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I love it when you call me that! Heck, I love it when I AM that! I do have a couple of things I am struggling with personally that I am hoping someone can give me some insight with. Unfortunately, I have to go to work now. I have recently learned there is a mysterious connection between time and clocks (or something like that).
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Hey!!!!
How did I pass the 1,000th post mark without even noticing?
Nothing earth shattering seems to have happened. Do I not get a button, or even a "I survived a year past D-Day" t-shirt?
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I'll be glad to brand the number 1000 as a commemorative mark on you somewhere. It's the new lost cost way of doing things. And I'm only kidding......no hot pokers for me.
Happy New Year Frozzy
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Yikes! No branding for me!
I was hoping maybe for the Marriage Builders Board Game - the Home Edition.
Oh wait, I think I already have it...
LoveBusters
His Needs/Her Needs
Surviving An Affair
5 Steps to Romantic Love
Happy New Year to you, too, AskMe
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Hey Slushy, ever notice how many posts I have?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Faith
me: FWW/BS 52 H: FWH/BS 49
DS 30
DD 21
DS 15
OCDS 8
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Holy heck, FF!!!
That should earn you a coffee mug, at the very least!
btw, Slushy got a bit chilly. She's out for the day.
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Oh? Are we back to slighty frozen or hard as rock frozen? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Wanna talk? I have a couple minutes.
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me: FWW/BS 52 H: FWH/BS 49
DS 30
DD 21
DS 15
OCDS 8
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No big deal, really, just slightly frozen.
I am just frustrated. I discussed some of my obstacles with Patriot, as opposed to doing it here. I sent an e-mail about it to him yesterday, as that seems to be a much less confrontational method for him.
In the e-mail, I told him that I struggle with acceptance of the A because there is still so much that I don't know. I did not attack him at all in the e-mail.
He responded, but didn't really address anything specifically. A short time later, I called him from the store because I was picking something up for him and needed further instructions. He sounded really odd on the phone and I asked him if something was wrong. He sat there for a few minutes, before telling me that he was edgy about my e-mail. He said he was afraid that the positive way we've been interacting with each other lately was going to disappear as a result of talking about the A.
I reassured him in the e-mail a dozen times that I wasn't angry with him and that there would be no punishment, that I was just sharing with him how I felt. I told him the same on the phone.
He sent me an e-mail later in the afternoon, saying that he wanted to discuss the discomfort during our phone call when we both got home that evening. He wanted to go elephant hunting, I guess.
After we got home, he pretty much ignored me for the duration of the evening. I went to bed alone. Today, it's as if nothing happened.
I'm still not angry with him, and I understand and know that he is doing the best he can. I am still frustrated with the situation. This isn't easy for me, either, and he was the one who chose to have an A. If not for that, we wouldn't have an A to discuss.
Like I said, a little frustration, but I'll live.
Thanks for asking.
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I think the email way of discussing the infomation is good. I have done that with my wife before. It takes some of the emotion out of dialog. There can still be tension, but not as much as if you are sitting face to face.
For example the other morning my wife and I were in the car together and she asked me a question related back to all my affairs, which I always answer honestly when she asks. Well she asked something I had told her in the counselors office, but she either wasn't listening, or didn't hear due to the shock of the moment. Anyway when I told her she went off on me. I had to say, wait a minute. I have told you this before. I know it's hurtful and painful, but it's not fair for you to be cussing at me when I'm being honest about something I have told you before. It makes it really hard to open up and keep talking.
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Yes, that would be frustrating. Is there anything else you can do to reassure pat that you won't be angry when you get the details you are needing?
Faith
me: FWW/BS 52 H: FWH/BS 49
DS 30
DD 21
DS 15
OCDS 8
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I honestly don't know what else I could do. I am just guessing, but I don't think it really has anything to do with me or any fear of how I may react.
I think this is his issue and waging another guess, I'd say maybe the fear is based more on just facing something bad, in itself, or maybe fear of abandonment. I don't really know.
The more I think about it, the more frustrated I get because it seems like all along, throughout Recovery, I have had to endure things that were uncomfortable, so that he could be more comfortable. That seems rather backwards to me.
Why should things have to be harder for me so they can be easier for him? I didn't create this mess.
