I wrote this post based on my story, in an effort to help those who have questions about me and my WS and how the A started.

The story of Help Less Romantic

The end of a fairytale Marriage
Confused but still in Love! Looking to ignite a new Romance with my Wife!

I guess we all believe our marriages are special and sacred; I have been married to the women of my dreams for 25 years and never believed she could do this to me. You believe you know how you would feel if it happens but you really don’t.

Here is some background:

My wife is 43 and stunning she look somewhat like; Ashley Judd or Catherine Zeta-Jones; She is very good looking and has men from college to retired checking her out.

I’m 45 and have been told I look young and good looking; I’m also fairly physically fit.

My point is neither of us is unattractive, which I have found has little to do with an affair.

The Other Man is 61! My wife has said like you I always thought I would fall for a young good looking guy, but hard to say who you’re going to like or why. She has told me, I should find some reassurance in the fact that he is not better than me?

We met in the fall of 1979 and with a short engagement we where married less than a year later. We have two children now ages 25 & 23; we had our up and downs like any marriage but in reality had a beautiful wonderful life. We had just returned from our 25 anniversary vacation and we both felt we haven’t been this close in years.

That all changed on the eve of our 25 anniversary D-day!


EA Started sometime in 2004

Funny thing is I noticed the EA about a month before PA started and I asked my wife to not see him. She told me if you want me to do that I will! But you know he is not my type and keeping him as a business contact would be good for my career.

So I foolishly said, fine go out for dinner and the next dinner is when the PA started!

D-Day

I found messages on her cell phone that said “I miss You, Love you and I Love you Baby!” She hasn’t called me baby in years! When I confronted her she confessed stating that her relationship with him just progressed to that level. She said she didn’t do it to hurt me and still loves me and claims it is possible to be in love with two men at the same time.

It was a gut wrenching experience and I drove everywhere and nowhere my W, called on me several time to ask how I was doing. I was thinking of just driving away and never stopping my fairytale life just ended!

I started to think of my life with out my W and was actually more saddened and I started to think of how many times my W and I told each other we would be there for each other no matter what!

I stopped and bought my wife flowers and retuned home that evening, I was crying and told her this was one of the worst experiences in my life and the only thing that could make it get worse is my life without her! We both cried, hugged and kissed. She told me she was sorry for not using her fuc*ing head and loved me! She said I have always loved you, the A wasn’t about you, it was about feeling I developed for him. I asked her what she wanted and she responded with I am your W, not his!

That was my D-day


How they Meet and It became an EA

He was the new COO in charge of restructuring the company. He meet with all of the VP’s before realigning the company, originally he spurned my W, but she wrote her vision for the company and presented it to him. He was very impressed and invited her to be on and run the newly formed conversion team.

There was a lot to do that year, including many business trips to other locations.

My WS said that she grew fond OM but they didn’t have intimate contact until he left the company. He moved to another state and only travels here on business once a month.

“It is my believe that he was the first man other than me to respect her opinion and that meant an awful lot to her, considering his stature.”

EA becomes PA

My wife would meet the other man about once a month for dinner

I thought it was just two fond colleagues enjoying each others company. Heck they fooled me so well that they would invite me out to dinner, as they discussed their past projects and what was supposedly going on at the company since he left. They spent the prior year working together on a stressful merger that required them to consolidate many systems.

He raised a lot of suspicion so I told my wife last fall that he didn’t look at her as a collogue; She said he is very knowledgeable and influential in the industry; he is a great person to network with. Sometimes I would go, but she always told me when they where meeting.

I SHOULD HAVE TRUSTED MY GUT! For all of you out there that get a sense of feeling that something is wrong it most likely is.


