I’m on deployment in the Arabian Gulf, my wife has completely changed, and she just asked me for a divorce. She says she loves me, like in a "best friend" way, but she’s not in love with me. She likes the new “free” person she’s become and just wants to make herself happy, because she’s “been unhappy for a long time”. She's constantly going out on weekday outings and weekend trips with friends from the organization she runs at work. Obviously all of her needs are being met by these "friends". She also said she became frustrated and “looked down on me” because of my uncertain career plans after I finish the Navy. I suspect an OM (I’ve seen clues), but that’s not enough to make me give up. She also has no desire to pursue marriage counseling since, her “heart isn’t there anymore.”

She’s asked that I not contest the divorce if I truly love her. That’s not an expression of love! She wasn’t going to tell me until I got home but she felt she had to tell me because the encouraging information I was sending her indicated I was suffering from false hope. Honestly, the only hope I’ve had for weeks now has been from what I’ve been reading on this website. This is so crazy because, yes, we had little issues, but nothing that was expressed as “problems.” We used to be couple that set the standard for young, responsible, dedicated couples. We were ahead of the game. We bragged about our love and marriage and now I feel like a desperate fool.

Naturally, this story has more background that I’d be willing to share, but this is the big picture.

Does anyone have a clue how I can get her to wait it out and give us a chance to go to marriage counseling and try to use the info I’ve gained from MB? I’ll be home in about 1.5 months and I want my wife. I’ve loved her since we were kids. I’d sacrifice almost anything for my marriage to last. Thanks for any advice that can be offered.

-TX

Hi sailor!

I am a military wife and know how frustrating time away from your spouse can be. Infidelity is running rampant in the military right now, imo it is at an all time high. My H's A was with a wife of a soldier who was deployed.

What state are you from? Some states require LEGAL separation before you can file for a divorce. I know here in NY it is 1 year of legal separation before you can even think of a divorce.

This is just my opinion but if she was really serious she could of waltzed herself right into JAG and started this on her own. This free uncontested legal separation HAS to be signed by both parties, DON'T sign it! Do you think the om is military? If so find out what rank, what unit and so forth.

She is looking down on you because you are not sure what you are going to do after the Navy?!? How long have you been in, do you plan on staying in to retire? Even if you don't there is that place (can't think of it now) that if you get out they help find you a job, and government jobs are easy to get for ex-military.

One thing you can probably bank on is this....military spouses talk and gossip, they know what is going on in their neighborhood. Those spouses tell their spouses what they "heard". It is a trickle down effect and you will probably be able to get the scoops if there are any.

She is saying all these things while you are gone and does not have to confront you face to face. That could be a big factor.

I have to add....because this bothers me so. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I don't know if your wife is cheating. (sort of sounds like she may be) BUT, I have been a military wife for 16 plus years and I still have a hard time understanding how a spouse can cheat while their other half is deployed.

I have heard the excuses by many. "He is never home" "I feel so alone" "the military is bad for our marriage" "I have to do everything myself, it is like I am single anyways"

YET in so many cases they got married KNOWING their spouse was military, so they had to have some sort of clue that there is always a possiblity of deployments. There are so many activities the spouse left behind can get into on and off post, there is a routine you follow and wallowing in self pity is not one of them. The military is NOT bad for a marriage, infact it can create some of the stongest marriages I have ever seen AND it creates some of the strongest people I have ever seen. Doing things for yourself while spouse is deployed makes you stronger.

You (the soldier) are doing your job! The spouse left behind should know that there is a job they have to do too. That is all known when you are part of the military and there are places that can help those spouses left behind to reach that goal.

Good luck to you, sailor! And hats off to you for the job you do!

Start with my threads which began in June 2002 (just search for them using the search tool). I was deployed in September 2001 thru April 2002. My wife used that time to get into an affair, much as yours has (and I will bet my next year's salary there is an affair). So read my threads to see how it all went.

Read Surviving an Affair. Read everything on this website. Prepare for a battle when you get back.