Sometimes it seems like there is a cap on Recovery and even intimacy for us. Everything seems to end up right back at this point and it does frustrate me.
The elephants are his - not mine. I have a very difficult time understanding conflict avoidance in a marriage. In my head I think, "If I can't talk about it, then I shouldn't do it". It actually makes me MORE uncomfortable for the distance to be present.
I am definitely not an elephant lover. It really irritates me when someone else invites them in, feeds them, and even breeds them in my living space. I want these stinking elephants gone.
Thanks,
Froz the Wild Huntress of Elephants
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I am definitely not an elephant lover. It really irritates me when someone else invites them in, feeds them, and even breeds them in my living space. I want these stinking elephants gone.
Thanks,
Froz the Wild Huntress of Elephants I like the way you put it!
Faith
me: FWW/BS 52 H: FWH/BS 49
DS 30
DD 21
DS 15
OCDS 8
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deleted
Last edited by frozen1229; 01/06/06 06:39 PM.
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OK froz, calm down. I am glad you got that out. First you need to remember that though this affects you this is really Patriot's problem. How about if you give him a deadline to get the facts together and give it to you all at once. Do you prefer a face to face or is email or a letter acceptable? What can you do to assure him that once you have the truth these back and forth sessions will be done and you can move forward?
Faith
me: FWW/BS 52 H: FWH/BS 49
DS 30
DD 21
DS 15
OCDS 8
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Hey Frozen,
I looked back and did find that I had sent some of your posts to my STBX last year. Just wanted to let you know, and congratulations on your 1000+ posts. whew
Last edited by Tom Joad; 01/06/06 06:49 PM.
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I walk the recovery path too, ... but I walk alone.
HOW 'BOUT THEM STEELERS!
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I've finally realized now, that you just have to keep breathing. Tomorrow the sun will rise, and who knows what the tide will bring. Tom Hanks (Castaway, 2000)
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Yikes, Tom,
I didn't know you were going to quote me...I had intended to delete my venting, so as not to LB or have Patriot read something I said that was the "un-edited version". I had hoped to edit the really rude parts out so I could present him with a version that was honest, but a little more rational and devoid of LB's.
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Was that a "rumplestilskin"?
.
I walk the recovery path too, ... but I walk alone.
HOW 'BOUT THEM STEELERS!
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I've finally realized now, that you just have to keep breathing. Tomorrow the sun will rise, and who knows what the tide will bring. Tom Hanks (Castaway, 2000)
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I should have scrolled down...
RUMPLESTILSKIN!!!!!
I saved your post for reading later this evening.
He is home now. Thank you!
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FF, I've been studying the heck out of the Buyer/Renter thread. I don't know why I didn't see your suggestion before. I was surprised to see the bump by you on it. I learned a thing or two, but I'm more confused than before. I kept changing my mind..."I'm a Buyer. No! I'm a renter!"...that kind of thing. Some of the highlights - Buyer is willing to demonstrate an extraordinary sense of care by making permanent changes in his or her own behavior and lifestyle to make the romantic relationship mutually fulfilling. Solutions to problems are long-term solutions and must work well for both partners because the romantic relationship is viewed as exclusive and permanent. It's like a person who buys a house for life with a willingness to make repairs that accomodate changing needs, painting the walls, installing new carper, replacing the roof, and even doing some remodeling so that it can be comfortable and useful In the past, I think I have been a Buyer in Giver mode. I was willing to do all that remodeling single-handedly so he could take it easy in his La-Z-Boy (Freeloader in Taking mode). Harley says that the Buyer/Buyer agreement CAN BE restored when the affair has finally ended.
BUT .... you ~knew~ there was gonna be a but didn't you?
this does not usually work if the unfaithful partner was NEVER a Buyer That scares me. I don't know if that applies to us or not. yes... because of the Renter's tendency to think that sacrifice is good for the relationship ... which is bullocky Here I start to think that after D-Day, Patriot turned into a Renter. just for fun ... what is your 'sign' ? I'm sure it will come as no shock that I am a Capricorn. You know...the GOAT . So when can a buyer sell or get their $$ back? Or is this a non-refundable purchase? I must have missed the answer to that question. " In fact your Giver is willing to see YOU suffer even to the point of deep depression as long as you continue to care about others.
