I believe dysfunctions match like a key fitting into a lock. There are behaviors that match with behaviors of the spouse that we are attracted to almost as if a magnet pulled us there.

Today hasn't been the greatest. We had the appointment with Dr. Harley this morning, and I've been feeling a little disappointed all day.

We learned some things, but towards the end of the session he talked about healing and mentioned that there were steps he would like Patriot to take to 'heal the wound' of the A and that he would talk him through them and then...to be continued.

It felt a little like having a carrot dangled in front of my face and then yanked away. I've been a little bummed about it all day.

Now I am more than bummed, because my DD18 just told me she would like to talk to me about something and then laid it on me...

She just got off the phone with her father and he said that if she would come for Spring Break, he would buy her an airline ticket.

Spring Break is when we are going on our first family vacation !

I've never taken my kids on a vacation before. Being a young mother (and a self-employed one), I never could afford to do this.

She doesn't even KNOW her father - the Junior Prom date who ditched me after I got pregnant and then joined the Army right after we graduated high school. He has lived out of state ever since and has seen her three times in her eighteen years that she remembers - and once that she doesn't remember. That doesn't even count the times he has told her he would come see her and then stood her up without even calling.

What she said...

He said he would pay for my airline ticket and everything and this may be the only opportunity I have to get to know him, and I know that you guys will always be there for me.

I understand how she feels and I am glad to see her get the opportunity, but I am so sad for me. I don't feel like it would be the right thing to exert authority and tell her she can't go. It's her decision and she desperately wants my approval because she knows how disappointed I will be.

His timing just really sucks. I'm not liking him very much right now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Frozen - I think her seeing her father is much more important than a family vacation, although I understand your disappointment. When my son was 18, he announced that he was going to go live with his dad, who had never spent more than 5 minutes with son in his whole life. I was floored!!!!

Anyway, I let him go, and sure enough, back he came in 5 months. It is just part of what kids need to do.

{{Froz}} I understand but you will be there for your DD always and she KNOWS that. How awesome is it that she has so much confidence in her R with you. Go enjoy your family vacation anyway.

Oh is the follow up with Harley just for Pat?

Thanks Believer and FF.

Patriot and I told her last night that we supported her decision. She hugged us both and thanked us for understanding.

I do understand, but selfishly I wanted the four of us to spend this time together. It was a big deal to me, especially since I've never been able to take them on a vacation before.

We are going to go anyway. DS, who will be 16 (too many milestones lately) on Saturday, still wants to go. It's usually pretty difficult to find things to do at home to spend time with him, so perhaps the one-on-one time will be nice. Make that TWO-on-one, with Patriot.

Hey! You know what always happens when I am alone with DS and Patriot? It's TWO-on-one, them against me! They like to pick on me and tease me. For some reason, they find it amusing.



I didn't get the impression that it was just for Patriot, but I guess it's possible I could be asked to step out of the room.

Also, on the subject of Imago.

Dr. Harley said that it contradicts MB principles, in that Imago operates on the belief that we choose our partners based on similar characteristics of our parents and childhood wounds. MB states that we choose our partners based on who fills our love bank.

I believe in MB principles and I have faith in them, but I don't see that all of Imago contradicts MB principles and I am not going to toss out Imago study just yet.

I am finding a lot of it very helpful, particularly the parts that address childhood wounds, the messages we tell ourselves based on what we have learned from our caretakers, and the defenses we develop that prevent us from receiving, to name a few.

The books are full of pretty in-depth exercises to help develop self-awareness. To answer your question, the particular book I am studying is called Receiving Love by Harville Hendrix and Helen LaKelly Hunt. They have several books and a website, too.

FF,

How are you doing?

Things seem to have taken a different direction, as of late.

Patriot suddenly seems to be interested in taking an active role in Recovery. As a matter of fact, the way he is acting, one would think it was his biggest priority.

Of course, I can be a bit of a skeptic - I feel I have valid reasons to be skeptical. Without my even mentioning it, he reassured me that the changes he is making wouldn't fall by the wayside for other things.

He is devoting an enormous amount of time to Recovery talk, marriage building talk, and meeting my EN's. He is even taking the semester off this summer from school.

I have no idea what is actually responsible for the changes he is making, although I'm extremely curious. I did ask him. All he said was that he "was tired of sucking".

These are all positive efforts. They don't go unnoticed and are very much appreciated by me.

I do have concerns about our situation. Is there a point where things are just unrecoverable? Heck...for all I know, maybe they never were!

I've read information on here that discusses even Dr. Harley's stance on infidelity pre-marriage (among other situations, too) and it sounds as though he completely advises against it...

I haven't read, though, what he feels will be the outcome of such situations and why he advises against them. Does he believe it will happen again? Does he believe it is just too difficult to Recover from? I don't know.

I am somewhat discouraged to read such information. Add to that the fact that we have both made detrimental errors, and that I have also read here that Recovery can't even begin until the details of the A have been discussed. So, here we are - going on almost 1 1/2 years of "Recovery" and we haven't really even begun???

