i found out, i called her mother (her and her husband and kids live with her) her and her husband. She denied it and said they were just friends. Her husband said she had many male friends and that her believed her because he loved her.

My husband and I reconciled for about 9 months. We were not using the concepts from the books recommended on this site and I had no ideas what needs I was to be trying to meet. During the 10th month, he started saying that he was not happy and not "In love" anymore. I bought the book surviving an affair and asked im to identify his needs-I then tried to rebuild his love bank but he would not allow me to get through. He said he did not want to work on our marriage because he wasn't sure he wanted to be married. He left after 8 months. I then found phone records to indicate that he had been in contact with the married woman since he first started saying how unhappy he was. (I should have known)

Since he left, (14 months ago) he indicated numerous times that there was a chance we could work things out but that his feeling for me were gone and that he was waiting to see if they returned. I tried to explain that we needed to create good feelings but he again would not allow me to attempt anything that would make deposits in his love bank. no activities together, little time together, no affection....but he told me how alone he was, how he had nobody to do things with or spend time with and that he was so unhappy and lonely.

for 2 years now, i have made many changes in how i interact with him and I have learned not to use love busters-nothing i have done matters!

During the past few months my husband has indicated that he wants a divorce or separation agreement because he wants to "move on with his life and get a house" Last week i got divorce papers-he made up grounds!he said he wanted to get me jump started to sign an agreement and thought this would do it but he withdrew them after I told him that i would counterclaim adultry. It appears this is his greatest fear! so I called his sister. (I have not contacted his family since he left except to send a letter about the positive changes i was making in myself in the hopes that we could reconcile) his sister told me that he has been seeing the married woman since he left. This really did surprise me because she has children and my husband has never wanted them and i can not believe he would ever want to take care of someone elses children.

I confronted my husband and he did not deny this. I told him that I was going to contact her husband. he said that the woman's husband had left her already. (I didn't believe him)

I called and spoke to her on Sat. I told her that I never had a chance to make changes in my marriage to met my husbands needs because she was meeting them for him. She agreed and "said" that he had told her I was not willing to forgive him or work on our marriage. She said that her husband had found out about the affair and had broken all of the windows in his truck with a baseball bat (now i believe he might know because this did happen about 10 months ago-my husband said it was vandals). She said she would step aside and allow me to have a chance with my husband because that is what she would want soeone to do for her and that she could tell that I really loved him and it was clear that I would try to make him happy. She said that her and her husband were considering reconciling anyway. She said that her children were her life and that she was considering reconciling becasue of how this has affected them. (Since i didn't believe her generous offer) I let it slide that I was considering calling her husband "werever" he lives now.

My husband is so angry!!! He says she called to tell him that it was over. that I had called her and that now here daughter told her husband that I called (I think he made this up again so I would think her husband already knows that I'm around and ready to fight to get my husband back)
According to him, she said that she does not want to risk losing her kids-she was afraid her husband would get custody if her husband filed for divorce and I supported his adultry claims. She told him that she was going to try to reconcile with him but even if they did not, she would not risk losing her children becasue of his "crazy wife who will stop at nothing to get him back"-I'm assuming with some doubts that my husband is reporting the truth as he he so angry at me and had decided that he hates me more than ever now.

So now I need some help!

Since I got the papers last Monday, we have argued almost daily because he is trying to get me to sign. (many love busters from him-none from me as I have learned better)
It seems that all he recalls is the way we interacted before he cheated. I was not meeting his needs and we were not communicating. He says he would never come back to me even without her in his life and that I made it worse because now he hates me because of what I did. He says that if I had wanted him back I would not have done this.

Of course i realize that he's angry because he's lost her (I hope it's true) but i don't know if there is any possibility that he will consider giving us a chance once he realizes that he other choice is gone. I'm afraid that becasue his love bank is empty-there is no hope. Although I have tried non-stop to make deposits, he has not allowed this as he repeatedly talks about the past instead of what has happened since i learned about the things I needed to do for him 2 years ago! I would not have called if there was any other way but I have tried everything else and finally realized there was no hope of him missing me or allowing me to try to rebuild his feelings with her doing this for him.

Can anyone give me any words of wisdom?

[color:"yellow"] 07/18/05 07:28 PM [/color]

I did read surviving an affair right after I my husband started saying he was unhappy and not sure he wanted to be married. he did identify his 5 needs-never told me any of that before, but refused to let me do anything to meet them. it turns out that she was meeting them for him.

when i found out, (had not yet read the book)i did demand to see all phone and cell phone records and would question him if the line was busy for long periods. After 6 or 7 months, he told me that if i kept mistrusting him, we could never work things out so i stopped checking. Later (of course) i discovered that as soon as I stopped checking-he called her.

so plan A is about ending the affair? I did a site search and did not find any info here. Is it in any of these books that I have: surviving an affair, avoiding love busters or his needs, her needs?

when my husband first left, he said he missed our dogs more than anything-they are the only kids we have, our house and our yard but not me (of course he didn't because he had her-i never thought so and tried SO dang hard!)

the agreement we have discussed means that I would buy him out of the house for very little and keep the dogs-great deal for me but i still haven't signed because he will buy a house and NEVER come home.

anyway this month he started saying this is not his home anymore and that he will have to find a way to live without the dogs but cries when i talk about them.

since none of his emotional needs have to do with the things he left behind, I'm afraid he has no needs that will bring him back

Today I again talked to him about meeting his needs and told him my intentions for showering him with so much love and attention, he will be happy. I have even taken golf lessons and taken up biking to try to spend time with him but I really failed to meet his needs for some time before he left. totally empty love bank and i'm scared

oh...i did get more attractive-lost over 70 pounds and got in shape so we could do things together...he said I look just like i did when we dated and I turned heads when i walked in the room. Then he said...too bad i'm not attracted to you......then he left me for a girl the size I was when he was cheating on me.


[color:"yellow"] by MelodyLane

07/18/05 07:43 PM [/color]

Quote:
thank you melodylane.

Can you tell me anything about plan A?

I am kinda scared to contact him though because i'm afraid he may leave her if he hasn't and send her right into my husbands arms.


------------------------------------------------------------

She already IS in your H's arms and has been for years. See, if she had wanted to divorce this guy and go with your H she would have done it long ago.

The reason this has gone on so long is because the affair has been kept a secret. The ONLY hope I see that you have is to expose to the OWH, your family, his family and any key friends. It may be entirely too late at this point, but it is worth a shot.

This affair cannot survive for long unless it is kept secret. Exposing it takes away the secrecy and ruins the fantasy. It forces her to make a choice and we have already seen that she won't leave her H for yours.

As I see, you have one long shot, and that is exposure and an effective Plan A. Plan A means doing your best to meet his needs and avoiding lovebusters. No fighting, begging, whining, pleading.

Read about Plan A in my signature link.

P.S. you should offer to be a witness for the OWH no matter what.


[color:"yellow"] by eav: [/color]
thank you for the plan A info!

if i understand it correctly, i did not use angy outbursts, disrespect, or demands to end his affair.

(although he does believe that I am trying to force him to come home so he sees it as a demand) In an e-mail today he wrote-even though it is over, you cannot MAKE me come home, i have free will and can choose not to do something that is not in my heart.

I responded, "i agree that I can't make you do anything. I can only hope. If you need me for anything, you know where I am."

realizing that the affair was caused because i was never home and when i was i did not meet his needs, I told him again today (as I have for so long) that I only wanted a chance to show him how much i love him. I told him that i only contacted her to ask her to give me a chance to meet his needs. to give us a chance to rebuild ourmarriage. I told him that i would shower him with so much love, attention, and affection and that I wanted to spend time golfing, biking, walking the dogs, going to football games, and being his best friend. I told him that I knew I would be a better partner because I was working hard not to make selfish demands, react with anger, and i was trying to understand his perspective and compromise. I said that I had forgiven the affair and that was what allowed me to be kind and respectful to him and his girlfriend about what I had found out because i realize this happened because i was not meeting his needs and she did.

