hey ~ I guess I'm working too much and I just missed all these posts.

Anger has to come out or it festers inside your soul, eating you from the inside out.

I'm glad you are angry. Take it out, let it rage (walk, run, write, scream, cry - privately), and then put it back in its box til tomorrow.

Learning not to control each other's emotions is a big huge step. That's part of detachment. Loving and respecting my spouse enough to "allow" him to have emotions that may scare me or make me uncomfortable was hard. Recognizing that I was not responsible for his emotions was difficult for me to do. I had been raised to believe that other's emotions were my fault.

I learned that I have to be a good wife. That means I hold myself accountable for being a loving, good wife. I may do my best to meet my husband's emotional needs, but that does not mean I am responsible for his emotions. Part of being a good wife means recognizing that my husband will never experience "bad" emotions.


well, silly, make a decision.

In life, pain is a given you can't avoid. Misery is a CHOICE of lifestyle.

So I've heard. I was actually directly referring to your sig. line when I said that.

I did make a choice. I am not miserable.

I could, however, do without some of the pain of late.

New and difficult things to adjust to ....are these new ways to react to situations. I am trained one way, and then unlearning that to make room for the new way feels like la la land. Like I am floating out in the universe unprotected by anything.

Anyway, tonight is the big night(tickets to a musical) and I am really looking forward to it. I am pretty sure she is too. So, I got the RC thing covered tonight...:P

I still have a few attitudes and responses to certain situations to relook at. But, it is a pretty big transition period at home right now, because of the 'she can have feelings and it isn't my fault' thing.

In the time I have been here at MB, I have learned quite a bit.

Anyway, ramble over...

What do you mean? Could you clarify?

floating around... like when something changes, you have to change your reaction to it.

The old habitual response is no longer valid... but the old habitual response is 'safe' because it is the usual. The routine. When something changes(like your dealing with your feelings in such a way that I am not blamed for them) then it feels different because I had a patented response to the old behavior from you. Now your behavior is different, and so I must change as well.

It is the fact of change that makes you feel 'out there'. Old habits were routine. Routine was 'safe'(I use the term safe loosely). Change of behavior is just different.... because I need repetitions at it to see what works and does not work with the new behavior from you.

Does any of this make sense?

Yes, I suppose it was the use of the word 'unprotected' that I was curious about. I see what you mean now.

I realize there is an adjustment period, but my hope was that my behavior would enable you to feel safer. Are you missing the safety of my tentacles, perhaps??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

like tentacles!!!

Are you finding freedom scary?

Oh my. I had to giggle when I read this.


Right from the horse's mouth! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Now Froz!! are you willing to take back all those temper tantrums that we were beating on you and not Patriot? You think there might have been a method to our madness??

I'm not ABLE to take back the temper tantrums, so no point focusing on that. I wish I could have understood sooner, but the fact is that I didn't. I understand, somewhat, now and that is what matters. Also, obviously, if I can get "it", anyone can.

Things are very tense at our house right now. With perceptions having shifted, things have become uncomfortable and neither of us really knows how to respond appropriately or communicate effectively to the other.

I have learned some things NOT to do, but feel ill-informed on what TO DO.

Yesterday SUCKED! It just plain sucked all the way around. There was a point where I thought I could turn it around with a positive attitude, but outside forces and emotions took over and it just blew!

Today didn't start off too great, either. Again, I'm trying to turn it around by not allowing my perception to run amok. I am struggling. I can't even sort it out right here, much less in my head. I guess I'll envision (since mental pictures seem to be so effective) the analogy of the tangled bunch of necklaces that Pep mentioned to Faithful Follower. Most women can sure identify with that scenario! Pep said to pick a chain and start unravelling.