The Affair

My WS told me all along before the A that the OM was a good friend, I told her at one point he was getting too close…But when he left her place of employment, she told me that there was no one within her company that took her seriously. She sated “if you think I should never see him again let me know and I won’t.” I told her I very much understand the importance of network contacts and let her meet him when he traveled to our state. I felt very bad for her and when the OM returned to our state for business, she asked me if they could go out to dinner. I told her it would OK…Not know what would happen. My relationship with my WS became strange and we fought more than usual. My WS told me she feel in-love with him but was still very much in-love with me, she was very confused…She told me that her and the OM discussed how this affected their marriages and my W told me that it was extremely hard on her.

The most interesting thing was she told me her thoughts as to how the A happened. I knew her and the OM where close friends and he was also a business confidant but after he left his position with the company they both worked at, my WS felt a greater loss and thought she wouldn’t see him again, when he came back and they went for dinner.

She told me latter about the night it happened; at dinner they had wine and told each other how much they missed each other. She went to his room for more wine and was drunk and one thing led to another, I’m not sure but I probably wanted it to happen? “She told me I wasn’t looking for it, it just happened and I’m sorry.”

I asked why she had sex with him?

She also told me that she liked the way the OM made her feel about her self, she said the sex was just an expression of the level of their relationship. I was falling in love with him, not out of love with you.

She said she could have asked for a D or separation but didn’t because she was in love with me, her H. She said she doesn’t know why it happened just that it did, does she wish it didn’t, she gave me a two part response; she wish it didn’t so she didn’t hurt me but she doesn’t regret the rest.

My W said through out the entire affair “I was still in love with you.” WS said she and OM would talk about how this would affect their marriages and not wanting to hurt their spouses. WS said “I Love you and know I always will be, whether we are together or apart; I just didn’t want to hurt you.”

She claims there relationship just grew to this level saying I can’t explain it anymore than I can explain why you like someone; the first night we had the right amount of alcohol and it just happen, but when I asked why it continued WS said “I don’t know…and would tell me when she figures out the answer to that one.”
My concern is that WS had a secrete life I knew nothing about! I feel I cannot compete with the excitement she had with an affair!

My WS states it is possible to love two men! I asked here point blank, are you IN-LOVE with him. She responded do I love him “yes” am I in-love with him “NO”
She also told me that her love was different for both of us, but the OM filled needs I didn’t. She said she can’t explain it and said the only way I would know is to have an A myself?


IS the A Continuing?

First let me say that I know that current physical contact has been impossible. They both live a thousand miles apart and I have some idea of his recent travels within his profession and current company. Second I do believe my wife when she tells me that they haven’t been intimate in 4 months, she claims the affair was mainly emotional but late last year and early this year it became more, she tells me she loves him but its not the same as me…She tells me she knows it makes no sense but that’s how she feels. She said it is very hard on her not to talk to him but knows its best for our marriage.

She told me that she hasn’t had physical contact with him in four months. She has told me she is committed to our marriage and is very sorry

Trust

I must start with a proverb that says “Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.”

I said all of this makes me feel our marriage is a LIE. I don’t feel special or loved; it’s incredibly hard for a man not only to her that his wife had sex with another man but feel in love with another man. I feel you had a very secretive life I knew nothing about and you made a fool out of me by lying to me for six months.

Its just our relationship has always been based on trust and I find it hard not to believe in her, furthermore every time a talk about the trust issue tears fall from her face and that hurts me as much as asking her. She told me that she never felt she put him or her feelings for him above our relationship and only met him once a month, during that time. I told her that I felt because she let the relationship evolve that far and lied to me about it and her secret life; it put stress and jeopardized our marriage. She stated that everything adds stress in a marriage and never felt it was going to cause us to separate and only kept the truth from me because she really didn’t want to hurt me. I told her above all else I would want to know the truth…I told her that her lying to me and falling in love with him actually hurts me more than the sex. Which she stated happened four times, the first time she was week and really don’t know why she allowed the other three to occur. I asked her to explain why she thinks it happened and let it reoccur and She told me she really don’t know and if she figures it out will tell me. I asked her to promise it will never happen again, She said it shouldn’t have happened the first time, don’t you think I know I’m married and in love with you but I let it happen, How can I promises you something when I already broke my promise?