(he though sees it as emanding that he come home, being disrespectful and rude by calling her and upsetting her, her mother and her kids, and angry because i might contact her husband and he said I am not accepting his views or compromising because i will not sign the agreement.)

from what I read, it appears that i did a good job doing this the way that i should. (Did I? but he percieves it differently. What will he think if I contact her husband as he has specifically asked me not to and used her kids as the reason?

any advice what should my next steps be and I have done this right?


[color:"yellow"]by eav: [/color]

my husband told me this week that I was making it worse for HIM!

today when he kept screaming at me i asked him to please speak to me in a kind voice because I couln't take much more anger-i'm not sleeping, i've lost 7 pounds since last firday when he told me that the papers were coming, and the doctors think i might have an ulcer.

he said, "your doing it all to yourself because you won't let me go and look what you're doing to me! I can't concentrate and might even lose my job! It would be all your fault."

and when i again asked him to please stop screaming-he said you shut the f*** up and listen to me. he called me names i've never heard him use before. he also kept saying i should be ashamed of myself for involving her kids-all i did was ask for the woman when her daughter answered the phone.
he then said that his family thinks i'm crazy and thinks he should get a restraining order against me. he sait that he left because he didn't love me and because everyone told him i was crazy. he said his sisters even offerred to help pay for an apartment for him to stay in to get away from me.

I called his sister-ALL LIES!

speaking of lies....his girlfriend was so offended that he lied to HER! that at least, gave me one of the only smiles I had all week.

until he started his affairs-my husband was always the kindest, most loving man i had ever known and the only time i ever heard his raise his voice, ever, was to call the dogs. and he rarely cussed. never did he call me, or anyone the names he called me today and this past week.

thanks for the support. does everyone think their situation is worse than everyone elses like I do?

[color:"yellow"]07/19/05 01:01 PM [/color]


this is not going well at all.

I called the other woman and left a message to let her know that my next step if she is not out of my husbands life for good, would be to hire a investigator and find her husband so that I can tell him what is going on and offer to support him if he tried to file for divorce on the ground or adultry or get custody of thier children. I said that I will do this now, 8 months from now, or 8 years from now if I ever find out she has contacted him. I told her that I did not want to make that contact so I am giving her a chance to make the best choice for herself and her children.

I asked her to move on with her life and allow me and my husband to move on with ours and I said I hope her life turns out well.

Of course...she called my husband and told him. He asked why i did this when she had already walked away from him. I told him that I could not trust that they were honest about this because she had told him about my call to her, he had told me she said I was crazy, and she told me to call her anytime but never returned my call. I simply did not believe them.

I then a phone call from her "husband" (i'm not sure it was really him becasue this guy was so passive-how could it be the same guy who broke all of my husbands truck windows with a baseball bat?) He said he already knew about them being together again and that it was over-they were only friends now and that my husband was dating other people.
I told him that they had been seeing each other again for almost 2 years and the I have a check for $200 that my husband gave to his wife (for what??) I also said that when I spoke to his wife 4 days agao she told me they were still together, she loved him, and that she would walk away for now but if he called her again in 8 months (that's what happened the last time) and he said that I was not making him happy, she would be there for him. (that's what made me decide to make the call)

he seemed to take it well (too well it seemed which is why I suspect that she may have had someone call and pretend to be him so that I don't think I still need to tell him anything)

but then my husband called and said that his girlfiend called and said her husband was saying he was going to kill him, (true? I don't know)

I told him that I love him. I told him that I did not want or intend for anything to happen to him. It was time that the truth come out and the affair ends for good and I'm sorry the truth is causing this much pain for everyone. I told him he was welcome to come here if he was afraid. He said that her husband knows our address (of course-he called her from here for a year!) I then said that he could always come home and work on his marriage-that would show his intention to stay away for her.(he didn't say anything)


I told him that we would never have a chance to reconcile unless the affair ended for good and there was no chance that they could contact each other again. He said that I'm acting crazy and irrational but i told him that i asked others if I should do this and they said I had to-it was the only chance I had.

I told him that his anger was normal and that I would feel the same way. I said that I hope he will realize that
I made these shoices out of love.

I assurred him that if he should ever decide that he wants to work on our marriage-i would be his best friend and show him daily with attention and time how very much I love him. I told him that I believed his love for me could be rebuilt if he let me meet his needs as he has always met mine.

he said that I should have just let it go-the woman had told him it was over-and that if I had not called her today or spoken to her husband, maybe in time there would have been a chance but not now.....he said I've done too much damage especially by bringing up the information that I did not share but regret even mentioning.

Should I just accept that too much damage has been done and let him go? Have we destroyed each other and there is no way to mend our marraige?

Did I use love busters and make it even worse????? (he says I threatened him and am trying to force him to accept what I want-for him to give our marriage a chance.)


[color:"red"]summary of coments: Everyone thinks it WAS NOT really her husband that i spoke to and that i need to find a way to contact him and expose. [/color]


[color:"red"]he seems to be relieved that the arguing is stopping as we are communicating about the agreement by e-mails. he even sent me a funny comment-I haven't gotten one of those from him in so long.....it felt so good.
[/color]

maybe once he buys a house, has his sense of "freedom" so we would not have any reason to argue, and makes occasional contacts with me to make house repairs and pick up/drop off dogs-he will allow me the opportunity to start to rebuild his love bank


[color:"yellow"] eav1967] 07/22/05 09:01 AM [/color]
i re-read about plan A: it seems to me that thishas occurred. 1st- her husband found out this i know becasue of the smashed windows. 2nd- like me, he must not have been able to keep them from seeing each other 3rd-i first read surviving an affair before my husband left. he identified his emotional needs but would not accept ANY attempts on my part to meet them (i now know he was with her again and she WAS meeting them-he didn't need me!)but i did nit avoid angry outburst-could not understand nor deal with his not working on our marriage but instead "waiting to see if his feelings came back" 3rd after he left i avoided love busters-and again repeatedly offerred to meet his emotional needs but now realize she was meeting them so he would not let me.

so fast foreward to now-husband possibly knows something from my phone call involving caller ID and knows it all "IF" by some miracle it was him that called.

my husband and OW say it is over...but they said that before

so...i'm doing the property settlement agreement and avoiding love busters-meeting the only emotional need I can at this point-being open and honest

and i sent him a "counter offer for an agreement" asking him to give us the remaining 9 months of our marriage to try to build a new frindship. I talked about how i have made progress avoiding love busters (i did not use any of the terms but instead explained what i am doing differently)

I also included how i wouldmeet his emotional needs-again no terms just explainations and lots of examples.
his needs are:
1. openness and honesty (i know..from a liar and a cheat)
2. recreational companionship
3. affection/admiration
4. sexual fullfillment
5. attractiveness

sadly for me, these needs do not involve anything that could not (and are not) be met by anyone without needing to return home to have them met (again such a very long shot)

I opened the letter telling him that i have forgiven the past and learned from the mistakes we both made. (me not meeting his needs-him not communicating them to me)

in my offer-i included lots of talk about sharing our feelings and thoughts both good and bad and being receptive and respectful of each other even if we say something the other didn't want to hear. i talk about how my recent diagnosis (2 months ago) of ADHD led to the medication that seems now to be at a theraputic level and is helping me to be less impulsive so that i can be a better listener without interrupting and take time to consider his views before i respond......what a big change from all the years he knew me!!!!! other people are even noticing!!

i used very descriptive examples of the recreational activintes we could do together (things we did not do for years as i was clinically depressed when his affair started)
ex: I want to be the one riding a bike beside you and look over to see you laughing and smiling. I wuld love to have you teach me how to golf. Although you helped me learn how to tee-off we never took the next step. I think we would have a blast laughing at my efforts but i realy want to learn. I've walked one dog at a time since no way could i handle two 100 pound dogs myself (i only weigh 115 since losing about 82 pounds since this started) and i have imagined how much fun we would have walking them together and trying to keep up with them!