One chain:

Patriot seems very uncomfortable with my taking responsibility for my feelings. I think he LIKES to feel guilty or feel he is failing at something. The fact that I have taken that away from him seems to leave him at a loss in how to respond. I understand he needs time to adjust.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch...I have needs, too. It always seems as though what he needs takes precedence. We do things at his pace. Often, by the time he is up to a certain task it's too late.

Example: I never properly received from him either details about his A or corrections of lies he told me post D-Day. He wasn't up to the task. He didn't feel safe. I feel that some of this is necessary for proper healing of our M, but now I am scared and don't feel safe to go back and directly face some of that. It is very painful. I would rather have had my pain in one huge stab, rather than a bunch of painful little cuts, but I couldn't control that. So, I feel as though I either deal with things as they are or I must take one for the team. I always seem to be taking one for the team, in order that he may feel safe.

Another example:

Last night I really needed him. Some of my crappy day had nothing to do with him and some of it did. I was dying to have someone just say, "Tell me all about it".

I didn't want to just dump it on him if he wasn't a willing participant. I talked to him on the phone before he got home, and he was venting about some frustrations with a professor at school so it didn't seem like a good time.

Then, he got home and I knew he needed to unwind for a minute (again, his need taking precedence). So, mine went on the back burner for a bit longer.

Then, he said he wanted to do a little bit of studying. I did tell him that I wanted to talk about my day, but I was afraid of making him feel uncomfortable. He had a scared rabbit look on his face, so I didn't proceed.

In the end, he did talk to me and I shared with him the one thing crappy about my day that had nothing to do with him. He was supportive, but I hated having to hold back to protect him. I also hated that I had to go to him, once again. I don't mind informing him of my needs. It would just be really nice if he took the initiative because he wanted to. It would be nice to feel wanted and accepted, even when things aren't necessarily comfortable.

I hate playing "Happy Home" when it isn't all happy. It feels way too much like before the A, and it gives me the heebie jeebies.

He has told me before that he only likes it when things are pleasant. Of course, I would rather things be pleasant, too, but sometimes they just aren't. He seems to want to pretend that they still are, even when they aren't, and I prefer to address issues so they can be dealt with and removed. Yet, I have no desire to force him to do this nor do I desire to make him feel incredibly uncomfortable. I hate the scared rabbit look.

I don't think he likes being free.

I don't like feeling less important.

I don't like feeling like I am last on the priority list.

I don't like dealing with the painful aftermath of his A and all that comes with that, while he gets to feel safe and protected, and free to pretend like things are fine.

Why do I have to carry the whole burden alone when I wasn't the one who had an A?

That might be two or three tangled chains, but they were the ones that were sticking out.

Time, practice and patience with yourself and your spouse is the cure here.

Allow yourself and Patriot the freedom to screw it up. No one gets it perfectly.


Hmmm...so you don't bear any resonsiblity here? Yesterday just grabbed you around the throat, held you down against your will and had its way with ya?

If your emotions and "outside forces" take over, its only because you allowed it to happen. You make a choice to go 'there'.


This really is a power struggle. I know you won't really get it now that I have said it, but this is a symptom of you trying to wrastle "today" under your control, fueled by anger and resentment.


yep, and a very good suggestion. Most of our motivations aren't exactly black and white, cut and dry.

Anything new in a relationship is uncomfortable ~ pretty normal on his part.


Careful. DJ here, big time.


Patriot, like alot of men, is likely a fixer. If it is "about him" then he can do something about it. What is probably the issue for him (and I am guessing, he'd have confirm this) is that he sees you in distress, and doesn't have a clue what 'to do'. If you told him Billy Bob down the street was ticking you off, he could march off and defend your honor or whatever it is guys do, and come back feeling proud that he had fixed the problem for his sweetie.

But "I'm sad, angry, depressed, having a crappy day" and "no honey, you can't do anyting about it to make it right" is a hard thing for any guy to deal with.


Ok. Warning. Get off this pity pot. Your needs do NOT take precendence any more than his do. But the kicker is...you don't have the right to have your needs met at his expense.



