I've been married for 29 years. I recently discovered that my wife has been seeing her old boyfriend/lover for dinner or lunch when she visits her parents in another state and also corresponding with him off and on over the past 20 years. I was shocked. I knew nothing about it. She says "nothing happened" meaning they did not have sex or get physical and it was not romantic. She kept some of his old letters. In one letter he says he wants to "fool around" the next time they get together. She says that didn't happen. The other letters seem harmless enough, but he had sent her, and she kept, his photograph. I say she betrayed me. She says she didn't. I want to be fair to her, but this doesn't seem right to me. She's not supposed to be in secret contact with her old lover. She sent him a good bye letter that I read and mailed. I don't know what to think about this. I need some advise and perspective. What do you think? Help. Please. [color:"black"] [/color] [color:"black"] [/color] [color:"white"] [/color] [color:"white"] [/color] [color:"black"] [/color]

VS,

Here is what I recommend. Get the book His Needs Her Needs by Harley and read it with your W. I think she knows this secret has harmed your trust. However, the fact that she sent the letter to him saying "bye" is a good thing.

What I suspect is that you two are due for a marriage check up and tune up, and this book is a good place to start. I suspect she realizes this hurt you. I suspect she knew it would thus the secrecy. I think what you two need to do, is discuss how you communicate, and what you communicate about.

You have two choices really: believer her or don't believe her. I would vote for believe her, but verify the status of your marriage and her feelings for you. Make sure you are the husband she needs and that she feels she can be honest and open with you. Sit down and discuss with her (that means LISTEN TO HER) how she feels about this guy, what it meant to her to have him in her life, and what role he played. Make no comments, let her talk. When she is done, thank her for being honest and open with you, EVEN IF what you hear rips your heart out.

You need more than anything for her to be open and honest and you of course need the same from here.

I would strongly recommend that you read several articles on this site. One is called love busters (read about them), the next is about needs, and finally the policy that this site is based on "radical honesty". If you get through those then go to read about the Policy of Joint Agreement, POJA.

If you two get these concepts under your built I think you are in for at least another 29 years of very very good marriage.

God Bless,

JL

If the roles were reversed I bet your wife would be seeing it a different way. Of course she betrayed you.

I agree, she betrayed you. That is the same reason I am here. My FWH had an affair with his old girlfriend. It started out I guess some might say innocently enough with email contact, but it progressed to a PA.

Read the His Needs Her Needs book and Surving an Affair.

The fact that we were betrayed in this way does not take all the responsibility off of us. We need to be the spouse our spouse needs, but in the end they have a choice. I hope she doesn't choose to take it further.

moveforward. What do you think of her claim that there was nothing physical or romantic? very surprised

Did you read her reply when he said he wanted to "fool around"? Even if you didn't you can assumed by the fact that she continued to contact him after that comment as a sign that she was not displeased by it. It is going to be very hard for you to choose to believe her. Even if you say to yourself that you do the fact is that she lied and from my own experience and what I read in this forum they probably got physical at some point. My theory is that most EA evolve into a PA, but it sometimes fails and the lovers go back to the EA only.

No. I didn't see her reply. His letter is from 1985. She kept the letter all these years. Her explanation to me is he was probably joking in the letter. Their first contact was from 1984 to 1987. Then she says they didn't have any contact for about 9 years, and then started up again around 1996. I asked her why there was no contact for 9 years and she says they just didn't have any contact. No reason for it. I don't believe that. Something must have happened. I asked then why did you contact him again in 1996. She says she just wanted to see how he was doing. This went on until last summer when (you're not going to believe this) he stayed with us for a couple of days. She introduced him as an old friend who was in the area for a wedding. She failed to mention he was her old boyfriend and lover. They were way too comfortable together and I immediately sensed that something wasn't right. She showed him the local sights for a couple of days. I was very jealous and I started snooping around and found the old letters. When I confronted her and asked who he was she told me he was her old boyfriend and lover from college. I was totally blown away. She said they reconnected when she ran into him at a party at her cousin's house. (Her family lives in the college town.) After I pressed her on this and demanded details she admitted this was a lie and said there was no party, she called him up out of the blue when she was visiting her parents and they went out to dinner. That would have been about 1984. She hadn't had contact with him since 1970. Then they started to correspond and see each other when she visited her parents. He was married to his second wife at the time. She keeps insisting "nothing happened." She says she didn't tell me about it because she didn't think I would mind. I say she didn't tell me because she knew I would mind. This long time frame is just devastating to me. If this had happened over a few months, or even a few years, that would be one thing. But to have gone on over such a long time period, most of our marriage, is simply overwhelming. She insists she loves me and has no interest in him and wants to save our marriage. But this seems to me like such a huge betrayal that it's very, very difficult for me to forgive. I don't know what to do.

