I must admit it is a bit of a shock to read about a sexual encounter between myself and my husband in a public forum.

Does everyone wish to know what position we were in, too?


committed -

I don't know what the source is of your obvious dislike, disdain, or disapproval of me, nor do I care.

If you have something helpful to say - say it. However, if your intent is to continue to hop on here and take stabs at me, or criticize me...let me assure you I've got it covered. I can do that all by myself. No assistance is needed from you, where that is concerned. It's taken care of.

Pep -

Your ideas aren't too small. My problems are just too large.

JL -

They don't carry that stuff where I shop, either.

BR -



Did he ever try to 'coach' you to do something OW did, and lie to you when you asked if he was requesting it because it was something she did?

I find that to be a confusing mixed message. He doesn't want me to act like her as long I am aware I am doing it. If I don't know - that's acceptable.



I didn't say that. I was just trying to understand the exercise.



I have zero attachment to grocery items, nor how they are picked.

I do it the way I do it in order to be efficient. If he wants to do it, he can do it any way he cares to.

I don't care about groceries. I don't care about what we have for dinner. I don't care about his running shoes. I don't care whether Patriot has a better job or a better education - his job status and current education level are fine with me. I don't care what we do next week, much less next year. I don't care if we have a secure financial future.

I care about right this minute.

I care about survival and safety.

I should not have let him hope I could do more than I could. I have too many issues to even function in a relationship. My feeble attempts to do so are only making things worse.

I care that he feels this way:



AskMe -

Patriot's right. It was not done out of a desire to please him. It was done because I wanted to distance myself from him because I felt rejected. So, I guess committedandlovingit was right - I don't deserve honesty.

I must admit it is a bit of a shock to read about a sexual encounter between myself and my husband in a public forum.

Does everyone wish to know what position we were in, too?

It is not like we were peeking in your window...patriot opened the door and people are just responding to him. I don't see where anyone is asking anything as intrusive as that.

I have no disdain, dislike, nor disapproval of you. I must admit that I have a intolerance for people who *seemingly* refuse to see what is blatantly placed in front of them. It seems that you continuously want to blame it on being a slow learner and when someone points you in the right direction you want to look around the very thing they are pointing at.

So, it would be best if I just simply remove myself from your postings and stumblings about. My words serve no purpose other than to distract your from your task at hand, which is to stop what you are doing because it is not working.

Respectfully,

committed

Froz, all I see is the words of someone hurting.....what you deserve and what you received are two different things. You didn't deserve the pain you feel.

I wasn't aware the door or the window were open, so forgive me if I feel a bit shocked.

As for what anyone is asking...it was sarcasm. You're familiar with it.


Okay, so we'll call it intolerance if that is your wish.

Either way, you obviously do not understand me or you wouldn't have such an intolerance for me.

What you see at blatantly refusing is not the case at all. You simply don't understand, perhaps because you are blatantly refusing to listen.

AskMe -

This is what happened.

Yesterday Patriot said that he couldn't wait to get home from work and talk to me.

As soon as he got home, we went to the store. He was looking at men's stuff. I didn't want to look at men's stuff, so I went to look at women's stuff. If Patriot wanted me to stay by his side, he would have asked - since we are radically honest and open now.

I am fine with looking at women's stuff. Patriot comes to find me and he has a pair of running shoes that he wants to purchase. I asked him what was wrong with the running shoes he has (they are fairly new). He immediately sets the shoes down and doesn't want to purchase them any more.

So, I have to allow him to feel safe to communicate, right? I tell him that I have no problem at all with his purchasing the shoes. I asked him for the exact information I wanted to know, which was why he didn't like the shoes he had.

He said they weren't completely comfortable. That was all I wanted to know. He was indecisive about the shoes after that. I told him it was simple...I didn't have a problem with his purchase. If he wanted the shoes and he didn't have a problem with purchasing them, then he should feel free to get them.

I said all of this in a soft voice, in a "hey, let's just work on our communication skills here" kind of way.

In the car, we explored it. I told him that I didn't like that he assumed that I asked my question because I did not approve of his purchase. I have NEVER, NOT ONE TIME shown any disapproval over anything he wanted to spend money on. All he has to do is want it and that's reason enough for me, so it's not as if I've trained him to respond this way.

