I agree to stay away if one can't draw the line between being there and enabeling his drinking ... this is tough love. Love the person but hate the habit.

We can't speak for him ... only Lisa could judge this. I didn't read anywhere here that Lisa is exploited. OW is.

I agree but when they are normal, the damage could had been too much specially when addicts attribute NC as abandonment.

He had stopped until a few months ago to start again. OW is enabeling as drinking buddy. Showing up as a healthy alternative is really a blessing for him.

Not on the sideline to support his drinking but just letting him know there is someone would be there to catch him when he falls and when be there to help him out to stop drinking. I had seen addict lost hope b/c they beleive there is no reason to stop.

What support ? he has NC on her. You mean emotional support ?. I am not advocating supporting his drinking at all nor his A ... I am advocating "tough love" not NC. Without kids, and M ... NC is sure way to end this R.

I agree with you but not w/ NC. Lisa has to find a way to keep contact w/o wrapping her self in the drama.

I have to disagree w/ you, it does. I have seen damage done in dual diagnosed clients.

-rh-

Thank you Melody and RH you have become MY lighthouses. I do appreciate both of your feedbacks and kinda have combined them.

I text messaged him a bit ago asking him to tell me where I could find the remainder of his stuff that he had been looking for.I also told him that despite what he was feeling we were all still there for him. He text me back that he didn't know who to trust at this point in time. I sent him a message back saying help me find your stuff, it's okay. He called and while he started off genuinely agitated and bitter "I'm going to give this a try" by the end of our conversation I could tell he was calmer. He agreed that the stuff in the attic wasn't worth going up now for..he can always get later when the weather cools off.

I extended the offer to do his resume, he said he wasn't sure what he was going to do. He also indicated that OW was not going to be able to help with car payment so he was going to have to let the car go. I didn't say anything further.

I kept it short and simple to the point. I ended the conversation politely indicating I had company, which I did.

I did send him a message later asking if I helped with the payment would it buy him time to get the rest together. He said he wasn't sure.

Knowing him like I do...since he willingly took this handout from me. I think RH is correct, he needs his lighthouse to let him know it's okay over here on this side of the water. as opposed to drowning where he is.

I think that I will do NC on my part, but leave the door open for him to contact me. I won't push him or pressure but he knows he can contact me if he needs me. Does this sound acceptable?

redhat, she can't help him stop drinking and she can't catch him when he falls. He should not be protected from a fall. He needs that crash at the bottom in order to wake up. The worst thing she could do is protect him from the consequences of his choices. If she tries to catch him, she is enabling him, she is hurting him.

But what I am suggesting is that she tell him she is willing to discuss reconciliation IF he sobers up and joins AA. See, any support of an alcoholic, other than a ride to the rehab or to AA, is destructive to him. That is how she has been enabling him. She has always been there to clean up the mess for him. That helps him continue his destructive drinking. What I am suggesting is that she end all contact, ALL SUPPORT, and only accept him back when he has stopped drinking and joined AA.

But as long as she is there supporting him in ANY WAY while he is drinking, she is simply enabling him. Once he loses that support, he will have lost his last thread to sanity and will likely free fall. Removing herself from his life may well the one thing that shocks him into action and it takes such a crisis to wake up an alcoholic.

Another reason she should cut off contact is because he is destructive, dangerous and unpredictable. He can do nothing but harm her while he is on a grand drinking binge. She needs to remove herself from the insanity in order to protect herself.

Giving money to an alcoholic is like giving a gun to a suicidal person. Please don't harm him in this way. You are doing nothing more than protecting him from the consequences if his choices. Losing his car will help him wake up! Don't deprive him of this valuable lesson. Offering him money sends the wrong message that you are available to be used.


I wouldn't bother because it defeats the entire purpose. What would be the point? The purpose is to give him a motivation to stop drinking, by setting a stipulation for contact. If he can come see you whenever the spirit moves him, what is the point? It removes any motivation for him to stop drinking if he can continue to use you without ever having to stop drinking.

If he knows you will pick up the pieces for him, ie: enable him, with no stipulations attached, then it is all for naught.

The most compassionate thing you could do for your H is to give him a MOTIVATION to stop drinking and sober up. That motivation can only come if you cut off something he needs [you] and set stipulations for his return.

Please do yourself a favor and go to Alanon, your H's life may depend on it.

redhat, I will add that an addict is motivated by one thing and one thing only: PAIN. When the pain of being drunk outweighs the pain of being sober, they will do something about it. But as long as they have someone on the sidelines protecting them from that pain, they can continue to kill themselves. PAIN is the best medicine for an addict.