She has been in at least an emotional affair throughout your entire marriage. Her words do not match her actions. This is such a huge betrayal. Your marriage has consisted of you sharing your wife at least emotionally with another man throughout your marriage. She has never been totally committed to you because she has constantly shared herself throughout the marriage with this OM. I feel so sorry for you but the duration of this affair has made your marriage a mockery. It is sad she still does not get it.

I'm really sorry you are finding out he has been a part of your married life for so long. I think I would be surprised if it not gotten physical. Regardless, he has been an unwelcome visitor in your marriage. Have you asked her to go through the books with you or to go to marriage counseling? I hope you can work this out and make your marriage stronger.
take care

She's read through some of the books. It's difficult for her because she says she doesn't believe she had an affair or betrayed me. She admits she was wrong to not have told me about it. My response is, what would you have told me? That you were seeing your old boyfriend? She says, and perhaps even believes, that this is mostly just a big misunderstanding, that it looks a lot worse than it really was. I told her everyone knows you're not supposed to reconnect with your old boyfriend. She says she didn't know that. So, I don't know what to believe anymore. It's hard for me to believe that a person can reconnect with an old lover and it not be considered romantic between them, one way or the other. And keeping the letters for 20 years and having his photograph, I mean, how big of a fool can I be. At the same time I think she's absolutely terrified of losing me and her marriage and will do whatever she can to save it. Whatever interest she had in the other guy seems to have disappeared pretty quickly, as soon as she got caught. I don't want to get divorced and break up my family (2 adult children and 1 teenager) but I feel like I've lost 20 years of my life and it seems like a lot to forgive. And I don't really know whether she's worth it anymore. I thought she was a wonderful person and I thought her best trait was her loyalty. I wouldn't have guessed this was going on in a thousand years.

I don't wish to disrupt this thread...but, couldn't all this be just that she needed attention? I mean an old boyfriend from all those years ago. He was probably only meeting a little EN...being wanted...a crush persae. Maybe she kept the letters to boost her ego when no one else nor herself could.

Betrayal of trust, yes, for not telling you and I would be deeply hurt. Has she had any other signs in your marriage of being a WS?

I think she may be telling you the truth, especially if she wrote him a goodbye letter on your behalf.

I wouldn't call your last 20 years of marriage a mockery.

holiday

Oh, please don't talk about calling it quits. Think of how much time, effort, and love you have invested into this marriage. I keep thinking that out of the ashes of what we had, something so much better is going to come. I see little glimpses of that already for us.

If you want to make it work, be proactive. I know that although he wasn't meeting my needs, I wasn't meeting his either. I want to meet his needs. The more I do to meet his, the more he does to meet mine. It is a productive cycle.

I'm not saying it is easy, there are days it is really hard. I want our marriage to be stronger than the one I imagied I had a a few months ago. Neglect got us into this, intensive care is going to get us through this.

Your wife said she never knew that after you are married that you are not supposed to reconnect with an ex-boyfriend/lover for the next 20 years of your marriage since nobody told her it was wrong? I don't mean to be mean but if your wife truly believe this then she if of diminished mental capacity and a threat to everyone around her. I doubt this is the case. The reality of the situation is that she knows damn well it is wrong but figured she would not be caught. She simply had no answer and basically said I did not know it was wrong to have at least an emotional affair for the past 20 years behind my husband's back and it simply looks worse than it is and it is a big misunderstanding.....Oh please.
A comment like that indicates that she thinks that you are an idiot. I am sorry but that is just my opinion.