Your marriage can be saved, but you will have to work your butt off for a very long time to get it right again. So, reast up the next month and a half. Because you will need it.

Also, get someoen to get intel on her. Either hire a PI (you might need to later for court if it goes to divorce). Or get some friends to get intel on who this OM is.

Once you find out, expose the affair to her parents, the guys wife/parents/family/work. Then start Plan Aing, filling in her needs (see the section on here about emotional needs).

My wife said all of the same things. She even filed for divorce. And we are in recovery now. No guarantees that we'll make it. But everyday it seems to get a little better.

So, get with it. Post here to ask questions and update us.

In His arms.

From another sailor - check with your legal rep on board. I believe you have rights under the Servicemember's Civil Relief Act (old Sailor and Soldier's Act) that lets you delay any separation action until you return. Don't sign anything while deployed and give it some time to digest when you get back. Great advice to gather intel and do reading here. Many voices of experience, I'm still learning. Best wishes, damn the torpedos.

V/r, No Way

Being a military wife- I have no respect for those who cheat on their husbands while on deployment.
There honestly is no need and reasons as to why it did happen or what came to it.

Find out all and any info you can, Do not sign anything! Keep your head up and with this great website you'll have all the hope you need till you can lift the FOG off of her.

GOOD LUCK!

Thank you all for the encouragement. It kind of put little more pep back in me. It’s hard to maintain hope that there is anything worth holding onto when the person you love says she no longer loves you back. When she said she didn’t want to go to marriage counseling I started to feel like it’s pointless to try. We’ve steadily been together for over four years, and currently married a year and a half. This nonsense started a month into the cruise and has been going on for about 4 and half months now. I think I saw the potential infidelity in the beginning, but it was easily excusable as me being insecure.

I’m stationed in VA, where the min sep period w/no child is 6 months. I don’t think she’s going to a JAG, but she is saying she’ll be seeing a lawyer in a week to begin the process. When everyone says not to sign anything, do they mean to not sign ANYTHING or anything that my own lawyer hasn’t reviewed? Regardless of probable infidelity, I’m willing to try to make this work. I’m not enthusiastic about agreeing to separation or divorce prior to marriage counseling, but can the court require it if one party requests it? If she leaves, I want her to remember me as a loving man that cared for her until she walked out.

Apparently, she looks down on me because I had been rather undecided about my career path. My professional desires changed a lot after we got married because staying navy and later going into politics wasn’t how I wanted to raise a family. Those goals were great as a single guy, but it would kill me if I were missing my family for a selfish career… which is part of her problem. Just after this all started is when I decided on my goals, but she now says it was too late for her. Divorce or not, I’m going back to TX where I have friends and family and I’m going to school.

My wife knew all about my military responsibilities before dating as adults. She was so aware of it that she ran my ships family support group for the past two years. More of her problem is that she says she enjoys not having to take care of anyone else (I didn’t know I was dependant, nor think I was ever totally), and the she’s finally getting to live life as someone who’s “twenty something” and not someone older. I tried to get her out and do the things she’s doing with these people so I don’t know why it suddenly fun. I’ve seen her pics; she’s definitely having a good time.

I thought about hiring a PI but I couldn’t go through with it. She would immediately notice the charges on the account. She seems to be leaving me clues but wont directly admit to an OM. I think she’s trying to force me away without directly incriminating herself. However, I do have so straight answers on the way. Unfortunately my WS isn’t brave enough to say it herself.

As for letting her family know, they know every thing except for the OM. I’m sure of that, but I could be wrong. They’ve been so worried about my emotional reaction that they advised her to say nothing about divorce until I got home. Besides, they’re hoping she’ll come to her senses by the time I’m home.

So here is my next question. All she wants to talk about it separation and asset division. I’ve told her I’m not talking about it until I get home. What should I talk about between now and homecoming in order to keep me in her mind without focusing on divorce? Is there anyway to keep link through email going without pushing her further away?