I ended the letter asking him to be open to my offer and recieve it with kindness-considering that is was offered with love
at the end of the letter, i asked him to take a few days to consider but to send me a simple e-mail so that i knew he read it.

i got a response saying:
i read it. thanks for the offer but i'm moving on alone

What did I hope to gain?
I never expected him to accept (i hop0ed but did not expect especially after last week)
I just wanted a chance to share my feelings, the changes i have made, and how things could be if we were together again. If i had tried to tell him this...he would never have listened, we would have argued, and i would have ended up love busting and begging. However, this way......he heard it all and it will always be in the back of his mind with no bad feelings attached

something great that came from this....all of our e-mail communications about our agreement that occurred after this were more positive on his part....

and several times he used words from my letter and he wrote them in all capitals: please be OPEN to COMPROMISING, please CONSIDER my feelings, please ACCEPT my offer

I did all of these things! I bet this surprised him so much-especially as this agreement is the hardest thing emotionally i've ever done.

he noticed my efforts and sent a thank you for being open minded and willing to compromise. he also send a funny comment (that was a huge thing that i have missed so much)

What more could I have hoped for from my letter!!!

Our agreement has left the door open for further contact (habout 30 house repairs and dog visitation) so that i can continue to show him that i can avoid love busters ( this medication is helping so much-even he will have to notice)and maybe I'll get a chance to make some deposits in his love bank

this is all i can think of to do......

now, the problem......if i send her husband a letter now....all of this is lost

do i risk that he knows??
do i need to do it anyway??
Plan A or B(i don't really know what i shouldbe doing!!)

i so much need some help!

[color:"yellow"] by eav [/color]

you all are not even going to believe this!!!!

my husband is in to his shark of a lawyer for big bucks because i've done everything i can to stall......and fight this agreement so she/he did everything to speed it up and make it happen (all pointless as it acomplished nothing)

That and my recent changes in how i am interact with my husband has prompted him to send me an e-mail that has me about to fall off my chair!



he e-mailed me that he is so surprised at my willingness to work with him considering that i do not want this agreement. He said that with the recent interactions he has had with me in mind, part of him is considering just believing that my lawyer looked out for both of our legal interests and that i care enough to look out for his interestsas well as my own. He said he may just have faith in me and let us work out the remaining details together and sign without a lawyer.

OH MY GODDNESS!!!! this is a man who threatened just last and this week to have me arrested if i came to his house and/or have harrassment charges filed against me if i call him.

[color:"yellow"]by eav [/color]


my family and friends are no longer supporting my desire to work things out with my husband. they don't want to hear about it so i'm just telling them i'm okay.this is because of the discovery that he was again the woman he had cheated on me with when i forgave him before and the way he treated me the past two weeks.

they are especailly offended and unforgiving because when i told him i would counterclaim any divorce filings he made with claims of desertion and adultry. he left me two messages saying "I've got a shot gun here. I'm going to stick it in my mouth and blow my head off just like your dad did"

because of these messages, i called his sister. i was so afraid for him. that was when she told me about the other woman. I then called the other woman...my purpose ws to ask her if he had a gun (he does) and if she would getit out of the house. The rest of the discussion we had was not planned...it just happened.

the way he treated me after....saying i should never have called anybody. he said he was just "grandstanding" so that i did not claim adultry and ruin his life by dragging him and his family and friends to court.he did not care that i did these things out of concern for him.

he threatened to have me arrested and to get a restraining order against me. he called and screamed at me for over anhour about how i was ruining his life, how much he hated me, and how i wouldn't let him move on...when i cried he told me to"pull myself together. shut the fu** up, and listen when he talked to me. " i hung up but he kept calling. i ended up curled up in a ball sobbing and covering my ears so i couldn'thear the phone ringing.

he has always been the kindest, calmest, most caring man i ever knew.

no-one who loves me believes that man will ever be back and they believe i am better off without him forever




there's alot at the beginningof my thread-the middles theres some that;'s important-the end well now there's some things.

this was the beginning

Hey Eav, what exactly did you want insight about? I am confused. I thought you had a well defined plan of attack going forward and now you are seeking more insight. About what? Am I wrong about this? Has something changed since we last hashed this out?

[color:"red"] by: melodylane 09:16 PM



--------------------
[color:"yellow"] by eav1967 [/color]

this is EXACTLY how i feel! I'm afraid this is how detached he feels and i don't think we would survive another episode like the last two weeks.

he told me...i don't consider you my wife anymore. he also said there were no feelings left to bring him home to me...but that this isn't even his home anymore. I agree that even if this affair is/was over, he would still want out:(he has said this also and i believe him

You've got it all right except that since my husband left 14 months ago (except for the past 2 weeks)I have done everthing that he has asked of me and more.(except i would not sign the separation agreement he wanted) the problem is....he keeps talking about the past as if it is still happening and he acts as though i have not changed at all! he says it's too little too late. he says all i do is tell him he is worthless and critisize him. i have NEVER done that!!

I have told him that i forgive him (this upset him even more but now i know it is because he was still cheating)
I have repeatedly told him how i accept blame for the mistakes i have made and that i understand his anger towards what happpened. it wasn't anyone's fault...it just happened. i was not meeting his needs (i was asleep!)so i really do understand how he detached so he wouldn't get hurt anymore and that is why this all happened.

i have changed! i am no longer depressed (except from the fact tha he has left-not the same as before-this is what anyone would feel) i am more alive than i have been in years and i know we have both lost so much time and missed out on so many things due to my depression. it destroyed my father's life-i don't want it to destroy mine and the guy i loves too. I am fighting with all i have!

i have made a committtment to do things differently. i have changed how i communicate with him. two months ago i got on medication for ADHD so that i am less impulsive and can be a better listener and be more patient. I was also diagnosed with social anxiety due to the social impact of ADHD behaviors and i'm on medication to help with that. I have also realized and discussed with my husband that the things that we have both learned from this experience have helped us to grow-he has learned how to communicate his feelings and needs. I have learned how to be open, accept ideas without judgement, and respond effectively instead of reacting with anger and demands. I now also understand how important it is to him for me to be his best friend and companion and i am so willing and eager to have that opportunity.

i really love him in a different way. I guess i really appreciate what i had and want so much to have the chance to have even more with him.

I guess i thought that by giving him this agreement, he would stop being so angry at me. and that with still having some contact with him when he comes to make house repairs(there are 30 on the list) and to pick up the dogs, i would have a chance to rebuild some of his feelings towards me. and that maybe...just maybe...he would care about me again. i've got 9 months left!

i'm so fearful that if i send this letter, all will be lost.

i never thought, after the past two weeks, that we would be where we are right now. even though i don't want this agreement, since last weds as we have e-mailed and talked on the phone, we have joked about the dogs and teased and i've even gotten away with some flirting. (he agreed to continue to be my emergency contact so i told him thanks and said "just for the record, I DO NOT want my body donated to science no matter how amazing it is")

i have missed this so much! this could be the beginning but if i send that letter...it could be the end...i am trying so hard not to use love busters and i am trying to met his first emotional need-openness and honesty. i sent him a letter telling him that this was how i was going to interact with him-that i have changed but he has not given me the chance to show him as we have had little contact and them none for almost the past 3 months. (the letter is here in another post-from last week- but i did not get good responses to it)

in his e-mails,when we discuss the agreement he will say things like-please be OPEN to my suggestion...and i want to be HONEST and i hope you will accept my thoughts (he even uses the capital letters!!)

i'm just so glad to have SOMEONE see what i do

bless you melody!!!i wish i could hug you!!!

everyone here respects your opinion so much! this means alot to me!