To holiday, moveforward, and Bryanp: Thank you for your thoughts. You've each captured my different moods about this problem. Each day I vacillate between those moods. At times I think I'm making too much of it. I never suspected my wife of being a WS, which is why this is so shocking. Perhaps it really wasn't a big deal to her --- that's what she says. At other times I figure what's done is done and I have to focus on the future and keep my marriage and family together as best I can. I should be generous and kind to her to satisfy her emotional needs. And then there are times when I am just so angry at what she did and think that my past generosity and kindness to her has been repaid almost by scorn and contempt to the point ("she must think I'm an idiot and a fool") that I don't think I even know who she is. It's like being married to a stranger. And then I go back to thinking it's mostly just a big misunderstanding. Poor judgment on her part, but not necessarily a PA or EA. So, once again, I don't know what to think. I just want to be fair to her, but also to me.

VS,

I still have a picture of an old girl friend somewhere in my things, actually of more than one, BUT I have not contacted them in 30 years of marriage. I have not had one stay at my house and NOT tell my W who they really were.

I think the bigger issue is not the possible Emotional Affair if not a physical one. I think the biggest issue is the lying to you by omission. She knows she did not explain who he was to you because she knew how it would look.

So let's focus on the lying part, the secrecy part, and not worry so much about the possible A part. The latter is a He said/she said issue, but the lying by omission and in some cases outright lying as in her story about how they met, need to be addressed.

I realize this is very distressing to you, but I think you fail to get your W to truely understand your distress because the subject drifts to the "possible affair". This she can deny, but the lying she cannot and that is the part that is most stressing on the marriage.

Think about this and then develop a plan to address the issue of the lies and the secrecy. She needs to understand how this has affected you, and the affair talk is clouding her ability to appreciate what she has done and to discuss remedies for the future.

Hope something I have said helps.

God Bless,

JL

Thats what I'm talking about...

VS

JL has described a very good method to begin to get the message across to your wife. It is something she cannot deny easily nor have much success in down playing.

The question of an affair?

Well I have to say that I would tend towards her having both a PA & EA over the years. Many of the things you describe would seem to indicate that.
Her very comment of saying she 'wants to save the M' indicates she was doing more than playing verbal patty cake, but that's JMHO.
My guess is it may have early on got to a PA and then drifted off to a EA over the years ........ why did it continue? Because they NEVER were going to get caught.
I'm speaking from experince here having gone through the same kind of sick thought process and betrayed my loving H of 19 yrs.
If your post of her responses are reasonably accurate I would surmise she is feeling sick at heart at it all blowing up in her face and of the damage its done to your M and you as her H. BUT SHE IS ALSO IN DEEP DENIAL and is hoping that if she minimises her actions, or just omits telling you the truth it will all blow over and go away.
NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
The essense of conflict avoidance. She deep down does not believe you are going to be able to forgive her if she tells you the truth.... and lets face it you may not be able to. Its an awful lot to ask someone to do that.
Its painful, very very hurtful and feels like your whole life was lie. Thats how I made my H feel so I'm guessing you feel like that too.
Is it possible to forgive that level of betrayal? YES
Is it easy? NO

How do you do it? Well the beginning is to read all there is here and some of the books like 'His needs her needs' and learn what affairs do, how you can respond to them, and start working on resolutions and affair proofing your M.

And of course my guesses may be entirely wrong and all she's been doing for 20 yrs is playing verbal patty cake, but I dont think so.

I suppose there are three stark choices for you VS ....

One kick her to the curb etc etc...

Seduce a few willing women flaunt them in front of her, disrespect her as she has you, basically punish her until either she or you get sick of it and leaves ....

Attempt to build a new M out of the ruins of the old using MB methods, creating a place where she feels safe enough to tell you the WHOLE truth eventually, basically work like a dog to plan A her and gently romance her back into the M.

I'm not judging whats right for you VS, every one is different, everyone has their own point of saying 'thats it, let me off the merry-go-round.'
You may even go all through the MB process only to find at the end that 'no this M is not for me'.
THATS YOUR RIGHT.

However, remember its also hers too. The good thing here is that she seems to WANT to work on the M, thats a great start, the honesty and communication will come as time goes on as you both learn to fill each others EN's.
Remember also it does work!! My H forgave me, I'm forgiving me slowly as well, but does it hurt still? yes, I'm sure my H does too every now & then. Trust is still to be earned 100% but that is only natural. It might take years but thats just how it is. Sometimes something worth fighting for does take time.

If you chose to fight for your M it will be one of the hardest things you have ever done .... pretty brave as well & with no guarantees.

Regardless I pray you do chose to fight for the M as you obviously still love her despite the pain & hurt.

Good luck