Proverbs 25:4 Take away the dross from the silver, and there shall come forth [the material for] a vessel for the silversmith [to work up].

2 Timothy 2:21 So whoever cleanses himself [from what is ignoble and unclean, who separates himself from contact with contaminating and corrupting influences] will [then himself] be a vessel set apart and useful for honorable and noble purposes, consecrated and profitable to the Master, fit and ready for any good work.

Does he feel "safe" being honest with you? I know that throws it back on you and I don't mean to but that came up in our MC many times that I wasn't "safe". I can understand why to some extent he felt that way since I had my AO's and DJ's down pat but now it has become a way of life and he is having trouble changing back into a honest and open person. Of course it doesn't help when your S calls you a liar! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

I'm not sure how you meant that, but it doesn't sound to me like it throws the responsibility back on me. I could be the safest person on earth and still not get honesty or openness from him.

Or, I could just be me...

It is driving me insane to try to be safe. It has escalated to the point that I don't even want to ask him to do a simple favor for me, for fear that he will do it when he doesn't really want to.

I don't even ask him to eat out because even if he seems to enthusiastically agree, a week later he will be angry that we said we were going to save money and then didn't.

I can't be responsible for his honesty or even his openness. Doesn't there come a point when, no matter how I respond, he should just DO it?

I know I don't always respond perfectly when he is open, though I have made improvements (I really have, and you know I wouldn't give myself credit), but he seems to fear ANY negative emotion on my part - even when expressed appropriately.

I feel like, in order to make him feel safe, I have to stop being open and hide how I really feel.

If he doesn't want to make me sad, he can just withhold what he really thinks or how he feels from me, if he thinks it will make me sad (just an example)...thereby keeping me from being sad.

I know that I can't control it. I would like to just let go of this responsibility, but I am the one who will continue to be hurt as a result of his dishonesty.

For all I know, it could be really making him angry that I keep using the word "dishonesty". I think it makes him angry that I lump even lack of openness into the Dishonesty Category, but to me - hiding things is being dishonest.

Here's the really scary, scary part...these things I've discovered...they are just the things I've DISCOVERED! Think of all the things I HAVEN'T!

I am tired of being afraid.

***I am tired of being afraid.***

You made some really good points above. To agree to something like going out to eat and then hold it against you later is damaging. It leaves you unable to trust if you can't read him. My H got so good at lying that I can't even trust my gut anymore.

Sounds to me like right now Patriot needs to decide where he stands. Witholding information is another form of deceit. It is lying by ommission. It leaves you feeling unsafe and uncertain about what else you don't know and about what else you may find.

Have you ever gotten around to scheduling time with the Harleys?

This is the part where I start to feel torn.

I understand how difficult it is for him and I see how hard he does try. We are talking about a lifetime pattern, here. One in which he was taught very early on that he must hide what he truly thinks and feels in order to feel safe.

Still hurts me, though.

So what is he doing to change this lifetime pattern?

I don't know if it's Patriot who should decide where he stands...I'm sure he does but its neither here nor there.

One of the reasons I pushed you so hard Slushy, is because you have to choose what you want for your life.

Glad you are here, BR. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm glad, too.

I really, really need help. The incident on Monday seems like a pretty big red flag to me, but I feel so screwed up, I don't even feel like I can trust my own judgment.



I don't mind being pushed. I have learned so much from you, even if I seemed slow...I DID hear you.

I don't understand what you mean by choosing. Do you mean make a decision and commit? Do you mean set boundaries? Do you mean leave and stop letting men treat me bad?

I am terrified and I feel pretty desperate. This is different than before. I feel like I have to do something soon. I can't live like this anymore.

it can mean all of those things.

What I hoped for you, was to see you grow enough, to love and respect yourself enough, that you could see clearly and own your own issues, and not play victim anymore.

Then you can make choices about your life. Fear is a very bad state of mind to make choices in. In fact fear based decisions usually carry a guarantee of the self-fulfilling prophecy.

If you are afraid, be still, focus on you, not on him, and work on your fears.

You say that in the past tense. Have I disappointed you?

Am I still playing victim? Am I not owning my own issues? I really thought I had made significant progress.



I understand.

if you do this to Patriot, im not surprised he is still holding back.

NOT that it is ok for him to do because it IS NOT.

But.

Put yourself in the shoes of other people in your life.

Imagine them attempting to communicate with you...only to be wrestled to the floor and pinned under a microscope while you twist, turn and pry every last bit of meaning and nuance from what they said!

Froz,

I think you have made progress. You haven't disappointed me, geez. You are who you are, and this is where you are at.

Have you made enough progress? No.

But then again, neither have I. Thats what life is about, growing, learning and changing.

My problem here is that you have gotten stuck and your marriage probably doesn't have alot of time.

Hmmm...sorry about that. You have been such a valuable learning source for me and I am just eager to really understand.


I'm a little reluctant to further ask questions, but...

Is there anything you might recommend that I could do or work on that would be helpful?

I am willing to do the work, and I will not be combative or stonewalling.

How are you today, slushy?

I'm okay. Thank you for asking.

Patriot scheduled an appointment two days ago. We have an appointment set for Wednesday morning.

Hooray! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Tell Patriot I said I am very happy to hear this.

I've been thinking about this statement.

I have made improvements where this is concerned. Then again, he has made improvements with honesty and openness, too. There is still room for more improvement on both parts.

Perhaps the two really are directly related. This is not to say that I am responsible for his behavior, but maybe I am getting out of it what I am putting into it. It definitely doesn't make a lot of sense to ever behave in a manner that is counter-productive to getting what I would like.

Just some updates:

I am in the process of studying Imago Relationship Therapy. I am completely fascinated with it. It discusses a lot of the things BrambleRose has shared with me before, like there being a reason we choose the partners we choose (which always puzzled me).

I find the concepts unbelievably interesting. In a very condensed version, it talks about how you choose a partner who possesses the very traits that wounded you as a child, in an attempt to heal.

If you learn to understand that the defenses your partner uses are a result of his own childhood wounds, and also aspects of yourself that you have disowned and rejected, you begin to develop compassion towards him. This helps you learn to love and accept him as he is.

Through practicing love and acceptance of your partner, you simultaneously practice love and acceptance of yourself and thus halt the practice of self-rejection.

That is a broad overview, but I will tell you that it is making a very big difference for me.

Also, we have an appointment with Dr. Harley in the morning.

And...Patriot is taking my children and I on a vacation, to commence this Sunday morning. I am looking forward to it very much.

Dear Slushy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I love hearing about your progress and the above posts tells me you have made a lot. That is why I asked you if he felt "safe" being honest because I don't make my H feel safe though I am working on that aspect of myself. Where do you study the Imago Relationship Therapy? Sounds very intriguing to me.

A vacation??? What's that? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Been so long since we had one. Good progress for both of you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Brilliant.