And his mistake, as he has communicated - as he now 'gets it' that he should have told you everything up front. I was under the impression that he is willing to offer up those details if you request them - or am I wrong?



Yes, probably true.


So now, it is YOU who are choosing not to go there, and holding him to blame for it?


Froz ~ this is your choice. The past can't be changed. He didn't understand how much you needed this to heal. Now he does. But that just isn't good enough for you. You want him to go back and fix this, and he just can't.

If you want the details, ask, instead of fuming over WHY you didn't get the details on your terms a few months ago. If you choose not to get the details, then get over it already because this is just not productive for marital recovery.


Fair enough.

But let me point out, that girlfriends are important for marital sanity. Girlfriends are for venting and dumping...truely.


"It didn't seem like a good time". So you chose for him? Did you say directly: Honey I had a really crappy day and I really need to talk about it? Because what you wrote here says to me that you made that choice for him,and then were resentful about it later - and he had NOTHING to do with the decision that you took control of.


You knew how?


Did he say - no don't proceed, I refuse to listen?

Or you decided he couldn't handle it (big time DJ)?

Frankly hon, I'd be scared too. You've got him drawn and quartered before he's had a chance to say word, and he knows it.


Did he ask you to protect him? Or was this more of you deciding for him what he can or can't handle?


Part of honesty and openness means that you are RESPONSIBLE for asking for what you need, instead of EXPECTING the other person to guess.

Yes it would be nice to have a mind-reading partner, but thats fantasy land dear.


This is your problem Froz. Your husband DOES want you and DOES accept you. You won't let him show you.


I LOVE what Dr Phil says about "If you only deal with problems in a relationship, then you have a Problem Relationship".

You NEED to have "happy home" moments in order to build a happy home.


well duh. me too. But I know alot of people who thrive on crisis and drama, and absolutely refuse to have a pleasant experience. Why? lots of reasons. I've tried to explore some of your reasons for this behavior on this thread.


Well if I go back and read what you ahve said in this post and others, you don't think pleasant should happen at all unless your relationship is fixed. That's a life sentence Froz, because ALL relationships are a process. If they stop processing you've got stagnant and DEAD.


DJ. DJ. DJ.

I don't get even the slightest sense that your husband is pretending ANYTHING.


Your rule is:

No fun/no happiness/no joy unless problems are fixed (according to my demands).

As a result:

If Patriot looks happy/joyous/or fun - then he is lying.

This is what you are saying 100%.


Stop being responsible for his feelings and stop controlling the situation.

My God. He walks in the door at night, and you say: Patriot, I'm going to tell you about my day and you better not feel anything but gratitude for a chance to meet my needs!

DJ



So stop choosing to make yourself less important. You choose to put your needs last and then blame him for your choice. This is your problem.


Again, you put yourself there. You don't give him the opportunity to put you higher.


DJ. And again, you set up this situation.


You don't have to. You choose to.


Well once again dear, I've probably spanked your rear end pretty hard.

((hugs))

Yep.



Yeah? Well...even I can only maintain a Polly Sunshine attitude for just so long.



I don't know what you mean.



Isn't everything normal on his part?



I'm sick of everything being "about him". The above statement kind of says..."Poor thing, poor Patriot." Everything he does is so understandable.

Shall I tell you what is a hard thing for any woman to deal with, or does that even matter?



Okay so since he is a Fixer, he is entitled to throw his pity party. You know what? Since everything IS always about him, it always IS at his expense. When will it stop being at his expense? His needs take precedence, mine don't.

Perhaps I should take the same attitude. After all, you think it never comes at my expense to meet his needs? There isn't room in this M for two selfish people who make everything all about them, therefore I should just "take the hit".



Oh, he begrudgingly says he is willing to do this...now that it's no longer at his expense, but my own. Sorry I'm not jumping at the opportunity - like it's some kind of pleasure cruise for me. You capitulate that it's probably the best thing for the M. That doesn't necessarily mean it's the best thing for me, personally.

