It pains me to be here writing this and it troubles to me to no end to see so many others going through the same things. How did the world get like this? Enough pity.

My WW and I will be married 6 years in December. Honestly, I am having trouble seeing how we are going to get there. I had suspicions starting about 2 years ago. Our neighbor paid way too much attention to my wife. I expressed my concerns and was assured nothing was going on and in fact she didn't even notice anything unusal. Of course wanting to believe my wife was easy. Around this time she would bring up moving, to a different state, sometimes far away, seemingly out of no where. I usually dismissed this since there were many things she didn't consider, like jobs, money to move, being away from family, etc.. I wonder now if this was a plea to get away from what she was doing/considering doing. Our marriage was o.k. We had our ups and downs but I never for a minute would believe she would cheat on me. Ha!

A few days after x-mas 2004 and less than a month after our 5 year anniversary, we get into a huge fight. Funny, now I can't even tell you what it was about. She announces she wants a divorce. I was stunned. A few days later things seem to subside and I suggest some MC. We had talked before we got married and agreed if it ever came to it we would go see someone if we were in trouble. My WW was less than enthusiastic about going to see a MC. She didn't really see the benefit. In Jan. she then announces we should seperate, spend some time apart to think.Now that I found MB, I laugh at how easy it is to spot the babble, the fog, the WW-speak. I tell her I don't think(separating) this is a good idea. She lets it go for a while and then comes back pushing it hard.

I call a MC and find out when we can come in. I also ask the MC what are the chances of MC saving us. She says "Well, if there isn't a third party involved, the chances are quite good, usually communication is the big issue." At this point alarm bells start going off, and yet I still don't think there is someone else. I agree to go spend some time at a friend's house. My WW basically won't let me leave. I pack the bag, she starts crying, I start crying, this goes on for three days. Finally, I take the bag when I leave for work one day and I don't come home. My WW calls me often and even seemed a bit angry that I wasn't calling her much. It wasn't my idea and I was a little bent out of shape. On the second day I don't come home she calls and tells me she wants me home. I was kind of shocked, but I hustled right home.

In the next session with the MC she asks about our seperation and is surprised it is over so soon. My WW then makes it sound like she was under great pressure to have me home, but no one knew I was gone. I was fairly convinced while I was gone she was trying to meet someone else or set up a meeting at our house. When I came home I started looking at things like the cell phone, and the computer much more critically. The cell phone had names and numbers of men I didn't know. I installed a key logger to get a password for her email and I stumbled across her IM'ing people all day. She is a stay at home mom for our two kids. I was freaked out by the IM'ing but I didn't know what to do. I also couldn't figure out who they were since the screen names were so goofy. In any event she started doing gofy things when I got home from work, like suddenly remembering to return a movie, or going for ice cream. Things she never did and could have done all day. These were times she went to use the cell phone. She got sloppy and left the IM running one day so I got on and acted like her. I got off but someone asked her about it the next day since she asked me what I was doing on the IM. The other people knew it was out of character for her to be on at night, they didn't know why she wasn't on at night, they thought she was divorced. I deflected it since I was/is a conflict avoider with her and I always end up looking and feeling like dirt when these things happen.

Then basically the IM'ing came to an end. We were going to MC and I was working hard to be a better husband/father. At MC everything was my fault, I wasn't fun, didn't have interest in the kids, wasn't romantic, unemotional, not affectionate, etc... I admit I wasn't the great romantic but I do try, I leave her notes, I buy flowers for no reason, I got a sitter(as a surprise out of the blue) so we could go out and made all the plans myself. I surprised her with a weekend away, I even did the packing. Emotion and affection are things I have to work at but I do work at them. So, we continue at MC, I frequently ask my WW how we are doing and she always responds with "I am cautious and hopeful, I haven't made up my mind". I guess from these statements she is considering giving up the marriage. Somewhere in April the wheels come off the wagon, no more SF. Things aren't bad but something isn't right either. No more Im'ing. WW just maintains the kids are wearing her out and I don't understand. Understand I give the kids a bath every night and put them both to bed, after playing with them for a while. WW decides we stop MC or find someone else since the current one isn't doing much. in May we have a family vacation. We go and seem to have a pretty good time but still no SF and WW seems unhappy throughout the vacation. We get home and we are right back in the grind, the kids are wearing her out, etc...

