Yes, it would be sucking up. That is its intention. That's what we mean by bringing flowers to someone to whom we have caused inconvenience (however imaginary the inconvience). A card would be inappropriate -- you don't know her -- so would perfume, lingerie, etc. Maybe bring flowers to her, personally, but big enough display that the whole office would enjoy it on her desk.

I'll let others chime in about appropriateness.

As for MIL, maybe the fruit doesn't fall far from the tree. You are the obvious person to blame in a situation she can't do much about.

Ok, you're right. That's so nuts.

Hang in there, Dani... be careful! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I wouldn't think it was necessary....but just in case it is...cookies are better. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Particularly if they're homemade, because there's no cash outlay to be considered as bribery. Also, try offering an apology....even if you have to make up something to apologize for. Like, "I felt bad because I was so impatient with you yesterday, so I wanted to make it up to you." (Even if you really weren't impatient, it's the matter of breaking the ice that counts.)

Dani,

Court clerks are, by nature (due to the nature of the job) VERY curt, rude, generally not nice. Don't take it as any more than that. No need to take them flowers or anything else as 1) it will look odd and 2) they most likely won't remember you anyway.

Seems odd to me that OW was given bail....not sure how the system works up there or how crowded the jails are there...here, the jails are SO over crowded, I would imagine bail would be granted under these circumstances.

Regards,

BB

BB,
Thank you!. One question for you. If you have $500 unsecured bail. You violate bail. You go back in and you get out on $100 cash bail. Does this make sense? I mean doesn't the whole $500 unsecured mean if you violate you pay the $500 not get out with $100?
Danielle

Well WH is no longer in jail. A female, and not the OW, bailed him out. The ONLY person I can think of is his Mother. He probably told her some sob story, said he would pay her back tomorrow when he gets paid or something... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
If it wasn't her then I don't know. Doesn't really matter who it was, but they are both out of jail....and mad I am sure. The police know they are out, and know I am home here with the kids, so that is good. He hasn't tried to contact me.
I almost think I needed this whole arrest, jail thing to happen..for me to 'cut the cord' so to speak.
I am not about to call him now...and maybe I needed that. I am sure he is mad. In fact Chris told me that he tried to call him tonight and he changed his cell phone number. Chris also said that their work had no idea where WH and OW were today but they didn't show up. He said they will more then likely loose their jobs. Bad for child support, good for child custody. At this point fighting him for money is nute. I am not about to call his parents either. Frankly with the way they have been treating me, that is probably a good thing. I have to be in court twice in the last week in August and will see him then, that is plenty.

The whole time I have held onto hope that maybe one day we could remarry if he gets his life and emotions in order. Now, I think that his anger about what "I" have done, and the simple fact that I am going to have to get nasty in court is going to prevent that from ever being a possiblity. People always said 'you never know, things could change down the road and you could remarry' After a nasty divorce, I don't think so. That is hard to accept. I do love the man I married, and miss him. He is gone...I had hoped not forever, but at this point, forever may be it.

Danielle

As I say, MIL has a long, steep learning curve in front of her. I wouldn't get in the way of it. She's going to come down with a thump.

As for remarriage, don't even think about it right now. Get your pepperspray. Make sure you have help nearby -- neighbors, whatever. They've made scenes on your doorstep before. Stay dark. Do they know where you live?

Don't worry about remarriage, don't worry about getting nasty. Be businesslike and professional. As Don Corleone said, "Business is business."

A.M. I know I can't worry and focus on ever having a relationship with my WH again right now...but is it something that I have held on to, in part as a coping method to deal with actually getting a divorce.

I live about an hour from where their tent is/was. Since we moved to Maine they have never come here, nor made any attempt to impose on my home. I realize this may all change, but it may not as well.