As far as I'm concerned, he can keep his secrets. If he is content with having his walls up, then fine. Of course, this behavior by him should be perfectly understandable. Yet another occassion where I either settle for the walls, or do it at my expense. I'm tired of adjusting everything I need around his timeframe.

I'm sick of basing everything on HIS protection. He is the one who had an A. When do I get protection? Only after he feels safe?



It was an example.



I don't care to have marital recovery if it is constantly going to be at my expense, and never at his.




WHAT girlfriends? None of them know of this situation. What a choice...I either impose further humiliation on myself by telling them the whole story or I choke one down "for the team".



I did try to be considerate of him with reference to my timing, but yes - I did say it directly.


No, he did not say that. He ignored me.



I knew because he told me.



Poor guy. Where does he have me? You may say that I am responsible for where he has me, but then why does that also make me responsible for where HE is??? Do I need to be responsible for both of our feelings?



You're giving me mixed messages here. You are telling me not to take something if it is at his expense, yet if I just take it, I am also wrong.



If you are implying that I thrive on crisis and drama...you're way off base. I don't enjoy it. There is not some sick payoff in it for me. I do accept, though, that life does not always have pleasant experiences. I am not afraid to work through them. I do not hold the belief that ignoring them will make them disappear.



I already stated that I don't expect him to be a mind-reader. I have told him many times that it would be nice if he took the initiative, instead of it always being my responsibility.



Not true. I will let him show me. Unfortunately, he only shows me when I am feeling good. As soon as an issue comes up, he takes it away.



Do you not? You don't live with him.


That is not what I am saying. There are many times when I allow the happy, joyous fun to continue, even where there are issues to deal with.

If he looks happy/joyous/fun and he isn't - he is not being real.



Really? If I choose to put his needs second, it will be called 'punishment' or controlling.


I don't choose to. I chose to help. I do not choose to do it alone.



Oh well.

Froz ~

Your needs should never be first.

His needs should never be first.

If one of you 'wins' the other 'loses'.

Do you want your husband, the man you love, to lose?

When I read your post yesterday, I was very careful to check when you said you communicated your needs to talk to your husband.

You were pretty clear that you didn't tell him until long after you had already pre-decided for him what he was willing to do. And then you were angry at him for a choice you didn't give him.

THIS behavior is YOU putting your needs last. This is NOT Patriot's selfishness.

No you should NOT do things that cause HARM to Patriot. That does NOT mean that if Patriot looks tired you can't talk to him about your feelings.

YES you should POJA. POJA means that you state openly and honestly what you need. And so should Patriot. And then the 2 of you should negotatiate a plan that meets both needs EQUALLY.

Maybe he says, I need to unwind, can we talk in an hour? If I can decompress, I'll be a better listener. You say, NO, I need to talk right NOW. And then he can say something like, OK, can we put a timelimit on the conversation? I can listen and converse with you if we limit it to 15 minutes. Can you tell him in 15 minutes? If you can, then agree! Or come up with another plan and ask what he thinks, and be willing to accept his answer.

But to insist, that when he walks in the door, that he drop everything and give you what you need, at his own expense, is harmful to your marriage.

I'm not saying this is what should be, I'm just trying to describe negotiation where both needs are respected.

You are not respectful of Patriot. Quite disrespectful in fact.

Now, I'm late for work. I can't respond more in depth til tonight.

No. I don't want that at all. I want it NOT to always be such a sacrifice for him to meet my needs. I want us both to win. I don't want to lose, either.



I didn't communicate it very well to you. I may not have communicated it to him very well, either.

The way it actually went down was probably somewhere in the middle. Initially, I did not directly ask for what I needed. I was still holding out for the "Tell me all about it" hope. When I didn't get that, I slowly let him know. Maybe I did it too slowly...I don't know. I'm pretty sure he knew what I needed.