I happen to look at the computer one day before I go to work and I notice MSN messenger running. One contact listed, my [email]F@#$$^[/email] neighbor. I go back through the logs, which I haven't looked at it close to two months, and see stuff that literally makes me vomit. Great way to start the day. I do some further investigation and figure out that they are planning a middle of the day meeting, while my mom watches the kids. I let her know I know what is going on, she denies it, I further ask her not to hurt me, she gets mad throws a fit. I hire a P.I. and he follows her and gets pictures of them together in a secluded spot. I tell the OMW. This was before I found this site. Mistake by me since my WW and OM then concoct the "we are just friends story and we knew you would react this way". I don't believe it. WW says we should just give up and "let me go". I say I won't divorce and I will fight for our marriage. WW finds out I hired a P.I. and then all ****** breaks loose. We need to divorce, how can I trust you, how could I do such a thing... I feel like dirt, again.

In the meantime, OMW has called and wants to talk to WW to find out the story. She is also upset when she reviews the cell bills. Unfortunately, she only knows the half of it since OM calls my WW from his work phone. My WW avoids her. Finally, OMW, OM and WW end up on the phone with me in the other room. OMW says OM and WW can't be friends anymore. Basically, NC. My WW says "I want to hear OM say we can't be frieds", I think WW really thought OM was going to say WW and I are in love and we are going off together. OM says we can't be friends and hangs up. WW is devasted. I had found MB by this time and was working on plan A. I was waiting to be the rock, since I knew they were still IM'ing after D-Day. I then see the IM's turn angry on my WW part. She is upset because she feels used and lied to. However, I am concerned because she is still contacting him through IM.

Our house goes up for sale and we sell it in 10 days. The neighbors have an inkling about the situation. My WW is painted as the block's ho. My WW is deeply upset by this. I know because she told me and she is pissed at OM because he is content to let this happen to her while he appears as an innocent bystander. OM makes it out like WW pursued him. I know it was the other way in the beggining.My WW gets him to admit this in an IM session and then saves the whole transcript. She tells me about the IM session. I already knew. She says she did it for herself so she knew the truth. I think she did it, to threaten him. Sure enough she does threaten him with exposure. The IM'ing continues. My WW is hurt because he doesn't contact her, it looks like OM and OMW are working things out, etc...

Which brings us to now. D-day was June 1, 2005. WW and I just had a great weekend away for her birthday, after I threw her a surprise party the week before, and she IM's the OM on Monday. She says I miss you, hurt you weren't at my party, etc... I notice in her email an e-card from herself. I know she wouldn't send a card to herself. Sure enough OM sent it. In the IM session she suggests they can get together at our new house. My son starts pre-school two days a week. She says maybe you can just go to work late one day. Last night she went to the shore with the kids and she calls me late at night to tell me she misses me and she loves me. Is this guilt? This morning she calls me early right before I leave to tell me the same things and wish me a good day at work. More guilt? Or is she simply trying to make me think all is well. She has never in the past ever done anything like that.

So, the question is how long do I go in plan a? I understand 6 months is the standard but I don't know if I take this much more. I feel like plan b is right, but I don't make enough money to support two places and we can't put the kids in daycare. I also don't want to leave my kids. Why do I have to leave? Even if I could make her leave what do I do with the kids?

Hello,

What a sad story. There cannot be recovery if there is still contact with the OM. I am sorry to say this but it seems clear she is not dedicated to recovery. She is what they call a cakewoman. She wishes to remain married with all of the benefits but also wishes to stay in contact with the OM after all of the tremendous damage and hurt she has given to you and your marriage. She was hurt that he did not show up for her surprise party? All of the betrayed spouses know she has been screwing this guy and she is upset that he did not show up for a surprise party thrown by you? Did she expect you to shake his hand and say thanks for having sex with my wife behind my back? This shows such a total lack of respect and remorse toward you. She just does not get it and it sounds like she has no intention of getting it. The bottom line is do not listen to her words but to her actions and her actions speak volumes. She is upset he does not show up for her surprise party....Unbelievable. That would have been the final straw for me. I wish you luck.