WHY DID IT HAPPEN?

I would like to know from those of you that have had an A, you opinion on my thoughts as to why she had the A? I’ll list her reasons and some I believe had influence, please provide any comments as to which of these affected you.

My WS:

The OM was a good friend, who supported her at work and moved away. When he returned for a dinner meeting we both realized we where in love, a little wine and it just happened.

My opinion:

- Yes he was a good friend, and the first man other than me that recognized that she is a very talented woman, which meant an awful lot to her.
- They worked on a very stressful project and created a very tight bond.

- Our daughter was married just a few months earlier, We my “my WS & I” married young and have been each others only sexual partner for 26 years; which I believe led her to a midlife crisis wanting to know what she was missing in life.

You add mine to hers and I believe it was the right chemistry?

If you had some similar experience that led to the A, what were they and did you ever have another A?

My WS and the other M have incidental business communications.

We talked about NC and knows she can never see him again but he works for a company that has contact with hers, so she said even though she may not initiate it, they may talk. I told her the only way I would accept it if it was truly inadvertent contact and she immediately told me.

She has made it clear that all romantic interests are over but she still has feelings for him. She has also made it clear that if I demand no contact she’ll still have some contact. I feel if I’m too harsh, she’ll talk any way and if she is already lying about talking, she might meet the OM and leap to seeing etc…

Allowing contact can be bad for similar reasons, but she might keep me in the loop?

First let me explain the boundaries I set. I understood there was going to be some group contact, mainly via the phone and some emails. I told her she was to try and have his communications go through another party where possible and inform me of any incidental contact.

I told her as long as she was honest with me, I would try to believe in her again…She was very shocked that she needed to win my trust back. I told her as long as we both are committed to our marriage and IN-LOVE with each other I would help her and try to be understanding.

Healing

My W has only read some of Dr. Harleys stuff that I asked her to read, she claimed it was very hard for her to read, because everything makes her feel bad and reminder that she the cause of all of the pain. But she said that Dr. Harley said that most A only last less than 2 years and die before they are discovered, she said hers was dying and didn’t think she would have slept with him again, although she did admit she still loved him but came to realize she was in-love with me, her H!

I tried again by compiling many of the articles from Dr. Harley and asked her to read them. While reading she started crying saying it was too hard and she can’t be that bad of person. I told her that good people in good marriages have affairs but it’s helpful to discuss the affair, how it happened and what we can do. She said no one but her knows her life and finds it highly unlikely that anyone who wrote about an affair would know how she feels. She read them for me but when I tried again she stated it was to hard last time and would rather not. I wanted to get to the point of creating a marriage plan and discussing our EN, which we haven’t done yet.

So I tried writing a letter:

[color:"blue"]YOU KNOW I LOVE YOU!

At some point you might want to review some of the stuff I have been reading, I know it has helped me and I’m hopeful some of it can help you. I have spent many hours reading and some writing. All of this helps, which is why I think you should read some of this material.

I placed some of the documents in a folder marked “1” on the “C” drive. C:\1

I know we are both committed to our marriage but we need to discuss what has and is happening and what we are going to do next. I want us to be a special couple again and want to feel special, as I know you do.

I know from the bottom of my heart that I want to be married to you! I want my feelings of emptiness and mistrust to fade but need your continued help.


Your Loving,

Husband [/color]


So far she hasn’t read any of the material.

She doesn’t want a divorce or we would be split already, she’s confused and when confronted she attacks with what hurts...unfortunately I’m hurting too and sometimes not sure what to do…I even think of leaving, but from every thing I read, leave that for your last option. She’s a wonderful person and we have had a wonderful life, but now we have all of these problems that contain a lot of pain. I think we both love the other enough to know that if we where the soul source of there pain, we would leave…Which is why I think she is having such a hard time cooping.

