I have read "Surviving an Affair," "His Needs, Her Needs" and "Love Busters." I am committed to making my marriage work. My H and I have been married for two years (our anniversary would be/will be next month). I had an A about six months after we got married. I know why it happened. It wasn't because I didn't love my H or I couldn't commit. We started counseling, but things weren't changing because we didn't know what to do. When my H said he wanted a D in May and stopped talking to me, I made the mistake of calling the OM. I know it was a mistake, and God knows I wish I could take it back. But after reading all of these books, I have such a greater understanding of what we did wrong and how we can actually make things work. But my H has filed for D. I don't know what to do. It is not what I want. I want the kind of marriage we always dreamed of. Help! Is there anything I can do or say to get him to realize how sincere I am?

Cinn,

Welcome to MB...

Call Steve Harley and make an appointment for yourself. You can get the 800 number from the coaching link on the homepage.

He's the expert, and can guide you to your best course of action.

Why do you think you had the affair...and why do you think you called the OM in May?

Welcome to MB, Cinny! I'll be happy to help any way I can.

To your question ... your sincerity must come from your actions, not just words. You must show that you're trust-worthy and that you've turned over a new leaf. I now let my H have access to my email accounts. Even though he never looks any more, I show him my phone logs. He also can check my call logs on my cell any time he wishes. And, by all means, you MUST stop any and all future contact with the OM. If not, it will be the kiss of the death for your M!

Keep posting. Our wonderful BS's will be along in the morning to give you their perspectives.

Hang in there!!!

CSue...

I know that I can give a million reasons for why I called the OM in May ... my H stopped talking to me, and when he was, he was angry and called me names, and I got very depressed and went somewhere I knew that I would feel "love." But when it all boils down, I called the OM because I was selfish and I couldn't see the people who were already in my life that wanted to help if I had just asked.

I would love to call Dr. Harley and make an appointment, but is that really possible if I live in Orlando? At the point, my H has taken all of our savings to pay for his lawyer so I can't exactly afford to make a trip for one counseling session.


And to Whisper ... I have offered all of that to my H. I gave him my password and told him how to check my work e-mail. I have told him he can look through my cell phone every night if he wanted, and I would sit down with him each month when we got the cell phone bill and tell him about each call. But that doesn't seem to be enough.

Note - I believe CSue's suggestion is a phone call, not necessarily in-person counseling.

Hmmm ... let me see which BS we can call upon to give some recommendations. Just hang in there!!

Cinny,

I think a bit more information is required. But, first the counseling being suggested is done over the phone. And both Steve and Jennifer are Dr. Harley's children both with advanced degrees and MANY years of counseling experience.

You can seek counseling near you, but make sure the counselor is a pro-marriage as many are not. I know odd, but it is sadly true.

Now for a few questions if you don't mind.

You said
First, this is an excellent step.


How long did the A last? How did your H learn of the A? How long ago did you actually stop contacting OM, other than the call you mentioned in this thread? These are important questions because a lot of this stuff does follow a general time line.

Also has your H read any of the books you have? Had you read the books when you contacted OM this last time?



Why did it happen? It is important that we see why you think it happened in order to gauge where your H is right now. Further, does your H know why it happened?


I take it you read the books after contacting OM this last time? It was the last time right?


Yes there are but it will be hard for him to accept them for awhile. First of all notice this last paragraph. Notice how many times you say "I". What does your H want? Have you ever really asked him? I mean he has filed for divorce, but the question is: is this what he "wants" or what he thinks is necessary because he sees no alternative?

I would offer you the following thing to consider. He may well have filed for divorce because he feels he cannot "make" this work. You may not realize this but at 6 months, he did not have much of a chance to really mess up this marriage. Further depending on how long the affair lasted and how he found out, he will and probably does feel pretty powerless to protect himself or the marriage. So given that his self-esteem has taken a huge hit, and you recontacted OM, he sees divorce as his only recourse. Frankly given the short time of your marriage and the fact that there are apparently no children most would counsel him to continue.

So let me ask a few more questions. What has changed? Why do you think he should come back? What will be better for him if he does? What do you mean "I want the marriage we always dreamed of." Marriage is not a dream as you well know. So what would make this marriage worth him going through the pain of recovery for?

I am asking these questions becuase it is important that we know where you are, what your thinking is, and given what you say an some idea where you H may be in this. Right now I suspect he feels there is no way HE can control things and make the marriage work, so the alternative is divorce.

Please think about these things, and then give us your best shot at the answers. I look forward to hearing from you.

God Bless,

JL

Cinnymd, I'm going to wait until you answer JL's questions before responding with anything. There is too little know from your posts so far to give guidance of more that a very general nature. I would add to JL's questions a question about what part faith in Jesus Christ may, or may not, play in your and your husband's lives?

Looking forward to your responses.

P.S. It always looks "darkest" before the "dawn." Don't give into fear...work fearlessly for the desired goal regardless of whether or not it actually happens. Just remind yourself that most "successes" in life come after many "failures." The difference is how many times you are willing to pick yourself up out of the mud and try again versus the "urge" to "just give up and throw in the towel."
But without the target and the willingness to try no matter how hard it might seem to hit the "bullseye," you are certain to fail. The adage goes something like, "Failure to plan is a guaranteed plan to fail."