IMHO, the blinders are starting to come off and she is really confused. She is still emotionally/phsyically intwined with OM, so she doesn't have the strength to break it off. She realizes that this thing with OM is going nowhere.

This may not make sense to you, but intellectually she realizes that this thing with OM is going nowhere and is extremely dangerous. Emotionally, though, she is still addicted to him, so she can't stop. It is like smokers--they know it is killing them, but they don't have the ability to stop smoking.

My suggestion is to continue with plan A but inform OMW that they are still communicating. Be brutal about it. You might even tell OMW that you think they are planning to get together during the week. You don't want to reveal your sources to her, but you need to keep up the pressure.

Generally, try to avoid the thought that "the OM is evil and he caused the A." The problem is with HER, not with OM.

Another phone call to the OMW might do the trick. Or go see her with proof.

NC is NC. NC has been broken..and it looks like by your WW first of all.

Tell OMW about this site.

I take it you have not confronted your W about the further contact and the ""Meeting at your new house when the kids are at pre-school and OM can go to work late one day next week???""

OUCH!! That gives you a good idea of where her mind is.

OM does not want to lose the family/wife/house/$$$/life style/possesions he has now..which was why he said BYBY and hung up on your WW,(making his W happy). One more exposure to his W or a threat of this exposure may scare him good.

What has your relationship been with this neighbor? Seems a weird sitch.

k

Ah, sitch... We were "good friends". The OMW is a lunatic. Seriuosly. She never bothered me, but my WW couldn't stand her. More so when the A got underway, I think

My WW watched their son in our home. That is when I think things began to take off. I had trouble in the gut, but I ignored it. Stupid. We did things together, go to movies, out to eat, etc... now that a lot of this has come out, people have told me they thought the OM showed my WW a little too much attention.

I got to the point where I simply refused to do anything with them. That is the big sticking point, right now. My WW flatly told me on more than one occasion that I don't see or talk to OM anymore. So, D-day was her saying I am sorry I hid the relationship from you, we were just friends. Nothing happend.

My concern is if I go to the OMW she will go off the deep end. I strongly suspect she will throw him out. He is a self-centered, materialistic, ******. his wife has a good job and makes more than him. She still makes good money only working a few days a week. She only works a few days now because my WW stopped watching their son. There is no doubt he chose his wife for all the reasons you listed, plus more. OM cheated on his current wife with her sister right before they got married. I didn't find this out until this year. I wonder why? How can my wife be intagled in this mess knowing what he is all about?

I am getting sick writing this down.

That's the thing. How can I tell anyone without revealing sources. I see all the posts saying "I know, don't worry how , I know but I know". I know the OMW will believe me. The thing is he operates from work on his pc and work phone, the "meetings" seem to be during work hours.

How do I pull WW from this mess? I know it has to be her choice and she has to do it, but...

I am aware of the cakeeater and fencesitter terms. The question is how do I get her to put down the cake or get off the fence? My understanding of plan A is a way to negotiate the end of the A, make the place a safe haven, show her the way home. Is it really just a set up for plan b?

Hawk,

"There is no doubt he chose his wife for all the reasons you listed, plus more."

Tell him you totally will tell his W if you ever get wind of him contacting your wife again. Tell him to block her from his email account. You can then send an email to him from her email and see if it bounces back undeliverable. (I think they bounce back that way)

Didn't you say you moved from the neighborhood?

k

I am leaning toward telling the OM to never have contact or the OMW gets everything I have and it is extensive. The other thing is the OM is terrified of losing his son. I may need to remind him of this possibility. The thing is everything I have seen says to ignore the OM, not to give them the satisfaction. We make settlement on our current home aug. 30 and then settle on the new place sept. 9. I can't get out of there fast enough. I think I must be the lunatic for even trying to make this work.