What next

My WS told me the A was over about 3 months before I found out. When I found out our marriage was at its highest point in more than a year, so the whole thing was very devastating. I still wakeup in the middle of the night dreaming of what happened. We have both comforted each other over the last month…Funniest thing is she seem closer to me today than before D-day.

MY END GOAL IS TO REMARRY HER…. Kind of silly but I figure if we are going to stay married I wanted new VOWS. She is unsure or doing it or not? I told her it could be a private ceremony, while vacationing. She stated we never planed on renewing our Vows before but now you want to? Lets give it some time before you ask me again…Make sure this is what we both want.

I told her, usually when one spouse has broken their VOW’s they become less meaning full and it becomes more likely that it could happen again. She replied “You know me better than that and I promise it well never happen again, besides I just couldn’t do it again after what has happened.” Her eyes where very gloss and almost ready to cry; I told her that meant an awful lot to me.

HLR,

Glad I got the chance to read your whole story...here are my thoughts, I warn you ahead of time that they are extremely blunt...please take no offense, they are intended with kindness I assure you...also, it's pretty late/early as I type this, so beware and proceed with caution, but also careful attention...here's hoping there are a few eye openers...



What she really meant here was..."I really will see him again, but I just won't tell you about it." She also saw this as a great tactic for throwing you off the trail...remember earlier she also said that he wasn't her type, almost all WSes say this for purposes of muddying the waters...





Yes, it WAS based on trust, that ended, however, when she began the A...But you can't believe a word that she says right now, no matter how much you want to. Until she becomes TRULY commited to you and your marriage...so far what has she done in the way of repairing the damage that the A created? Tears and Lip Service? ACTION is the key here, HLR...(As in reading the material you've asked her to, going to counseling, NC...even if it hurts her career(you should be more important than her career),giving you FULL access to all accounts-bank,cell phone,computer or any others...)Btw,tears won't kill her, I'm guessing that you've had to shed a few during all this...




She seems pretty flip about hurting you here...everything adds stress to a marriage? I'd say that A's rank a pretty tall number one on the list of marital stressors...Here she goes again with eating cake in the fog, c'mon, she didn't think it was going to cause you to separate? If that were true, she would have just told you about it...she didn't WANT it to cause you to separate, cause that breaks up the "self indulgence fest". Honestly, HLR, if she was so concerned with not hurting you, the A wouldn't have begun in the first place...A's are selfish, and the WS does not consider the BS's feelings when they get involved in an A...in the beginning, they just don't believe they'll get caught! Sure they may have feelings of guilt, but guilt is not the same as considering your feelings...guilty pleasure...





This is WS double speak fog babble...BIGTIME! Reminds me of when my dad use to trick my brother and I with the old "Heads I Win, Tails You Lose" trick...How long did it take for your head to quit spinning after she said this? I'm pretty sure that that might have triggered a seizure for an epileptic...WOW, she's in deep on this one...





Who is she to issue threats right now??? HLR, you don't have to LB, but it isn't too much to ask for her to respect you. Too harsh??? So, you've decided to walk on eggshells for the rest of your life? It's okay for her to remain connected to the person that is a "CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER" to your 25 year marriage? If you think so, then I know that FOG is contagious! Basically what you are saying is that you'd rather have her in an A than risk making her mad??? AND you are condoning her treating you with spite? NO! NO! NO!




She was shocked??? Isn't that kinda like the criminal being shocked to find that they actually lock the doors in prison?
Btw, I seriously doubt that she will be honest with you, how can you be sure...cause you trust her??? HLR, I can tell by your posts that you are smarter than that...





Well, yes, affairs are painful to recover from, but IF you are going to recover you have to deal with all issues head on...you must go through them, not around them...HLR, she's an adult and she must realize that every choice in life has consequences...part of the consequence of her A is dealing with it...wouldn't sleep with him but still loved him??? I doubt this a TON my friend...





