Many of you know my story. In the past few weeks you have learned some of my W's feelings as well.<P>We are both posting here. We are trying to work on our marriage. But I still have soooo many questions. . . . .<P>Many of you have commented that a lot of the problems between my W and I stem from problems between my W and her paretns, specifically her M. I understand this, and I agree to a great extent that the things my W did occured to make her M happy. . . <P><BR>. . . This doesn't address everything though. Yes, my W's leaving me was at the urging of her M, and filing the restraining order was also at the urging of her M. But my W had to sign the restraining order. She had to appear in court, and allow things to continue. She had to make the phone call trying to have me arrested when I called her at her request. Why did she take her wedding rings off? Why did it take almost two months after we began "working on our marriage" for her to put the rings back on? To this day her M does not know about her affair. So why did she sleep with him in the first place? Why did she carry on the emotional/internet affairs after we were back together. Why did she deny everything when I confronted her, only to have even more come to light in the days and weeks following?<P>She tells me that these things are not my fault, that it was all her, and her families' fault. Then why do I still hold so much guilt. Am I really that bad a husband, father, friend, lover that I somehow caused all this? I mean after all, every relationship I have ever been in has ended up with the SO at the time cheating on me. What did I / am I doing wrong?<P>I responded to a post earlier tonight from Lilly regarding the "lessons" we are supposed to learn. I am tired of learning "lessons." I have not done the same thing twice in any relationship, yet I always seem to end up at the same place.<P>Maybe I am just feeling sorry for myself tonight, I don't know. It just gets so "old" asking the same questions, getting the same answers, but never getting "an answer" other than "maybe you are supposed to learn something from all this."<P>I'm sorry. I seem to be on a soap box, and I really don't even know why. Please forgive me.<P>God Bless

Empty Shell-<BR>I responded to you on Lilly's lessons thread but wanted to jump in here too.<P>Perhaps there is no connection with your W and all SO's betraying you. I'm thinking of people who were abused as children and end up marrying abusive spouses. From what I understand, its not something that they necessarily do to get abused by spouse, but somehow this happens anyway. I don't know enough about the subject to hypothesize, I just thought of this when I read your post. I can recall reading many stories of (mostly) women who repeatedly chose mates who abused them. They did not know themselves why this occurred, but it kept occurring.<P>When I think of my own situation where H has done this 3 times, I wonder what is wrong w/me? In my marriage, I have tried but have an unwilling, conflict-avoider as a partner. In other words, nothing EVER gets resolved (and questions don't get answered). Sure I have faults also, but for me, its gets rather tiring to do ALL the marriage repair work. This plays out w/me, often unconsciously.<P>I know I didn't give you much to go on, but just wanted to give you another perspective.<P>Good Luck!

Bringing this to the top so that my W can read it. I Love you hopeful1771.

ES - I have questions too. Lots of them. But, I believe some things will never be answered to my satisfaction. Many times I think I want the same detail as you simply to punish her for what she did. You need to be careful about wanting all the answers right now. <P>Your W seems to be very remorseful for what happened. Don't rub her nose in it. Somethings were done just because they were stupid decisions. She probably doesn't know why she did them either. It may take her a long time to figure all this out. Don't push it. <P>Perhaps when you are both in your 70's sitting on the front porch sipping a cool glass of lemonade, she will tell you why she did some of the things she did. Don't let the mistakes of the past keep you from moving forward toward a more initamate marriage relationship. <P>Stop beating yourself up about being a bad father, husband, or whatever. You both made mistakes. And it loooks like you both are working very hard on your marriage. That should be a tremendous self esteem builder. <P>Take small steps to recovery - you'll get there.<P>SHA

SHA -- Thank you for your response. I really am not trying to rub my W's nose in anything. I have already gotten most of the answers regarding the affairs themselves. The questions which bug me the most now are not directly related to the affairs, even though they occured around the same time frame.<P>I know my W is sorry about what happened, and I think I have pretty much forgiven her. I am still trying to process everything I guess. Unfortunately in order for me to process anything, I need to have the facts surrounding the given issue. I am not just talking about my W's infidelities, I am that way with everything.<P>Thank you again for your response.<P>God Bless

ES, the big secret is that most relationships end when one person finds someone else. It happens in almost all cases. The truth is usually well hidden. The difference is that you found out in each case. The other truth is that women leave men twice as often as men leave women. So that friend of yours that says we just broke up because.... <BR>It was because of infidelity.<P>You're not doing anything wrong as long as you are loving and trusting and then something happens. She's right it is her. <P>Also, MIL might know. I was told mine didn't but she was lying to me to protect her.<P>The way to cope with this is get the start date and the end date and say to yourself " my wife was nuts between these two dates." That way you can concern yourself with today.

ES-<BR>I do so understand the "processing" aspect. I am very analytical, perhaps to a fault. People need details to varying degrees, I happen to need a lot. I need to put the pieces together to make some sense of things. This is particularly difficult in my marriage because H avoids conflict and just says whatever...Mixed Messages King. This probably makes me more "hypersensitive" to the missing pieces. <P>I also understand how the questions don't all relate to the affair specifically. I eventually had to separate the "affair-specific" questions/issues (lies, hours, accountability, sex, etc) from the marital issues magnified during and by the affair. Somewhat like breaking it down into manageable pieces in my brain. Thank God for this board as I have come to realize that these affair-specific things are somewhat typical and digested differently. Its those remaining issues/behaviors that are still unresolved. The affair questions are yet another reference point to discuss long-term issues. So I guess it all gets mixed up together...and makes the need for answers that much more intense.<P>I don't have any easy answers for you as I am still struggling w/same thing. Just know that someone else does understand. <BR>

I know that while filing the restraining order was at my mom's insistance. She was the one who told me what to write. I felt that if I didn't sign the order it would not be pleasing my mom because she was standing right there with my daughter when I filling out the restraining order. My step father works for the police department where they live; in the juvinelle department no less. I felt that if I didn't sign the order it would piss her off because I wasn't doing what she thought was best for me (by filing the order) I figured that she would get up from where she was sitting, take my daughter and leave me there with no way to get anywhere (except to walk) and have my daughter with her. I also felt that if I didn't show up in court she would pick up my daughter from daycare and disappear with her. Everytime I would show up at my mom's house or while I was staying at her house she would look at my hand and see my rings. She would never say anything about it but I could tell that by the way she was looking at my hand she was still very upset that I was still wearing my rings. She took her rings off very soon after my dad moved out and before their divorce was final. She felt that I shouldn't be wearing them. I could tell by the looks she was giving me. I took them off because the looks were killing me. I wasn't pleasing my mom. The main reason I didn't put them back on was because they needed to be sized bigger to fit. I know that my H offered to have them sized to fit my hand but I was still scared that if I put them back on my mom would give me the looks again. It took me quite some time to tell my parents that my H and I had gotten back together. Yes my mom is very controlling and she doesn't have to say anything to you to make you feel like crap for living your own life the best you can.<P>I'm not sure either whether or not my mom knows about the affair. She will when I send her the letter I wrote. The reason why I did I sleep with OM in the first place? I'm not sure I will be able to give an acceptable complete answer but I will try. The main reason is because I was curious. The OM was black and I was told by friends in the past that black men are better lovers and that they are bigger (under the pants) than white men. I wanted to find out if it was try or not. I had no feelings for the OM before or after it happened. I felt like a tramp after it happened because OM walked around the office after it happened with his nose in the air thinking he was just great because he had gotten another man's wife. He made me feel like I was worthless. I felt even worse when I realized that my mom was going to really "dislike" me after I had the affair because I had just had sex with a black man and heaven forbid I ever do that. That is the reason why I never told her.<P>I still to this day never full realize why I had the internet affairs. I never thought that my H would never want me to write the things I wrote in the internet affairs to him. I thought he would think of me as a slut or a whore for wanting to do different things. Strange and unusal things.<P>Denying the affairs: I guess I was still in denial when my H found out about them. I didn't want to admit to myself that I was just like all of his previous relationships. He has only been with three other women. I make number four. I didn't want to admit to myself that I was like the other three. I really felt like a slut, an awful person for doing something so hurtful. Bad, bad girl slap my hand hard.<P>My H is not a bad H, father, friend, lover. He is the best thing that has ever happened to me. I just can't believe I almost lost the best thing that ever happened to me.<P>I don't know if this is helpful in any way. I hope this is the start to me opening up and will be a better person for my H. Maybe I will become the person he wants me too.

