PB,

Merry Christmas to you, your Mom and your dog.

I hope every BS can read your thread from the beginning...find comfort in your words...and the great friends you made here...holding each other up through it all.

Blessings to you...as you are to MB. Thank you.

LA

Hi Paradise!

Happy Holidays to you too! I'm always glad to hear from you and especially when you sound as good a you do now. Things do have a way of mellowing and becoming easier to deal with over time don't they?

A great Christmas here! My kids are doing great, I'm having a lot of fun out in the marsh with Jaime and life is good. I even met someone new and have a lot of hope that this could be something special given a chance.

It's good to hear you talk about the shared memories with Midnight in a good way again. We all need to remember there were good times with our former spouses too. It's way too easy to only remember the ugly ending we endured with them.

Have a great New Year!

duk

Wow, this sounds somewhat like my situation. Although my H and the OW didn't have sexual intercourse there was oral sex involved not that it makes any difference. I was so DEVASTATED. We have been together for 29 years. 24 of them married.

About 3 years ago he had something happen that devasted him and he wouldn't talk to me or let me in. I tried and tried to reach him but no luck-tried to get him to go to couseling, a doctor for depressants,... etc.

Then a year ago my brother-in-law was killed in a hit and run. My whole family was so devasted and so I grieved for a year and sorta came out of that this year to find out about the affair. it is still new and yes I was in such shock that I was numb.

I wanted him to move out but he refused. He wanted to work on our marriage. After seeing how sorry he was and that he was really trying hard I decided to try to work things out. We went to our priest. I also told my sister but as it was her husband that was killed she is not really able to check up on my H to let him know she is watching him. She is still in denial of the accident and can hardly function.

Anyway my H still is working at the same place as the OW and has to deal with her. I just found out 2 days ago that he picked up a Wii for her kids (that she paid for). I was sooooooo angry. He said it was because it was dicussed in a group of people and she had to pick it up near where we live. It was way out of her way to get it and it would have looked weird to coworkers if he hadn't. It was one of those Craig's list items so not a store thing. I don't care!! One of the items he promised me was only work contact ONLY not anything else and that was hard enought for me to agree to in front of our priest.

We had just started having sex again (when I found out no sex for 1 1/2 months)-then he had a surgery so no sex- and he wanted to start sex up again but I said not until she is out of your head and out of your nonwork life. What should I do? When is it right to start the sex up again? I am so unsure of myself now.

Since we don't have a lot of money we have been using information that I got from **edit** to help us.

Any input appreciated. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

HAPPY BIRTHDAY B!

Hope all is well up in the frozen north and you are happy tomorrow on your birthday. I'm sure you will make it a great day.

duk

Hiya Duk,

Thank you so much! So sweet of you to remember. I had a great birthday, strung out over several days filled with outings with friends and kind remembrance.

Life is all good here; I have been working on a new plan and making progress. My brother flies in for a week stay in early February and I am very much looking forward to just chillin with him.

It sounds like you are doing really well too. I am very happy to think that after all those difficult months you are out of the shadow of all that hurt and pain.

It really does fade. Thankfully.


Big Big Big Hug

B

Dear Berniece_N

So sorry that you find yourself here, but really I can think of no better place to be. This site if full of expert and very practical information on how to deal with the emotional upheaval you are going through.

I wish you strength, patience, humor and a loving heart.

Paradise

Dear Paradise,

I just spent a couple of days off and on reading through this post. Since one of my fundamental beliefs is that we are all gifts, though admittedly some of us are more like buried treasures. I love being able to see the gifts in others. Your's didn't take too much effort at all, but I believe there is way more in you than what you have so graciously shared.

Wow! It is rare today to see someone . . .how did you say it? "shining through during adversity" a show of true character. You are a true inspiration.

I wish I had a friend like you. I am about 10 years agewise younger than you, I can fully relate with you and am realizing that for me 50 is not too far off. I aspire to be as courageous and as positive as you when it arrives. . . I believe I'm on my way.

I love Good Coffee (Starbucks) My daughter (20) works there actually and very interesting . . . today she decided to bless someone in the drive through and pay for their coffee, that person decided to pay for the person behind them . . and so on . . .she called me today (she is over 1000 miles away) and said how excited she was because it kept going on for 96 consecutive drive thru customers. A feeling of the goodness and kindness of others . . .being passed on - I'm very proud of her.

My D day was almost a year ago now and things for me have turned out unexpectedly well. We have been in MC for about a year now - that has been helpful and surprising - in that our particular counselor has spent a lot of time with us individually working on individual issues and then also meeting with us as a couple. I feel totally blessed in the fact that I don't have to drag him - he really wants to do the work. I am very thankful.