As far as getting nasty, what I am meaning by this is about child custody and visitation and such. He sees my attempts to keep the kids here, away from him alone, and safe as a power game, or a way to be vindictive. Obviously it is not, but he can't and won't see that. I know his view is not my problem, but I do love my husband, and that is where the emotions come into play. I do fight in court, for what I know is right...but when I get home I feel like maybe I am loosing all chance of ever having a decent relationship with this man. I realize he may NEVER change, he may NEVER be responsible and adult enough for me to WANT back. I also think about the fact that he might. He might, a long time from now, realize how wrong and hurtful what he is doing is, and want to make it right. If he does come to that point, but he is so angry with how nasty I had to be, or how I aired out his lies to the world, he may never overcome that...
Just rambling thoughts...
Danielle

As far as getting nasty, what I am meaning by this is about child custody and visitation and such. He sees my attempts to keep the kids here, away from him alone, and safe as a power game, or a way to be vindictive. Obviously it is not, but he can't and won't see that. I know his view is not my problem, but I do love my husband, and that is where the emotions come into play. I do fight in court, for what I know is right...but when I get home I feel like maybe I am loosing all chance of ever having a decent relationship with this man. I realize he may NEVER change, he may NEVER be responsible and adult enough for me to WANT back.

Wow. You wrote that.

Your H is an alien hon. He is on mothership and not ready to come down to earth. He may or may NEVER. I say to many people that I indeed loved my H, but I do NOT love the alien/WS he morphed into now.

QUIT FOCUSING ON HIM...WHAT HE IS DOING..WHAT HE WILL DO...WHAT IF YOU NEVER GET A SECOND CHANCE..WHAT IF HE CHANGES...WHAT IF HE NEVER DOES (AS FOR NOW THAT'S MY VOTE).

Concentrate on your issues at hand today. Here are your issues to give voice to and to think through and solve:
1)custody: solidify things so that this psycho ow and her PSYCHO BOYFRIEND(YOUR WH) are both away from the kids until your WH can maintain (for reasonable length of time) stable employment, able to stay out of jail, respect for law, and show he is not underinfluence of either drugs or other things I am worried he's into...he's too off the wall and out of control. And then there's the psyched out OW. She's BECOME THIS WAY B/C OF YOUR WH HON. He moved her away, uprooted her, got her fired from her job, and probably lied to her 100 percent of the time as he's lied to you over the last year ok? She's lost it b/c he pushed her over the edge. And yes, YOU are the object of the anger b/c she thinks it is YOUR fault...as per your WH. They always paint it that way. IT's my WIFE'S FAULT EVERYTHING IS SO WRONG WITH OUR LIVES...Instead of saying, "wow. We've made some really stupid choices. I can't see you anymore until I (ws) figure out what is the responsible thing to do as I am also a father besides being a husband". But WS DO NOT THINK RATIONALLY SO DO NOT EXPECT THEM TO DO SO.

I'd worry about the death threat. If you have a witness, I'd definitely make him give a statement and have the RO put into place for both WS and OW. And for your kids as well.

I'm glad I have digital cable...lol!

YOu gotta stay sane...and the other poster who said to keep outta their life is right. Stay out. It's a whirlwind of crapola swirling around.

Until Danielle STAYS OUT, the lovebirds cannot lovebust. That is one passive thing a BS can do to help end their destruction. Let them implode on each other...I've done this and believe me, it worked wonders. It's amazing when it's us vs. her mentality rather than WS vs. OP. You're the third wheel and the object of the anger. Pull yourself out of the equation. Heck, your WS pulled you outta the equation anyway. Just give the man what he wants (bleech)...we'll see in a year or so what happiness he has.

But this is NOT YOUR PROBLEM ANYMORE. I've worried for you for months now. Praying. As your WS and OW are as wacked out as my xh and ow/w...I see the writing on the wall and hope you can as well. You cannot fix this man. No way to do it.

You gotta save yourself, the kids, and make darn sure he's paying child support right now.

And stay out of their silly little lives and stay safe ok?

Here is what happens when I, Peachy, imagine life one year later for Danielle:
*Danielle is almost done with school. She's doing a great job.
*Kids are stable in school and making all new friends. Family has many friends and stable support group around.
*Danielle sleeps at night and the anxiety stops.
*Danielle can breathe easy. And is looking forward to the next day every day! It's a challenge, but she meets it face forward with a smile!
*Dani can go out and buy cute clothes, and has chance to go out with girlfriends while healing and test the waters being single. She feels free and alive for first time in years!

