I didn't. Not even gonna offer an excuse. I just didn't.

Patriot ~ I'm glad you will both be talking to Steve. I think he will help you both alot. I liked that he was very practical and straightforward - he's a fixit kinda guy, and I think for all of the husbands involved this is a relief! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

And btw, Patriot ~ Froz has an enormous amount of pain. As you have been reading, a lot of it has nothing to do with you at all. She has to sort it all out. This takes time. When your reality gets dumped upside down, alot of crap falls out and has to get picked up and put back together. We are taking sometime to do a little housecleaning while we are at it!

I can tell you however, that one of things that helped me in recovery with my husband was that he was willing to sit down with me and talk about the whys. The whys didn't necessarily involve the immediate affair, but instead, he talked about the really big why: Why he dealt with our marriage the way he did.

It helped alot for me to sort through what happened, why it happened, and to honestly see that my husband understood why he did what he did, and to discuss the traps he had fallen into that led down that slippery slope.

That to me was more comforting than knowing the dirty details. Well, not really comforting - but made me feel like the issues were being addressed and understood, instead of just pushed under the table out of sight.

I hope that helps you.

Ok, thats good. Don't offer me an excuse. What's the reason?

tqt,

If it bit me, I didn't feel it. I seem to be having some trouble understanding what the heck people are talking about tonight.

I didn't want to. I was really angry this morning, and I just plain didn't want to.

What were you angry about?

Loving yourself takes practice. Thats what I want you to do. Practice. It will feel stupid at first. That's ok.

I'm sick of hurting. I'm sick of dealing with the aftermath of the disgusting things he did.

I'm angry with myself for marrying him when I did.

I'm angry with him for betraying me.

I'm angry with myself for staying with someone who betrayed me.

I'm angry with myself for continuing to make myself vulnerable to him (which I am, despite what Pep seems to think).

I'm angry because I feel misunderstood.

There's a start.

Here's more...

I'm angry because he lied to me during Recovery about details. I would so much rather have had my pain in a heaping dose, than the little heart-ectomies I get from time to time.

I'm angry because what he did was horrible and hurt me terribly and I'm expected to choke that back and be nice to him and protect HIM.

I'm angry because he doesn't even understand how much it hurts.

I'm angry because he doesn't seem to want to try to understand how much it hurts.

WOOOOOOOT!!!!!

Let's celebrate your non-denial about your anger.

This is a very big step.

I'll kick yer hiney about all the victim statements in this post later.

I am just glad to hear you acknowledge that you are angry.

Froz, get a nice big note book - a private notebook for your eyes only (I mean it, Patriot does NOT get to see this book, and Patriot you keep your hands off!), and write out all the hateful mean angry and rageful things you are feeling and thinking.

Do this every day. But...here's a big but....When you shut the book cover, you shut the door on the anger.

You choose when to let it out, and chooose when to shut it down. It's your anger. Instead of allowing the anger to rule you, you choose what you are going to do about it.

Letting out the rage in controlled bursts, in a way that does not hurt others around you, is a safe way to explore your anger and let it out of your soul, where it is toxic and eating you from the inside out.

Writing it down takes it out of your head, out of your body, where it lies ugly, petty, boring, and kindy silly looking on paper, and loses all its power.

When I saw Patriot's post about your rage this morning...I wondered if you were going to tell me that you just didn't understand what Patriot was talking about, and that you were FINE. (F-rustrated, I-nsecure, N-eurotic, and E-motional!)

I am so very glad to hear you acknowledge your anger. Really I am.

I wasn't in denial about it. If I told you I wasn't angry the other day, it's because I wasn't.

Today I was, so I told you.

I rarely lie about the way I feel.

I knew precisely what Patriot was talking about this morning. Apparently, in a drug-induced middle of the night conversation we had, I told him that it hurt too much to love him.

I've been thinking about that all day.

Love is a choice, yes? I've been wondering if it wouldn't hurt so much if I simply chose not to.

I'll try the "for my eyes only LB" method, although leaving it all in the notebook with nothing residual doesn't sound easy to accomplish.

Keeping him out of it also doesn't seem easy to accomplish.



I can hardly wait!!!! And it's not even my birthday!

And Froz ~

Anger is one of the nasty walls standing between you and Patriot's love.

You can't deny it, ignore it, shut it out, or pretend it doesn't exist. The toxic poison will filter into your entire life and infect it.

The only cure is to work through it - look at it, feel it, explore it, and then, let it go when you find that you don't need it anymore.

Good morning Patriot and Froz!

Sending lots of love and good wishes your way today!

Sally

Back atcha, Cutie!

BR, t/j here (sorry froz) Someone on my thread suggested Ala-non for me not because of alcohol but because of my enabling my H's apparent SA. Does something like that make sense? You can answer on my thread if you don't mind. I know you are helping froz right now. Just want an opinion. Ok back to the regularly scheduled programming.

Not considering it a threadjack, FF.