...you've shocked me and i've only been here a few weeks.i can imagine what others are thinking!!

now...i could use some help with a "killer plan A":)

[color:"yellow"]MelodyLane 07/30/05 12:01 [/color]

[color:"red"] Here's something I would recommend, try doing the 180 degree list for the next few months. Stop any talk of relationship whatsoever and give him the impression that you are not sitting around "waiting" for Prince Charming. I will try and find the list. But this might make the difference. Time to try something new!
[/color]

[color:"yellow"] by eav[/color]

I think that i have used many [color:"red"]plan A strategies since my husband left.

things i did:
-was pleasant and joked with him on the phone

-sent postive, caring e-mails (also jokes about the dogs)

-made it clear that i forgive him

-let him know how things could be if we tried again

-showed him a loving, caring place he could return to

-took great care of the yard, dogs, and house...again showing him something he would want to return to

-small but meaningful gifts-his favorite tree's for his new apartment, a car for his collection that he's wanted since we started dating (that was really hard to find), a DVD of our favorite movie that was the first in our VHS collection (he's now got anew DVD player), a hat from his favorite football team when they went to the playoffs, and wrapped up in the box with his christmas tree (our first christmas apart in 18 years) i gave him 3 photo displays to hang-one for each of our dogs and the one that goes oin the middle had both dogs in each picture-it took over a month to get those pictures taken-they were all new ones!

-two thoughtful but short letters

-sharing the dogs with him-whenever he wanted them

-making him his favorite "fresh from the garden" food to take home with him

-changing and improving ME-these are really recent changes: adhd medication, anti-anxiety medication, improved communication skills, learning how to avoid love busters (that's been the hardest thing for me so far)
[/color]

[color:"yellow"]I've also done these 180's
-took golf lessons (he's always wanted me to learn)
-took up biking (he rides all the time)
-rarely called unless the dogs needed something or it involved decisions we had to make together
-learned how to pay bills and take care of the house to show him i could nake it without him.
-didn't answer the phone-or return his calls right away but i'll be honest, i did this very few times

hmmm....looking back now i can see i didn't do much in this area
[/color]

[color:"pink"]ALMOST 15 MONTHS OF THIS BUT NONE OF IT SEEMED TO MATTER!!

the biggest reason that plan A/180's didn't seem to help I think were:

-the forgiving...i didn't know he was still seeing the other woman so everytime i told him i forgave him. that i knew he was a good person and he never ment to hurt me, that i knew we could get throught this together and that i would anything i could to support him...well his guilt and shame made him angry and made him pull further away

-lots of relationship talk or hints

-love busters when he didn't want to talk about the relationship

-his family didn't know all of the truth and were fully supporting "whatever he needed to be happy"

-he had convinced everyone that i was the "bad guy" and that i refused to try to change or work on our marriage

-he still "sees only the past" and "can't imagine a future that is any differernt"

-needed more 180's?

**he was still so involved with the other woman that my efforts weren't getting through to him (still could be i'll admit)


so after 3 months of almost no contact-i'm trying again in the hopes the affair may have ended inan attempt to build more attachment

any new ideas for either or things that i've done that i should try again?
[/color]


[color:"yellow"] by eav[/color]
such a little thing but it ment so much to me:

i signed the truck title over to my husband in exchange he signed that the car and old truck would be mine. Not the whole property settlemtn agreement-just that one page.

before i left, i sent him an e-card. it had a huge dog with tiny little paws and a man saying to a woman ...i don't know how it happened, he had the smallest paws out of all the dogs in the litter!!

(just like our HUGE dogs.)

keeping in mind that this whole truck buying experience has been very bad-loan problems, title problems, needing new liscence...etc..

i wrote a note in the card:

hey guy,
sometimes things that should be small, turn into a really big deal!! i hope everything goes okay today!
see you at 10:00

i got there on time!! big improvement for me-one of the annoying habits he hates-my lateness

he called three times when i was on my way to make sure i understood his directions and to thank me for driving all that way for him.

I said "thank you for caring enough to check on me but your direction sare great. they always are. i really don't mind the drive. I know this is important to you."

when i got there....as soon as i saw him i just wanted to throw my arms around him and hug him...i have missed him so much!! but i didn't (good or bad?)

his first words "you look good. Have you lost more weight?" I said "thank you, i have lost a few more pounds."
and then he said "the car looks really nice." i said " i polished and waxed it this weekend."

he thanked me for coming again.

so...we went in and signed the papers together. the salesman said "we're finidhed with everythingthat i would need your wife's signature on...if she'd like to go."

my husband said to me "I'd like it if you stayed-i want to show you the truck."

so i happily stayed!!

after he was finished, he showed me the truck-pointing out, as usual, every little scratch (he takes great care of his vehicles) and showing me all the interesting gadgets.

he then said that i could follow him until i knew where i was so that i could find my way back home.

he said "I know this is really hard for you. I appreciate this very much" Darn it...my eyes filled with tears
he gave me a hug...patted me on the back as he hugged me -not a great hug at all but i was still happy to get it!

as we drove, he called me three times to talk about the truck-how it drives, getting used to shifting gears again (laughing when he missed a gear), trying to get the CD player on. We are car crazies and have always enjoyed these things together. Each time he told me how much it means to him that i drove all the way up there and he reminded me each time to call when i got home to tell him i was safe.

once when he thanked me i said "I'm glad that I got to see you."

he said "if i don't get a chance to talk to you in the next day or so...i'll call this weekend before i bring the little guy (our dog) back"

then...much to my surprise...he called again about a half an hour later...just to say thank you. Oh and he also said "the card this morning was great-which dog were you referring to?" I said "both of them!" and we shared a laugh!

i caled when i got in to tell him i was safe...he said thanks for remembering to call (i often forgot to call to tell him i had made a long drive safe before-another annoying habit of mine) he said..."i'll call you later thanks for everything" I said...i'm just happy that it all worked out for you."

well...later may be days

but it was so good to see him...to touch him, even just a little hug.

love bank deposits?? i hope so!!

thanks for letting me share:)

[color:"yellow"]by eav 08/04/05 09:09 AM [/color]

he called this morning!!

he called at 7:30 and wondered if i was up (when i was depressed i slept ALL the time and he's a morning person)

he wanted to tell me about our dogs hunting adventure this morning. the little guy (not really little but that's what we call him)chaseda groundhog and pulled it right out of its hole!

my husband loves this! he calls our dogs "the great hunters" but the little guy has only gotten mice or birds so far (i know-very gross and very sad but i think it's a guy thing)so this was his first "big game adventure"

i'm so thrilled that I was the person he choose to call and talk about this with!! we spoke for about 15 minutes. He was so excited! - he had me laughing along with him!

this is how we were interacting (e-mails, phone calls, positive visits) right after he first said that maybe we could work things out in November and it lasted for about 3 months then drifted away...i'm now pretty sure from talking to his sister, that this was during a time when he and the other woman had broken up...but then they got back together.

i hope and pray that the affair has ended and i my plan A efforts are finally getting a chance to rebuild some feelings of attachment!!

but...
before the call ended, he said that he hadn't gotten a chance to read over the property settlement agreement draft with all of the worries about the truck and that he would look over it in the next few days.

this ruined my good feelings (although i didn't show it-i just said "okay") i just want the agreement to go away...it still feels to me like this is too much closure and it is a sign that he is moving on without me. It' hard to be positive about a possible chance with this agreement happening at the same time.

I'm trying to make up-he's trying to break up
i don't want this agreement-i'm just afraid that not doing it will drive him further away! but is doing the agreement going to do that anyway??

i read a post that mentioned an agreement and advice from pepper that helped but i haven't found it yet-let me know if anyone knows where it is!

i need some help to know if i'm headed in the right direction and how this agreement fits in the picture.



[color:"yellow"] by eav [/color]
something that i've realized

if my husband doesn't come home and ends up with her-they will both have a BIG awakening!!

