Plan A ?Plan B ?

Bollocks to them. PROTECT YOUR CHILDREN !
You and yoru W are ROLE MODELS from your kids, you are TEACHING them how to handle relationships.

Your meekness is turning infidelity into a hereditary disease.

Sort your self out - Your kids are in the house when your W is screwing another man !!!!

This is WARPED ! Your W is not capable of rational thought right now as she is in the throes of an affair but that makes YOU twice as responsible for their safety.

GET your WW and BF out of your house and get yourself back in there pronto.

Set some boundaries NOW RIGHT NOW !

Physically evict WW and OM if you must just get yourself and your kids safe.

Only THEN does rescuing your marriage become a priority.

Writing plan B letter swhile your kids watch their Mom canodle with another man ?

Get counselling legal and marital RIGHT NOW.

* edited for over emotional response

Bob...thank you.

I did need a kick in the A**

I am in a much better frame of mind this afternoon although I don't know how long it will last. I have called my Attorney and am awaiting a call back. I am going to do what I can to get them out now. THat being said I am not sure that I have a lot of hope of that. THere is a court order pending Div that gives her the house and kids M-F and me the same F-M. I am going to see if I can get infront of the judge tomorrow morning but we'll see. I am charged up about this and thank you again. I just hope I can keep the fire in my belly long enough.

If it was me I would take my children to safety regardless of the legal position. The law is an [censored] if it does not support a parent who wants to raise children in righteousness.

When Squid was prepareing to move in with OM I prepared everything so I could have moved my kids to Dubai with two phone calls.

And I SWEAR I would have done it in a heartbeat rather than have OM near my kids.

You OWE them SC. You OWE your kids your protection.

Who else will do it ?

Wow. Seeking Change...

Amongst all of this, all I can see is drama that you in a sense are encouraging. All of us BS are pretty silly at times, telling ourselves all sorts of things to try and give us hope. I wish I could give you strength, comfort, anything...instead, I'm gonna give you something else, and I'm sorry up front.

Be a man. Stop this pathetic driveling and draw a line in the sand for yourself. OM, he's pretty lucky to have lived through that confrontation with you, and I suspect he probably is a bit 'bigger' physically, for you to not have attacked him on the spot. But, the better for you for not engaging in that. Yes, you are stalking her, so stop it. This is your wife, but, I think you can see that she also isn't at this time. She has made a decision, as you did also...your marriage really is a wreck, with no boundaries in place anymore. What do you want?

I don't think you even know...be a man, make a plan, and attack that plan.

Ok...spoke with my Attorney. Heres what he had to say...

Unless I have a substantial reason to believe that my children are at risk of Physical danger there really is nothing I can do legaly. That being said...He did somewhat threaten me this am. but it may not be enough to get a protection from harrasment order which would keep him out of my residence and away from my children & could very well hurt me in my divorce.

As far as the house goes...the only way to get her out and have my kids there is to make a motioin pending Div. to settle the assetts and custody. He believes that there is very little chance that I will get the house and custody of my children 100%. The court will look at it as me being bitter and trying to use them to get revenge.

So I have two options...

1. Try for the harrassment order that I probably won't get and may hurt my future efforts to help my kids

2. File a motion to get court ordered child support and no longer have to pay all house hold bills which would leave her pennieless (she doesn't work) and to fend for herself. Her family has already told her and me that unless she ends this A and works on her M that they are not available to help her. She has only one friend who will help because she is an advocate for the A and Div. but I don't believe that would work for very long. This could cause her to re-evaluate (kind of a plan b, I suppose). She has shown in the past that when I am not available and backed off that she misses me and comes back for a few days. That being said I also take the chance of OM moving in permenantly...

This is why I am so confused...if I take my kids away from the situation...I will be in comtempt and will most likely go to jail for up to 30 days...which would cause me to lose my job and lose my kids forever.

Knowing this can anyone give me some advice on how I can protect them otherwise...are there any other options that I might be missing?

suggestions would be great right now...

Well, he isn't abusing the kids, as far as you know... so, you do have to accept the reality that she may indeed remarry to OM. He may even move into your 'old' house... all of these things are not your decisions to make. Right now, your decisions are these...

1. Do you forgive your wife?
2. Do you want to keep living inside this drama?
3. Do your children know you love them?
4. Do you make the most of your time with your kids when you have them?
5. How long are you willing to provide everything financially for your wife?

At this point, based on what I've seen, I'd press for the divorice to move forwards. She's cheated on you twice, and you on her once...I think everyone involved would do better to move forwards, and at worst case (best case possibly) is to get the divorice, and try to become friends for your childrens sake. Then who knows what the future might hold for the two of you.... I am pretty sure she will not budge from her current position until you make some sort of a move, Words will not cut through this mess.... lack of words would probably serve more purpose, as at least she might start to get a sense of you have had enough.

Time to move forwards.

"1. Do you forgive your wife?"

Yes...I know this is not really her but some alien.

"2. Do you want to keep living inside this drama?"

No

"3. Do your children know you love them?"

Yes I make sure of that everyday

"4. Do you make the most of your time with your kids when
you have them?"

Yes

"5. How long are you willing to provide everything financially for your wife?"

I would be willing to forever provided she was committed but in this case no more...I just can continue to feel used anylonger

BTW...I have just requested an appointment with Steve H.

Waiting for confirmation...

Your W sounds like she is very much in the situation that I was in. You royally screwed up in your part of the M. Now, part of her feels very justified in having her A. She has to be very confused. She has 2 men in her life and you are at negative 1000 in her love bank and the OM is way positive. But, she is still conflicted bc she loves you, she has a family with you,etc. She is saying "why should I give up a great guy for "trying" to get past all the hurt and distrust?" I say you go to her GENTLY and tell her that you love her and don't want a D, but that you have decided to go ahead and move it forward. You also tell her that it is completely IMMORAL for her to have the OM at your home with the kids present. Tell her kindly that it is unacceptable and leave it at that. EVERY LAWYER WORTH A GRAIN OF SALT WOULD ORDER HER NOT TO HAVE OM AROUND THE KIDS. Clearly, bc the D is on hold, her attorney is not aware of this. If she won't agree that it is wrong to have the OM spend the night, then have your attorney write a letter to her attorney that the judge will see that you cannot tolerate the OM in your home with the kids for overnights. The judge and your WW lawyer won't like what she is doing. Then, I think that you should Plan B. Leave things at peace with her, that you will accept her choice to be with OM, that you love her and you are sorry that you could not make it work. Tell her that until you can heal that you don't want to talk with her for a while and to go through family members re kid stuff. Then sit back and pray! The key is to make her MISS you. Make her realize that it will be over for sure unless she makes the next move. She has to WANT to work on the M, bc you have a ton of work to do. She has to make that choice. But you have to be willing to accept the consequences of your own actions, and that it might mean that you lose her.
What I think is that she is completely confused. The fact that she is still so back and forth with you says to me that she still wishes it could work. You are still filling certain very important emotional needs that the OM is not. Personally, I think that being so nice looks wimpy and it enables her to have her cake and eat it too. She has a very short history with the OM and she must have doubts about the future of the relationship. Just STRESS that you would have been willing to work like crazy to be a better husband to her, and that it kills you that you have hurt her so much. Tell her that you want her to be happy and that you wish you could have been the one to work to do it. Hopefully not having you around to fill the needs that you DO fill will really get her to start thinking about trying to save the M.......

Seeking,

There is no way you can get a restraining order against the OM saying that he can't come within 100 feet of them??

Talk to your kids very carefully and quiz them on the OM and what he does to/with them. Does he try to discipline or punish them? Does he hug& squeeze them too much? Do your kids see mommy and "uncle ernie" snuggling on the couch, etc,etc.? Does mommy ignore them for hours at a time while she and "uncle ernie" are elsewhere? Does he smoke? Do they like him or are they terrified of him??

They are much happier when you are at the house, I'm sure of it, because you can devote you TOTAL attention on them.

If there are some positive answers from your kids concerning OM, then run like the wind to your lawyer to start a restraining order on the bum!!

(I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV.) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

k

I totally disagree about questioning the kids. All professionals advise against that. He is not a physical threat to anyone so you can't get a restraining order.

I am in a much better place mentaly today kind of an acceptance I guess. I have committed myself to letting go and moving forward. I have not spoken to WW since yesterday morning. THat has been hard but I am trying. I guess at this point I feel like there is nothing more I can do other than continue to get counseling and move forward.

Againstallodds...thank you for the advice. I guess I was already feeling that way to a certain extent. I have written the Plan B letter already which I believe contains most of that language. If you wuld be so kind as to look at it in the earlier post and add/change anything I would be greatful.

Just needing to vent a little...

Got a phone call from WW this morning. SHe wanted to talk about the kids at first. She said that what I had done yesterday was immature and rediculous. That I was completely CRAZY out of my mind. She said that I had screwed up big time. I explained that After the previous weekend and the things she told me and her brother about ending the A and comming back I had so much hope, that because our 6wk agreement was up on Wed. (that prior eve) I had set myself up with so much hope and had convinced myself that it was finaly all over. And then when I found that OM had spend the night I was completely crushed. I allowed my emotions to get the better of me. She said that she was very angry about how I had acted and was going to end it and come back until this happened now she doesn't know (horse SH**) Just another excuse...

We talked a bit and she said that she hadnt given up yet and was willing to see how things go for awhile. I told her that I want the marriage to work and want to be the one to do the work for awhile but that until she was committed to the M and had ended the A it would never work. I told her that I was just going to let things move forward and that I would respect her Decision if she didn't want to try, but that I loved her and hoped things came around someday. I told her that the cycle of emotions and drama has to stop somewhere and can not continue any longer. She became very quiet and somber...

I told her again that I loved her and didnt want this but that again until she wanted to commit to me I could do no more. I said goodbye...she said I do love you, but I just don't know. I said well maybe you will figure that out but I needed to move on for my own sanity and in order to preserve what I had left. She said that she would call me later...I told her that I did not want her to. To figure out what was important and if she was willing to commit before we spoke again. That was the end of the conversation and now I am feeling weak again. I have to and am going to stick to this it is either let her go with hope of getting her back in the future or continue to push her away and go insane.

It is with the heaviest of hearts that I write this letter Because of this and my enormous amount of love for you that I am very saddened by what has happened to our marriage.

The past 13 years have been filled with many good times. We’ve had a wonderful life. I’ve loved you this entire time: through sickness and health, children, moves, financial difficulties and separation. I have not been a perfect husband and I have not met your emotional needs as I should. I am sincerely sorry for having not given you everything that you deserve. I have made a lot of poor decisions in the past year more out of confusion and not knowing what to do. But the feelings that I have had for you and our marriage prior continuing now will never fade. I have always loved you and will always love you.

SO FAR SO GOOD, BUT I WOULD TAKE OUT THAT YOU WILL ALWAYS LOVE HER AND YOUR FEELINGS WON'T FADE. THEY WILL AND THEY SHOULD AND SHE NEEDS TO KNOW THAT--SHE WILL KNOW THAT INSTINCTIVELY.

Our marriage is at a place that is very confusing and painful and though I know my past indiscretions and poor decisions have a tremendous affect on your feelings, your relationship outside of our marriage is

IT IS WRONG AND HURTFUL TO ME AND OUR KIDS.


very hurtful to me. Your relationship with OM is keeping us from restoring our marriage, is continuing to pull it apart and is confusing and hurting our children. The way you drop into and out of our lives is beyond difficult.

I WOULD TAKE OUT WHAT YOU WRITE BELOW THAT IS COMPLAINING ABOUT HOW BADLY SHE IS TREATING YOU--IT WON'T BE ATTRACTIVE AND IT WON'T HELP ANYTHING

I cannot scramble for the crumbs of attention that you offer. Your distance and sporadic contact undermines my love for you. You continue to tell me that you love me; you will hug me and hold me tightly and then call or run off to him.

You can not have both of us and I can not and will not share you any longer.

GOOD
Until you decide to end this affair and in order to preserve the tremendous amount of love I have for you, I must insist that we no longer contact each other. If you need to reach me, we can do so through your brother or Ernie and Julie. I would like to have the children be able to contact me directly as they wish. I will maintain my financial responsibilities and will do everything possible to care for and spend time with my children

PUT SOMETHING IN ABOUT CONTINUING WITH THE DIVORCE AND SAY DIRECTLY BUT POLITELY THAT YOU WILL NOT AGREE TO HER ALLOWING ANOTHER MAN THAT SHE IS UNMARRIED TO TO SPEND THE NIGHT WITH THE KIDS IN THE HOME--YOU CAN PUT THIS IN THE DIVORCE DECREE

BELOW, WRITE "IF" B/C YOU DON'T KNOW IF SHE WILL AND ASSUMING SO IS NOT ATTRACTIVE. SHE NEEDS TO KNOW THAT YOU ARE GOING TO MOVE ON FOR YOUR SAKE AND ONCE THE D IS FINAL THEN THERE IS NO GOING BACK

Once you have ended your affair, we may then resume contact and begin discussing how best to put our marriage back together.

OR AFTER THE DIVORCE IS FINAL, YOU HOPE THAT YOU CAN WORK TOGETHER AS PARENTS FOR THE KIDS TO HEAL

This being said WS; I love you and I am committed to this marriage. I believe our marriage can come out of this stronger and better. As I have told you I am willing to do whatever it takes. I am already making changes with in myself to ensure that I am meeting all of your emotional needs. I have the greatest of confidence that we can build a much stronger and more wonderful marriage if we both committed to making it happen. I hope that you will think hard on this. I miss my best friend. I miss my life partner, my wife, the mother of my children, my first and only true love. There is no one else with whom I would rather spend my life. In order for this to work though, you have to be willing to participate. In order to rebuild our marriage, we will have to go with a plan to restore the love, such as Marriage Builders which you have read a bit about and we will have to seek counseling together. I believe you love me and I know this is all so confusing for you. Time will heal and love will grow WS. I would love to walk through the rest of my life with you as a committed, honest, loving partner. I love you greatly



SORRY THAT I AM SO INEPT WITH THE COMPUTER. I HAVE PUT MY COMMENTS IN CAPITALS BC I DONT KNOW HOW TO DO THE BOLD FACE THAT OTHERS DO! IT IS A GREAT LETTER AND I AM PRAYING FOR YOU THAT SHE WILL SEE THE OUT OF THE FOG AND COME TO YOU.

Thank you for the critique...

I am still not sure if Plan B is an option yet. Going to talk with Steve H on Monday hopefully that will help point me in a better Direction. Very Anxious right now for some reason. Requested an appt with a Local counselor as well hoping to get some AD Meds. Seems like this nightmare will never end. I believe that my wife wants to come back and work on things, but I also believe she is very confused. And this indecision is eating me up. I love her very much and truely believe that if I could just convince her to give me a chance we would be fine. She is being very stubborn and hurtful right now and just wont budge. If only there were some way to get her to see...
Thank you all for your continued support...I am taking your advice very seriously and seeking out the options which I can control. It is very hard to accept that the one thing I want and love more than anything in life may be gone forever.

seeking...

I think you should not go in to plan B...I think you need contact with her to have access to the children...

I think you start with children...
perhaps you should consider getting in to counseling with them..
I think they need a safe place to vent their feelings...
and also a neutral ground to do so....

I think you need to schmooze your wife just enough to appease her so that she DOES not make a move that more permanantly removes you from their lives...

I think you need to explain to your wife..without love busting
without anger
to the best of your ability the damage that you believe she causes bringing MEN into THEIR home...

kids can have really really crappy things going on in their lives...what every child needs is a safe place to land..
number one rule..
home must be safe..

safe homes have consistancy
safe homes have rules and boundaries that show care for the greater well being
safe home have privacy...

it is chaos for a child to come home to have to eat with moms boyfriend while married...

there is NOTHING OK or NORMAL about that....

and you need to explain this to your wife....
sincinctly
with love....

cause she's gonna fight you on this..and you defuse it by NONE of it being about you...
it's ALL about them...

You are still motivated by your own fear of losing your wife..when the greatest and greater threat is harm to your children..

and i am not saying this OP is a bad man and will hurt them...
I am saying the MESSAGE your wife is giving and teaching them is dangerous in the long run down the line..

like a cancer..
the more their normal becomes mom having boyfriend spend the night the more normalcy will be skewed forever...
so that when they have children..they will think nothing of replacing THEIR spouses for a different model...

that's why you must stay connected..
keep you friends close...
and your enemies closer..
speak you peace peacefully...
gently...
become a swan song in her ear..

I think this upsets the kids
I think the children are feeling scared
I think the children are afraid to hurt the adults

etc etc etc

speak to your children without blaming their mom...how you believe that even when grown ups arent' getting along there are right and wrong things to do..

Offer to take the kids each and every night she wants to have boyfriend over.
tell the kids to call you any time they want that as well..

your kids are losing their safe place
and you must treat lightly yet slyly to intercede...

do it halfhandedly..
call and say hey I'll take the kids out to eat tonight
I'm not telling you to go in with guns blazing

talk to your children...find out where their emotional compass is over all this and move from there...

ARK

Ark...

This is the most peaceful and direct piece of advice I have tever received. It actually gives me a bit of hope. You are right...I am operating in the fear that I am losing my wife. Even though My children are always a fear as well. I will put every effort into trying to refocus that.

WS is much calmer today as am I. We met with a BankRuptcy Att. today and while waiting she said to me that she still thinks that trying is what is best for the kids, but that my behavior (confrontation, calling her family etc...not keeping my word about not calling her family) makes her not want to. She told me that there is still hope but that she thinks I need to work on myself (me)first. I asked her to join me in my session with Steve H on Monday. She said she would think about it. I really hope she does because I don't think she really knows what I am feeling and how committed I am. That being said I don't really know what she is either. Atleast it is a step in the right direction.

I will put your advice to work and see what happens... Thank you again

I had another rough weekend but somehow it seems to be getting easier, Firday My WS asked me to send an apology to the OM for the confrontation last week. I reluctantly agreed but also made my point with him as well. Here is what I sent:

"I owe you an apology for yesterday. Let me explain my situation though it is no excuse.

I love my wife very much; we have 3 young children who have been through a lot in the past year as have I and my wife. Over the past few weeks We have spent some time together and talked a lot about our marriage and the possibility of putting it back together which has been my primary focus over the past several months. Last week and weekend based on things she had said to me and others I had reason to believe that my wife would be coming back to me so that we could start rebuilding our marriage. We had agreed on a 6 week period where she would try to make a decision which was up on Wednesday and we had made a lot of progress. Therefore I had gained so much hope that I convinced myself of it. When I found out that you were having dinner there on that very day I was obviously upset, what man wouldn’t be if his wife was spending time with another man. I tried to blow it off and called people for some support. I was unable to reach anyone which sent my mind swirling all night. When I drove by the house on my way to work (the same route I take everyday) I saw your vehicle there and was crushed. I pulled into the turn around and called some people again attempting to calm myself down. I allowed my emotions to get the better of me. When I saw you drive by I pulled out behind you. I don’t really know why…I had no intentions of a confrontation or of following you I was late for work as it was. I am sure you can appreciate my feelings on your relationship with my wife, and about you spending the night in my home with my children present. I am working very hard at trying to rebuild my marriage of almost 10 years and although your relationship with my wife is not the reason for this situation it does confuse my children and complicate things. Please try to understand the implications this has on my family and try to put yourself in my shoes. I am her husband who loves her very much and want very much to rebuild my marriage not only for my children but because I love my wife. I am sorry for causing that situation yesterday and assure you that there will be no further problem between you and I."

I printed a copy of this and gave it to my WS when she asked for it on Friday. Her response was "I hope your happy...youve ruined my weekend. I'm going to have to listen to Om all weekend now"

Wow...she actually expects me to care about that!

She left after having an episode with my 4 y/o turning his back on her when she went to say goodbye. That was painful for me to witness he wouldn't even acknowledge her. She left anyway and he was hysterical. I was so sorry to see him in that much pain over this and it really made me angry.

Then I didn't hear from her until noon on Saturday. She called and acted like there was nothing wrong. She asked me if the mail had come and I said yes she was looking for something from her mother. I told her it wasn' there. She was looking to come by the house to get it. I asked her what her plans were and she said she didn't know yet...so I asked her to come by and spend some time with us at my cousins pool. She made excuses and said you can't just act like there is nothing wrong. I said I wasnt but that if we were ever going to put it all back together we needed to spend time together. She then told me she was on her way to Boston with OM. More unimportant banter back and forth and I asked her if that meant that there was no chance. She wouldn't answer at first and then said no there is no chance. I was extremely emotional and pleaded with her for a few minutes and then just gave up. I took the kids home and allowed my anger to get me back to reality a bit. Didn't speak with her again unitl last night. I took my kids to my cousins for dinner at around 4:30. WS usually comes home on Sunday around 5pm to exchange the kids even though I am allowed by court to have them and house until Monday at 9am. She apparently showed up and called my cell. I didnt get the msg until around 6:30. I also got a text from her saying that the house was a mess (far better that what she left me on Friday) and that she wasnt playing games. THat she would see me on Mon. at 9am. I responded to say that I would have the kids home by 7:30pm that evening and she responded with Too late. and some other babble threats. I didnt respond at all. I was home by 7:30 and she was not there. then around 8:30 she called and started to give me crap and I interrupted and said "I'm not playing games I had the kids out for dinner and was planning on having them home by 7:30 and don't talk to me abut the house being a mess after what you left me on Friday, I have spent alot of the weekend picking up that. I didin't choose to leave this weekend to go play you did, I don't want this div. you are making that decision...you need to think long and hard about it and make sure that is what yu want because once it is done there's no going back and you will have to live with that decision. I don't agree with it and I don't respect it and I most certainly don't think it is what is best for the kids. You do what ever you think you need to but don't come to me for any favors or extras. If you decide to go forward that id your decision, if you decide to end your affair and put this family back together then we can discuss it until then goodbye. and I hung up. I was so angry with her for hurting my kids like this. What kind of mother does that?

I spoke with Steve H this am and we went over this, he doesn't think a Full blown Plan B is the right action right now but a Quasi one. Lay low, get the child supp. done so that I am not paying all the bills and allowing her to cake eat and send her a letter basically asking her to explore this Idea that we have not considered yet. Not to commit to it but to see if it is possible and also ask if she would speak with him so that he could get her perspective on everything in an effort to help him better understand and be able to help me better.

So...after that long ramble I have drafted the letter and sent it to Steve H for critique. Neither of us expect her to agree to any of it but it sets the stage for a full blown Plan B down the road. In the mean time I am filing a motion with the Div Court to get the Child Supp aranged and I am not going to do anything extra for her. Steve H believes that the Affair will most certainly self distruct and we need to prepare for that time so that I can have a chance at saving my marriage. In the mean time I am going to focus on my kids with all of my energy and do what ever I can to protec them and be the best father that could possibly be. It is all about them now...all I can do is wait on the rest.

BobPure...thank you for your encouragement and for pushing me in the right direction. I truely believe that if not for you (ANGRY) post I would still be in the same boat. If you have any advice or ideas on any of this it is most certainly welcome.

R.

Wow.
You sure are bending over backwards to appease the guy who has been doing your wife.
Why are you inviting him into your personal life by giving much more information than he needs? (which should be zilch to begin with)

You are in a two person relationship. You & your wife. The om is not part of your marriage.

I agree Chris, I *might* have said all those flowery apologetic statements only to end it with...leave my wife and my kids alone. Do not have contact with them anymore...

Don't let youir WW bully you into anymore letters to the OM, and anymore thinking that YOU have done something wrong by driving by YOUR house. Let her know you WILL be driving by the house periodically.