Why is it that I could say no when she couldn’t? I recently told my wife of two times within the last 6 months of women that wanted to have an affair with me and I turned them down. One of them was not so hard to say no to because she was my ex-girlfriend who I feel is just a little too crazy. I don’t want to come home to a boiling pot of water and wonder which of my pets is in there.

The other was while my wife was having her A. Towards the end of Undo’s A I started going to a local pool hall. Pool is something that I’ve always loved and have been pretty good at. While she was out on Wednesday nights I started to go out so I could have fun. Of course, during this time I never suspected there were any problems so it was just a way for me to have some fun. I had the time so I took advantage of it.

A few weeks after going I decided to purchase a pool table. It was scheduled to arrive one day after D-day… Friday, July 1st. I purchased it in the beginning of June and wanted to make sure that it would be delivered when I was going on vacation. It was going to be one of the best vacations at home I ever had.

My wife was very excited for me and is very familiar with my past and pool. She knows that I used to play quite often but eventually had to quit because it became quite expensive to play on a per hour basis at our current income. I was finally playing for the first time in years and having fun. She was asking me all the time about how much fun I had playing. People were lining up to play me because they wanted to see how they were against me. It gave my wife a sense of pride because she has seen when we would go to bars and people would beg to play me and talk about how good I am.

The last day I went to the pool hall was Wednesday, June 8th. A girl (about 23) who was very attractive had been talking to me since I started showing up. In the beginning it was simple and nothing to worry about. She noticed I was good and wanted me to teach her. I used to teach in the past so I didn’t think much of it and figured it would be fun.

The more I went the more friendly she became. I knew that she had a “crush” on me, but I figured it was harmless because of our age difference and I never really considered myself attractive. One thing that I have learned is that if you’re good at something and someone else of the opposite sex has a similar interest then you can bet there’s a chance the two of you will be able to start something.

She knew I was married and I never hid the fact of how much I love my wife. But, as time went on she didn’t hear me and tried to get closer. So close that on June 8th she made me too uncomfortable because of some of her sexual advances. That was my last time at the pool hall. All I wanted to do was play pool, not pick up girls or start anything.

My wife asked me the following Wednesday if I was would be going to the pool hall and I told her no. She wondered why and asked if I still liked pool. I told her that I do and I’m very anxious for the new table to arrive. I just said that it’s no big deal and that the table would be here in a few weeks and I could wait. The fact is I didn’t want her to know about the girl and give her the wrong impression.

Here’s the irony… my last day was June 8th, the day I walked away and said no. On that same day my wife had sex for the first (and last) time with the OM.

Why is it that I could say no to a girl who is 13 years younger than me and attractive but my wife could not? Don’t get me wrong, the girl knew how to push my buttons and I enjoyed being with her, all the way up until it started getting to be more then friends. I figure she could have worked me over so much that she would have put me in the hospital.

I didn’t tell Undo about this until last night. I figured if I would have told her earlier it would seem like a pathetic attempt to make her jealous. BTW, Undo has always known about my ex-girlfriend and her attempts to lure me into her bed. I never kept my wife in the dark on any details and she always knew when she was contacting me.

Why could I say no when she couldn’t? She says that she always loved me, but I feel that if she did then she would have done what I did. Is it possible that she wasn’t in love with me and she’s only trying to convince herself that she was because of guilt? My love has always been so strong that I had no problem walking away from anything that might harm the most wonderful gift I’ve ever been given… Undo’s love.

Dear Hopeful4future

(((HUGS)))

I’m sorry for your pain… Please understand that people are different… And you and your W are also different and two unique people… You see, both of you have different personalities; different experiences in life; different weaknesses, vulnerabilities, strengths, flaws, morals, emotional baggage etc. in life and these things determine how both of you will probably handle different situations & circumstances in life… And you & your W will not necessarily handle these things in the same way.

Some people are strong with minimum flaws, weaknesses & vulnerabilities in life so probably they will handle most situations in life perfectly and in the right way… And most probably these are the lucky people with minimum emotional baggage from childhood etc. who had all the tools available to help them become strong, emotionally stable people with minimum flaws, vulnerabilities etc.

But then there are others with a lot of baggage, weaknesses, vulnerabilities, low self esteem etc. and many times WS’s who get involved in A’s because of these things, are not even aware of these negative traits…and then they learn these things & other ‘lessons’ in life in the hard and most painful way…

Some people have “voids” in themselves (and these “voids” can be there because of different reasons) and then they try to “fill” these voids in destructive and wrong ways… Some try to fill in with alcohol or drugs… Some try to fill it in less destructive ways like emotional eating, compulsive spending, working etc. There are a MILLION ways people can try to fill these “voids” and negative feelings within themselves… And then there are those who try to fill these voids with destructive and inappropriate attention from other people…like having an A… Often when opportunities arise & a people are tempted, they are not strong enough to resist and then become involved in an A.

Also, people are not tempted by the same things… Some experience alcohol & drugs as a temptation, others are not… Some experience porn as a temptation, others are not… And then some will experience inappropriate attention from the opposite sex as an temptation and others will not… Some will be able to immediately tell the person to “back off” and others will not… For some it is easier to say NO, and for others it's not… Some people can easily be taken advantage off for different reasons and others not…

So, as you can see, there are not easy answers to your questions… Maybe the reason you could say NO and your W not was simply because your W failed to protect herself against her own weaknesses/vulnerabilities and you succeeded in doing this… Or maybe the reasons are far more complex than this... People make different choices; mistakes etc. in life for different reasons and because of different circumstances. And only you & your W can determine exactly why she had made these wrong choices...maybe through IC and MC. The most important is that people can determine and correct those things and/or take steps to protect themselves against their own weaknesses/vulnerabilities.

Hopeful4future, I had the chance to stop my involvement with FOM before it could progressed into a full EA. But after my experience I can understand how easily people can slip into A's if not very cautious and careful... If I can explain: Although my involvement haven't yet progressed to a serious level, however, the feelings I've developed (even sexual feelings) were extremely intense... So intense that it scared me... And because of this I can also have empathy for the weaknesses of people who get caught up in PA's. From my own experience I know how hard it is and how much willpower it take NOT to act on those feelings. I resisted to even give FOM a hug because I was afraid it would progress to more and I didn't trust myself... But I was lucky that certain internal factors (things within myself like anxiousness, fear etc.) helped prevented me from acting on those feelings... I think part of Satan's strategy is to use these inappropriate feelings people often develop for a member of the opposite sex to cause them to stray... And I think during infidelity these type of feelings are intensified to the 100th power.

Edited to add:
The fact that I've become involved in an inappropriate friendship and developed romantic feelings for FOM had nothing to do with my dear H... I've developed those feelings even while I love my H dearly and never wanted to do anything to hurt him... I can assure you that the fact that your W strayed and had an A had NOTHING to do with you or her love for you... Sometimes people have A's because certain EN's are missing in a M, but I believe betrayal goes much deeper than just unfulfilled EN's... The biggest problem lies within the WS's and betrayal can happen even though they love their spouses dearly...even while EN's are being met by the spouse...

Hope this could help and give you some insight,

Blessings,
Suzet

Post deleted by Suzet*

(This post was just to inform Hopeful4future about edit in previous post)

Suzet - Thanks for the input.

I think words are meaningless if not followed by actions. It seems to me that the fact that your wife was willing to have sex with another man behind your back, break her vows and destroy your trust while you refused to do the same thing speaks volumes about the depth of the committment to the marriage and respect you have toward each other. If you truly and deeply love and respect each other you do not have sex with another man and put your husband's health at risk for STD's while he is playing pool. I think you said No because you respect your wife far too much to inflict such pain on her and you did not wish to threaten the stability of your marriage. Unfortunately, the sad truth was that your wife did not feel the same way. She can say she loved you all of the time but her actions say different.
The bottom line is that your wife simply was not as committed to the marriage and to the respect of her spouse as you have been. It is sad but true.

I also want to add that sometimes it takes the right combination of disaster in someones life to get them in just the right negative cycle that allows the justification. My H had turned down an affair early in recovery - he placed himself on high morals, that when it came down to it he couldnt do it. that he would leave first. 6 months into recovery though - he wasn't just hurting from my A anymore, he had fallen into that negative cycle...and he convinced himself he had stayed honorable by leaving before it became a PA...That it wasn't an affair.

Now that we are recovered, he sees how his was an affair too and how he wasn't as strong as he thought...and realizes how the negative cycle if it is JUST right, can hit anyone. Why was his an affair too? He met her 2 weeks before asking for the seperation, and before the seperation took place, he was already planning to meet her, planning a future with her, they were having a big old dream together...and only 3 weeks after he seperated from me, before it was even legalized, and without talking to me during those 3 weeks, he drove to her city and they consumated the dream....his justifications were - but I am done with my wife - it's over, I have been out of the marriage for months...i left before it became physical. This coming from a man who just couldn't do it before.

I believe that with the right ingredients anyone could possibly be prone to one, even the most strong of us - it just has to have the perfect mix of time and events.

I know that once my H discovered this, his anger of my A subsided. He still hurts, as do I for his, but he understands the dynamics now, and how it easy it became for him to hurt me without meaning to, he now understands how easy it became for me to hurt him without meaning to. We don't understand eachothers reasons why...but that's okay.

I just believe that unless you have God there, even the most committed of us could stray if the ingredients were just....right. It's why I had never strayed before this time, and had opportunities and were disgusted by it. So why this particular time - it most certainly wasn't the OM - he was no catch - it was the right combo of ingredients in my life at that time....same with H....I don't think anyone is safe unless they have God, or they know all their weaknesses and protect them.


Bryan,

I was a FWW, and yes I SHOWED no respect for my H, and I SHOWED no love for my H, but the sad truth is - I did love and respect him during my A...the problem was that I PUT MYSELF AHEAD OF EVERYTHING AND ANYONE during that time, so everyone got neglected, my kids, my husband - and my warped thinking of taking care of myself first didn't mean I respected or loved my H first, but it appeared I did due to the fact that everything I did was based on ME, and not how it would effect anyone else.

BUT you are right in saying I wasn't committed. I THOUGHT I was committed as I never wanted to leave for OM, I wanted to make my marriage work during that time, but the truth of the matter is - I kept the A going, which means all my commitment was thrown out. BUT let me tell you, on D-day I recommitted, and have never faltered, never failed on that commitment. YOU CAN recommit,and mean it. But it requires a while lot of work in looking at yourself and why you didn't commit in the first place so you can avoid not comitting again.

Hopeful

I asked myself this question 1001 times. My history with my XW was always a very stormy one. My upbringing, my anger, her insecurities, her jealously, her perception and reality all had input on how she made her choice. She truly believed I did not care nor love her. That is my fault. I traveled for work with very attractive women in their early 20's when I was 30. I never did anything with any of them that would even be close to inappropiate. She was convinced I had a bevy of women and I was a "player". After a period of time her anger and jealousy became a large issue and I ignored it. This only fostered her perceptions. Reality was quite different. She had an affair. She ended it. She tried to move on (I never knew) but within months I got the I love you but...speech and she asked for a divorce. I was devastated. And my he11 really began. After a year she changed her mind and I dumped a huge amount of money in our house to make her happy. It was under the premise that we would work on our marriage. We never did.

We would go through periods that were OK, not great just OK. Because most of my life things were just OK, I was fine. Then she began drinking heavily. She began to get violent. She would shut me out for months. I began finding excuses to get away. I began working on and racing cars (I'm a CPA for God's sake!!). I began taking photographs for racing magazines. I bought a snowmobile. I hunted heavily in the fall. Occasionally, I would beg her to work on our marriage. It was around this time that I noticed that a married co worker began coming over as he dealt with his own marriage issues. His wife, a certified nut, accused them of having an affair. I got the "only friends speech"..but in hindsite it was an EA that continued long past his divorce, and he was a "family friend" not just hers (Now I know better). When I noticed he only showed up when I was racing (or somewhere else) I told her "no more". He is clearly here for all the wrong reasons. At the time I had no idea what an EA was. Now I do. She ended it at my home but they did work together??.

Within a year my he11 just got worse. We spent time in seperate rooms. She treated me like crap and I did the same in return. We withdrew from friends and each other. My home became a place to sleep and I kept running. I was lonely. I was alone.
One night on the way home from a race track I stopped to get coffee for the hour long ride home. I got too friendly with a waitress. I began an EA. I began to look forward to that track so I could get coffee. I would call and E-mail her. However, I told my wife at the time. "I could have an affair" along with why. Her response was "Go ahead, then you can move out and I can divorce you". So I continued my struggle. At one point I made plans to go away for a weekend with this OW. It would become a PA. When it came time for that weekend. I cancelled it. I could not do it. I still do not know why. I just could not. My EA continued though. She knew I was married and very unhappy. I thought for real, that we were "just friends"...I really did. Then my W heard a voicemail from her "Hi it's just me, have fun this weekend"...my W went APE$HIT. We tried counsleing and her goal was an "amicable split"..mine was save the marriage. It lasted 2 months but after 5 years of he11....we split..and the rest was history...

So..this verbose response tells you a few things:

we made the same choices and our W's did too.

What I know now helps me make sure we're never there again, either one of us.

During our MC session yesterday our MC said that "this is a new relationship that is going very well, don't let the past mess it up anymore". I agree. However, like a burn victim who got a pot of boiling water dumped on him, I have deep scars that hurt occasionally. It's why I am here. To watch, learn (MOST IMPORTANT) and if I can help. So in closing I hope this helped.

I think it's obvious who was more committed to the marriage and had more faith in our love at the time. I wish I could say that I should have just had the affair, but deep down inside I cannot. A part of me wants revenge, but I'm also glad that I can say that I believe in our marriage enough to not want revenge.

I think you're out in left field here, Bryan. People give themselves permission to have affair for a lot of reasons. They are not operating from a healthy place.

Would it surprise you to know that my commitment to keeping my marriage and family together is one of the factors that SUPPORTED my decision to have an affair? I reasoned that I had no choice because I had obligations to my wife and family, but I also NEEDED what the OW was offering...so an A was the most logical and least damaging choice. I did love and respect my family and felt that an A was far less disrespectful than simply divorcing them. I'm not saying that was healthy...it wasn't. But it's how I was thinking.

Many make the mistake of thinking WS are making these decisions with clear intent. I'm sure some may be, but I doubt that most are.

I think Suzet hit it right. An affair occurs because something has happened in the WS such they give themselves permission AND the opportunity presents itself.

So, many times the opportunity is there, like in the pool hall, but he just wasn't there mentally...so no affair.

I happen to believe that that MOST PEOPLE will find themselves in a vulnerable state at some point in the marriage. IF the affair opportunity is avaiable it could happen to them also.

As Suzet said, there are people who are better prepared to manage crisis in there live better than others, so they are better able to protect themselves.

Hopeful..

There is a part of me that still wants revenge. My situation is unique in the sense that my W and I seperated and divorced. We had a very seperate lives. I dated many people, she chose to go to familiar territory and dated her old EA. I was not a manwhore by any sense but she saw it that way. I was dead, lonely and defeated. I did not know what I wanted, but it was nice to have attention, someone to have dinner with, etc. I knew what I wanted and it was not attainable (her), that reality was extremely difficult to accept. Through hard work I always got what I wanted. So...I began my new life. I did date someone very seriously for a few months but she knew she would always be second. I could not even speak to my XW, did not want to see her and was ALL business when we did communicate (kids).

Even after reconciling and in recovery I wanted revenge. My old GF contacted me and I told my XW about it. I told her I wanted revenge. We did something new in our relationship, we communicated. She asked if I needed help not going to see my old GF. She also told me that she would rather I went and "resolved it". I told her I know better because of this place. I realized that revenge was a fleeting emotion, I did not dwell on it. Just the fact that it crossed my mind, knowing my pain (and honestly hers) terrified me, I thought I was nuts...

What you're dealing with is a trauma and the mind does terrible things to you sometimes...

By the way...to her my EA was just as "bad" as her PA and EA's and I know she is correct but I did not go that one extra step. Was it being committed to my marriage? No, that was all about ME....it was my choice...

Did you know that images of H and OW sleeping together and being physically intimate never bother me or even pop up in my mind. The hurt I am dealing with are the hours of conversation she got, the things she got to hear him say and see him do, the time he devoted to spend with her that he hasn't spent in years with me doing, the 3am talks about his hopes and dreams that i was no longer a part of...the EA is far harder for me to swallow...especially after my 6 months of trying everything in my power to work on the marriage following my A.

And for my H, he never dwelled on what OM and I talked about, or the time we spent together - for him, it was the images of me being physical with another man - the physicalness of it - the being intimate naked with someone other than him. The EA barely effected him, but the PA part of it destroyed him.

I think it has alot to do with needs...if one of your top 3 needs is SF and your wife gave it to someone else - ouch...and in my case, one of my top needs was affection and conversation...and it was given to someone else..ouch.

It's wierd, but I guess that shows how different men and women are - for most women it is the EA that hurts the most, and for men it's the PA that hurts the most - of course with some exceptions...

Hopeful,

Some of it has to do with how well you guarded your marriage boundaries during the period your pool buddy was coming on to you while your W did not.

Likewise, in my dealings with other men in the workplace, I have always kept them at arms length. I do not socialize with men I come into contact with from work - not even lunch. I will only do things in a group setting. I do not go out to the bar after work with my coworkers. I just won't put myself in tempting situations or in a circumstance that could even appear questionable. Social interactions outside of work are and were always with my H present. I was always guarding the boundary of my marriage because that was my understanding of appropriate behavior when married. My H on the other hand was registered on a sexually explicit website geared towards finding sex partners. Nice.

Sometimes it really is because you were the better person right then.

Dorry,

"The hurt I am dealing with are the hours of conversation she got, the things she got to hear him say and see him do, the time he devoted to spend with her..."

I will have to say this really bothers me, too. I wonder what we could have talked about during that time. How much did she change due to the influence of the OM. The secret life my wife lived was fun to her and misery for me. My wife just never wanted to talk to me that much. Instead she would sit in front of the computer rather than be with me.

I really feel that I don't know her that well because everything to me was a lie. Even our sexlife was a lie. She told me recently that she would sometimes fantasize about the OM while making love to me. That's a sting that's not going away anytime soon.

That's exactly what I did to my H...I even became a very sexual flirty person as OM was just like that. My poor husband had to deal with this out of control wife...and then in the evenings I would rather be online chatting away then spending time with him...I can never take that back, I can never undo that hurt I caused my H.

And later, when H got into his EA, I then really felt what he felt - the hours of being online with his OW, the distance between us - the choice of being online with her on our anniversary over spending it with me...then eventually leaving me. It's a hurt I never wanted to feel.

H and I have hurt eachother so deeply, but we also know how much we love eachother, and are making all the nessessary tune ups and changes to prevent us from ever doing something of this caliber to eachother again.

Remember too that H didn't have his A until 6 months into recovery. It's scary as when you and Undo first started posting , you guys sounded so eeriely like Sprint and I did when we started posting back in January. So full of hope, so commited to making it work, you so devoted to her.

Just protect yourself. All the BS's here will tell you around the 6 month mark you get an anger...it's a tough time..and for my H - that was when he was weak...we did 4 months of what I thought wsa a great recovery. But I didn't realize that my personal recovery was way further ahead then my marriages recovery or my H's recovery.

Take it one day at a time, try not to dwell - work through your anger, don't supress it, and realize that undo is probably like me, very commited to making the changes, making it work, and moving forward in a life with you that is better, changed yes, but better.

Patience...and keep yourself protected at all times, don't think you are immune to affairs as my H thought he was. His thinking he was immune and that it wasn't in his moral code always made me feel as if I was less than him, dirtier than him, that he was better...when in reality - he is only human, as I am only human and we can all fall.

Dorry,



Hmm... consider me someone who likes to move fast in class. Depression usually comes later for me, right now I have a lot of anger. I've had so much anger lately that I've had to look up anger management so I won't screw things up.

Hopefully my IC will give me some ideas, cause these last couple of days I've just felt a lot of rage. Especially since I discovered about her fantasizing of OM at times during our love making.

Dear Hopeful,
I so understand the rage. D-Day for me was 3 days before you. I spend a great deal of time in my car alone. I have ranted and raved, screamed and cursed, cried and cried more. I have always been easily angered when I felt someone being unfair. This is the most unfair thing that has ever happened to me (at least that is my perception at this time) and I have been so angry. My IC said I have every right to be angry, but we are still working on it.

One of the ways I work it out is to write. I journal a lot, but I also write letters to my FWH and to OW. I don't mail them, but it feels so good to write it out.

I was so bothered by the fact that he did this to me. I thought we were ok. I had no idea anything was going on. I watched the Oprah show in the spring where there were 7 cheating husbands and I remember, while watching it last week, thinking I am so glad we are not going through anything like this. That was the exact time frame of the A.

I kept trying so hard to figure out what I could have done better, what I should not have done, what I . . .what I . . . When I told the IC, he reminded me that God was the perfect lover in the Garden of Eden and even his own creation chose to betray Him. We all have a choice. It is how we react to that choice that matters.

It is so sad that so many make the wrong choice. However, I am sure there are many times the rest of us also make wrong choices. Those choices may not end up in an affair, but they are still wrong choices.