HE does not make enough money for her to stay home all day while he pays for them both and her kids. Her kids are all over 9 so she could be working! and my husband gave up a big house with a half acre yard, inground pool, hot tub, and sports car...no way is hegoing to be able to have these things on his salary alone-i make more than he does!

granted-money does not buy happiness or he and i would be very happy.

but he LIKED living this way and not having the responsibilities of raising children-he DOES NOT like children-never wanted them and this woman told me when they first got together "I could never be in a relationship with your husband-my kids are my life and he doesn't like children"

If he loves her enough to give up everything-and raise her children-i guess he really does love her.

but i got news for everyone-i'm gonna laugh my a$$ off if HE ends up living with her mother so she can keep staying home all day!!

[color:"yellow"] all of these next ones were from august 8th
[/color]


my husband has had the draft of our agreement for almost a week.

I took the agreement drafted by his lawyer and rewrote it with him input. We have discussed each item befor i included it.

so he just sent the agreement back with some areas highlighted and he sent along an e-mail that was full of sarcastic comments and arguments about what we had already decided. he kept saying but of course what he wants does not matter at all.

I don't even want this darn agreement-what I want does not matter at all!! he just keeps saying he wants to move on and without the agreement he can't.

he told me last week that he had read over it and it looked fine-he just had a few questions. NOW THIS??

we discussed the dog situation several times-he does not want them in the agreement and tried convincing me with crying that "they are our children and they are not property. i don't want some judge or lawyer reading what we decide to do with them." but i didn't buy his boo-hoo act for one minute. I think his plan is to sign the papers and take one of the dogs and not bring him back. i told him each time we talked that it was important to me that it be included. and now he says he can't believe i included them when he asked me not to!

and...he sked me if i would be willing to leave him on my medical insurance in exchange for the cell phone he pays for that i use (i still pay $30 more per month for his insurance but did not ask for it)I have great insurance and vision-he needs new glasses-so i figured sure why not-no big deal

but i had told him that in case i ended up leaving my job to move near my family-i wanted to include that if i became unemployed, he would get us both insurance at his job and cover me as his wife until an absolute divorce and i would pay my own cost. He just said in his e-mail-he would really rather i get private coverage.

then he complained that the agreement contained things that he didn't think were important like statements about alimony and all of the legal statement that his lawyer included-i didn;t understand them biut my lawyer told me they are standard and need to be includedfor the document to become the divorce settlement. i just copied them fromhis document.

he says i am making this into such a big deal when all he wants to sign is a statement about the vehiles and the house.

what the he!! is going on here???

maybe i should just write a statement about the house, vehicles and dogs. I'll leave out the stuff he's complaining about and he will not be able to get his nice quicky divorce in 9 months!!!

so now that might be my plan!!!!

I am livid and i am so dissapointed in him again.

-----
so now he sends an apology for being such an "a$$"

he says that i really hurt his feelings on Sat when i told him i wanted to go to the beach with a friend for the weekend and asked himif he could keep the dog

no....not jealousy

he was hurt because i said the neighbor would watch the other dog instead ofasking him to do it!

he said also that the more he thought about the agreement, the more he realizes what he is giving up financialy just to be able to move on with his life.

and he closed with...i'm sorry i keep hurting you and F-ing up your life. that's why i just want this to be over and i want to move on. i do care that i'm hurting you but you'll never believe it. i feel such guilt and shame for what i did to you but you will never understand that. to you i will always be just a lying, cheating ******.

i didn't respond.

in fact, i'm not sure that i'm going to talk tohim again. at least for awhile-maybe for good. i don't know. i can't think right now.

i know all we will do is hurt each other more.
----------
he just sent another e-mail
-------

by MelodyLane

hmmmm, do not respond yet!! Let us discuss! I am thinking..

First off, i am telling you that he DOES NOT "just want to be done." Do you realize that?

--------------------
by eav
oh melody thank goddness you're here!!

no i don't know that he doesn't want this to be just done!

i have no idea what is going on here!!

i just know that this is isanity
------

by MelodyLane

if he were DONE, he would not care about any of this, he would sign and move on. He is saying that he feels very guilty and ashamed and we need to diffuse that. I think his guilt is an obstacle.

working on a response.....

--------------------

I think he is trying to bait you into a fight because he feels guilty. If you respond with anger, then he can justify his actions. I think he really does not want this agreement and is confused now that you are giving him what he wants. But if you respond with anger, it will take his confusion away.


By responding in a nice, calm manner, you will defuse his anger and allow him to feel the full force of his guilt.

--------------------
my response (with melody's help)


08/08/05 09:36 PM

sorry i'm getting back to you so late. i saw your messages when i got home tonight and did not want to wait until morning to respond becuase you sounded upset.


I am sorry I hurt your feelings by not asking you to watch the big guy. When you said "what about the big dog?" I thought you were simply asking what I would do with him-not that you were offering to watch him. Until I read your e-mail-I had no idea that I had not understood what you were saying. I did not say "no"-I didn't understand that you were making an offer. I said" Oh! the neighbors said they would watch him."

I didn't even want to ask you to keep the little guy because I don't think it's fair for me to inconvenience you so that I can go somewhere for the weekend. I only asked because you already had him and we had not yet made plans for when you were going to drop him off. Of course, the dogs would be happier with you, and I know that you would enjoy having both of them but I didn't even think to ask you to drive all this way to pick the big guy up. I try not to ask you for things. In the future I will keep in mind that you would be happy to have the dogs anytime.


I was very surprised by your e-mail that came with the agreement draft. I thought I had done things the way we had discussed and you had said last week that you had read it over and it was fine, you just had a few questions. I'm sorry that you were disappointed with it. I'm sure we can work together to find a compromise.

I could never view you as a lying, cheating ******. Yes, I was very hurt by your actions, but I have told you that I understand the reasons why this happened and the part that I played in the situation and I have forgiven you. I believe that you have been just as hurt as I have. I do not believe you have forgiven me.

(in his e-mail he said things are really going bad for him right now and all he seems to be is an a$$ to everyone-not just me)

I'm sorry that things are rough for you right now and I don't want to do anything to make this harder for you.

Take care
Night

[color:"yellow"]Re: milkshake 08/09/05 11:05 AM [/color]
Oh, by the way, I actually think it is a good sign that your husband hasn't reponded to your email.

Let's say, your WH is SO sure about the separation agreement and the reason he was upset was he truly felt that it was not a fair agreement - then reading your email basically saying that you can work things out, should give him a peace of mind and he should reply, b/c he wants to "get it over with it" soon as possible.

Instead, he is not replying yet, which means he is thinking. Being indecisive. Having a doubt. Whatever that is, that is not a bad thing.

Don't think too much about his reply and keep yourself busy!

[color:"yellow"]08/09/05 12:27 PM by eav [/color]

still no reply

but i do see that he called my cell phone lst night before i sent the e-mail.

he sent 3 e-mails and made one phone call last night just becase i didn't respond when he wanted me to.

hmmmm...maybe there is something to not being available whever they want you...problem is...he hardly ever wants me and when he does it's cause he's mad

this is the middle...not much left

Oh eav, I am truly sorry about what you are going through. I would love to offer you advice, but I honestly am not qualified to do that. I am fearful that anything that I offered would actually be detrimental to you and your situation.

I haven't read all of Melody's advice to you, but I can be positive that she is so much wiser than I, listen to she and the rest of the vets that are advising you.

My H and I never got to the point that you have, so I really have no idea about telling you how to proceed. I feel that it would be extremely irresponsible of me to tell you otherwise. I would be wandering around in a territory where I have no expertise. I will keep reading your posts from now on and offer any support that I can.

I can promise you this, I will add you to my prayer list. I will ask God to allow you to see yourself as He sees you and to give you whatever He knows that you need. My heart truly breaks for you and I wish you all the best.