He must have, because he did leave his homework to come talk to me. Yes, I probably did decide what he could and couldn't handle. I was trying to be considerate by not dumping it all on him.

I took his cues. I told him a little bit, but let him know there was more to my bad day. I waited for him to ask to see if it was safe for him for me to proceed. He didn't look safe. He didn't act like he felt safe, either. I needed him, but I didn't want to put him in a bad position. I didn't want to dump everything on him, punish him, or make him feel guilty.

I understand what you mean about me putting my needs last.

I also understand what you mean about negotiation.

I can also somewhat see how my lack of definitive boundaries, lack of taking responsibility, and presence of expecations have made the last two days pretty bad for me. Unfortunately, I don't have a very clear perspective. I still feel smack dab in the middle of it.

I am also afraid to get out of the middle of it because now I have become angry and expressed that in a manner that you say (probably correctly) has been disrespectful to Patriot. If I get out of the corner I have backed MYSELF into, I will be forced to admit my failures. If I acknowledge them I become vulnerable. I also will feel obligated to make the necessary changes if I recognize the ways I was wrong.

I already feel vulnerable enough because I needed something from him. Also because I have given too much lately, without appropriately setting boundaries and I feel unprotected. I realize that I failed to protect myself. I am angry with myself for that.

So, for the sake of putting something in print to gain perspective (and spankings from you, of course):

The Last Two Days

Tuesday:

I went for a walk...triggers everywhere. I have removed, as has Patriot, most things that trigger me from my house. I can't control outside stimuli, however. I will head you off at the pass in case you are going to tell me that I can control my reactions to outside stimuli. Sure, to a degree I can control my reactions to them, but it is VERY PAINFUL. Sometimes it is just too painful to ignore.

So, I came back from the walk even angrier. I tried my best to apply the new concepts I have learned. I didn't blame Patriot for my anger. I took responsibility for it, and then I went to work, still maintaining my Polly Sunshine attitude. Patriot is very pleased when I am happy. I also feel better when I am happy. I was trying to make my attitude a choice, though it was becoming more difficult than the previous few days.

Work was slow and boring. I had one client at 10:30 am, and not another until 4:30 pm...not your ideal schedule, but hey - money is money. So, I made the best of the situation. I decided to give some attention to some of the girls at work. I also decided it would be a great idea to clean and get some things done at the salon because I had no clients scheduled thus far for Wednesday.

I arranged that on purpose. Every once in awhile, if early in the week I have no clients on a particular day, I can condense them into the rest of the week and take an extra day off. I decided I would take care of all my responsibilities on Tuesday and actually take Wednesday off for a Me Day. I really thought this Me Day would be a good exercise in meeting some of my own needs and setting boundaries.

So, work and cleaning at work being boring, I decided to call a friend. That did not go well at all. We had a disagreement, so I decided to set a boundary and remove myself from the situation. I told her I wanted to get off the phone. So I did. It was pretty upsetting.

Patriot and I often communicate via e-mail throughout the day. I remained positive in my e-mails to him. I shared a ramble of some thoughts with him in one e-mail. It was really long. I found it minorly irritating that he did not receive it. My work account does not save sent e-mails, so I could not resend it.

One of the thoughts I shared with him in this ramble was me thinking about his sister who has a baby due soon, which led me to wonder if anyone was having a baby shower for her, which led me to wonder if I should throw one for her, which led me to remember (I know...I think way too much) that I swore I would never throw another one for anyone after the last one, which led me to wonder if her friend would throw one for her, which led me to great worry.

I worried because this friend, we'll call her Cinnamon, was someone who Patriot was involved with just prior to our relationship. It's a really long story, so I won't go much into specifics, other than to say that I am very jealous of Cinnamon because Patriot pursued her for more than a year, even though she was not really interested in a relationship with him. He chased her. I am jealous of that.