Oh and what does FOG stand for? I haven’t come across that one yet.

Thanks again everyone. I appreciate all of your advice and inquiries.

-TX

Fog stands for thick, gloopy water vapor so thick that the infidels can see and hear nothing reasonable while in it, except for one thing: far above their heads, cutting across the sky, is one brilliant beam of light radiating from their betrayed spouse, the lighthouse that will show them the only way home.

Typical fog talk from your wife. Part of the WS script. Get used to it!!

Dont beat yourself up over it. We all wanted to believe the best out of our spouses, even when the evidence showed that they werent the best.

Virginia...awesome. I live in Virginia. You live in a state that has some awesome adultery, custody and divorce laws. I can help you here. Since you are on deployment, you are not separated. You still both maintain the same household. You live there, as does she. So this does not count. Added to that, adultery carries some stiff penalties in divorce hearings in Virginia. So it is imperative that you get the intel on her. I used some Army buddies back here in the States while I was deployed. Once they got enough intel to know when my wife and OM were meeting, they then hired a PI and had him tail them on the nights they were most likely to meet (saves money that way). In this way, the PI could get the evidence needed in court. Ultimately, you can take some of the evidence and approach your wife and confront her. Make sure you have a tape recorder (can find small ones that you can hide on your person at Radio Shack) or make sure someone else is there. Get her to admit the affair. Once you have all of that, then you have proven adultery. In Virginia, adultery means that first off, your wife will get no alimony. Second, if you so choose, YOU can file for divorce immediately, since this is a fault state. She has to wait, you do not. Since you dont have children, then I wont go into that. Of course, you want to save your marriage, but you must first protect your backside from her if this does go to divorce. Since I have gone thru all of this (including the affair while I was deployed), I can help you here.

JAG cant do anything in a divorce case. She needs a civilian lawyer. Since you are deployed, she cant do any legal proceedings until you get back. So, no divorce can be started until then. That is why you need to get the intel on OM ASAP (this week) before she feels so she cant make the lame excuse that she started in with OM after she filed (in Virginia, that doesnt even matter. The law in this state is very clear...you are married, or yo uare not. If you are married and sleep with someone besides your spouse, that is adultery). Get intel ASAP!!

Okay, so you dont want a divorce. Then dont sign one. First off, Virginia doesnt have an official separation agreement. You can draw one up, but it isnt mandatory. As I said above, yo uare either married or you are not. So, if she wants to file, she is first going to have to have that time apart from you. As I said above, because you are deployed by the military, this does not count! Separate households is what counts. Now, if she ups and moves out of your home, that would start a separation period. But it would also give you another legal charge against her...abandonment. And with abandonment, some more penalties fall on her, sometimes in the area of division of marital property. So, dont sing anything. No need to yet. She cant file on you until you get back, she has to wait the 6 months required (unlike you, which if you can prove adultery, then you can file immediately). Once she does file, of course you have to issue a cross-complaint. But that is a ways off right now.

This is awesom. That is what Plan A is all about. But if there is an affair going on, you wont be able to show her that until you can expose the affair. So, the first order of business is to get that intel...and then expose to family, friends and bosses of WW and OM.

Okay, you have an insight into why she feels the way about you that she does. None of that warrants adultery nor divorce. But they are valid arguments to her, and you will need to look at those things in order to make a better marriage and meet her ENs. Download the EN quetionaire. If she wont fill it out, then you fill it out the best you know how. See where her top needs are. Dr. Harley says that you must meet her top 5 needs most of the time, and the top three all of the time, if you want love to grow. So, figure that out.

Okay, red flag here!! What does she say about this? Does she want to go to Texas? Wha this the plan that she wanted or would want with the two of you together? Please read up on the Policy of Joint Agreement (POJA) on here. While your goal of going back to school in Texas is a good one, if you two cannot agree on this, then it is a marriage buster. The two of you must agree on things in order for this to work. Want to know how? Read up on it on this website or in Dr. Harley's books.