I asked the question because I truly wanted to know what was wrong with his current running shoes.

I don't understand why he put the shoes back. I don't understand why, if he was thinking I was concerned about the cost, he didn't just ask me if I was concerned with it...you know, negotiate, both being honest about what we want. Instead, he continues to sacrifice, which isn't honesty and openness and prevents me from meeting his needs.

He also told me in the car that he was worried, when I walked off to look at women's stuff, that I would think that he didn't want to spend time with me.

I don't understand this either. I was the one who walked away. If he was worried about what I was thinking, why couldn't he just ask me?

I told him that I was fine with looking at different things or I wouldn't have walked away. I asked him if he was fine with me walking away. He said that he wasn't. He would have liked for me to stay and look with him.

So, now he has not only decided he would react based on what he thought I might be thinking instead of asking me, he also didn't ask me for something he wanted.

We still weren't fighting. It wasn't a heated discussion.

But then we arrived home, and it was no longer discussed. I watched a movie and he sat next to me for awhile...not discussing - avoiding.

He had also mentioned in the car that he had some homework he wanted to get done when we got home.

I didn't know he had homework he wanted to get done. I was still thinking he was dying to get home from work to talk to me, yet here he is...not talking to me.

I felt rejected, unsafe, distant, and like I never really know exactly what it is I'm dealing with, askew, ungrounded, distrustful and I went to sleep.

This morning, immediately upon awakening, he wants to have sex. I guess we are ignoring everything that happened the night before. I feel used - like maybe I am good enough to have sex with, but not good enough to be honest and open with, and not good enough to provide the safety of knowing what is really there, not good enough to be really intimate with.

I'm also thinking if he will do this about running shoes, he'll definitely do it about something more significant. I was uncomfortable.

So I made him uncomfortable.

I told you thaat I was bothered about spending the money. I was obsessing over it. I told you that.

Avoiding? You didn't say anything either. I just wanted to look something up for a minute on the homework.

sorry. I guess I shouldn't be talking to you on a forum.

Okay, Everybody take what I say with a grain of salt, or even the whole shaker...

I see Pat and froz both trying. I see words they say taken in the wrong context when those words are typed (we all do that or have that done to us sometimes). It has seemed to me that a lot of poeple are pretty hard on froz, when if Pat wasn't here, at MB, we might see things totally different. Maybe froz needs a good (or bad) kick in the butt sometimes, but it seems as if everyone really thinks that froz is the one holding back recovery...Maybe somewhat this is true, but we only see what we are shown here. Maybe froz needs not to be rushed. And not just because of her painful past, although maybe she needs some "extra" time. But I don't like the fact that froz is called out "because"of her past. (That is a personal trigger for me and I feel I should jump to my "sister's" defense. Probably my bad. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />)

I cannot remember how long these guys have been in recovery but maybe everybody is rushing froz. So she made a sarcastic remark because she felt a trigger, I don't see that as being the big deal that Pat is making it. Of course I wasn't sure how to read it either at first and I asked if it was sarcasm. Other than posting about it here before you asked her, how did you handle it Pat?

froz has been hurt beyond your (and her) wildest nightmares, Pat. And while I know that you acknowledge this, these triggers are going to happen.

And even though you make it no secret that you do not want the OW or to be anywhere near her, Pat, at one time you did choose her above froz, at least that is the way froz sees and feels it. And I heard Dr. Harley say yesterday on his radio program that , if she feels it that strongly, that makes it real enough.



Did he really do this, froz? I can see why you would be hurt and angry.

You know, I really like Pat, and maybe I just tend to side with froz cause I am a woman, or cause Pat reminds me a little of my CA H (but you seem much better,Pat, of course you're not my H)...I just always have seen MB as a great concept, but I can't imagine a life where no spouse ever made any LBs or AO..or used sarcasm (my personal favorite). Which reminds me, froz, no I don't want to know your postion, unless it's something I can learn from <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />!! I laughed when I read that remark,sarcasm or not - funny. And a perfectly normal response (to me) for someone surprised when reading about their own sexual encounter. But no worries, it doesn't shock, offend, or sting my delicate senses to read about that stuff. I find it great when people can be open about it.