Someone told me that I was lucky - I personally believe luck has nothing to do with it at all. Relationships and love are choices, and though it is great to have those highly charged romantic days filled with holding hands, smiling at each other over candlelight and fine wine - they are the rich "harvests" rewards of seeds planted in seasons past.

Another realization was that it had been a while since I planted seeds. It's funny how easy we can grow into taking each other for granted. (A side note: my husband was snoring last night and I remembered what you wrote about being thankful that he was breathing - that he was choosing to spend his life with me. I remember going to sleep being thankful instead of annoyed - Thank You)

My FWH was very remorseful and one of the biggest things that helped me was the realization that "It wasn't about me" He didn't even try to blame me.

This site has been helpful, though I have not been an active poster. I have mostly read others, it has helped me feel like the journey I've been on in my personal healing is one that I am not alone in. Your posts stand out as a shining beacon of light.

It would be an honor to meet you and talk with you should our paths ever cross. Some of my story I have put in responses to other posts, I don't know how to link it up though.

You seem like the kind of person who can make anyone feel good! A sort of party on wheels bringing laughter and joy with you wherever you go. Celebrating the moments! Living a life rich with memories of days well spent. I pray for you that to the degree of the suffering you've endured, that it would be to a greater degree of joy and surprise and success for you in the days, weeks, and months to come. You are a genuine inspiration! And a great writer!

Many blessings to you!

ps. sorry about your dad - I really admired the dynamics of your relationship with him from what you shared.

Hi There Itwasntaboutme,

I love the thought that we are all gifts. Thank you for sharing it. Knowing you are blessed is perhaps the most wondeful blessing of all. It is even more wonderful if you can share it with your family.

The image of your daughter's kindness stretching out into a long line of generousity really made me smile.

I am very happy you have found this site. It is full of wisdom and perspective. Somehow life's intense moment's always make us reach out, hold on, connect.

Everyone i have met here is worth connecting too.

Big Hug,

Paradise

Journal

Thought I would post a few lines.

It is still dark before dawn and very quiet. I really like this time of day - so still and peaceful. There is a bigness in the quiet somehow.

Life goes on and perhaps the only constant to the experience is change. Sometimes change comes as painful upheaval and drama and at other times it is so gradual you only notice if you are really paying attention.

I often wonder how everyone is doing. I will stop for a moment and picture Dukhuntr in his garden with Jamie collapsed in the shade panting or Eibrab with her horses. Reading the stories and posts in this forum were so helpful to me - somehow knowing I was not alone in facing loss and hurt made it easier. Perhaps the most addictive human condition is community.

It makes me smile to think that.

I watched Eckhart Tolle speak last night on Oprah.com, (he wrote The New Earth). Towards the end of the show, Oprah read an email from a woman which closed with the phrase .. " Life is a gift,live every day like a thank you note." I really like the sentiment.

So once again thank you to one and all.

And just because ... this one is so much fun!

Hi B!

I have been out in the yard planting but Jaime never lays down in the shade when we are out there. She has her ball and wants to play!!! She barks constantly until Dad relents and starts pitching the ball around the yard for her to go and retrieve. Takes twice as long to do anything but it does bring a smile to my face seeing her so excited. She's beginning to show her age at 9yrs old. She had some rough Sunday's this year out hunting. Slow to rise in the morning and sore until she got moving during the day. I tried to leave her in with my folks once but that became a wrestling match and my 75yr old parents were not up to the task. Labs are so dang loyal and love to hunt more than I do that's for sure.

Everything okay up north? I hope Blue is getting his beach time in! Kinda sounded like you needed a trip to me. I hope you are well and that you are happy always. Your words and thoughts still come to me often when I need them.

duk

HAPPY BIRTHDAY EIBRAB!

Just in case you still check in now and then I thought I would wish you a happy and joyful birthday! I haven't heard any hunting stories lately and I miss hearing from you.

duk

Hi Dukhuntr,

So nice to hear you are doing well! Made my day. It is late here, the dog and I have just gone for a long walk by the water. One of those lovely late spring nights where the air feels like velvet.

Life is good! I really do enjoy each day. I read back through some of the posts on this thread and it almost seems like a different person was writing them. Still working away on various projects, going out lots, reading, running, I feel blessed. The saying "this too will pass" - is so true of everything really.

Dukhuntr you have a great memory for birthdays! I must have missed yours. I send you belated Happy Birthday wishes and an apology for being late.

Hi Eibrab,

I hope Dukhuntr's birthday wishes find you... very happy and surrounded by all that you love and all those you love - both two legged and four legged.