O.k so here's the update. Last night I drive to the beach to see my wife and kids. Why are they at the beach? Hold on everyone here's where the story gets good. My FIL is going to jail. Why is he going to jail? My MIL had an affair and announced she wanted a divorce. It took a while for the affair part to come out. My FIL found out when someone "exposed" her. He went of the deep end and threatened to kill her, the boyfriend and everyone else. My WW has been devasted by this(perhaps because she is making the same mistakes?), she has been as critical and full of venom toward MIL the whole time. Once the affair part came out, it has been look out below.

So, last night I surprise her and things are good. I pick up he cell phone to see who has called and who she has called. Well she flips out. "You don't trust me, I can't live like that, you said you would trust me.. blah..blah" I said if you don't have anything to hide what's the difference. She said I don't have anything to hide, I don't have any privacy, you try to control me...etc...

Now she's like I don't know if this can go on. You don't know how it makes me feel. She says "I already have great guilt and you are making it worse..."

I feel like dirt, again. The rollercoaster is starting to wear me down. Any insight you folks can provide I would really appreciate.

My wife pulls the same thing with regard to my checking up on things -- "privacy, control, no respect of boundaries ..." and I usually get sucked in. Except that more often than not, I find that there is something there that she does not want me to see.

I know I have my own issues and you probably do too; but until W faces and deals with hers, I can't see things improving. I'm just as lost as you are, so I cant' provide anything but empathy.

Perhaps you should suggest that she come here and read some of SH's advice? He makes it pretty clear that there should be no privacy within a marriage...that it only leads to SECRETS.

And perhaps you might let her know that the only way she's going to re-build that trust between the two of you is by DEMONSTRATING trustworthiness. By letting you check up on her so that you can SEE that she's being trustworthy. The problem is, she hasn't been, and that doesn't just come back overnite. She has to EARN it back.

I seriously suggest that ya'll seek marriage counseling. Find someone who is PRO marriage. And at the same time, make it VERY clear to your wife that there is no way that your marriage can heal if she has ANY kind of contact with OM...and if she continues to keep ANY kind of secrets from you at all.

Just my thoughts...

I thought that I would add that my wife had some of the very same responses dealing with her EA.

She didn't realize that I was checking her email. I had told her that I would be, but she just blew it off. Then she got an email from OM (after about two weeks of NC)...and I waited to see if she would tell me about it. Instead, she replied to it and didn't mention it until one morning I broke down and asked her bluntly if he'd tried contacting her...and then all ****** broke loose.

She was furious...I had "invaded her privacy". But once that finally led to an NC letter, and finally to NC itself, she completely turned around on the subject. She told our MC that she understood why I was checking on her...it wasn't that I didn't trust her anymore, it was how I could reassure myself that everything was going like it should be.

But while she's still in the fog, it's almost impossible to reason with her.

Hang in there friend...it can get better!

I have thought about suggesting to her the MB site. I am ready to move to the big guns.

The thing is she has only gone so far as to say "keeping the friendship a secret was a mistake", she hasn't said it was an affair, either EA or PA.

MC has been on the table again but after reading some more on this site and others, is there a benefit if she is still in contact. There hasn't been any physical contact since D-day but they IM whenever they get the chance. WW almost defintely is still pursuing this, although OM isn't saying don't contact me. I know my wife, she HATES to be wrong. It has to be killing her that he has chosen his wife over her after all the smoke he must have blown to get to her.

Hmmm...if they're IMing everyday, then have you thought about disabling your computer during the day? Or having internet removed completely?

And have you told her point blank that her IM'ing OM will prevent your marriage from healing? There is NO WAY that you can re-build your trust in her if she's in contact with him in any way at all. PERIOD. And she needs to understand that...once that friendship crossed the line, it became DEADLY to your marriage. Make it clear to her that she can't have both...she needs to end her relationship with him completely. Don't threaten, just make it clear that you're not willing to 'share' her with a third person.

Make it very clear how much you love her, and how hard you're willing to do your part in fixing the marriage. But she's got to do her part too...and that starts by ENDING IT WITH OM!!!

Good luck friend.

See, that's the thing. How do I get her to understand I am checking to reassure myself rather than find something. this fog thing is getting to be a bit much.