And Pep is right (of course), Call the Harleys. Have you tried them or is it too expensive? I forget, are you guys in MC, or both in IC or anything?

jls

I know that some might take offense at my post, even if I ask them ot not do so. So sorry if I offended anyone, I wasn't attacking anyone, just my $0.02 (maybe it's not worth all that even).

Patriot believe it or not I have been on that same shopping trip, picked up that same pair of shoes, heard that same comment about why do I need the shoes, and put the shoes back up. All because I was obcessing over money and I don't even control the money in the house. I hand mine all over to the wife and she worries about it. In my mind I perceived something that wasn't there. It it possible in your worry about money it Froz's comment triggered something else emotionally in your mind? I know it did for me when my wife asked me the question.

Sorry, I type slow, and try to weigh my words, so that response did not in any way pertain to the "running shoes" incident.

So, Pat, did you ever talk to froz about whatever it was that you couldn't wait to get home for?

Froz, when you are hurting, it doesn't help to hurt the other person back, it just causes more pain. It reinfects the wound and keeps it from healing.

I wish both of you could just sit back and know that each is feeling a different pain. You both need comforting, but you are having a hard time comforting each other because you both are in pain. Can you think about taking a time out from life for a while and just comfort each other for a while. Just understand that each other is hurting differently, accept it, and let each other hurt and comfort the other. Just hug and cry on each other a while.

I couldn't wait to get home to be with her. Yesterdays discussions were happy-sounding and nice. She sounded positive. If she states that she was not any of these things yesterday, she acted like it and that is what I thought I was dealing with. As it got closer to the time when I was coming home, she started to worry about what I was doing and get anxious. This is a common occurance now. Happy when I am away. Not when I am home becuase I am in her face now.

Anyway, by the time I got home, the distance was obvious. We went to the clothing store and little by little my confidence was chipped away that we would have a decent evening. And then I didn't know what to do.

I love her so much and I can't get her to feel it.

this is killing me.



by hiding the truth, I enabled myself to do very evil things. Now that they are out, she can't deal with it. What I mean by that is because I 'knew' no one would know, I did very evil things. Horrible. Now that I have to be honest about these things, the utter shock at what I was capable of is a nightmare.

i hurt so badly. i feel sick.

well, we did that over a 4wheeler. He said that he wanted a 4wheeler but they were very expensive. I asked if we could find a used one, NOT because I was worried about money because he was. And he got angry and said he just wouldn't get one then, Eventually we one..and I dont' resent it at all. As a matter of fact, I use it more often (for farm work).

What any of us do in out sinful state shocks anyone. Pat are you trying to deal with Froz's stuff? Let her stuff go. You said she can't deal with it, don't worry if she can or can't deal with it. Stop worrying about your evil and what you did. Hey, you want to match evil.....I bet you can't match mine. I think you would be a powdered donut to me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Seriously, focus on the healing for you. Let Froz focus on her healing and each of you let go of the other. You are killing the other trying to figure out what is going on in each other's brain.


P.S. I care about you all. Even though I don't know you, I can feel your pain in your words.

You also told me that you were worried about what I was thinking, and that you were worried I was feeling rejected because we were shopping separately, and that you would have rather me shopped with you.

If I wouldn't have pried, I would know none of those things right now. What else is there that I forgot to pry about?

I didn't discuss it with you after we got home. I get tired of prying it out of you. I would really rather just be able to relax and know that you will provide it, even if I don't think to ask. It's very stressful, running around trying to figure out what's really going on all the time. My energies would probably be better spent on healing. I am too busy trying to protect myself from further damage.

Why does it feel like you hide from me? It feels like rejection and it hurts - a bunch. It feels like your protection is more important. If it is a matter of protecting you first, leaving me completely unprotected, on the off-chance that maybe it will be safe for me in the end - I won't do it. I'm way too scared.


That's okay. It's better than not talking at all. Besides, you already told them about our sex life. What do we have left to hide? Maybe we should tell them which position. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hey sex addicts like me always want to know that kind of stuff!!! Just kidding....I try to avoid that stuff these days. It gets my mind going places it shouldn't.

You know one thing about writing out thoughts is sometimes you find out more than you do by talking. Have you thought about leaving notes to each other?