Mrs. Wondering

08/10/05 07:54 PM

[color:"red"] he is still seeing her [/color].

i got my husband's password to his cell phone today. I checked his calls since i spoke to the other woamn on july 16 and then "exposed" to her husband on July 19 On the 19 he said he was no longer seeing the other woman-that she wanted nothing more to do with him. The bill only goes to august 8th and there are 2 calls on the 19 in the evening and there is a call on the 24th and then on the 31st-just as he is leaving my house when he came to get the dog. He must have called to let her know he didn't see me or spend any time with me.

worse than that-he has an unlisted number (it's local for him to call her which i'm sure is why there are only a few calls from his cell phone-the rest are all from his home.
this is the worst thing i've had to deal with since he left...
i found a number on his cell phone over and over. calls were for 1 minute-i called it-a wonam's voice i recognized on the machine said "sorry WE can't take your call-leave US a message."
just to be sure of what i thought-i paid to trace the unlisted number...it's my husbands house.

i've been throwing up and crying since i heard the message.


i went through all of his bills since he left and can clearly see when they were't seeing each other becasue that is when MY NUMBER shows up all the time and hers is not on the bills at all.

i just wish i could die and all of this would stop.

[color:"yellow"] MelodyLane 08/10/05 09:00 PM
[/color]

Eav, I guess this explains why your H and the OW were so freaked out when you called her house, huh? You were interfering in their affair. And I suspect that exposure will have a huge effect because if she hasn't left her H after this long, she has no intention of ever leaving him.


[color:"yellow"]08/10/05 09:59 PM by eav [/color]
melody i just read your question.

if i sign the agreement and buy him out of the house-he will have the money to buy a place and she may move in...

this is why i've been stalling and considering not signing even though he's willing to let me buy him out for less than HALF of what it should cost me.

he's pretty mad since he found out all he can affors is a crappy townhouse at about $80,000.

but...would it be a good or bad thing to give him the opportunity for her AND HER KIDS to move in with him. maybe she can see that he ain't cut out to be a daddy and has no interest in it. and he will see that he isn't number one when her kids are around and that money is tight when you have kids to support. Oh yeah...i doubt that they will enjoy both being home all day (unless she got a job which i doubt) they will get sick ofeach other pretty fast and i don't think they will be biking and golfing all day-of course they could take the kids along!
that is a joke because my husband isn't even a good uncle or godfather. he really doesn't like kids.

but maybe i'm wrong. i have considered that he is pretty unhappy living in the place he's in right now and they can't be together-no room for the kids.

but if they really wanted to be together-he would just rent a bigger place-what's stopping him?

[color:"yellow"] 08/11/05 08:30 AM by eav [/color]

yes it was her voice on his machine-i do wonder if she left her husband for awhile and stayed with him or if it is just their "love nest" he's the kind of guy that would have no problem with her putting his voice on the machine

actually-she comes across as very assertive-hey i used to be that way before he cheated on me and i became a whiny, begging, what can i do to make you happy kinda girl.

i guess that's what he likes

when i first saw his place-it was november. i drove by it.

when i drove by it last month-it was totally different-flowered flag, door mat, wreath and flowers planted. i know MY HUSBAND didn't so that. bt hey the girl doesn' have her "own" home to decorate-she lives with her mother so they are playing house.

i don't think she's living there. i have called there late at night and as early as 7:30 and he almost always answers-in fact about a month ago-i called at 4:30 am after a very bad dream. he answered the phone and talked to me-he was okay-not happy to be woke up but not like she was there in bed with him.

i also don't think she would leave her kids at her mothers and move out. that doesn't make sense. she says her kids are her life.sleepovers maybe.

i've considered that maybe her husband did move out and when he has the kids, she stays with him. but i don't know. i do know that he knows about them from the smashed windows. he may not know they are still together but he knows something.

there was a night that he drove to see his family and go to a football game-there are calls all that evening and all the next day starting at 6:30 am from HIS CELL PHONE to HIS HOUSE-she must have at least spent the night.

i am going to drive up there -in the evening-just to see if her car is parked outside of his house. maybe she is practically living there but pops in at her mom's during the day.
i don't know

but...in november-when he told me that maybe we could work things out-jan 13th there are no calls. this was the time that he was calling me almost daily and coming to the house again every other week and spending a few hours with me.

he left last april-there are plenty of calls inapril and early may. there are no calls from late may to june and that he when he was here all the time crying that he made a mistake but didn't know how to fix things so he could come home. then in july the calls start again and that's when he first sent be seperation papers (i still haven't signed)

on christmas eve and christmas day-he was visiting his family. his cell phone records show that every HOUR-for both days he called to check his voice mail and then his answering machine at home-to see if she called of course. there were no calls because i'm sure he would have called her back. Christmas day we talked for almost an hour.

[color:"yellow"]08/11/05 response to dorry by eav [/color]

maybe this is very common-they feel that by shutting you out of thier lives-moving on without you-they can run away from the guilt.

i have to say though that my husband sounds like a man who has made up his mind.


so this may not have been the greatest idea but (i hope melody doesn't yell)


i sent my husband a response saying that his lack of feelings towards me is due to the fact that he is still involved with the other woman. (didn't say how i knew and he didn't ask) I said that as long as he has contact with her, he cannot recall his real feelings about me and the relationship and that there would not be a chance for any new feelings to be built. i said that as he requested i would limit my contacts with him to things regarding the dogs or our agreement.

this was his response.

[color:"red"]You know, it doesn’t really matter if I’ve talked to her or have seen her. The relationship I had with her IS NOT the same that it was, since you threatened to help her husband try to get custody of her kids-he doesn't want custody but she does not want you causing problems for her chilren. So, I have NO future with her regardless of what you know or what you think. It has NOTHING to do and has not had anything to do with her. You can believe that or not, but it is not going to change the future and it most definitely will not change what is happening with us.

[/color]

then just a few minutes ago, he sent a message about picking up the dog and he included a joke about the dog.

i don't get it.

i guess that the fact that he is still in contact with her is better than believing that he isn't and still wants nothing to do with me right?

i mean maybe there is a chance then that if contact would end that he would be able to view our relationship and his feelings for me more clearly.

but if he really was done with her and still felt nothing for me-wouldn't that be worse?

Is this making sense to anyone?


[color:"red"]Exposure and plan B:
i am very scared. i'm afraid that he will be angry when i send the letter and i'm afraid that having no contact with him will take away the time i have left with a little contact before he divorces me.(i guess this fear is mormal?)

can someone explain to me what is expected from plan B i guess this is what i'm expected to do after i expose to her husband? [/color]




[color:"yellow"] by melodylane[/color]

Your M has no chance while he is the A. Exposure is the next step.

you have one last shot here and that is EXPOSURE. She is surely still with her husband or your "threat" would hold no water. Why would she care? But...she does care, very much. Your only hope is to bust up this affair. He will never have feelings for you as long as the affair is on. And telling him this IS FUTILE! Stop having relationship talks with him, Eav.

[color:"yellow"] response by improving [/color]

I am a FWW and my A was much shorter than your H's. Re-writing marital history is one of the ways you protect yourself in the fog from the horrible truth of what you are doing. I did do some re-writing even though my A was short. My H (FWH) also did this, but to a larger degree than I did. So, whatever he may say about your relationship take with a grain of salt. I know it hurts, but this is an alien, not your H.

Now, pull yourself together and fight for your M. Your M has no chance if he is in the A. You need to expose. This may be your last chance. Think everything through before you do it. Stop reacting emotionally with him. Come here if you need to.

[color:"yellow"] by shattered dreams [/color]



eav

Here's a look at what you have to face to survive this A.

* Your H is totally in the fog. He's not functioning at a level you know how to deal with. He's lost in a fantasy, or the "fog" as it's called here. You are expecting him to react and respond to you in ways that he is simply incapable of right now. He's not going to do that. Period.

* In this foggy state he'll say anything. He'll be mean, hostile, indifferent, and totally uncaring about your feelings. He will be abrasive and abusive, hoping to get you to engage in hostile fights with him, just to make YOU look bad, which helps him justify the Affair. He has "moved on in life" in his mind, and you are simply not important to him right now. Period.