God bless.

Hi Cinny,

Welcome!

I too would love to hear more in response to JL's questions, I am a FWW wife as well. Please read the post that is linked in my signature to see if there is anything in there that can help you.

I recommend though to begin with - you make sure you have NO contact with OM in any shape or form.

Ok, JL, you have a lot of questions! I am kind of new to the whole message board thing and I don't know how to quote specific parts, so I will just go with the old copy and paste method.

How long did the A last? [color:"red"]It lasted for six months, however it was long distance, so it there wasn't constant contact.[/color]

How did your H learn of the A? [color:"red"]He found a card that the OM had given me.[/color]

How long ago did you actually stop contacting OM, other than the call you mentioned in this thread? [color:"red"]For almost the entire summer, my H either wouldn't talk to me or let me know that he wasn't really in the M, so I spent most of the summer looking for comfort from the OM (wrong place, I know). I have not contacted the OM in about three weeks.[/color]

Also has your H read any of the books you have? [color:"red"]He has not read "Surviving and Affair" but read part of the other two books a while ago. He never finished them.[/color]

Had you read the books when you contacted OM this last time?[color:"red"]I read "Surviving an Affair" just this last weekend. The other books, I read over the summer. Everytime I tried to apply them to my M, my H was resistant. Instead of persisting, I looked for that comfort again.[/color]



Why did it happen? [color:"red"]I think I referenced this earlier. We didn't know what our needs were and we didn't know how to meet them. My H would work nights, and sometimes weekends, and I would work days (I'm a teacher, he manages a bar downtown). The time that we did spend together lacked any meaningful conversation or deep affect, and thus also lacked a sexual relationship. I started talking to friends more while he was at work, and one of them happened to be a guy from high school that I talked to online. The more we talked, the more he seemed to listen, and the deeper I started to fall for this guy. Not because of who he was, but because of the way my needs were being met.[/color]
Further, does your H know why it happened? [color:"red"]I think he might have some idea, but I know that "Surviving an Affair" does a really excellent job of explaining this, so I am encouraging my H to read it.[/color]


I take it you read the books after contacting OM this last time? It was the last time right? [color:"red"]I have not contacted him since.[/color]

Yes there are but it will be hard for him to accept them for awhile. First of all notice this last paragraph. Notice how many times you say "I". What does your H want? Have you ever really asked him? I mean he has filed for divorce, but the question is: is this what he "wants" or what he thinks is necessary because he sees no alternative?[color:"red"]From what I gather, he "wants" this because he doesn't see any alternative.[/color]

What has changed? [color:"red"]In the time that we were working on making things better, we never really knew what we were doing. We never knew what the other person needed, so needs still never got met. We didn't know how to control our "love busters" so those were still there. I kind of liken our marriage over the past several months to attempting to dismantle a bomb ... you can work really hard at it and do a whole lot, but if you don't actually know what you are doing, there is a pretty slim chance of actually succeeding. But now I have all of this knowledge that I have gained from these books. I want to share it with my H and I am eager to actually put it into practice. [/color]

Why do you think he should come back? What will be better for him if he does? [color:"red"]I think that my H should come back so that we can actually make a real attempt at making things work, where we can use resources and knowledge to overcome the issues my A has given us. [/color]

What do you mean "I want the marriage we always dreamed of." Marriage is not a dream as you well know. So what would make this marriage worth him going through the pain of recovery for?[color:"red"]I don't expect marriage to be a dream. I fully expect things to be hard sometimes. But I also feel like we can have things that we never had before ... a healthy and passionate sex life (over the past few weeks, our sex life hasn't been healthy because he isn't there emotionally, but it has been more passionate than we have ever experienced). I believe we can have a marriage where needs are met, and where we can openly and safely communicate when we feel they are not. [/color]

My H and I have always tried to put God first in our marriage. We go to church together, and pray together. Unfortunately though, since things all started happening in May, my H has not been to church with me and our joint prayer life has taken a hit.

What do you think has caused your H to withdraw? You say he withdrew before you had the A? He works in a bar, right? I am feeling a little suspicious... Are you at all?

cinnymd,

As an aside to the great post from JL.

I would take complete and sole responsibility for the A to excess. If you can portrayt this truth and attitude beyond a brief duration, you will be surprised how soon your husband will be willing to absolve you from your sins.

Amazingly, he will become your staunchest defender

Active, sincere, apologetic and, responsibility accepting attitudes breeds forgiveness and healing.

cinnymd--Your husband is just very angry right now because you broke NC, both if you show him with your words and your actions that you mean "business" right now in the recovery of your marriage, he will forget about the Divorce. But you must really show him, that you acted in a crazy impulse, but that you promise him that, it will not happen again.
I had a few bumps like that with my husband Stanley, and he got really angry, but then he re-consider his words . Its really hard to mantain completely NC at the beginning, and you might have a few slips of calling, or e-mailing the OM, but I think the really important thing here is not to ever see OM again.

Your husband's anger will subside and he will try to understand why you weakened and called om. He is still not going to like it, but he will not divorce you for it.