Patriot has expressed a willingness, just lately, to discuss these things. I made the decision not to, for right now. I don't want not doing it to hinder us in any way, but until I hear from Steve Harley himself that he really recommends our doing so - I AM NOT going back to D-DAY AGAIN!!! Once was a time to many, not to mention several times. It's just too much, and my love bank has been in the red for quite some time now.

I remember a very long time ago, some MB members really tried to get me to take a look at the reason why I married him, despite D-Day a month before our wedding date. I've been thinking about this quite a lot lately. Before, I listed such reasons as: I loved him so much, we had already built a life together, etc...

Now I think the answer is really quite simple. I was just completely and totally in denial and thought that if I could pretend as though it weren't true, maybe it wouldn't be.

Hiya slushy! Wow, good changes on the part of Patriot and I totally get why you feel a bit cynical. Give it some time. He knows he has to show you the changes are for good.

As for the details, if you don't want them you don't have to get them. It is up to YOU as the BS to decide.

BTW, I have lived on the river called denial for a looong time.

Sorry, totally missed that <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Doing ok. Anger comes and goes and my lack of really giving a crap comes and goes but all in all..

Ahhh, but I do want to know.

I just don't want to go through it again unless it's going to count, meaning no lies, no hiding. I don't want to die that "death of a thousand cuts" again, only to discover it wasn't the real death, but this time it is...no, wait...THIS time it is.



Yeah? You'd think we'd have run into each other before now, hanging out in 'de same neck of the woods. I guess it's a big neighborhood. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hi Froz ~

Just a theory I have about you ~

I think you are afraid of intimacy.

I think that you chose Patriot because you didn't have to be truely real and intimate with him.

Now he's stepping up, which means you might have to let down your walls and make yourself truely vulnerable...and you are frantically looking for the exit.

Are you going to let your childhood past run your adult present?

Pretty sneaky to attempt to quote a Harley on a reason you shouldn't engage in your marriage, but it won't fly with me.

Of course I am afraid of being intimate with him. Getting too close to that fire has gotten me burned before.

I am not seeing that I chose him for that reason initially. I was being real and intimate with him, and was not aware that he was not being open with me.



I am not looking for an exit. In fact, I have finally stopped vascilating between leaving and staying.

Also, the path he chooses remains to be seen. We are talking about less than a week here. It is a step in the right direction, but I have thought that before, too, so I intend to wait and see what happens.

I wasn't using the comment about the Harley's as an excuse to exit - it was mentioned because it is something I have read lately that caused me to be concerned that this would be even more difficult that I thought, or that somehow our chances of achieving Recovery were lessened.

Your comment about my childhood is a good point. I'm working on it.

your chances at recovery are no less than anyone else's.

you and Patriot can have a good marriage if you both chose it.

Reading that is very reassuring. Thank you.

Could it be that the Harley's hold that belief because, in those situations, it isn't likely that the WS/FWS will choose it or make the necessary changes?

Froz, I think it is more along the lines of why marry someone who already cheated on you? Obviously every situation is different and you DID marry Patriot. I agree with BR that you have as much chance as anyone at recovery.

I am so tired.

Patriot asked me to have a talk with him this evening after we get off work - I think to discuss Recovery again and where we want to be and how to get there.

I have had little to say where that's concerned lately because I'm just tired - mentally and physically.

I don't know what either of us could say that we haven't already said before. I have doubts that either of us is going to have some huge AHA Moment and suddenly something is going to change.

I feel like the best I can strive for is contentment and I have learned, for the most part, how to achieve that. I just release my expectations of him and focus on myself. When I do that, it works. I feel a sense of contentment. It doesn't bring me closer to him, but it sure feels better than all the conflict.

That's what he said he wanted - a "normal" life.

I'm tired of even hoping for something different. Each time I really have hope about this, it feels all the more disappointing when we don't achieve it.

I've been raging all week, pretty much.

I feel ignored a lot of the time. I feel unimportant.

It hurts me when I perceive that he ignores me. It hurts me to feel like I don't come first in his life. It takes a lot of effort on my part to not react to it. I've been making the effort to NOT do it for a while now.

Lately I have stopped because it seems like, regardless of how I respond, the end result is still the same. Also, it gets his attention. He isn't ignoring me anymore. He isn't walking around pretending like everything is roses. It calls him to action. Nothing else does.

Yesterday he said this to me -



That makes sense to me. I can understand now how that could make me look strong to him. It isn't that way from my vantage point.

This is what I said in response to him -


I do not want to have a talk about how everything is going to be different this time. I do not want some formulated plan of how we are going to "get it done" when it's not going to be carried out.

Remind me again, please, why his way of responding is better than mine. His coping mechanism hurts me just as badly as mine hurts him. Remind me again why I have to go first. He's the one who made the decision to have an A, thus making these things much more difficult.

We've had some real breakthoughs. I think maybe we're on the verge of really applying what we've learned and are beginning to work together to Recover, instead of constantly hurting each other with our defense mechanisms.

Maybe, just maybe, we'll get there after all.

Yep, I felt that coming. I can see the change in Pat's attitude lately. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />