For anyone still tuned in to the longest-running and most hopeless story on MB:

We had a great marriage for about the first ten years. Then he started climbing the corporate ladder and becoming a big shot. He met the office bimboes and quickly learned how easy it was to be married at home and single at work. He loved this lifestyle and had absolutely zero conscience about lying to me about it, nor about neglecting and ignoring me to take care of his current bimbo(es).

After many, many, many false recoveries (mostly because Mulan is too stupid to realize what he really is), he finally said he's come to the conclusion that he and I just have very different value systems and completely different ideas of what is okay in a marriage.

He says the problem is that I see marriage as "black and white" and I just do not understand that there are some "grey areas." If I would just relax and stop worrying about these "grey areas," everything would be fine.

He actually said that the only things he considers to be out of line in a marriage are:
1) Having sex with another person (I didn't bother to ask what his definition of sex is when it comes to this.)
2) Leaving the marriage to marry someone else.

Other than that, it's all just harmless friendship and "business" and nobody should worry about it. And that's how he really feels.

It's like being on the inside of a horror movie.

It's not like I didn't know this before. But it's like being hit with a sledge hammer to have to hear it from his mouth and know that he really does mean it.

As the gods are my witness, he did not start out this way. How can someone change so radically and so PERMANENTLY? And if the signs WERE there when I met him, how did I miss them?

These last two questions are asked in the interest of personal recovery. It should be obvious even to me that there is no hope whatsoever for this "marriage."
Mulan

sorry for coming into the horror movie late ...

just how inappropriate are these "friendships"?

So now that you have heard his version of the "truth"...whats next? Do you accept it? Are you going to live with it?

by the way, I've been getting the "friendship" schtick too and how that's her business as long as there's no sex involved. She says otherwise it should not concern me. right.... but I'm not get giving up.

what have you tried and why do you think there's no hope? His "truth" may change if circumstances change.

Hi, Mulan.

Quote:
================================
1) Having sex with another person (I didn't bother to ask what his definition of sex is when it comes to this.)
================================

So, why not repeat back his own statement and ask him if he recalls saying it. When he does, try this on for size;

"So, if I want to have a boyfriend, and we kind of mess around now and then, but no sex, then that would be okay, right? And I don't even have to tell you about it, right?"

He needs to know that his game can be played by more than just himself.

One thing for sure, whatever his rules are, he has done all of it, and broken his own game rules. He might as well have confessed.

Sorry, Mulan. That has to hurt.

God bless,
Gimble

Of course, these "rules" will be rewritten as circumstances change. Should he become overly emotionally involved with a bimbette, for example...



Yes, I get asked that question too -- couldn't I SEE he was like that? Yes, I could see he had those tendencies, but I didn't know they were going to take over. You may have a bad temper, but over the years you hope you'll get it more in control rather than, say, becoming an enraged ax murderer.

Our lawn may have dandelions and crabgrass, but whether those things take over is largely a matter of which things you fertilize, which things you weed. And that's up to us.

Mulan --
After being off the boards since the end of April, I got on to look for you and IP. Same story over and over.

Harley's program can be summed up in one sentence (in my opinion):"Love is a willingness to change."

Your husband's definition seems to be "Love is a willingness to tolerate."

Well? What are you going to do?
Cherished

Hi Mulan,

You must be hurting. I send you "hugs", and wishing I could be more helpful. Glad to see others are providing you with some insights.

Take care.

If there was EVER an impetus to get your "poop in a group" and separate/D from this unrepentant cheater...you have it now.

I hope you are making plans for the transition to being single...weren't you waiting for your DS to graduate from HS?

Don't lose focus...it doesn't seem like WH wants to change at all.

WNB (not the other name! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> )

***So, why not repeat back his own statement and ask him if he recalls saying it. When he does, try this on for size;
"So, if I want to have a boyfriend, and we kind of mess around now and then, but no sex, then that would be okay, right? And I don't even have to tell you about it, right?"***

Oh, I've done this. He says that as long as it's "work-related" -- which, so far, all of his outside relationships have been -- and there's no sex, then sure, it would be fine with him.

But don't they all say crap like this? Of course, this situation has never happened with *me* and I know he's never thought it would for a minute.

I'm sorry I posted. Really, I shouldn't have. There's no point in it. Someone once said that if you can't succeed at anything, you can always serve as a bad example for someone else. I guess that's what this is.

Yesterday was his birthday. I learned fairly recently that for at least the last 15 years, he's had private off-site birthday celebrations that I was never supposed to know about -- but he insists he cannot understand why on earth this would bother me since the women involved (sometimes just one woman, sometimes 2-3, and sometimes a mixed group) were all co-workers.

In his head ANYTHING that he can claim is work-related is (1) perfectly okay, and (2) NOT something that I need to know about. And in his world of twisted logic, if the other person is a co-worker, that makes ANYTHING you do with them "work-related!" Isn't that nice??? And people wonder why Mulan has totally lost her mind.
Mulan

Well, sure. But what's your plan? This isn't going to kill you. You probably have some years left in you. You don't need any more answers at this point, and you know things won't get magically better at this point. What's your plan?

Hi Mulan,

I'm very sorry.

My recovery and faith in my H are now based on the theory that people CAN change, and PERMANENTLY. If they can change for the better, we can only assume they can change for the worse, too (see it here all the time).

He was immersed in a seductive, ego-driven lifestyle. I'm a vp, I know. It can really be sick. I left a previous corp for just that reason (my new company is much more resonable). It was all about ego and money. They pump and pump up the ego, and some types just suck it up. Could you have seen this, I dont know. A little drive and ambition are good, most women want that in a mate. Guess it's like firguring out which person becomes an alcoholic. Who knows?

But now YOU KNOW... start lining up those ducks... - Dru