DH - I do have issues, but the one thing I have learned is ww made a choice to have an A. It wasn't my fault. I may have done things(or not done things) to contribute but when push came to shove she still had a choice.

What I can't understand is how ww can make plans with me for the future, have a great weekend away, act unbelievably sorry for the hurt and then simply contact OM and try to figure out a "get together". How can someone live two lives? Lying in both of them. I couldn't do it.

I need the computer and internet because sometimes I work from home. I "fixed" the computer once and she freaked and spent the day on the phone with technical support and unfixed it. Disabling the pc, makes me think if I have to do that, why bother?

Watching the IM'ing has lead me to believe the thing is unraveling. They argue more often than not. WW gets upset with OM. WW says like "you used to make me feel better and now you don't", so it leads me to believe plan a is working or at least having some effect.

The question is will plan a be enough to end it? Is plan a a way to make it end?

I really can't answer that last question, Hawk. I worked through recovery of my marriage before I learned about MB, and Plan A and B.

My situation was much different. The affair truly died (or at least started dying) shortly after d-day. Take a look on the recovery board for my story if you like, but in my case my wife had an online EA that lead to him buying her plane tickets to live with him when I discovered it. She didn't go (at his urging, because he knew she was unsure of her choice), and that was the death blow to the affair. It took a while longer for things to end...they IM'ed each other a few times afterwards, and she had to work through her withdrawl before she made the choice to work on our marriage. But the contact had GREATLY dropped off immediately after she returned home when she didn't get on the plane to go be with him.

Plan A is done while negotiating with the WS to end contact, as I understand it. I didn't do a lot of negotiating when it came to that...I made it very clear that I didn't like it. And every week at MC she'd tell our counselor that they had decided to break off contact...and then every week it would resume within a few days. It all came to a head when contact resumed (by him) AFTER she'd decided to work on the marriage. I made it VERY clear that there was NO WAY we could move forward if he was in the picture in any way...she was following the standard script of wanting to 'remain just friends' with him, but I made it very clear that that friendship would never be acceptable or trustworthy again, and that it had to end for us to work on being 'us again'.

Hopefully this provides a little insight on the advice I've given...and hopefully you'll get more advice from the 'pro's' around here.

I'm having the same confusion, -- one minute W is talking about our next family vacation and the next she is dressing up to "go out". She says I have to back off to allow her to work through this, (no admissions) but I'm feeling like a sap working to be a good husband when it appears I'm being played for a chump.

Your story resonates with me - except that I don't have the confirmation that you have had. Keep writing ...

confusedhawk,

I'm kind of an old schooler here, so you might not recognize me. But, I want fill you in on a couple of things. If she hasn't admitted to the affair yet, you really haven't hit a true dday. And, from my experience here, your wife is involved in a PA. Prepare yourself mentally for that admission now. I can't stress that enough. DDAY is when your wife admits that to you, out of her own mouth...until then, everything is still lies, and I don't believe you can honestly begin recovery.

Secondly...you know enough now to realize that what she is doing is still going on. Don't lie to yourself. You can not control her actions, but, you can affect them and his. You have a wonderful tool at your disposal, the OM is MARRIED. I can't stress you can't use this enough to your advantage.

But, what I can say for you here is how you act now will be a big part of your own recovery. I would like to tell you I look back and think about my own actions and how happy I am with what I did. I'm not, I get frustrated at times over what I enabled. I should have taken a harder stance on certain issues, I think at times...it's hard to say. But, ultimately, my FWW and I are home together and pretty happy at this point (almost 2 yrs later)...don't let her control you because you are afraid of losing her. I understand how badly you want her, and want your marriage to survive, but also understand if you don't respect yourself when you wake up, and when you go to sleep, it's gonna be a long road for you. When your wife finally understands that you do love her, but you will no longer live as a hostage in your own marriage, she will most likely start to sing another tune. The fact is, she is with a married guy and he has already turned tail to his wife once, showing he isn't all that committed to your wife.

You can't stop her from doing whatever she wants, unfortunately, we control other people, only ourselves. You can control what you are exposed to and what you will endure. I think you are very close to the point of plan b.

Hang in there.