Drop us a line we would love to hear how you are!

I will keep checking in from time to time. Hoping for news!

P

PB and Dukhunter!

I have been selfish in not visiting here. I apologize. The two of you have never left my thoughts and prayers, and I agree, PB..that we have all changed a great deal.

Many, MANY rough days here... not sure if I see sunshine yet.

I am also not sure why I keep trudging on...but I will share my constant thought at the end here..

Back earlier this year, H started acting horribly AGAIN. Just the meanest, ever. To make a long story short, he started legal proceedings against MOW to start visitation with the child without informing COM or I. He made it all the way to the second court date before I figured it out. He and MOW became the best of friends... talking whenever they wished and such.

It is apparent that he made some lofty promises to MOW to get what he wanted here... including the premise of "evicting" me! He actually told a few choice people around town that he was doing so (never told me per say) and drew up phoney papers to prove to MOW.

While his actions are inexcusable, what kind of stupid woman signs over her child (shared parenting - he got) goes AGAINST her husband, who happened to hire his own attorney after he finally was told, and does this? Makes one wonder how deep her hatred of me must run.. she did this all to make sure I was finally gone..without regard to what it has done to her family or mine.

To me..I suspect that this is all about control with the big man here...and it is soon going to come and bite him in the backside I am sure.

At the beginning, I was told that I would never meet this child, as I would be "horrible" to him.. I kept my mouth shut, I caused no waves..I sat and watched this odd soap opera play itself out.

Oh..and I started classes at the local college in the meantime. Made the Dean's list my first semester!

Slowly, I saw H's attitude chnage.. DD wrote an amazing letter to the local paper for Mother's Day about me for a contest and the whole county saw it! (I'll email it to you, Duk . H made a big ruckus for my birthday...the first time in years.

AND... he brought his child to me this week. I met him.

I am sure that sparks will fly when MOW finds out, if they have not already - and I suspect that they started back when MOWH and I put our heads together, too late for MOW to change her mind...a dear friend of mine called H a "brillant jacka*#". He uses everyone to get what he wants.. and that's apparently what he did here.

If no one had ever known the true parentage of this child, or had it been a girl (sadly) he would not have done this. Right now, I'd like to know his motivation. I did not see some great bond between H and the child..and the child is a real handful.

My COM were very calm, respectful children.. this one, well..My DD is taking this well, after having spent one seriously stressful evening telling her father what she thinks of him, while DS is not taking this well and stays in his hole for the most part. I actually took my children and escaped for a weekend at the beginning of May without prior notice to H, though we left a polite note. We all needed it. I think it was a turning point in our lives. DS continually tells me how much he loves me and sorely avoids his father, though he is respectful. His grades are good, his baseball is outstanding and he seems ok, but I worry about my little boy.

The horses are good. I spent last weekend judging a very prestigious show and was quite honored to be in that position. I silently sat there thinking to myself.."I wonder what all of these folks would say if they knew what a mess my personal life was?".. LOL

Sometimes, I humorously feel like white trash in a fifth avenue mindset.

The tortoises are awaiting Summer. It has been so cold and wet here. It is Memorial Day weekend and most farmers in our area do not have one seed planted. I'd say this is karma coming around for J, but I'd suspect that his bad karma wouldn't also be hurting the other poor farmers.

For my whole life as long as I can remember..my favorite number has been 46. I nuke my morning coffee for a minute and 46 seconds, Andy Pettitte's NY # is 46, oh and I could go on.. what I never realized until leafing through a magazine was the meaning of the 46th Psalm.

"Be still and know that I am."

That's how I am living...

I am so touched to be here with you both this morning...

Eibrab

Eibrab,

How in the world can a Yankee fan be such a wonderful person?????
It's just not natural!!!!

It is so good to hear from you once again even if things have been tough. I read the letter your DD wrote and it's something all of us can sense and feel about our friend Eibrab. DD put into words what you mean to her in a way that shows the love and respect she has for you. That had to make you feel good about youself and the way you have handled yourself thru all of the ordeals life has thrown your way.

My DD's wedding down in Mexico is three weeks away. I am reaching deep and trying to do as much as I can to make sure this comes off just like she wants it to. I am a little leery of the EX and her family and my family all being in the same place at the same time with free booze available to all of them. May end up being the Hatfield's and McCoy's all over again but it won't be because of me or anything I did. All I want to do is walk my little girl down the aisle and enjoy the moment I have been imagining for 27 years.(That and pay off the dang thing!)
I offered her a big bribe when she and her fiance got engaged to just elope and save us all the grief, but now that it is here I am looking forward to the big event. I am very glad she didn't take the money and run.