That is not true. I told you I felt scared and insecure and I THEN wanted to know where you were - not the other way around. I also told you that I didn't know why I was feeling that way, but it wasn't about anything you did or didn't do. You asked me if it was because I was anxious about you coming home. I said no. That was the truth.



I wasn't distant. I felt scared and insecure and I asked you for exactly what I needed, remember? I told you that I needed your help to distract me from it. I reassured you again that it wasn't your fault.



I was wrong.

Sometimes it does feel like it helps. If I reject him, then he can't reject me.

JL -



Yes, he really did that. It did hurt. It hurt worse that he tricked me into doing it by telling me that it wasn't because she did it that way.

I have felt tricked on other occassions, when I asked him if I could feel "safe" to do something sexually (something he didn't share with her) and he told me it was safe - only to find out months later that he lied.

It's been a year. This Saturday is D-Day anniversary day.
I just last week got a details discussion out of him. It was pretty brief.

I have gotten so many different stories and contradictions that I don't know what is real. So yes, I am scared.

I know that I make mistakes. I don't expect him to be perfect. I know I have done things to slow Recovery for us - things like blaming him for the way I feel, blaming him for all of my past hurt. I initially did think that all of my hurt was about him. I see that it isn't now.

I know that I have lashed out at him before.

Yeah, I think sometimes people here get frustrated with me. Maybe they have the impression that I am over here bashing him all the time, thwarting all his hard efforts, while poor Patriot is left quivering in the corner.

I can assure you that's not true. I will admit to doing more than my fair share of LB's, but most of the time I am kind, affectionate, and loving towards him.

Maybe they get frustrated because they see how many other WS's are still engaging in their A's, or refusing to take responsibility or other things like that, and they hear Patriot and how hard he is trying (and I'm not denying that he is trying - I know he is), and I end up sounding ungrateful. I am grateful. There is one thing he hasn't waffled on, and that is his commitment. I'm very grateful for that, and also for the efforts he makes.

I am much more verbal than Patriot is. I post more often and am very open about how I feel. There are a lot of times that his words don't match his actions. People hear his words, but they don't see his actions. They see me get on here and post about his actions after the fact, and maybe that lends to the situation looking like I am bashing him all the time.

Or maybe I am just a mean, stubborn, destructive person.

Either way, I very much appreciate your understanding. I hate feeling misunderstood. Thanks for that.

It's been 2 1/2 years for me and my wife occasionally goes into a panic when she hasn't heard from me. I might just be in a prolonged series of meetings at work, but to her it's a possibility I have escaped from work to possibly fall back into my old habits. For her it's a moment of real terror until she sees the callerid from work and then she knows where I am. For the BS the terror lasts, and it's real and hard to overcome at times. And I have learned patience, and understanding and to say I'm sorry, I should have called to let you know where I was. And they she settles down and says it's ok, she was just wound up not knowing where I was.

Occasionally I respond back the wrong way. Like this past week, it's been difficult for me. My college age daughter had to be put into the hospital for a psychotic breakdown. Mainly it was due to her ADD medication and pot she smoked trying to medicate emotions. She was molested as a child by my father-in-law. And even though my daughter has been through years of counseling she is still in pain over what happened. How do you reconcile a loving grandfather with years of molestation? She never has been able to.

And so during this breakdown, my wife and I took two paths emotionally. My wife took a path trying to protect her emotions due to my affairs and the hurt she has felt from her father for what he did to our daughter and our daughters continued desire to make wrong choices. For me I was emotionally trying to protect our daughter and I was striking out in anger once again at my father-in-law, but using the wife as the person to sound my anger at. I had to finally say, we have the same problem, our daughter who is hurting, but we are facing the pain totally different. We had to recognize that each of us felt different about the pain and how we were handling it. We had to learn to comfort the other even though neither of us could accept the others pain. We had to agree to disagree, but agree that our daughter's care came first.

There are many mistakes to be made along the way in recovery. But you don't want to keep hurting the other. I realized I hurt my wife when I lashed out at her and I had to stop and apologize. I knew immediately what I had done and why I did it. I let my fear take over and I wanted control back and it was the best way I could interrupt the moment. It was definitely a LB.