I don't like Cinnamon. I don't understand why he chased her. Cinnamon is not pretty, she is overweight, and she was very mean to Patriot (way meaner than me...the mean thing is new for me, remember?). I have no idea why he would choose Cinnamon over me. He did.

I have always felt like second choice because Patriot started dating me only because Cinnamon did not want a relationship.

Also, Patriot's sister just happens to be one of the very few people who know about the A. It was very poor judgment on my part to share this with her, but it was very early after D-Day and I regret it immensely because Patriot's sister is very unreliable and not trustworthy. She has a big mouth. She and Cinnamon were on the outs and had not been in touch for quite some time, or I probably wouldn't have told her at all.

Since then, she and Cinnamon have reconciled. I am terrified that his sister told Cinnamon everything. That is why I was worried that Cinnamon might throw her a baby shower.

I told Patriot in the e-mail that I was worried about that, and then I told him it was silly, worrying about something that hasn't even happened. I remembered what you said about living in the past or the future and I put it out of my head and stopped worrying about it.

UNTIL...

A couple of hours later, Patriot's aunt called me at work to tell me that Patriot's grandmother had received a baby shower invitation that she believed was meant for me (his grandmother and I have the same name, now that we are married). His aunt said the baby shower was for Patriot's sister. I asked her who the hostess was (which, of course I already knew). Of course, it is Cinnamon.

You said there are no coincidences. Was that a case of self-fulfilling prophecy? Perhaps it was just the law of probability. Either way, what are the chances that I worry about this and then a couple of hours later, it happens?

Now my day really is crap. I do not want to face Cinnamon, who already knows I got Patriot by default and possibly also thinks that he only married me because he cheated on me. This baby shower is not exactly a scenario in which I feel I can hold my head up high.

It was a pretty overwhelming day. You already know the part about me wanting to dump it all on Patriot and how that went.

Despite that, I still knew that I could control my reactions and Polly Sunshine was a little cloudy, but still present. Also, I had Me Day to look forward to (now much needed).

Wednesday:

Me Day was going to be all about ME and whatever I wanted to do to relax. I told the girls at work in advance. I told Patriot in advance. I told myself in advance. My plans for Me Day were: to not have to look presentable until very late in the day, stay home and get a little housework done, begin a scrapbook of pictures from Patriot's childhood. We had theater tickets for the evening, too.

So I got up Wednesday morning, with Me Day to look forward to - all planned out nice and neat.

Before Me Day could commence, Patriot asked if I would trade cars with him (something he knows I seriously dislike because I love my car) so I could take his car to have the oil changed. He told me I had the option to say no.

I failed to set an appropriate boundary. I said yes. I said yes because I would have felt guilty and selfish when I had all day to do it.

I know that is my fault, and I owned it. I rarely respond well with short notice. Heck, I rarely respond well AT ALL, even WITH notice! Anyway, I owned it. I set boundaries for future situations such as that one by e-mailing Patriot and telling him that in the future I would appreciate advance notice when he needed his oil changed.

He felt guilty. Polly Sunshine told him all the right things - it was already done, no sense beating yourself up over it, etc...He told me the oil change was no big deal and I should put it off for another day. I agreed, without feeling guilty this time.

Next I received a phone call from one of the girls at work (who apparently missed the message that I was taking a Me Day). She asked if I was coming in to work. I said no. She said she was hoping that I would be because her sister is getting married this weekend and she wanted me to color her hair and such, but oh well.

After I got off the phone with her, I really wasn't in the mood for Me Day anymore. I made the CHOICE to scrap it and move to plan B. Plan B was to decide whether or not I really wanted to go up to work and color this girl's hair. I decided that I did. I was starting to feel bad at home and I wasn't getting any of the things accomplished that I'd wanted Me Day to be about.

