Go to a grocery store together

for about 15 minutes select items for you cart together (the object is to fill the cart in 15 minutes)

only items that you are both enthusiastic about buying get to go into the cart

this is "pretend" buying and is only for the purpose of practice POJA ~~ buy your actual groceries your usual way another time~~

Harley recommends this exercise so you can practice making decisions without serious consequences

if either of you wants to place an item in the cart that the other is not enthusiastic about ...negotiate with your partner to try to create enthusiasm

not allowed:

demands
disrespect
anger

be sure to remain cheerful as you discuss each item

you may find that a test of an item's value to the reluctant partner will often have favorable results ... as in : "try it, you'll like it"

but if the trial offer fails to convince, accept defeat graciously

avoid making bargains that lets you have one item that your partner doesn't like in exchange for your partner having an item you don't like

make sure that each item is chosen with enthusiastic agreement, or it dosen't end up in the cart

~~~ this is not the day you actually do your grocery shipping ~~~~

if you fail to fill the cart in 15 minutes ... put everything back and try again another day

the eventual filling of the cart symbolizes the compatable lifestyle that you will build together by following the rules of POJA

this may take several visits to complete the task in the 15 minutes allowed ... but you will have already learned some of the items you are both enthusiastic about from your first test run ... and you build from there with each POJA effort

I don't understand this exercise.

It would seem to me that you would need to negotiate for something that you either wanted or didn't want.

I really don't care what he buys from the grocery store. I don't think he really cares what I want from the store, either.

It sounds like we would both be walking up and down the aisles, saying...

Froz: I want this item
Patriot: Okay
Patriot: I think I want this item
Froz: Okay

Am I supposed to make up some reason why I don't want to get a particular item?

Sorry I'm so dense, but I'm just not getting it.

You are not dense, froz. I thought the exact same thing when I read it. I would have to pretend like I care, cause it really wouldn't matter to me. And I know H wouldn't care...he won't even tell me the big stuff he cares about, I know that even if he cared about groceries, he wouldn't say.

$100 bottle of Dom Perignon...
$240 2oz Beluga caviar
$95 roll of filet mignon
$78 7oz black summer truffles


hmmmmm, wonder if that is what I'm negotiating over?

how about the idea that one brand tastes better than the other? maybe one is more expensive. those are things that can be negotiated.

I have a problem. It is embarrassing and I can't believe I am going to say this. This morning, I was trying to have sex with my wife. After a few minutes, I ask what is wrong, because she is not being herself. She says, "I thought this is the way you like it" meaning the way OW did it. Then she repeats a line that I told her OW would use.

I told her this information because she asked. How we did things, what was said and so on. The truth I had been half-hiding because it was not safe and I did not trust her to be able to handle the evils I was a part of.

I have no idea how to be supportive right now. I was stunned this morning. I did not know what to do. What do you do? It is a fact that I am a FWS. Can't change that. I understand that she is hurt from this. Hurt to hear the things that were done. Things that were said. It was a filthy A, period.

How do I support her? How do I provide safety for her when I am so shocked by the remarks and the usage of information in such a fashion? Like she was 'trying' to be OW because that is what I want.

It is not what I want. Not now. Not ever. I do not want OW. I don't even want to see her across a crowded parking lot. I certainly don't want my wife trying to 'act' like her.

I want to say I am not trying to get my wife in trouble around her. I want to know what to do to support her. How do I approach this? What can I say? What can I do? I was totally not prepared for this, so please help me do the right things.

thanks

I give up <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

I read the above and I was thinking, here is wife who listened to what she thought a husband wanted and was trying to please him.

Then I heard a husband who is reminded of the past and is repulsed by the reminder of his actions.

A thoughtful wife, reminders of the past......

Patriot this is something you take time later and talk with froz about. And it kindly with her. In her attempt, she was trying to be what she thought you wanted. Her mistake and YOUR mistake is there needs to be more discussion on what you do want. Man a wife that wants to do that for her husband, if you could open up and talk and she would listen.......just imagine.

Reminds me of what my Grandfather used to say...

There is none so blind as those that refuse to see.

committed

P.S. Pep, just wanted to tell you that your "vessel" analogy a few months back lead me to places that I never thought of before. Thank you for it.

why? I need help and ideas. She is just human and very hurt. She feels rejected all the time. She is just human.