My wife said and did similar things. I was in the Army for almost ten years before I met her. She got involved in the FSG, also. And then she said all of these things. Look, the fog is thick. Affairs are nothing but selfish actions by selfish people. They are acting like 17 year olds, wanting what they want when they want it. She wants to act like a 20 something? This isnt how. This is acting like a teenager, an immature teenager to boot. So, what she says here is just justification to do whatever she wants to. Ignore that part. And while I am on the subject, let me also get you to know something. Fog talk is a new language you must learn if you want to survive this. You need to be able to cull out of that babble she speaks what is true, and what is just founded in her addiction to the OM. Here is an example:

"You were never there for me. I did everything and all you did was run around and do your own thing. Remember the time you left me sick at the house because you said you had to go into the office to fax some things to a client? You abandoned me at the time. It is no different than what I have done now. You are the same as me."

Okay, what do you see in that statement? On the surface, what she is doing is trying to justify the unjustifiable. She is trying to pull you into her mess by making you at least half responsible for her affair. NEVER let her do that. You are not responsible...she is. What else in there? Another big clue to fog talk is historical revisionism. They will change things around about your past in order to fit into their justifications. If she said something like "you were never there for me," you could look at yourself and say "Well, I know that isnt true. I may have made mistakes or wasnt there this one time...but for the most part, I was there for her." If you can look back and see the past and see that she is not telling the truth...then you knwo it is fog. One BIG clue to whether they are revising the past is if they use terms like "never," "always," and other terms that are so rigid.

So, I have proven that this example statement is nonsense, fueled by fog. But is there anything in there that you can cll out of it. Look at it again. In this example, she said that you were basically abandoning her at times. Did you do that sometime? Are there things you did that would make her think that you put your job ahead of her? Are you a workaholic? You see, almost always, there is a thread of truth in fog speak. That thread is what you want...you can throw all of the rest away.

I used this example (I know it isnt what your situation is, just an example of typical fog talk) to get you thinking. When your wife is fog babbling, just listen and nod your head. Answer her accusations with questions. "So, I was never there for you? Are you sure that I was never there for you?" Stuff liek that. The big reason you answer with a question is that they will NOT be educated by you, even if yo uare right. They must figure out things by themselves, or with the help of others. The BS is the last person they want to hear from. So, you put the question back on her and make her think. As she has to think about truth, the fog begins to crumble around her.

Of course. But the fun you need to know about comes from getting some intel. That kind of fun isnt allowed, and you have to go find out.

First off, do what I said above. Have some buddies tail her for awhile and get her schedule and where she is meeting up with the OM. Since you are deployed, she probably feels safe enough to run around and not get caught. So, have her tailed. Once you knwo there is an OM and you have a schedule that they meet, then you let the PI know what and when and he can go out and get the official intel. You'll have to find some funding alternatives until you expose. Maybe a relative or friend can loan you the money for a few weeks so that her radar wont go up. Then you can pay them back once you expose. Once you have done all of this, you can confront her with the evidence. Of course, you want to record this so you have her admitting the affair. Once admitted, you have grounds...and the upper hand legally. Her attorney will tell her to do one of two things. Either keep her mouth shut, lay low and file quickly before hse gets caught...or "put on some sexy undies and hang from the chandalier when your husband comes home." Why do that? Well, if the BS knows about the affair, but has sex with their WS, in Virginia you have forgiven the WS of the affair. So, expect her to file quickly in order to not get caught or to come to you with "I'm sorry" and try to bed you...and then try to leave. You must protect yourself first, in order to save your marriage.

As I said above, almost all WSs follow the same script. Your wife isnt unique. She will do the same things all WSs do. Learn what they are so you are ready.

Get intel about OM then tell them. Tell them yo uwant to save the marriage and love your wife. Then, dont count on one thing from them. Blood is thicker than mud. The exposure will be enough to force the affair into a tail spin. Her family most likely will not help you.