And I'm confused between Froz and Pat, Pat is suppose to be the extrovert and Froz the introvert, but you two seem to play the reversed roles when you are writing. Wait....I'm an introvert too...anybody guess that? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

AskMe,

I have a lot to say about your last post.

First, I am an introvert. Patriot is an extrovert. It is easier for me, probably because I am female, to express my emotions than it is for Patriot to do so. I am more emotional and it is often easier for me to identify my emotions than it is for him.

It also much easier for me to be a little more extroverted when I am writing. I am much more comfortable expressing myself to people in that manner than in person.

If we all actually met in a real room, instead of a virtual one...I would respond by being quiet and only speaking when spoken to until I felt comfortable, if I ever did at all. I would then only do so in small groups of people. I would also be incredibly nervous. Whatever your mental picture is of me, I would be rather surprised if it were accurate.

Patriot, on the other hand, would respond by walking confidently into the room, approaching all of you and making jokes. He probably wouldn't be nervous at all. I was not exaggerating about his wit, humor, and intelligence, nor about his natural way of putting people at ease.

You'd probably be very surprised to see us interact in real life - with each other and with other people.

As far as accountability on Patriot's part goes...initially in Recovery this was not an easy habit for him to adjust to. He has made the adjustment to my satisfaction. There are times when he happens to be unavailable, but I don't expect him to be perfect and I am not angry anymore when he isn't perfect at it.

Yesterday, I was not worried about his being accountable. I was just feeling anxious and scared - all on my own - having nothing to do with him. I wanted to talk to him because I was having a moment and I find his voice to be reassuring. He was reachable. He was accountable.

He does an excellent job at being accountable now and I am completely satisfied, more than satisfied, with the way he does this. He has even once stopped at a pay phone at the side of the road, even though he was running late to class, because his cell phone was dead and he didn't want me to worry in case I tried to call him. So, if he forgets to turn his cell phone off silent mode after he has been in a meeting and I have tried to call him during this time, as was the case this past Saturday, I am completely understanding. That kind of thing happens.

I think it is wonderful that you and your wife were able to find a way to comfort the other, despite your different methods of handling your pain, in order to help your daughter.



I identify with this. I have made some improvements, but nowhere near what is an acceptable level for me because I truly don't want to hurt him and I don't want to cause damage to our marriage, nor do I want to hinder progress. Any tacticts you have discovered to deal with this situation that have been helpful to you would be greatly appreciated.

What I said this morning was snotty. For what it's worth (maybe nothing), the damage it caused was far greater than my intent. I was really surprised that he was so freaked out by it. It was still snotty and unneccessary. I'm not proud of it.



I am very saddened to hear this. I know exactly what it feels like to watch your innocent daughter struggle and hurt and act out over something so painful and unimaginable and not only not know what to do to help her, but to struggle with your own feelings of betrayal and of guilt for not "saving" her from it happening in the first place.

I don't know how much you've read of my past, but I have a daughter, almost 18, and a senior in high school. She was molested by my last husband, from the time she was 12 until she was 14, until she finally told me.

The aftermath of that was horrible for both of us. I was shocked. This man is not her father, and I felt guilty for even bringing him into her life. She had been acting out before she told me. I thought it was normal teenage stuff. After she told me, and he was gone pretty much instantly, her acting out became even worse. It was a nightmare. She snuck out. She ran away. She began cutting on her arms. She was literally flunking out of school. She was extremely suicidal. She isolated herself from her childhood friends because she felt different from them, and instead chose friends that made bad decisions.

There were times that I kept her out of school and made her go to work with me, or made her sleep with me because I was too afraid to let her out of my sight, for fear of what she would do to herself.

You said that your daughter has not been able to reconcile this.

You asked:

How do you reconcile a loving grandfather with years of molestation?

I'll tell you what my daughter's behavior is like now. She is bright, sunny, confident and ambitious. She makes straight A's. School has only been in session for three months and she has received postcards in the mail from two different teachers, commenting on what a wonderful person she is and what a pleasure it is to know her and to teach her. Where she was withdrawn before, she is now the Art Club President of her school.

I once had a conversation with her in which I shared with her how incredibly guilty I felt for bringing this man into her life, and for not knowing what was going on so I could protect her. She actually reassured me. She said "I'm not sorry. It was painful to go through, but I'm not sorry. All of my experiences - good and bad - have led me to be the person I am today, and I like who I am."