EVERY SINGLE WS HAS SOME VARIATION ON WHY THEIR SITUATION IS UNIQUE...STRAIGHT FROM THE SCRIPT!!! If you ever do get her to read here, she will feel SO sheepish about how "cookie cutter" her A was...I know that I did!






I fear that she is luring you into a false recovery, and will just become better at hiding things from you...if she was commited to you and your marriage, she would be gobbling up all info that she could about the anatomy of affairs and how to recover your marriage...it does not hurt to read how to save your marriage...if she was committed to doing this she would be glad to have the chance to save it!







See, YOU ARE commited to her and your marriage, so you are reading up on how to do it...if anybody should be hurting while reading about affairs, it should be you...and yet you are still reading...see the difference in your level of commitment versus hers?




So until she does,HLR, she is NOT commited to the recovery of your marriage...can you see this?





"Fence Riding Cake Eaters" never do want a divorce...She's only confused now that you've caught her, before that she had it exactly as she wanted it...it was the best cake that she had ever tasted...





I'm quite sure that she is, but right now, you are not dealing with the wonderful person that you know...though she may look and sound like your wife, she's actually completely "foggy" and you have to basically view her as alien possessed...





I think that this is so sweet...my husband and I are going to do this as soon as we can.

HLR, she just seems so foggy to me...I just don't think that she is completely out of the A or she would be more than willing to do whatever it takes to get your M back on track...

I know that this post was so harsh, and I really do apologize, the last thing that I would want to do is hurt you more than you've already been hurt...I just want you to safeguard and see things as they are and not just as you want them to be. I hope that none of my words sting you too badly, please know they were written with great care and concern in mind...I'll be praying for you...

Mrs. Wondering

Just to let you know, this is not uncommon even in remorseful spouses.

It's probably quite true that she doesn't know how or why this happened, but her lackadaisical attitude towards finding out is troubling. It is absolutely imperative that she do the work necessary to find out why and make the changes required to ensure she protects herself in the future.

Additionally, it is less important that YOU know why she did than it is that SHE know why. We can theorize why she did it all day, but it don't mean squat until she discovers it for herself and internalizes the values needed to prevent it in the future.

Soon after my affair, it was hard for me to make promises that it wouldn't happen again because I really didn't know how I let myself get into it in the first place. I didn't have confidence in my own ability to keep such a promise. I also had a tough time saying "I love you" because I wasn't even sure if I knew what love was.

As far as loving more than one person, yes I think that's possible. Your wife's affair does sound a lot like mine in that it was an "add-on" rather than a "replacement". Admitting to myself that I actually did love the the OW, and that it was ok, was big step in my healing.

Low

Thanks Mrs. Wondering,

I do appreciate all of the comments. My story is my understanding of what happened and the events as I know them from EA through today, so some of the comments are those that where made at that time, and not those of today!


I wrote this quote based on my recollection of a conversation between my W & I last fall, it is my belief that she was in EA and one week from PA at that time.

I tried to write the entire story based on comments and feelings of that given time.

EA realistically probably started in the summer of 2004, but neither of them probably so it that way. The OM left the company in November of 2004 and that event hurt my W, significantly, it was right after that in late November we had the discussion that I quoted.

PA started December 8, 2004, unfortunately I remember the night and thought something was wrong. PA ended March of 2005, but EA continued and I discovered it June 25, 2005 D-DAY

Today is day 53 post D-DAY!

FLR, please listen to Mrs Wonderings - she knows what she is alking about!

Mrs Wonderings, I think your post was EXCELLENT and I agree with it 100%. And I don’t think your post was harsh…not at all. Just straight, honest and to the point – all the things FLR needs to hear right now.

FLR, you are still trying to deny the truth to yourself and right now you’re in your own type of “fog”. I really hope you will listen to us and also read and re-read all the posts on your other threads.