It is hard to talk to a WS...they almost never hear the truth...not until exposure and the fog starts to clear. The best thign you can do is just listen and offer back questions as I said above. As Orchid says, reverse babble them. If you want to know more about reverse babble, I am sure she will come on soon and help.

Get moving. There is a lot you can do while still on deployment. You have a lot to do, and a lot to learn.

In His arms.

This will get you started - it is a link to Orchid's Reverse Babble.

Thanks some more.

I have a lot to think about. I want my marriage to work, but she's draining my will more every day. When I get her emails they always say something that I think sounds crazy. I always fight the desire to shoot holes in her flimsy clichéd statements but I refrain, and tell her that I'm not going to make this painful, but I expect to 1) wait until I get home and 2) see a marriage counselor a first. However, I think I can find a new angle with this reverse babble info you people referred to me.

As for my quote about “Divorce or not…” hmmm I’m not sure what I was trying to say there because it’s not how I feel. See, originally we both had a solid plan to go back to TX, where all of our family is from and my education is free. She asked about staying in VA, but her reasons for asking pertained to cost of living and how quickly a job may open. She never actually said anything about wanting to stay in VA for her career. Heck, I would have agreed to that if she just had asked me. I had to figure it out in one of her cryptic emails and directly suggest it myself. But now that the situation has gotten so horrible, and the possibility of infidelity exists, wouldn’t it be the right thing to try to do? Get her away from the temptation of the other person(s)? However, if there is no chance of saving this marriage then I’ll return home after everything has been settled… but it’s hard to say how long I’m going to hold out.

Related update: There’s an opinion that she hasn’t physically cheated on me. However, emotionally I think she’s attached to at least one guy, maybe two. That’s close enough to infidelity for me. It’s a betrayal of my position in the life we shared.

Another opinion is that the organization that she runs has unleashed a monster inside her. I had suspicions of this in the beginning. She’s become little celebrity in her relatively short time with the company and this organization has gotten her a lot of attention from her peers and superiors… She has told others that she’s met other people and that she wants to be with someone who’s more accomplished than I am. This is shocking to me because it’s a situation that we understood and agreed on before getting married. My degree would come after my discharge… Someone else back home was angered when they were told my WS believes I’m not sophisticated enough for her (hence the “I started looking down on you” comment from a month ago). This, however, is the basic idea my friend was given and relayed to me. I wish I could get the facts directly from the source… Finally is the OM. I’m positive that an OM, to some degree, is already involved. However, supposedly she’s already pursued legal advice and would likely be cautious enough to make no mistakes. So far, no one knows for sure if there is an OM, but if one does come up, I’ll try to take action on it soon.

I should add that this level of disrespect is unprecedented with her. She has never been treacherous, and now she’s put me down lower than my worst enemy. Is it worth trying to salvage this? Can it even be done? Adultery is hard enough, but adding her arrogant and disrespectful attitude makes it seem impossible. The only hope I feel comes from the uncertainty. I don’t know what will be at home when I get back. I don’t know how she’ll react. This is so foreign to me.


Another potential complication may be her family. Someone noticed she seems more determined in her decision after she returns from her parents/family. I don’t know that they’re encouraging her to do this, but I can imagine that she’s become a late bloomer in her rebellious stage and when her parents say, “don’t do it,” she says, “You can’t tell me what to do!” And the result is her feeling more determined. However I need to find out where her parents latest attitude regarding this so I know what I’m up against. They’ve always treated me like a real son, so I would be shocked, yet again, if they supported this.

As for how I treated her… well I always thought I was great. I offered her unconditional love. I always did little things for her like take her to work, or drop off lunch on my days off. I encouraged her career, and was patient. Heck, I was the kind of guy that would get up in the middle of the night to buy her cough syrup. But, no, I wasn’t perfect. I’ll go more into our good habits/bad habits when I add another reply. I have to prepare to rely to her latest email.