I'm kind of flattered that someone came to my thread to look for BrambleRose...makes me feel important to have a self-proclaimed "PitBull" in my corner!

I'm also curious to hear the answer to your question.

Hope you're doing well today.

Dear Faithful ~ Al-Anon Tradition #2 states: The only requirement for membership is that there be a problem with alcoholism in a relative or friend.

I don't know my grandfathers. Their alcoholism profoundly affected my parents though, and so had a lasting impact on me, although I had no personal connection with either.

They were my qualifiers long before I met my husband.

Can the 12 steps help you? yes absolutely. If you truely don't have a problem with alcoholism in your life (and odds are that you do...) then there are other 12 step support groups related to sexual addiction or eating disorders..etc.

Melody Beattie is a very helpful author, you might try reading some of her stuff.

F.I.N.E
(I'm)
frustrated
insecure
neurotic
emotional

F.E.A.R.
face
everything
and
recover

N.U.T.S.
not
using
the
steps

E.G.O.
edging
God
out

D.E.N.I.A.L.
don't
even
notice
I
am
lying

H.A.L.T.
(don't get too)
hungry
angry
lonely
tired

H.O.W.
honesty
open-mindedness
willingness

A.C.T.I.O.N.
any
change
to
improve
our
nature

P.R.O.G.R.A.M.
people
relying
on
God
relying
a
message

K.I.S.S.
keep
it
simple
sweetheart

Dear Froz ~

Brace for incoming foot swing! (Consider this a love kick. Or token, yeah that!)


This is a lie.


Yes you did, and I am very proud of you for acknowledging it.


Yes you do, your lies are all over this thread.

Denial. (Don't Even Notice I Am Lying) Did you read Pep's list? (thank you Pep, lol, I was looking for those earlier and couldn't find them!)


This is a truth that Pepperband and I have been pushing you on. This is your hurt, wounded, abandoned little baby girl talking. She needs you to love her.

Did you tell yourself I LOVE YOU in the mirror today? Why not? (This is a big question).

Patriot has misfortune to be receiving alot of your hurt and anger, because his affair is easier to blame with than the pain of abandonment and rejection from everyone else in your history.

Your hurt is another huge, tall wall between you and Patriot. This is another reason you are not a willing vessel to his love. He can't possibly fill you up from this pain ~ especially because he truely did not cause it all.

Do you begin to see why I said that perhaps your needs were impossible for Patriot to fill?


This is hurt and fear talking. You are right, maybe the pain would be easier to deny if you choose to stop loving Patriot.

But then you would deny yourself the pleasure of giving and receiving love.

And the anger wouldn't vanish, and the pain from all of your past hurts would not vanish either.

Instead, they would fester inside you...and eventually you would find that your pain has not really subsided as planned.

Do you want to wake up one day and discover that you have become a bitter, angry, mean old woman? Because your fear and anger are leading you right down the path to a cold, cruel existence.

God wants (wills) us to experience Love in our life. Do you think that perhaps, but shutting yourself off from love, by allowing your fear and pain and anger to dictate your choices by putting up huge walls to others, that maybe your self-will might be running the show, in direct opposition to God?

Are you smarter than God? Is your plan better than His?

Let go (of your will), and let God (work His will). Such a simple phrase with so much power!


To try is to lie.


Its a choice. You must learn to accept anger, and other feelings as just that, feelings. They are not facts. You have complete power over your choices of actions based on those feelings.

Choosing to feel really RAGEFUL for 20 minutes, and to write it all out and then choose to stop, and put the lid on it is possible.

If at first, you are too rageful to write....try a punching bag, or kick boxing..or something...

Yes, its challenging, but that is because you are out of practice.


That is not your problem. This is his. He has been warned.

I'll opt for a token. I'm in a good mood today and don't feel like being kicked.




Is not.




Still not lying. Lying would seem to denote knowing the truth and then denying it. I'll buy off on ignorance, but I wasn't lying.

And yes, I read Pep's list. It was a blast from my past. She sounds so much like my mother sometimes, it's eerie. She's definitely more hip, though. My mom would never say something like, "you da man". That is how I KNEW that Pep was a nurse. My mom is a nurse. So is my biological mother. That comparison isn't a negative one, by the way. My mother has many, many fine qualities.




Awww, crap! I actually did make it a step closer today. While I was putting my makeup on in the bathroom mirror, I did think about it. I prepared for it and was even gonna use my real name and everything. I got sidetracked, though, and then had to hurry it up or be late for work and forgot.

I didn't intentionally avoid doing it today like I did yesterday, so hopefully that's a step in the right direction.

Oh, what the heck. I own a hair salon. I have mirrors all over the place here. Be right back...

Okay. Mission accomplished. I said it three times and Dorry appeared in the mirror, sticking her tongue out at me!

Not really, but I did say it three times.




I can't imagine doing that. I'm really not as angry as you seem to think I am.


Hope you have a good day! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Ok dear. You win.

BR, thanks I looked up Melody Beattie and ordered two books. Codependancy no more and Letting go.