Your Taker is willing to see others suffer if it means you are happy or are prevented from suffering. "
"Because each of them ignores someone's feelings, they are both shortsighted. They fail to understand that you and others should be cared for and protected simultaneously, so that no one suffers"
If you are willing to sacrifice your needs for the relationship, you are no longer a Buyer. This is interesting stuff. This is where I start to think maybe I am a Renter. {{Pep}} You are one heck of a friend and a very patient lady. I am quite a block head
I don't reach out to block heads ... too annoying This is where I start to think I am a block head. The Buyers approach to problem solving.
Byers don't try to control each other.
Buyers don't make demands.
Buyers don't show disrespect or lose their temper.
They solve their problems by negotiating solutions that are win/win. This is where I am positive I am not a Buyer. You are dependent when what you recive is not balanced by what you give in return.
How can we create a dependent spouse? When we are in the early/Renter romantic stages of a relationship, we tend to give and give and give ~~~> sacrifical giving. And all that giving creates a DEPENDENCY in our spouse. All that giving creates EXPECTATIONS that are unrealistic in a long-term romantic relationship.
Giving without wanting anything in return ~~~> the Giver is running wild and unchecked.
What does that create in the other spouse? Their Taker is given free reign. "gimme gimme gimme"
This sets up opportunity for abusive relationships where one spouse is giver heavy and the other is Taker heavy.
No balance. No give-take. The GIVER is the one who creates this ... by sacrificing and essentially training their spouses' Taker that there are no limits to how much sacrificing their spouse might submit to.
Control Once you reach a point where you have your spouse depending on you , you are now in a position to control your spouse.
While our Giver sets up dependency by encouraging us to give unconditionally, our Taker has no such generous motives.
Our Taker will not be denied ! Now that your spouse is dependant on you, your Taker wants to control what the spouse must do in order to payback for all the sacrificing !!!
So if my Giver-gone-wild has set up my spouse to become dependant on me ... what happends to my Taker side? My Taker begins to feel that this situation is terribly unfair, and starts to grumble and complain ... and then make demands, start fights and generally tries to control my spouse... and I might even run off and have an affair "Because I have done so much for this marriage and never get anything in return ... it's MY TURN to do something just for me" Me, except for the run off and have the affair part. Maybe just run off. "How do you feel about what I would like to do?"
Decisions are to be made considering each other's feelings.
POJA forces you to be considerate especially when you don't feel like it
OK .... you've asked THE question "How would you feel about ...."
and this gets negotiation started ... and you realize the goal is enthusiastic agreement ... how do you arrive at that goal? Hmmm...Every time I think we are practicing POJA, I learn that we are not. Why does POJA continue to elude us? I think I learn the answer later in Pep's thread. I'll get back to that. I shall now go through all the posts on this site and identify the members & their spouses as Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders. A notable and very funny comment made by Mulan. It cracked me up (until it occurred to me that she might have taken a look at some of my posts...yikes). Resist one type of solution that your Giver and Taker may suggest --- the I'll let you do what you want this time if you let me do what I want next time solution <~~~ That's the RENTER'S SOLUTION that encourages you to alternate sacrificing for each other. aka "I'll let you do what you want this time if you pay attention to me." MY error in POJA. Radical Honesty pretty much knocks conflict avoiders out !!!
.... now to apply it to POJA .... hmmmmm
emotional honesty ... I don't think a couple can be successful in POJA negotiations without emotional honesty.
How can one POJA with an emotionally dishonest partner?
.... lest we forget ... a conflict avoider is emotionally dishonest ...
REMEMBER THE QUESTION THAT OPENS POJA
How would you feel about this ..... Patriot's stumbling block to POJA. Do you think conflict avoidance ie emotional dishonesty sets the stage for other levels of dishonesty in a person? The answer, from the book Conflict Avoiders and the Women Who Love Them (joking), the answer is YES! YES! YES! So...I remain stumped (in true Goat-like fashion). I will say that I think Patriot is rapidly moving up the ranks towards Buyer. He is willing to change EVERYTHING, and do any remodeling he can and even some he can't. I just don't understand why. Sometimes I think that our situation has too many elements about it that are just too complex.
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On a positive note, I've just learned that Patriot and I are compatible, according to the Chinese Zodiac...me being a Rooster and he being an Ox!
Yay!!!
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