If he truly loves you and wants your marriage to work, and he really forgave you, he will forget about Divorce for now, because of one phone call to the OM. But if you start contact again with OM, then your husband will have a very strong reason to proceed with the Divorce.

He wasn't withdrawan before the A, he just didn't quite know what it took to make a marriage work. He was still wanting to be very independent and have his own schedule. He has only started to withdraw because he feels like any effort would be wasted.

He works at a bar, yes, but not the kind of bar you are thinking of. It is an upscale wine bar. And while there have been plenty of times I have felt uncomfortable about his relationship with his employees (all of the servers there are, of course, gorgeous women), I have never once been suspicisious of him.

I just wanted to add my sincerest thanks to everyone who has responded and all of those who continue to respond. I only wish that I could have found this forum months ago. If I had support like this, things would have been so much different.

I continue to hold on to hope though, that I will be able to salvage my marriage and continue to use this forum as means to help through my situation, as opposed to using it to help me out of my situation (out of getting a D, that is).

cinnymd,

Take everything that Myrta has written to heart. She knows of what she speaks. Perhaps you need to do a search on her story with Stan_ley. It is remarkable not only for the turn around seen with Myrta but also her husband's determination and love for his wife and for his M. It is not always smooth, but it is real and it is inspiring.

Post deleted by cinnymd

Maybe your counselor is not very effective. He or she should be able to give you some concrete suggestions for things you should both do. You should both know what to do or at least try and see if it works.

Fire the counselor and get a new one.

cinny,

If your H is willing to go to prayer meetings and talk with the pastor then I think all is not lost. The path to recovery is very narrow so pay close attention to what you do. One of the hardest things is not to get too down when things are not looking good or too up when you think there is hope. This whole thing is often referred to as a "rollercoaster" and you are on one.

I would strongly urge to never contact OM again. I would encourage you to give your H full access to cell phone, computers, whatever. Offer these things to him as a token of your openness. Be an open book Cinny.

Next realize that he sees no hope, but he is hoping. Your job is to offer him NOT the same marriage but one you and he are happier in. That means you have to talk to him about HIS feelings, about your feelings, your thoughts, fears and hopes.

You cannot just do this once, but it will take a long and sustained effort on your part. There are two policies that this board really works of off. One is the Policy of Joint Agreement, POJA, and the other is the policy of radical honesty. Please read about them and discuss them. IF you and your H had employeed these policies it is unlikely you would have had your affair. If you address yourselves to the concept of needs and love busters, the marriage would not have been in the shape it was.

As others have said accept full responsibility for the A. Your H was not involved in you deciding to have this A. However, the condition of the marriage reflects on both of you.

So you need to defuse the A with radical honesty, No Contact with OM, and care for your H. This will take time and a lot of patience on both of your parts. The issue of the marriage is something that can be addressed by discussing needs, how they are met, and ending of LB's.

I think it is clear by now that you do love your H, although he may not see that yet, but that is not enough. Your H's self-esteem has taken a big hit. I think that alhough he has filed he does love you. But, right now he thinks that there are only two choices: swallow his pride and take you back accepting your apologies or defend his integrity and heart by divorcing you.

What you are just seeing and he has not seen yet is there is another alternative and that is to rebuild the marriage into something HE is proud of and not surprisingly you are proud of. He does not have to forgive you now. He does not have to believe you now. What he needs to do is allow you to show him YOU have changed and you now see things much differently even from before the A.

If you can send him here we will talk with him. It is hard for him to see right now, but the best thing for him to do is very likely the hardest and that is to give you a second chance to be the W you know you can be, and the best way for him to do that is be the best husband he can be.

This stuff is NOT for wimps and it is hard no matter what side you are on. Honor him for considering giving you a chance, and at the same time you need to give him a chance and right now that means No Contact, honesty, and patience with him.

I hope his friends and your pastor can sway him a bit, but ultimately it will be your sincerity, your honesty, your openness, your willingness to talk about tough things that will carry the day if this marriage is to be saved.

I think you are up to it. What you can tell him and what you need to do yourself is get a PLAN. Harley is big on plans because people can prepare, focus, and control their feelings with a plan. I will offer you an example.

It is nice to say you "would do anything to save the marriage", but what that does is put the onness of figuring out what to do on your H's shoulders and he doesn't konw what to do. So if YOU have a plan you can lay out what you will do, then ask for his input, his suggestions, guidance on things you have forgotten or did not appreciate. This brings him into the plan. ONce you two agree to it, YOU stick to the plan. This offers the greatest chance for recovery and it shows YOU have thought about what to do, rather than passing the issues off to him with the great sounding but empty statement "I will do anything..."

Does this make sense?

I hope so. I must go.

God Bless,

JL

JL - Just to clarify, when I talked to Chris (my H's friend), my H didn't even know about the Bible study.

He ended up not going anyway. Knowing my H, he most likely didn't go because it started at 7 am and he definitely is not a morning person. But I talked to his friend and he is getting a lot of good ideas of things to say. The two of them are going to play golf today, which is always an excellent time to talk, so I pray that goes well.

Thanks for your constant help and support.