We will always be happy to hear from you too! Chime in now and then and let us know you are well and hopefully happy.

duk

Good morning Paradise, duk and 46 !!! I took a break from the boards for various reasons and have recently started reading here again.

Paradise, you are exactly where I knew you would be. Your story and growth here have touched so many, please be comforted by that fact. Everyone reading here wishes you were their best friend in rl !!!

duk - You are a man of men. You may not have found the woman for you, but -- much more importantly, you have found yourself. side note - I recently caught my first fish in the pond very close to my home. Apparently bologna is the secret !!

Eibrab (46) - I am concerned for you with all that you have been dealt. Only you will know when enough is enough... my admiration to you as you have held your head high through all this adversity. I applaud you 46 !!

Now on to me -- Recent developments have resulted with my husband of 12 years leaving our house. Not only has he left home, he has left the state.

Drinking seems to be his demon or maybe not... perhaps he drinks because he feels entitlted, as so many do who have cheated. Anyway, because of this drinking he has lost another job and I had had enough.

Slight background - My first divorce (after 27 years of m ) left me with a sizeable bank account. Enter husband #2 .... in short, he took advantage of the situation and helped me to spend most of the $$$. For this, I am very bitter. I realize that I had a say in it, but I thought - wanted, my husband to be a provider and it seemed hard for him to do just that.

I sent him to school twice - AC and CDL, neither of which he worked at very long. After losing another job, drinking related, I told him that I just could not live like this anymore. I now have a retail job, which I like alot, but at this point in my life and with what I had at one time, resent the fact that I get up every day to go to work while he is content to *look* for another job and drink beer. Enough is enough -- finally...

Oh, and add the disputed fact that he cheated on me for years with a serious, younger gf. As he is a conflict avoider, he (sober) will not admit any of it to me... drunk, things come out...

His good points -- I did fall head over heals in love with him. Looking back, I never was in love with my first H and this was almost my first love -- at 46 !!! I lusted him big time, unfortunately, he never did lust me.... I do believe that he loves me with all his heart, almost in a caring way... sf hardly ever.... as to my dismay...

We really enjoy each others company... but I have just become too resentful over all that has happened... and the drinking around the clock ended his last job with me... he thinks, thought, nothing of quitting or getting fired because of his drinking -- because he knew that I would make sure that the (my) bills would get paid one way or another... him using the situation to his advantage...

So -- he is gone, for a week or so.... even has left the state. Ozarks where he wanted to live and really is a paradise.... we talk some, but surprisingly, or not so... my heart just isn't in it anymore.... I do believe that I have had enough...He did not want to leave, duh.... but I insisted.

I have always questioned, since being with him.... just how important is love anyway ???? because I do feel that we are in love.... but come on, I have to start looking out for myself here... certainly can't count on him...

Plese give me your thoughts and wisdom on my current situation... I do feel in a pretty good place... but question if I am doing the right thing...

My love to you 3 !!!!!


carnation

I've posted a number of times on the physiology of infatuations. It is the only way I was able to cope with my FWW's affair (she is also 50, but is often thought to be no more than late 30's). She exhibited the same craziness and insanities as your husband towards her OM. I was ready to file for divorce, when I stumbled on some articles on infatuations, and how your brain is very heavily influenced (I won't say controlled, though) by hormones which make one addicted to another person. I was given hope from these articles, in that first, the infatuation strongly influences the person, to the extent that they do things (lie, deceive, cheat, be totally insensitive to their spouse) they never before could imagine doing, and second, the state of infatuation is only temporary, and eventually fades. ('the honeymoon's over'). Once the honeymoon, or infatuation, ends, the relationship goes through a period of doubt, where each partner questions, to some extent, the wisdom of the relationship. During this phase, the relationship may just fizzle out on its own (which is why there are many divorces after 2 years of marriage), or the two may work through their doubts, and develop a more sincere, true form of love, more typical of long-term married couples.

With this in mind, I tried to be patience during the first several months of their affair, because I knew there wasn't a chance during that time for reconciliation. I just maintained a Plan A. When I sensed cracks in their relationship, though, I switched to a Plan B and discussed with her some sort of separation arrangement where we would both be free to date others. Like your H, my W had always assumed I would be there, always ready to take her back. She also learned that there was another woman who was attracted to me. Seeing that she might actually lose me, she seriously began to reconsider her affair. Simultaneously (which I discovered later) OM was basically doing the same thing. He had fallen in love with WW, and became insanely jealous as well at the thought of me and WW still having SF. He essentially Plan B'ed her, as well. So, she was forced to choose one, at the risk of losing both. It was then she agreed to a NC.