So, plan B...I did go to work and do her hair. She was appreciative and it was nice visiting with her and feeling as though I were helping her during a very busy time for her. She helped me through the busy time of my own sister's wedding and it was nice to have the opportunity to return the favor. Plan B also included taking Patriot's car to get the oil changed, since I was getting out of the house anyway. So I did, without feeling resentful for it. I knew it was my choice.

I sent several very nice, positive, loving e-mails to Patriot throughout the day. It felt good (I thought) to take responsibility for my own choices and feelings. It also felt good to own abandoning Me Day. It made me feel as though I were somewhat flexible, since I had made the choice and also chose to make the best of the circumstances.

So I decided to come home and make everything perfect for Patriot before going to the theater. I felt giving. My plan was to have the house in perfect order, cook a perfect dinner, and be ready for the theater in a perfect amount of time, which would please him immensely because he hates it when I am late. I devised a time schedule to accomplish all of these tasks in a relatively short time frame. It seemed do-able.

Of course, life interfered again. It was not as do-able as I thought. The house did not get perfectly clean in the alotted time, due to teenagers needing attention. Also, I allowed my son to throw another task in. I also needed something from the grocery store to accomplish the perfect dinner. I thought I could still do it all, if maybe I had a little help from Patriot. Polly Sunshine decided to call him and ask for his help.

Patriot was not sunshiny at all. He ranted and raved about how wound up he was. He let me know how stressed he was over school because he did not study the night before, because he spent that time talking to me instead. In an instant, Polly Sunshine turned into Frozen Solid.

I lost it. I no longer cared what we had for dinner. I wasn't even going to cook dinner. I didn't care that the house wasn't perfectly clean. I wasn't going to do it. I would be ready for the theater on time, but I no longer cared about any of the other things.

Patriot went to the store. Patriot took my son to accomplish his task. Patriot cooked dinner. I guess one would think that was nice of him. I did not. It was not what I wanted, and also it kept him busy so he did not have to talk to me.

I was ready on time for the theater and we went. He did try to talk to me some, but I was still Frozen Solid, except when I cried at the theater during the parts of the play when the guy proposed and also when they cheated on each other.

I was very distant last night and he avoided me when we got home. I woke up in the middle of the night and cried for about two hours. I was mean to him and wouldn't let him touch me. I am not proud of that, but glad I did not do the even meaner things I was thinking of.

I am not Frozen Solid anymore, but I am not Polly Sunshine, either. I am more like Slushy...not the good kind of slushy like a snow-cone, but the bad kind of slushy...like a parking lot gets after snow starts to melt, all black with tar or oil or whatever.

*yaaawn* Good morning Froz.

I hate Polly Sunshine. Polly Sunshine is fake, forced and controlled.

People with plastic smiley faces and white knuckles make me very uncomfortable.

No, she isn't! Polly Sunshine chooses to be happy! Polly makes lemons out of lemonade!

She is much nicer to be around than Frozen Solid, or Snowcone Slushy, and Parking Lot Slushy...they just let their emotions rule them, with no choice of how they feel in the matter.

Hi Froz ~

I'm sorry I'm so late in responding to you...the last few days have been chaotic as I was getting ready to leave on a business trip. I'm sitting in a hotel in Switzerland right now, fighting jet lag.

Couple of things struck me about your post:


This is a disrespectful judgement.

So what if she was his first choice. You were his BEST choice.

You are just bound and determined to find ways to make yourself less arent you?


This again dear, is in your head.

One of the most valuable lessons I learned was that "What other people think of me is none of my business."

Your marriage is none of her business. What she thinks about you or your marriage is none of your business.

Besides.

Patriot did something to be ashamed of.

You did not.

Isolation from others because you are afraid of what people think is harmful and hurtful to you. Why are you punishing yourself for what Patriot did?

I think you can hold your head very high.

Now, I'm off to dinner, will check back in if I don't get too lost in this city! (I wandered around lost for hours the first time I was here, I am always careful now!)