One year ahead for your Wacked out WS and OP:
*He is still installing direct tv and trying to not stay out of jail.
*he's paying child support. Mind you, their money is tight...she has kids and between them working and him paying you child support, there's not much there...I'D IMAGINE THEY HAVE MONEY FIGHTS.
*With no Dani in picture, the lovebirds are living the reality of the affair. Bills and not enough money to pay them. Kids screaming (and not his kids either). Most likely, there's a dad in the picture...OW's children's father..and with the smack you in the face reality of life and laundry and day in and day out drudgery, they begin to Love Bust all over the place. The mundane becomes even more mundane. Until...
*He can't live without his fantasy fix and cheats on OW> what happened to my xh. And is still happening.

Do I still love my H? Sure. I can say that b/c he is not anymore "among the living". He's gone. Vamoose. Kaput. He has morphed into the sith lord, Darth. And I do not feel anything but loathing for Darth. It was a loss to me...much like a death. But I am doing ok. Pretty darn ok. Nobody said this'd happen to us on the day we marry, but hey, this is happening in record numbers all over the world now unfortunately. There are wonderful people out there one day after you've healed that are worthy of love, children, and a long term committment or marriage. You gotta believe you're worth that.

Your WH cheats because SOMETHING IS LACKING IN HIMSELF. It's not about you dear. Not at all.

You gotta know that part is soooo true. If it were really about you, he'd be working on getting you help so you two f could really address issues and work thru them together...I WAS TOLD THAT BY MY REALLY GOOD COUNSELOR I HAD.

The WS saying the BS caused them to leave is BS....bull poo. If it were true, there would be NO THIRD PARTY INVOLVED.

Stay safe, stay sane, and keep on moving ahead with blinders on. Call me if you need to.

If you "do love your husband" -- and your children, of course -- being businesslike and professional as you pursue the good of all parties (yes, this is in WH's best interest, too) offers you the best likelihood of future reconciliation.

Trying to make him understand, trying to make him like you, trying to get him to see why you are doing what you are doing and how you see him ... these are all likely to suck you into the OW/WH drama and destroy any possibility for reconciliation at a future date. Being businesslike and staying dark -- these are also the most likely things to preserve your love and your well-being.

Don't be emotionally involved. Don't contact him, or accept any contact from him. Do what you have to do calmly, rationally. Suck up to the court people if you can -- they are your allies right now. (The apology to clerk sounded good. I don't like taking home-cooked food from strangers, myself, but not everyone has that glitch.)

And most of all don't focus on the distant future. Focus on the kids and the here and now.

In that lies your sanity.

Dani, so very proud of you. I should be sleeping since my newborn is but for some reason I peeked in here tonight and saw your post.

If it helps any, look at your WH as the man that murdered your husband. And now he taunts you and lets his accomplice help him.

I know this is so very difficult for you, but words can't express how very proud I am of you for stepping up and really moving forward!

Hello fellow Mainah,
Although I don't post much, I do check in on you often as I feel you and I have similar stories. Mine was filled with drama as well....unbelievable at times....people who had never known WH before the A would wonder what I ever saw in him....people who did know him couldn't believe he was the same person....for a long time it consumed me, threatened to destroy me....

For 2 years, I wondered how the man I fell in love with could treat his family so badly....but I slowly came to understand and believe that he too was in a lot of pain. However it was beyond my control to help him. All I could do was take care of myself and my children. I could have protected myself better from the chaos had I implimented a solid Plan B, I tried and failed many times. I wasted a lot of time and energy on something I could not change....

I also had a Protection from Abuse Order on WH that resulted in limiting his visitation with the kids and prevented any contact of them with OW. For 2 years she never met our kids......court officers from the PFA hearing remembered me when it came time for the D hearing and treated me kindly and with concern....the judge awarded me everything in his decision, leaving WH with high support & alimony payments.

Was he angry? Oh boy was he! The judge even reprimanded him before it was over....of course everything was my fault...he couldn't see that I was only trying to protect myself and our children....I would try to get him to understand but it was useless....for 2 years his anger built....he was impossible to deal with....he continued to pretend that he was happier with OW even though he was away from everything that he loved, his children, his home.....he had lost all family and friends....financially we were destroyed....he had long periods of unemployment throughout this....