FLR, currently you’re operating from FEAR: Fear of losing your W… Fear of making her upset… Fear of facing the facts… etc… You are walking on eggshells because your are AFRAID… Your fear is understandable FLR and you’re only human… However, you need to find a way to get out of this fear mode because it won’t help you to save and recover your M and it certainly won’t help your W to recover from her addiction and her desire to keep OM in the loop...in other words CAKE EATING.

FLR, maybe by this time you’re sick and tired of my postings, but I’m just trying to get trough to you and to help you face the TRUTH about your W so that you can take the right actions. But if you want me to stop, please tell me so.

Blessings,
Suzet

Suzet*

I appreciate the candor, but remember most of what is in my story is based on my recollection from its conception until today.

Today my wife seems to be in both a withdrawal stage and somewhat still in a fog. That’s why I’m asking for input on my most recent posting in:

Is there a post or article that explains WS withdrawal?

HLR, underneath is a thread on withdrawal I’ve created a few months ago. On this thread I’ve also included quotes from Dr Harley on withdrawal (just click on the link):

A quick start guide on withdrawal for FWS’s and BS’s

The above link was posted on your other thread 2 times so I can’t understand how you have missed it. I will also bump it for you to the top of the page.

HLR, as long as your W is still in contact with OM and wish to keep him in the loop, she will remain in the fog and won't start to fully withdraw from him.

Suzet

Thanks Suzet*

I have read your article, its just her current situation didn't seem to follow you article.

Thanks Everyone,

That’s why all of the questions in:
Is there a post or article that explains WS withdrawal?

I actually think she is in deep withdrawal and has told me that she thinks about me all of the time and what I’m doing when we aren’t together. She said “I’m just such a compassionate person you just don’t know and it hurts so bad I just want it to go away.” She has said we haven’t had SF lately, because she doesn’t feel worthy or special.

OK, now with the entire story\history where she believe the A ended months ago, but my D-day was 54 days ago and sent her into the withdrawal she is currently in because she is having such a hard time accepting what she did?

Like I said she is such a wonderful person and the A, is totally uncharacteristic or her, which is why I think it is tearing her up. She is now talking about what a bad person she is and that she is having a hard time coping with what she has done to both me and our M. She told me that it made more sense at the time, because it was about them and she know it could hurt our M, but wasn’t thinking or using her head.

What does the FS do when the WS is in deep withdrawal? Do you just let time take its course? Can I do anything? This is my biggest problem, I could make things worse or better, so I ask if anyone knows the answer?

***What does the FS do when the WS is in deep withdrawal?***

HLR - we are trying to tell you that your WW is not in withdrawal at all.

She is acting the way she is because she is still deeply involved in the affair.

I know you would rather think she is in withdrawal, because that would mean the affair is over. But you can bet your house that the affair is NOT over. From everything you have told us about her ACTIONS -- not her words, her ACTIONS -- she is still carrying on her affair and is flat-out lying to you when she says it is over.

Unless and until you want to face this fact head-on, no one here can help you. You are just setting yourself up for more devastation when the proof finally hits you in the face, as it will one of these days.

I'm sorry this is happening to you, but denial and hiding your head in the sand is not the way to handle it. That only enables her affair and lets it go on and on, and destroys what little respect she has left for you.

People here are trying to help you. Please let them help.
Mulan

HLR,

She doesn't sound like she is in withdrawel, but instead now out and the guilt, pain and overwhelming shame of what she has done has hit her. I almost commited suicide early on when the those emotions hit. They are POWERFUL.

Withdrawel is when you are coming out of the relationship, missing it, having a hard time letting go....now she is feeling the aftermath of feelings that you get when you actually COME OUT of the fog.

They are HORRIBLE. i couldn't begin to tell you...I am a BS as well, and as devestatingly painful as being a BS was, I would rather be the BS than the WS, as the BS you are a victim, you can be angry...as the WS, it's all your fault, you have HURT the one you love dearly and let yourself down and you can't be angry at anyone but yourself.