* Occasionally he'll say something about "we should" do this or that, referring to being with you in the future, but do not put any stake into anything he says right now. Consider him "temporarily insane", which he is, under the influence of the addiction of the Affair. Period.

* Nothing you say to him will make any difference at all. Nothing. You can cry, cajole, beg, plead, get on your knees, be polite, funny, coy, flirtatious, whatever.....he can't hear you now. You may as well throw cotton balls at a crocodile, because that's how indifferent he is to your words right now. Period.

* He will do ANYTHING to sustain the A. ANYTHING. Don't be surprised by anything he does, because he's capable of it while in this A. Period.

* He "knows" you. He knows you intimately. He knows what will set you off. He knows how to trip your triggers. He will do so as long as you allow it. Why would he do such a thing? To keep you hysterical and off-balance, paralyzed, so you don't know what to do, therefore, you do NOTHING, and he gets to carry on as long as he likes. Period.

So, what are you going to do about it?

Purchase and Read "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Willard Harley. Learn and understand about the dynamics of an affair. Learn how your marriage might have become vulnerable. Learn how you might have Annoying Habits that lessened his connection for you. Learn how LoveBuster's take away from his Love Bank. Learn how Selfish Demands can negatively influence a relationship.

Now I'm not saying you are guilty of any of these things, but, none of us are perfect. You need to learn about Plan A, which includes EXPOSURE, which is a must, but it also includes correcting any of the things YOU bring to the marriage that could be improved. "Surviving an Affair" will teach you all about these things, and how they impact your marriage.

With this knowledge, you will develop a plan. This plan will empower you to feel like you have some say-so in the future. It will give you an advantage over your WH, because he has NO plan, and is recklessly pursuing the illicit feel-good that feeds his addiction to the A.

You cannot continue to be the frazzled, lost, little girl, appearing sad and needy in your Husband's eyes... because you make yourself look like a fool, and worse yet, you make the Other Woman look like a "princess" in his eyes.

It's time for you to get over the shock of this, and settle down, and start thinking rationally. A pity party will solve nothing. Taking Positive Action will give you a direction, a sense of self, a feeling of empowerment, and with help from these forums, a path that may very well put an end to the affair, and on the road to recovery.

You may want to see your Dr. and ask him about some anti-depressant medications, which will help you feel more grounded, and put you in a better frame of mind to deal with all this.

So... what will it be..... continued panic and paralyzation keeping you from moving forward..... or...... jump on board, educating yourself about the MB program, and taking steps to make a difference in your life?

Right now, your future is in YOUR hands. Period.

[color:"yellow"]by improving [/color]
I am a FWW and my A was much shorter than your H's. Re-writing marital history is one of the ways you protect yourself in the fog from the horrible truth of what you are doing. I did do some re-writing even though my A was short. My H (FWH) also did this, but to a larger degree than I did. So, whatever he may say about your relationship take with a grain of salt. I know it hurts, but this is an alien, not your H.

Now, pull yourself together and fight for your M. Your M has no chance if he is in the A. You need to expose. This may be your last chance. Think everything through before you do it. Stop reacting emotionally with him. Come here if you need to.

I know this is hard. Take care of yourself while this is all going on. I know how hard it is--I cannot even think about my H's D-days-- it just hurts too much. I can't bear it. I feel for you. (((eav)))

[color:"yellow"] by eav [/color]

what i can see very clearly is that what you all are saying is true the affair has continued while i have made all of these attempts to change and meet my husbands needs-these things should have brought him home-shouldhave even kept him from leaving-but because of her they didn't

she has got to go and the only way is to let him know (now i'm rhyming-almost no sleep for two nights nights-kinda foggy myself)

thank you for telling me things that are common from people in this situation so that i know he doesn't really hate me and he's just like everyone else. it sure feels like no-one else could be this crazy!

again..i'm not going to give him the letter until the agreement is final-but i'm hopeful that will be next week.
i do have reservations about this agreement. i hate to lose the house but i also hate to give him money to go off with her if her husband throws her out. this is a tought one for me to be certain of.

[color:"red"]up to page #25!! still awake:) [/color]

improving thank you! those posts were very helpful.

i absolutly understand how this happended. i can imagine how hard it was for my husband during the 5 yearsthat i was so depressed. and bless his heart-he took care of me-he was a good husband and a good man. the affair was a way of having someone take careof him-meet his needs.i couldn't at that point.

i understand and i forgive him.

as soon as i realized i was losing him-i fought my way out of the depression. and then when he said he was unhappy again- igot the book "surviving an affair" he listed his emotional needs but would not let me meet them-he was already back with the woman who met his needs when i couldn't.

he now says his feelings for me just died and they haven't come back.

the problem is my feelings for him never died-in fact, the more i came out of the depression-the more i realized how much i love him.

kinda a rotten deal-my love increasing while his dies

but i just want a chance to be the person he looks at with that sparkle in his eyes again.

so what do you suggest i do? i'm going to contact her husband. then i guess it's plan B although i don't know that much about it except it meansno contact.I find it hard to believe he's going to miss me when i wasn't there for so long though.

i wish i was more sure about this agreement.at times i think it'sbest to protect myself financially then i consider the downsides and wonderif it's worth it.

would you mind reading my posts when you can and giving me someinsight into his possible thoughts.

i have to tell you...if someome loved me and stood by me through all of this...made changes to help me to be happier and made a committment to work on our marraige and make me the priority in thier life...i'd love them...heck i'd adore them

why doesn't he?

[color:"yellow"]by eav August 12 [/color]

so...

he called at 7:00 this morning to say he was on his way to bring the little dog back (yeah little-70 pounds little but the big guy is 105)

of course i looked lovely when he came!

this is the first time in over 3 months that he's been here when i have (remember the last time-he came to get the dog and i left)

anyway...this relates to the key and garage door thing

i didn't hear the gargage door open-he always comes in that way. but i hear him yell out "hey..we're here" i came into the kitchen and said "i didn't hear you open the garage door" he said "i forgot the remote so i came in the patio door" it just made me feel good that although he keeps saying this is not his home anymore-that he feels comfortable enough to just walk in. he had to open the gate around back and come up on the porch-and he remembered that i always forget to lock the patio door. just a nice feeling that's all.

and...i can't explain it at all but this is the MOST comfortable that i've felt when he's been here since he left. usually i feel very anxious-i try not to act that way but i can tell from his comments later that he cold tell. i don't know why but i was really at ease. we sat on the porch for awhile-playing with the dogs and talking about nothing important. casual and relaxed which was nice andusually it's strained becausei'm so nervous tryig to act like i'm not. he said at one point "i wish i could stay and play with the boys but i gotta take off. I have to finish a project and send it out before i leave to go to my dad's house." but he stayed on the porch for about 15 more minutes just talking. he was telling me about projects at work and about what he'll be doing to help his dad. i was vevn able to get in a compliment-"your haircut looks nice" he said "thanks i did it myself"

then he said he had to wipe dog drool out of his truck. (gross) we always did this together after trips to visit our families. he went down to the truck to take the sheet off the seat-i brought him paper towels and windex and took the sheet form his hands so i could shake it out and fold it. whilehe wiped the windos and doors-i went up and got the lint brush for him. we just chatted about the truck and dogs. it was just like always...doing it together...such a nice feeling

when he wnet back inside to say goodbye to the boys-i notice that he looked over at my new bike (looks new but used cause the darn thing fell over yesterday and i tore the seat!) he didn't say anything but he noticed.