Slowly though, my children and I began to rebuild our lives without WH....while we were on a uphill healing track, he continued to self destruct....continuing to blame me for all his woes, always accusing me of being unreasonable!!!...

4 days after the D he unexpectedly pulled up stakes and moved back to our area....for the next few months he continued to spin out of control, the A, now a long distance relationship, fizzled and died, he had difficulty finding work, his choices were taking it's toll and finally he bottomed out.
It wasn't pretty but it had to happen!

At that point, I began to see glimpses, ever so slightly, of my former H....I made a decision, perhaps prematurely, but I decided to reach out and treat him with compassion....slowly he came out of the fog....he began to refocus and be more proactive in his job search, he started to spend more time with the kids, he went to counseling, his anger began to dissipate and then came the apologies, the remorse....the confessions of his unhappiness throughout the A....the admission of his inability to turn things around even when he realized he had made a huge mistake...

He's been home for almost 5 mos. now and things are going well. We are slowly rebuilding our lives together....it is often hard to believe that the man I fell in love with has actually returned from the fog....I thought he was lost forever....

So Dani....protect yourself from the chaos.....let your WH self destruct....it may take some time, but it will happen.....as whacked out as he may seem right now, it is very possible that someday he will re-emerge....I know it's not easy, but don't concern yourself with his life right now, there is no way to make sense of it....live YOUR life, make friends, have fun, continue to learn....get healthy and strong....

I can tell you are a survivor....you've come a long way....keep it up....you've learned the hard way what you need to do....your children need you to show them the way to find happiness despite this unfortunate mess...I know you can do it!

Mojo is SO smart! Brilliantly said!

Wow Dani, you have been through the ringer but still shining! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Proud of how you handled yourself. See you do have support around you. Don't worry about the uninformed ones who can't understand.

Concentrate on how to be safe and move forward. You probably have the entire Sherrif's force at your disposal if you need. LOL!!! Of course you won't take advantage of it but it is part of their job to be 'peace officers'. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Be cautious and be safe.

Remember: The ow is 'armed' (right/left) and dangerous. It's the WS that has 3 knees. (right knee/left knee and a wee nee) In their current form both are acting as if they have no brains YIKES!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Hugz,
L.

Again, advice from me is to stay safe first. Your WH has done NOTHING to earn any soft feelings right now. Not at all. And yes, orchid's right. They're dangerous.

Don't focus on him, future reconciliation right now. Focus on getting from one day to next. And doing so in peace and calm with your kids by your side. Too much drama is not good for kids to see.

YOu see, your WH is a particularly nasty body snatcher here. And his lies, the WS lies, have further made manic and wacky the ow...she now blames you for everything that's going wrong. As far as now, in their present thinking, they will only blame you for everything. Until life has the opportunity to smack the idiots down, he cannot have a chance to change. And you cannot run in there and do it. Why? He doesn't want you to ok.

The only path for peace is also the only remote chance for a much future (and maybe never but you need to have already accepted this) reconciliation ok? It is to be as another poster said, businesslike and distant. You do not try to "knock sense into him" by talking or reasoning or being nice...it will get you nowhere.

Let them learn yet another of Einstein's pearls of wisdom: for each and every action there is an opposite reaction. So let them break the law...they get jail. Let them live together...they love bust. Let him not be man enough to sober up, get help and prove he's worthy as a dad to see the kids...if he doesn't...he loses custody. Let him see that he must work for a living...and pay child support...let him see that he can start a new life with the ow...and let him see the money fly out the door (thanks to child and spousal support).

Yep. That's one of my favorite laws of physics. Works great in real life too.

There is no MBuilding right now. Cannot be. He is hopelessly dangerous, reckless, and without regret. And his ow, has been deeply poisoned by the lies of the WS...thus making her equally dangerous and reckless..without regret also. I am being not harsh, but presenting to you facts as they appear at the present. It is as if you must each day look at the day presented to you. And make decisions accordingly.

Be strong, safe, and do the right things.