The best thing you can do is continue to try to work through your emotions and let her know you love her, let her know in time you will forgive her, that you want a future with her, that she is here now and that's what matters to you. Reassure her that she is a good person who just made a poor choice and together you guys will change and beat it. And lovebusts you make will make her feel even worse, she is probably feeling like the gum on the bottom of a muddy boot covered in crap.

To be honest though - this is something she has to work through, and you may not be able to make it better or worse. It's a long process for a FWW to learn to forgive herself and respect herself again. It's hard to even look in the mirror - especially if she is like me and it was so out of character and something you never thought would happen.

Do you think she would come to Marriage Builders? I know that many of the FWW helped me get through everything. It was nice knowing other women out there felt how I felt and have gone through what I was going through.

The biggest thing you can do is keep working on your feelings. For most of us FWW, we can't forgive ourselves until we know our H's are going to be okay...because as long as they are devestated and hurt, we know it was all our faults and find ourselves unforgivable...

Mulan,

her actions right now actually sound like someone who has gone past withdrawel and now into the horrible guilt and remorse, the shame, the feeling unworthy and the feeling of being a horrible person, and the fact that all of a sudden the A isn't making sense anymore are good signs that she is out of the A, and out of the fog and realizing what she has done.

Although I could be off base here, but based on my own experience and lots of the FWW I see on here, that horrible stage usually comes after withdrawel, not during the A still

HLR - do you KNOW for sure there is NC?

You know what - nevermind...i forgot that she still talks to him through work, and some of her other actions - if you are SURE there is NC...then it is possible she is at the remorse stage, but if there is contact still, then Mulan is probably right HLR...

Hi Dorry,

I understand what you mean and I know that this can/does happen with a FWS, but on HLR's other thread he described his wife's behavior in detail and it sounded nothing like this.

I'd be very happy if you are right and I am wrong on this one -- but her actions do not match her words at all, not as reported by HLR.
Mulan

That's why I retyped after that you may be right...I had forgotten all the other stuff about her still contacting him for business, MY hopes though - is all that attitude was just during her withdrawel...and perhaps her head is coming out of the fog now and she is really seeing what she did...one can always hope.

HLR - you have to push NC one way or another if you aren't sure. I know it sucks...but it's nessessary....

Actually dorry,


What you have said makes a great deal of sense and is exactly how I think she is feeling. That’s why I asked what I can do to help her!

As for communication she has told me she knows she can never see him again, she also has only talked to him twice and has informed me when it has occurred. Since the time we discussed NC; she has told me she will never initiate a contact and has told him that they can no longer continue communicating unless there is an urgent work related matter and in that case she will tell me of all of those occurrences.

She has told me that she originally thought they could keep a business relationship but doesn’t see that as practical, unless it directly affects her company, which she has said the current CEO and COO don’t wish him to have any involvement. So his relationship with their company is dying.

I’m just unsure if I should continue discussing what has happened or if I should give her some time to reflect on her own?

Its always okay to push NC - she might get mad - but it's a must.

If she said NC on her own during her fog, then NC was really an easy letdown goodbye that leaves the door open for many OM's....I did it that way too, until a month later OM was still finding reasons to contact me, until H and I sent the NC letter together. I know you said her OM was finding reasons to contact her - I REALLY think a letter has to be sent by the two of you. Maybe now that she seems to be out of her fog, its time to get that done?

I have a couple of thoughts I would like to share:

I would like to spend some time with my W and discuss all of my concerns and ask if she would help elevate them?

Honesty, truly honest…Let me dig with your help?
Why any continued contact, when it hurts me?
NC letter?
Help fight for our marriage!
Do all of these things to help me believe in you!

This might turn into a huge LB!!?

I have been thinking of calling the OM…I do have his phone number and tell him to leave my wife alone, actually I have been thinking of telling him to meet me! Not even sure he would but it she would feel great to tell him in person!

Looking for any suggestions before I make a fool out of myself.