I don't even know how to interpret your remark. Are you serious? Like this is some failing of hers? She is hurt after a LONG line of hurt in life.

does this chaos ever stop??

I read the above and I was thinking, here is wife who listened to what she thought a husband wanted and was trying to please him.

Oh my...and here I was thinking that it was a way of zinging him. Seems that his fears of telling all were founded.

Just goes to show how people see things differently.

committed

My ideas are too small <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

CALL THE HARLEYS

Pat, it is not unusal for the BS to try to "replace" the OP because they think that is what the WS wanted. You really do need to have a gentle, open conversation with Froz about what your wants and needs are as well as how evil and vile you view your R with the XOW. Please be sure to reassure her that how you two make love is pleasing to you.

I thought that Pep was talking about the grocery thing when she said that she gives up!

I wasn't sure whether froz was being sarcastic or not. That was hard to tell from what Pat said. I agree with Askme though, if she was trying to please, well Pat, Open up and froz, Listen!! It sounds simple, although I know it's not. You guys could have it so good.



Ask, You must not shop anywhere near the same places I shop! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You know, its the messages you are playing your heads. Froz is dealing with fear..terror, and so her terror is because she isn't sure Patriot is opening up to her, she takes what he has said about the OW and applies it to her life trying to please him. So the message in her head was if he enjoyed it with the OW, he will enjoy with me.

Patriot was playing the message, I told Froz my intimate feelings about the OW they are now reminders of my affair and she used them, how dare her.

Actually the inbetween communication should have been, Patriot was that something you were looking for from me? And that would be a difficult question to answer, and a difficult one to hear.....but what an intimacy builder! Learning to be that open and honest would move you two so close and it's apparent that is possible.

Froz ~ it is what is the differences in you, what is uniquely YOU is what Patriot loves.

If I were to start acting like my husband's OW - he'd drop me like a hot potato.

(((hugs))) That was an unloving gesture to you, hun, don't ever do that to you again!!

Pat ~ it really helped me alot ~ when my husband told me that what he missed and loved about me was that I was real and totally different than OW. The OW in our case, had probably about 10 grand of plastic surgery done while she was trying to hang on to my husband. I remember him wrapping his arms around me early on and telling me just how sexy that 'real' was - sagging body and all. It truely helped me get over some of my fear of not being 'enough'.

And Froz hun, don't tell me for even a second you and Pat would get nothing over POJA in a grocery store.

You have stated several times how well you shop, how organized, and how you know EXACTLY how to do it.

You mean to tell me you have zero emotional attachment to grocery items picked your way?

Turn over grocery shopping to Pat for a month and then tell me how you have no problem with his shoppin! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

She is more than enough. My wife has a great body. She has a great personality. She is funny and sarcastic. She has depth and honesty. She has every GOOD quality a man could want.

I didn't see it before because I had problems of my own. Hurt in relationships. I don't trust people to be able to deal with the truth. I have made a huge mistake.

We watched Titanic last night. How ******* fitting is that. I am not giving up, but I have never dealt with something so difficult in my life.

sometimes the world feels like it is closing in on me.

I can't get away from work and she is sitting at home. alone. with all this pain. I worry all the time.

wtf happened to me?

This is big issue we deal with in our sexual addiction group. Most of the time the lack of trust is due to imagined issues in the mind. One dog takes a bite at you as a child and for the rest of your life you don't trust dogs. A single issue can build up imagines issues in the mind that lead to mistrust. Take for instance the issue this morning. I think it was a genuine attempt to be loving, misguided, but genuine. But in your mind Patriot I'm sure your mind went to mistrust that your confidence was betrayed. You need to stop and examine the messages you are playing in head....most of them are built off of past experiences which create a false reality in your mind. Stop and ask what is really going on. Is a wife making love to you trying to hurt you? Wouldn't you think that would be degrading to her to do so? If you stop and examine the reality for a moment you realize the message in your mind doesn't match the truth of the moment.

I do not think she did it out of a desire to please me. Misguided or not, I have made no secret that I do not want to be with OW and that merely seeing her across the mall or something is unwanted. I never want to see her again. I certainly don't want anything that is like her.

Did you discuss it with Froz? Maybe in her mind she was trying to please and in your mind she wasn't. Two people coming from two different emotional realities.

Talk with her lovingly and patiently and you might be surprised.