(remember that's something that he does and wanted us to do together)

before he left itold himthat he was welcome to stop by onhis way back from his dad's houses in a few days-a week to pick up the other dog. (i had noticed that the big guy seemed very distant from him and he has commented about this in the past)

anyway...as he usually does he called about 15 minutes after he left to see how the boys were getting along.

anyway...just an everyday unimportant fw minutes for anyone else but i treasure every second of it.

thanks for letting me share

i think i just realized something very different about how i felt today that might explain why i wasn't so anxious...i didn't expect him to stay as long as he did...i didn't even expect him to talk to me...and i wan't afraid that every second would be the last-like i had to try to think of something to say tokeep him there a little longer. it was SO NICE to have him there but i didn't expect what i got so i didn't push for more-does that make sense at all to anyone?

and i wonder if he even noticed?

most likely he didn't


[color:"yellow"]07/15/05 by eav [/color]
my husband was here today and it was nice. i got to thinking that it would be so nice to have him back home for good.

when i get to thinking.....something usually happens...sometimes good sometimes not so good

you decide which it was tonight.

here is how i spent my friday night.

i drove to the other woman's house-hmmm there was a white van parked in her driveway....could be her husband's i think
her car isn't there (at least i think i know what her car looks like because i saw it there last week)

so then i drove to MY husband's house (remember he's away this weekend) just to see if her car is there-maybe they are living together-never know. but-no ones there...little light on in kitchen like we left it when we went away

so then i realize that i could call her house and ask for her husband from a pay phone and the area code wouldbe the same so her mother would never know it was me. I asked a guy in a mini mart/gas station to ask for her husband for me-he worked there so when he had no customers-he locked up and we used the pay phone (didn't want to use the phone in the store or it would say the store name on caller ID)

he asked for her husband, her mother said "just a minute" a few minutes later she got back on the phone and said "he must not be here" (makes sense because she lives in the upstairs part of the house and they live in the downstairs so she had to go look for him) so then the guy asked "is there any other number i can reach him at?" her mom said "no this is the only number"

So...he still lives there!!

so...i got to thinking about that white van..hmmmmm

i drove back to her house. i parked behind the building next door. went through weeds and old junk along the building to get to the end of her fence-went through some rose bushes to get to her driveway and.....there on the side of the van was THE NAME AND NUMBER OF WHERE HE WORKS!!!
wheni got home i went online and did reverse number look up and i now have the address too!

now i have plenty of options how to reach him!!

it was a busy but productive night! wonder what a private investigatorwould have charged me for this?

it is going tobe very hard to wait until the agreement is signed. this is the first time i've felt like maybe there is a chance this couldend and things could work out.

but isn't there also the chance that he husband will leave and she'll still have my husband?

oh well....that's no worse than the way it is now right-either way i don't have him back



[color:"yellow"]aug 13th [/color]

my husband called last night to check on the dogs. we had a nice talk. jokes about the dogs of course. i told him i can tell he gave the little guy lots of attention cause he's following me around the house with his rope in his mouth
wanting to play tug of war! He told me that i should get a double dog leash and try walking them both since they love the walks they get when they are apart. i said maybe they love it but I'm 115 pounds and together they are 175 so if i try it-he's better keep the phone close by in case i need to call for someone to pull me out of the woods or where ever they decide to drag me! he also let know how dad and his family was doing.


[color:"yellow"] by peachy[/color]

Hey, EAV. You said that the OW's voice is on your hubby's answering machine at his new place. Have you thought about having someone call OWs husband, and leaving a message like, "Hey 'OWH,' this is Jim, and it's extremely important. Give me a call at this number (your hubby's number with OW's voice on the machine) ASAP!" That way the OWH will KNOW you aren't crazy, and you aren't BSing.

Just an idea, you keep trying to think of ways to get in touch with OWH, that's one that will keep YOUR NAME out of everything, and direct OWH's anger on the people that deserve it - the cheaters. :-)

[color:"yellow"] melody responding to mimi

mimi, in your case I would agree 100% that the 180 degree would have been a disaster. But in her case, she has been in Plan A, to some degree for 2 years! And in those 2 years she has been so overly eager and overly available that it has pushed him away and annoyed him. The idea behind the 180 is to let him approach her instead and not appear too overly eager.

In the meantime, he has grown so detached from her over the years, as his affair was cemented, that Plan B would have only been a relief to him. So, that is why I am having her try a somewhat modified Plan A, ie: her plan that, hopefully, will suit her situation better.

[/color]

[color:"yellow"] by melodylane [/color]

Eav, when we refer to 180 around here, it means the elements on the list I showed you. We are not talking about just doing something because it is different. In your case, the elements I think would benefit you most would be:

1. no relationship talk
2. no chasing or appearing too available or eager
3. giving the impression that you are moving on and have a life without him
4. allowing him to make the first contact, instead of contacting him all the time - letting him be the pursuer

And what I said about the OW is that if she hasn't left by now she probably has no intention of leaving. That is my speculation, not a hard and fast rule.

[color:"red"] up to page #30!! and today's latest[/color]

thanks so much for the offer peachy!!! that is so very kind of u!

i really don't have many people i can turn to for support except for here.

but...i just had my brother-in-law call for me!!! believe it or not...with this new information that she is on his anwering machine-he's mad enough to help!! finally!!

so now i wait

the secretary there said he is a service tech so he is on the raod-she said she would give him the message.

don't know when he'll get it-might not be until he checks in again and he does take the van home (cause it was in his driveway) so hemight not check in except every morning

let's just hope the secretary does not decide to call his home and give the message to "someone there"

my brother in law did say...no hurry...just give him the message when you see him

and he gave my husbands' name...not sure if that was a good idea...hopeit doesn't keephim from calling but he just left the first name and it's a very common name so it could be anyone...me i'd call for sure if i thought it was the other person but who knows what his thoughts are

i thought if he calls and hears his wife's voice-he wouldn't be able to find out whose house it was unless he had the name or paid to look it up cause it's unlisted.

i hope he looks at her cell phone records and sees if the number is on there!! i don't know if it is-she may be smart enough to only use her home phone cuse its local so there is no record and his records only say incoming call-no number is given so i don't know where she calls from...but i'm guessing she "HAS TO" talk to him"SO MUCH" even when she is away from home!!

i can't recall when i did the look-up if it gave his address also...it would be great if he checked for himself and got the address too! i'm glad i did something!! i'm tired of waiting for htis agreement to take some action.

I've waited long enough and this has gone on easily for them for too long!! ENOUGH!

(ps-so you all know-an unlisted number CAN BE traced)

hope it doesn't come back to bite me in the butt as far as the agreement goes though!

milk and mimi,
you are right, i do feel such guilt for not being there for both my father and my husband.

i do believe it does not excuse what my husband did but it does help me understand why it happened and this has allowed me to forgive him.

i blame myself for not doing something more about the depression-for not realizing that the medication was not working but i know in my mind that it becuase of the depression that i didn't take action. my heart still feels the guilt though.

like with my dad-i feel guilt for moving away, i feel guilt for not convincing him to come live with me,and i feel guilt because i knew he was considering suicide again and i didn't put him back in the hospital.

i can see how guilt can destroy people...maybe that's why my husband hates himself so much.

he does say "but you were sick. it wasn't your fault. you didn't do it on purpose. i should have been there for you but i made choices ON PURPOSE and i can't forgive myself for it. this is all my fault not yours"

but if hereally believed this he would not have told his sister that he just can't forgive me and he would not have told me "you checked out of this marraige long before i did"

i guess he is right when he says it's harder to forgive yourself.

i guess i should consider us even-we both made mistakes and we both hurt each other. now we both are hurting.

i hope we can heal together.

for me the forgiving myself would come with having the chance to do it better-to feel like i made up for it with him.

i wish he believed that by doing it better and making it up to me by comming home and working together to make our marraige better than ever, he could forgive himself.

thanks guys for all your kind words and support!

please be there to help me deal with the fallout from giving her husband the phone number. i can play dumb but they will most likely believe it was me anyway.


snore.....hey wake up! i'm done

thanks for hanging in there-if you didn't click me off half way through!

so...i'm kinda patheic right?

melodylane-i responded to you on my thread also.

i'm looking to better understand what my husband may be thinking and feeling.

i've learned alot by reading posts by wondering!