Thanks again,
TX

Posted by Maggie: "This is just my opinion but if she was really serious she could of waltzed herself right into JAG and started this on her own. This free uncontested legal separation HAS to be signed by both parties, DON'T sign it! Do you think the om is military? If so find out what rank, what unit and so forth."

Um, hi. Are you saying that she could have gone to the JAG office and had them draw up the divorce papers or a separation agreement? If so, that is COMPLETELY incorrect. The JAG attorneys represent the military. (I am an Air Force paralegal). JAGs do not do divorces, they represent the military service, not the members. So, the service members wife will need her own CIVILIAN attorney, as will the service member also.

Hope that info helps.

Hi, TXGTR. I'm the wife of a sailor, and I serve in the Air Force myself. I don't have much advice for you, since I'm dealing with my husband's emotional affair while I was deployed, and I'm still learning, but I'm going to pray for you, if that's okay. Good luck to you, and I hope you can get all this worked out.

Thanks Peachy,

I appreaciate your prayers. They are very much needed. I'll keep you in my prayers as well.

I'm not sure if my struggle is worth it. I think I'm forcing her further away by being patient and positive. I've been telling her we can work this out but today she exploded on her internet journal...

"Absolute frustration! Stop holding on to something that isn't there!!! It's driving me insane. Do you realize that the longer you hold on, the more it's going to hurt? You're being difficult even though you think it's good that you're trying but it has gotten to the point where you need to stop. You're moving quickly to my bad side and once there, I'm going to explode. ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"

What am I supposed to do with a spouse like that? I think I should stop emailing her until I get home. What you think? Anyone have advice? One thing is certain. She is less of the wife I left home now more than ever. It's becoming easier to let go. I love her but she's nothing like the supportive loving wife I left on the pier.

Thanks

ws: "Absolute frustration! Stop holding on to something that isn't there!!! It's driving me insane. Do you realize that the longer you hold on, the more it's going to hurt? You're being difficult even though you think it's good that you're trying but it has gotten to the point where you need to stop. You're moving quickly to my bad side and once there, I'm going to explode. ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"


When a WS commuicates like this, no amount of reason will do. Best t/g dark and give this info to those who can do something.

When my WS did similar, I called 911 to report a suicide attempt. Ok, mine was a bit worse...the WS said he was 'I hope you are happy, I'm going to end it all'. Heck how was I supppose to know what that meant? I was informed by the police that if it sounded like suicide or something not safe to call 911. I did and was told I did the right thing. In our case the police then found the befumbled WS at Motel6 and the OW was furious at me for 'ruining her evening'. LOL!!! I was relieved he didn't hurt himself but was also angry to know he was with the OW when he called me.

Disengage from her babble.

take care,
L.

It is fog. Ignore it. When in darkness, people hate the light. It hurts. You are shining light on her sin. Keep it up. Whether she knows it or not, it is exactly what she needs.

In His arms.

Thanks Orchid,



Do you mean to suggest not emailing her for the next month and go to a PI as Mortaman did? Do you mean something else?

I'm currently in email contact with the marriage counselor we saw for three sessions in preparation for the wedding. Back then she said we were doing great and were a model young couple. I hope she can help.

I feel like I've entered the withdrawal state. There isn't much that she does that hurts me. When she posts something childish or emails me nonsince, I mutter an obscenity and think about how depraved she's become instead of feeling sad, angry or disspointed. I really do want to make this work but I'm losing my motivation. Her father asks that I wait to see what happens after I return. Others have suggested this too, but I may not care after another month of the same torment. What in the world can I do to stay motivated and positive about saving the marriage without deluding myself?

-Tx

Well guy, it seems you are stuck on a ship in the middle of the gulf, so you might as well do lots and lots of reading and posting here. You will learn a lot of things about marriage. Hopefully it will be enough to save your marriage. But it is good information to understand, no matter what happens.

I think I would drop the relationship talk with her right now. She sounds very foggy, and rational thoughts won't make it through the fog bank.