BrambleRose,

I hope you are having a great time in Switzerland, even if it is a business trip.



I do seem to be bound and determined. I don't know why that is. I guess I look for ways or reasons that someone thinks I might be less than. If I don't find any, then that means I'm okay, but if I do...well, I usually do. It's not so much that I feel I have to be perfect, but if someone else takes an action that I could perceive as them thinking I am not worthy, then I feel unworthy.

I also wish I could stop making disrespectful judgements. I didn't realize that was one. I just thought it was my opinion. Where do you draw the line between the two?


Because I think it was because I wasn't good enough. I am afraid for people to know that.



I don't. I am very ashamed that I am in this situation - for many reasons. I listed one above. Another is that I have made such bad choices in men. I'm not saying that Patriot is a bad choice, but we did not get married under your ideal circumstances.

At that point, I really thought I had my crap together FINALLY! I started out with nothing - a single mother at 18 on welfare, which was a pretty big awakening considering the very sheltered and financially privileged life I had led up to that time.

I made poor choices in relationships and in life that caused my daughter, and the son who came two years later, so much turmoil and grief. Slowly, personally and professionally, I became more self-aware and more responsible until I thought I had arrived at a place where I was at least somewhat normal, and a little wiser for the wear.

I worked hard to become a responsible mother, and a successful business owner. I also worked hard to be a good person and to grow and learn from my mistakes. I think my parents were actually proud of my success, and that I had finally found a man that they were very proud to have as a son-in-law. It was nice, for a time, to not always be the screwed up one.

I would have/still would do anything to keep from going back to that place, or having anyone say "Well, there goes Frozen again...some things never change. Too bad she has to drag her children along with her in her screwed-up life."

Well I guess that means I'm not good enough either. My husband cheated.... geezzzzeeee ... all this time I thought I was good enough ... now come to find out ....

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<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

we are both good enough you idiot <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />!

I didn't say that the reason someone cheats is because their partner isn't good enough. I said that was the reason it happened to me. Logically, I am sure this is not true. However, on an emotional level, I suspect I think that it's very true.

Also, that saying that my mother always taught me about if one person tells you that you have a tail...

If all the actions of several people (all the major relationships in my life) are telling me that there is something wrong with me and that I am completely expendable and replaceable, I figured I should turn around and see if I really did have a tail.

Dear dear Froz.

Ditto Pepperbabe. I guess I'm 'not enough' too. <SNORT>

When your self-worth and SELF LOVE is based on what other people think....you will never ever match up.

This is why, what "they" think is absolutely NONE of your business. You can't control it, and thinking/worrying about it is a poison to your soul.

"They" don't have to live your life.

You have to look at yourself in the mirror every single day of your life. YOU have to live with YOU and you can't get away. So don'tcha think just MAYBE what you think about you is more important? Don'cha think that MAYBE you should make your decisions based on what YOU think is good for YOU rather than what other people think is good for you?

Why are "they" more knowledable about how to live your life than you are?

Stop living your life to please other people, and start living it to please you.

Priorities needs some adjusting hun! This is why I told you to get up every morning and say I LOVE YOU to yourself in the mirror.

How do you stop making judgements about Patriot?

Stop making up your own ideas about what he thinks and why.

UNLESS he says to you: Hey Hunny, I just married you cuz Cinnomon turned me down and you were just the runner up for the wife position - then you better not think it darn it.

He undoubtably considers you his BEST choice, or he wouldnt be there with you every day.

So, that means you are making up tall tales in your head, that suit YOUR version of reality...the version where you look constantly for affirmation of your belief that you realy aren't enough.

This goes back to what both Pepperband and I had said to you earlier...that your choice in men had more to do with what you believed about yourself and what you "really" deserve. In your mind, in your deepest darkest corners of your soul, a tape plays in your mind that says you just don't deserve a man who treats you well.

Proof of that is now you have a man who is willing to do so, and you just won't let him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />