Ok - my last post was "Does he have ESP"???

Regarding WH seeing me closing my heart on him and our M - so he came sniffing around..offering a vacation - then there was the upset of my attempt to fire MOW - which he went balastic..

So - to fend of more major blow up - we really are not interacting - he goes his way - I go mine...

I have been actively searching for a house/condo to move myself into Plan B then to Plan D....

Today - he calls about a trip in Oct. w/our friends (one of my favorite cities and one I always wanted him to visit)...

WHAT AM I DOING WRONG - STILL??????????????

I haven't shared a bed w/this man in 1 year 3 months and again he talks to me about a trip????? We have done nothing to repair our M - we just have business conversations at home..and blow ups now and then.

Yes, it could be viewed as a business trip since the others that are going are business friends...


Does he not see that I am not prepared to have a M w/him any longer??? Does he not see that I've had enough???? Do I actually have to move out for him to understand that this dysfunctional M and my boundaries are SERIOUS...This is not a game...If he would suggest IC/MC I may still be interested in recovery - but he's had 1+ years to do that and hasn't...so I have little to no hope of a recovery here...I am only trying to save myself any more hurt at this time...other than that I feel very little anymore..

What do I have to do to make him understand where our M stands????? or will he never see it since he feels every woman he was ever with would take him back in a minute..Is his narcissistic personality that strong???

I'm dying here.....in a sea of dysfunction...............

Have you told him (or considered telling him) EXACTLY what you've told us here? EXACTLY what you're feeling/thinking? Heck, write him an email containing your post here...sometimes the ONLY way to get the message across is with a 2X4.

THanks for the reply - I've told him bits and pieces over the past months. Since we cannot have a normal conversation - it always gets out of control and into a screaming match and bashing..I cannot point out to him that he:
Has no respect for me
Himself
His children
His A's w/MOW is wrong and painful for everyone...
That he must assume some blame for his actions
ETC. ETC.

I have told him how I feel - it doesn't matter to him..He blocks his feelings so he can't understand mine at all.

I think we really need an "intervention"...someone that can stop and start the conversation before it escalates. Someone that has strong M beliefs and beliefs that your S comes first..not MOW, drinking, kids, horses, etc. But, he won't go for that either..Cause he'd be found wrong...and he's never wrong..

I just don't understand why he can't see clearly that I can't take anymore disrespect and that my wall is up....

What the heck am I doing wrong??? Talking doesn't help since we can't talk thru this. I have written him notes in the past he reads it quick and tears them up - like yeah, I know but I don't care..Noone tells me what to do..I'm not trying to tell him what to do - I'm asking him to make a choice me and a better M, or "them"..stop the dysfunction now.Don't make me make the final decision all alone here...

He can't or won't hear you because you are attacking him. You are criticizing him. Why would he listen?

You got it right, you cannot point these things out. You can you "I ..." statements.

When you ____________, I feel disrespected.
When you ____________, I wonder if you respect yourself.
When you ____________, the children have said they feel disrespected (or other feeling)
I will not live in a marriage of three adults.
I believe that the closest male female relationship should be between a husband and wife.
I would like to attend marriage counselling to improve our married when I'm convinced there are no 3rd parties involved.

So you can go off saying how disrespectful he is, how wrong his affair is, etc he will (as you have seen) tune out or get defensive.

Set your boundary, let him choose if he is going to honor it or not. If he chooses to not honor or enter into a respectful negotiation, then enforce the boundary with appropriate consequences.

He probably knows he's wrong. Does he know how to get right?

T

In one of Dr. Dobson’s classes A LONG time ago he said something like “Without extreme conflict there is no change”. I’ve often pondered that statement and feel that is relative to how one views/handles/addresses conflict. In your husbands case, it appears he ignores and avoids it, while doing so you are still there. That being said, what message is being sent to him?

“””Does he not see that I've had enough???? Do I actually have to move out for him to understand that this dysfunctional M and my boundaries are SERIOUS...”””

Actually, in your case, I feel you’ve provided a pretty good answer to your question. To a Neanderthal man emotional thinking is limited and he may be relying on visual. At the end of the day, you’re still there. And it sounds like you’ve either agreed to or he’s implied agreement to a family vacation, again what message does he take from that?

“””I'm dying here.....in a sea of dysfunction...............”””

Then you either continue floating along or choose to get out of the water….

I think the idea of using I statements is valid, but I've found that it doesn't work with someone who habitually refuses to accept responsibility for their actions.

I think that LH has a good part of the answer here. I think that you should sit down and flat out tell your husband how you feel. Not in bits and pieces...guys don't hear things in bits and pieces. When you tell him, come straight to the point without any prelude or buildup. Go to the heart of the matter without being heavily emotional or attacking in any way. Simply state that this is how you feel...and that if there isn't a change, you're now contemplating how to end the marriage and move on. Have a good idea (write a list) of the exact changes that you need to see happen in order for you to agree to remain married. Don't read them to him, but have them handy for you to refer to so that you can talk about them if he gets to that point. Remember that guys communicate differently than women...men tend to have a much less elegant means of communication. We simply get to the point immediately. Women tend to want to 'soften the blow' by leading up to it...see if you can do a web search that talks about communication differences between men and women and you'll see what I mean and why I suggest you try doing it this way.

Finally...be prepared to act if he DOESN'T take you seriously, if he tunes you out, or if he doesn't follow through and make the changes. NEVER threaten without following through...it's like scolding your kids. If you say you're going to do it...do it.

Good luck friend.

Plan B...get away from the madness...I have yet to hear any REAL attempts from him to CHANGE and reconcile...You are doing NOTHING wrong...don't get sucked into his drama.

I may wonder what a dog is "saying" when he's barking, but I know I'll never understand it, so I don't even try...no sense spending energy on something inherently unknowable WRT to your WH's behavior.

Keep on your path toward independence...moving out may be an issue WRT the D...check with your lawyer first before you move out.

Other than that, I would avoid him at all costs...unless contact is truly REQUIRED...I would blow him off.

BTW, how did firing OW go? I hope your WH didn't pull any "rabbits out of his hat" to save her sorry @$$.

Hang in there...

WNB

Confused - Your right I am attacking him - though, I try to express these issues in a pleading/understanding way.I don't want to attack him becoz that only brings our more arrogance and denial.
My IC suggested your way of saying his action cause these feelings in me - I did try it a couple of times it doesn't seem to phase him no matter how I put things.

He has justified his actions and noone (even his guy friends) can get his head out of this A$$.

After he became physically violent w/me - he told the police we would go to counceling - but, that was a lie to keep him out of jail and removal from our home.

I do think deep down he knows he's doing wrong - BUT - I also believe this man cannot have true intimacy, that he has a sexual addiction problem, and other issues that he fears addressing. It's easier to just do like he's been doing for years than to change.

I like your comment on the closed male/female relationship being between a husband and wife and that's what I want in my life - but, I think his fear of intimacy keeps him from sharing all that a h/w should.

3rd parties involved - ******, I wish it was only 3 of us..He's got many OW he strings along for whatever purpose. Some are probably EA and others PA. I have old guy friends that I keep in touch w/ but, WH knows them and whenever I talk to them I have always informed him. I have NO SECRETS.

I dont' think he does know "how to get it right". He has too many outside forces pulling him in the wrong direction, too many temptations and he's not strong enough to fight against it. Even his DD (25 years old) feels he's justified in his A's. But, he doesn't see she has motives - she wants our lifestyle and one way to get it is to get rid of me..Then she can control dear old dad totally.

Lost: Your right too - I'm still there which sends a message of she's not serious. Though, I've taken steps to show him I'm only here physically. He just doesn't see the entire message I'm trying to send. I still don't do his laundry, spend time w/him, etc.

I haven't agreed to any vacation time w/him. I said it was something I had to think about. W/O coming out and saying YET - I'm not going anywhere w/you.

OWL - Your right - During the first year of getting caught - there were maybe 4 times that he said he sorry, said it had nothing to do w/me, and that he was "screwed up". BUT - even w/that said he still continued his multiple A's. I think he only said those things in desperation and in hopes that I wouldn't clean his clock.

B-4 I can agree to anything w/him you guys are RIGHT - I will say that I also do try to lessen the blow - but, then things get blown out of proportion becoz I am forced to LB him as he'll deny or blame me so I retaliate. That's another reason why I'd like an intervention.

We here at MB all know that A's aren't justifiable - so I am expecting him to stop blaming me and my horse for what he's "probably" done for years b-4 I bought a horse.

I have thrown out idle threats in the past and your right - I need to follow thru - I may need to file for a D whether I still have a smidgin of love in my heart or not. Not to punish him for his actions but to validate my demand for respect.

WHNBS - I would definately have my attorney send a letter stating that I am forced to leave the marital home due to emotional/physical violence. I wouldn't just desert..

As for firing MOW - that didn't go well. Someone stoppped me in my path and said I better discuss w/WH. So I did..I expressed thru tears that I can't take it at work anymore, that the disrespect must stop, that rubbing my nose in the A everyday is too much to ask of me. I can't do it..He became enraged left the house, went drinking, came home berated me AGAIN, then left for more drinking then didn't come home till the next day. To enforce that I don't give a crap anymore I didnt' call his cell looking for him nor did I ask him the next day where he was..I gave him the "I don't give a damn" attitude. I will never go to him first - when I get more on her and I will - I'm going for the throat..He said she'll sue - for what?? His sexual harrasment or my slander???? That's another subject I need to discuss w/him.

I will gather my thoughts and jot some notes and sit and try to discuss the state of our M again w/o the drama and by using the "I feel" method - and I must express that "I feel" is important to me and I can't/won't feel this way anymore..I need to feel good, loved, and respected and I'd him to feel that way too..But, it's gonna take 2...

The phone cards, drinking, womanizing, etc. must go away or I must go...

HUGS GUYS - I WILL MAKE THRU THIS..one way or another..

How are things going?

Scott