I don't think Lisa is protecting him from the pain neither I am advocating it. He has to face the pain but it doesn't mean he has to face it alone.

many just did that, kill themself because there is no hope of facing the pain. Just to let you know that I am "a harm reduction" type of guy. I disagree with you. Can we end it here ... peace <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> .

-rh-

redhat, he is killing himself NOW. As we speak. Many addicts do not survive. I don't know how many years you have been sober, but I have been sober for 20 years now in AA, and know that what Lisa is doing is harmful to him. She is protecting him frm the pain - the best medicine - by her own admission.

The only thing that can save him is a powerful enough pain to make him want to stop. The only way he can face it is alone, because with her, the pain isn't acute enough to make him want to change. She buffers the pain when she enables him.

She is picking up the pieces and protecting him from things like losing his car. He needs to lose the car. He needs to be allowed to fall.

At least he is honest with you.

This is what you want. You made it safe for him to carry on and he responded to you.

This is BAD. You don't give $$, you should only listen, givin him hope that he could do it and shine him with your love/care.

Did he took $$ or not ?. Again only emotional support no financial.

-rh-

so melody you are saying that she need to do a plan B but her no contact letter needs to state that she will consider reconciliation when he is sober and has joined AA?

exactly.

I am never been an Alcoholic. I work in a recovery program that beleive in harm reduction ... give 'em hope so that they don't harm themself and allow to crash but not enough to kill 'em.

I didn't disagree w/ you on Lisa's givin $$ ... read my response to her.

I understand well your point.

I completely disagree w/ you on NC or plan B, can't I ?.

-rh-

Thank you both Melody and Red Hat. I have a separate thank you post going on the thread for you both. I apologize for causing such a controversial thread with my questions.

I think I may have confused you all and here is the clarification. When I met him, he was drinking. He cleaned up while we were together because it was a stipulation in our living situation. We had no alcohol in the house...etc. He occasionally drank but not in excess as he had prior. The past 6mos he fell into depression and then the drinking started to increase. It was a couple of months ago when I said enough was enough, I couldn't have him in the house and he needed to go cool off at our friends house. I never enabled his drinking persay, as OW has by feeding him JD constantly...I enabled him the past 5yrs by being even worse...trying to give him everything to keep him from drinking. I thought if I could keep him happy, he wouldn't go back to drinking. In the end, I sheltered him from facing reality and responsibility. For that I am guilty...

I thank you again.

redhat, we at AA don't beleive in "harm reduction," so maybe we just have different programs of recovery here. WE don't believe in "supporting" someone in thier mission to destroy himself. We are strong believers in reality and facing the consequences of one's own actions if that helps the person stop drinking. It is sometimes very effective.

I know it saved my life. Had my husband given me "emotional support" for being a drunken psycho, I would probably still be drunk today. Thankfully, he did not "support" me in my self destruct mission and here I am 20 years later. He supported me ONLY in stopping drinking and that is what motivated me to stop.

Alcoholics often do kill themselves if they don't hit bottom [crash] and that is what I am suggesting she do. Her H is profoundly destructive and about the only thing protecting him from hitting his bottom is HER enabling, ie: "support." She is picking up the pieces for him and not being helpful at all.

He should not be given "emotional support," he should not be supported in ANYTHING except a ride to AA or the psych ward to dry out. Giving support for anything else is only destructive and shows a profound naievity about addiction.

The longer he drinks the greater risk he will be killed. Moving out of the way may very well be what saves his life.

Sadie, sorry for the controversy, I will leave you in redhat's capable hands.

sadie,

please listen to melodylane



she has been through recovery...she knows what your husband needs to get there too.

she may not tell you what you WANT to HEAR but she will tell you what you HAVE to HEAR

it may not be what you WANT to DO but it is the BEST THING for you TO DO.

No, please I appreciate everyone's input here. I have been taking it and applying it towards my thoughts with him. As RedHat says I do know him...I do know what makes him tick, at least the sober H, I should say.

I'll keep everyone posted on any updates that I have. I just am glad that he went for help. That was my biggest prayer. He's been needing this for quite some time now and I hope that besides these medications that he will do the therapy with the outpatient. But I won't hold my breath.

Thank you again...I do appreciate everyone on here. It was a valuable tool for me the past couple of days. You will never know just how much you meant.

FYI: It is a recovery clinic for dual diagnosed patient. I read that WH is not only alcoholic but have a mental issue.

As do most alcoholics.