She later, after the fog began to clear, admitted that it was the fact that I actually might find another woman that convinced her to end the affair and come back. She says now, however, that she can never fully trust me (a classic example of the 'pot calling the kettle black'), and that she no longer holds me up on a pedestal, since I flirted with this other woman. But that suits me just fine. As long as she thought I would always be there, regardless of what she did (expecting me to be her little doormat), she had no incentive to come back, and would see no problem of continuing her A as long as it suited her.

I can't say the same strategy would work in your situation, but there are enough similarities to at least consider the idea of a solid plan B, if you can sense when the infatuation may be waning. That would be the most effective time to do so.

btt

for comments and help from my friends

Carnation!

Oh, how I have wondered about you!

AND.. I have to admit, that I am very tickled for you. You sound so strong, so sure of yourself. You sound good!

I completely understand having been at a "better" point in your life, whether it be financially or other, and allowing someone to bring you down. That's what you sort of did, and what I've done at times, too. But we are strong enough to recognize that and put an end to it.

I am so proud of you. I mean really, REALLY proud. You'd have thought I had a hand in the turns your life has taken, lol.

I'd say to keep your space from H right now. Talk if you care to, but if the feeling aren't there, then you are so much better off. In my life, I am trying to take my time and decide if the feelings are "there" or if it's a sense of not letting the other's win. Silly, I know.

Tiny tidbit for you...I was asked to come down to the local sheriff's dept. for questioning of an unsigned letter sent to many members of the local little league that MOW and H are involved with.. it was logically slamming H and MOW and some others. Am I ticked beyond belief for the questioning? Oh yes.. was it wrong and possibly illegal? Oh yes, as the deputy admitted there was no criminal intent and only facts were stated.. I think someone called in a favor here.. But, but..BUT.

This means others are watching and they agree with the lunacy of it all.

Ah, but sitting back and watching is so much fun. Who ever said the meek shall inherit the world, just may be right.. but again, meek is in the eye of the beholder, right?

I'm so happy to hear from you..

Blessings,

Eibrab

HI Carnation!

I'm so sorry to hear this about your H. I am happy to hear the resolve in your post. You have been thru this before and you knew in your own heart what you needed to do and just did it. It's not something we wished to learn about in our lives but the knowledge we have now about WS's empowers us to be a little stonger now. It will never be painless, just a whole lot easier to deal with and handle than the first time.

From the tone in your post I know you will manage this and come out the better for it. Good people will always survive and thrive given the time and space to do so. Take a page from PB's book and go out and do something entirely for yourself. Take a trip, go out and join a club or get back to the gym. Something that is just for you. I'll be out here rooting for some good things to happen in your life.

Your friend,

duk

((( Eibrab ))) ((( duk )))

Seeing your replies to me made me smile from ear to ear.. But, don't praise me too highly...That is the very reason why I posted here, to have a little sounding board and feedback...

Generally, I feel at peace with my decision ..... other times - I question it and wonder what am I throwing away ?? I know, I know.... but that is why I am posting here, to feel my way through this or out of it.

I truly think and feel that my H and I love each other very much and I suppose you could accurately say -- in love. But I can only speak for myself, not him, although I do believe it to be very true for him also.

On the other hand --- if this *love* is costing me my well being and self worth.... then it's not love ?? or worth it any way ??

This is what is troubleing me... the *what ifs*.... I guess that is just life.... and I do know that I can NOT live with him the way I have for all these years.... It is costing me more important things than money... but money is up there !!

All those years of him being on the road made me very self sufficient and enjoy my alone time.... frankly, I love it !!! My sil rescued a little dog this past fall from the street and I have taken her in.... Not only did I save her.... She saved me too !! Nothing like a little loving doggy for therapy !!! It def is a win-win situation with her....

So, I do realize, as he does - that I am used to living basically by myself. It is a small house and not room enough for me, a dog and a drunk !!! This I know.

Perhaps it seems weird that we are separating, divorcing when we really aren't fighting or getting along... we do... It just has gotten to be too much for me.... I think....

I guess I am just not totally sure of my decision right now... I do miss him... but not the bad stuff.... does any of this make sense ???? I know it takes a long time to adjust to a divorce.... not sure if I can go the distance, as much as it is the BEST thing for me.... I think...

Hmmm.... maybe *I* am the conflict avoider in this marriage.... oh no.... if we both are --- we will never be free of it....

Thanks sooooo much for being here for me.... I truly, truly am grateful for it.....


carnation