So I called her just now on her cell phone. I asked her your question...how do you reconcile that?

She said she just finally realized that no one could do it for her. She said that a good counselor helped. She had to go through a couple of crappy ones to find the right one, but she has a good one now. She also has a book and workbook that she said has been helpful. She didn't know the title offhand, but she said she would get it for me when she gets home. I'll let you know what it is.

I'm so sorry your family has had to deal with this painful situation, and I'm so sorry that your daughter is hurting so much. My heart and my prayers go out to you and your family.

Froz ~ I watched Dr. Phil today ~ talking to newlywed couples on the brink of divorce.

One couple had both had affairs, she before the ceremony, and he afterwards...

And Dr. Phil said to them about their decision to get married (to paraphrase):

Sometimes, its not about making the right decision...its about making the decision right.

Froz, thank you for any prayers. The molestation of my daughter went on from the age of 4 until the age of 12. My inlaws lived close by and my kids enjoyed going to their house. My father-in-law did fun things with them, it's what my daughter enjoyed about him. He played basketball, yard games, bb guns, boating, fishing, you name it, he did it with them. But for my daughter he had a dark side we didn't know about and there was a price to playing the games. The lesson she learned in life is "you play the game to get what you want". A sad lesson to learn and that is how she acts out, by playing along and being two people, one should be the person she was meant to be, and the other a rebellous person expressing her anger and covering it up. She has worked with counselors. I know she has done some workbooks, but if you have others I would appreciate whatever you can share.

The sad part is this also caused my sexual addiction to kick into high drive. My SA is triggered by high levels of anxiety. My father-in-law refused to admit his guilt for over a year. Instead he and my mother-in-law blamed me and said it must have been me and that my daughter was blaming him because obviously she couldn't blame me because she lived with me. It was twisted thinking on their part. The more the battle ensued between us, the more the tension grew between my wife and myself. I finally started using internet chat and reaching out to other women looking for compassion and sympathy for my situation. Then it became not only that, but also more sexual oriented and I started having affairs. In a two year period I had 18 physical affairs and around 30 envolvements with women. And my addiction was escalating. I felt out of control. I'm a Christian and it didn't match with my belief system, which fits really well with the addiction model. You fall into the trap of shame, which leads to more anxiety, which triggers the need to act out.

I can say God put an end to my affairs. On here I can't say how, but in one day I felt my freedom, my finances, my family, my job were all going to be taken from me. I broke down and even went to a mental hospital for the evening. The next day I was getting help at our church, I found a counselor and the problems that were there the day before somehow went away. All I can say is God put me to my knees and kept me there long enough to realize what I had done and it changed me. In my SA I was addicted even to "M" (you know the thing you do single handed) which robs you of intimacy with your wife. Even that desire disappeared and I haven't done it even once in 2 1/2 years.

I guess I wanted to say that part to say genuine changes can take place in a person. My wife still doesn't quite believe all the changes. She still worries I can fall back into old habits. And I understand those fears. It's why I do everything possible to reassure her. When she askes how do I know I won't, I remind her of the positive steps I have taken. I tell her about our counseling. I remind her that I participate every Monday in an accountability group. I remind her that I am accountable to others. And I even share the part about the "M". All of that shows her the change in me and settles her mind. She needs reminders and that is natural. And as time goes on she doesn't need the reminders as often.

When it comes to arguements, you know when you are in the midst of one. If you are like me, you feel it. It overwhelms me and I just feel it take over. That is when I have to call a time out. I have now learned to stop when I make the wrong comment. When I do that I know I am out of control. It is time to take a checkpoint and apologize. If I was really good I would have stopped before I said the wrong thing, but sometimes we slip. So when we do, at least stop, don't keep going and make it worst.

Another thing, if you know an arguement is hot, have an agreement that you can call a time out between the two of you. Have a word or phase you can say. A friend of mine just says TOO HOT and they quit arguing. They wait until later and then come back to discuss the issue. Sometimes you need to let the emotions get out of the picture.

Thank you for listening. Thank you for sharing your story. Thanks to the both of you for your willingness to share with others. I know the both of you hurt, but keep going and don't give up. Remember each of you is having their own pain and I'll be praying for you.