Enlightened -- You just described the way my mind is working perfectly.<P>God Bless

Just wanted to make sure my H got to read my response because I want him to know that I'm trying to open up more.

Hopeful not only is your mother controlling you, but she also never let you GROW UP! "CURIOUS"..People are curious about a lot of things, but an ADULT does do the things that you have done while married. Your husband should have known about your sexual likes before you were married. You could have turned him on to things that you liked slowly and then I am sure he would have joined in the fun (within reason, as long as it is something that doesn't turn his stomach). What I am trying to say, is that YES your mother sounds very controlling, but you are putting the all the blame on how she treats/ or raised you. Now it is time to GROW UP!

Okay so maybe everything is my fault. I let my mom control my life, I had the affair, I left my H, I signed the restraing order and showed up in court, not been able to open up to my H. I guess I may never be able to fix myself for myself and my family or maybe I'm just feeling sorry for myself. I just hate this feeling of not being able to fix anything in my life. I think my H and daughter deserve better than someone who can't change fast enough to make life better.

Hopeful -<P>Maybe I shouldn't be replying to you after yesterday, but ........<P>The way I see it you have two choices:<P>You can keep listening to others tell you what you do wrong, what you should do and how you should live your life.<P>OR<P>You can look back on your life, realize where you've made incorrect decisions, why you made them and what you can do to learn how to make correct decisions in the future. <P>You can wallow in the blame and feel sorry for yourself and question everything you want to do by seeking approval from others <P>OR <P>You can realize that it took twenty-something years to become the person you are and now it's time to search yourself and nurture the good and overcome the things you think are bad.<P>So, Hopeful, what do you want for YOU??<P>We know you want to be best wife, mom, daughter, sister, person, etc....but what do YOU want for yourself!!!!<BR> <BR>Hugs,<P>Sheba

Sheba --- I know what I want to do. But why do I feel that I have to change overnight? When I read this post from my H I felt that I wasn't changing fast enough to make him happy. That's what I want to do, make him happy and if that means opening up then that's what I have to do. My H is a wonderful person and I love him very much.

Hopeful - <P>You have given him some answers here to try to address some of his questions.<P>He has not responded yet so give some time and see if your answers have take you a baby step closer in the direction of fixing that you want.<P>Don't feel so rushed in all of this, it will only push you into making bad decisions again because of outside pressure......that was one of the problems before - wasn't it? You're not on the clock, you know!!!!!<P>You did not answer my question - I asked what you want for YOURSELF from this life? Examples - Is there a particular kind of career you want to do, or is there something you enjoy like writing, etc. that you want to pursue. Things like that!!!!!!! <P>I ask because it is important to deal with yourself as a whole - not piece by piece as if the rest doesn't matter.<P>Hugs,<P>Sheba

I like to write but I'm not very good at it. I'm not very detailed when I write as my H has seen before in me. I'd love togo back to school to be able to get another degree and get better grades than I did the first time. The only problem is money and I think I should allow my H to get his bachelor's degree before I get another degree. I think I would love to do something like design houses like an archeticht or an interior designer maybe. Or I'd like to run my own restaurant. I guess something to do with using my imagination

hopeful, bottom line is that you can change!!!!! You need counseling alone to do that, there are things that have happend in your life that need to be addressed. You still have time to understand why you made these choices and how to change the future. It is very obvious to anyone who posts here on a regular basis that you and your husband love each other immensly. I found out so much about myself, things from my past that I never thought I would tell anyone, but when I did it was like letting it all go. You need professional help to get you through these issues. You both are on the right track. As far as questions go, I believe I am queen at that. I've ask my H so many why questions, but it never makes me feel better or worse. I just still do not understand because I was not in his shoes. God is blessing your relationship right now, hang in there.

gladimadeit --- I have just one question. I know that it's going to take time for me to realize and understand why I did what I did, but why do I sometimes feel that my H wants all the answers yesterday? Why do I feel that he will never be able to forgive me fully until he gets ALL of the answers? I feel I will never be able to gain all of his trust again until all of his questions are answered and he has processed all the information.

Hopeful, I really hope you will get counseling once this is all said and done. I think you have no idea just who you are. You were X's daughter, and you now think of yourself as ES's wife, Z's mother, So-and-so's siter, etc. <P>Who is Hopeful1771?<P>You and your mom seem to have that same screwy symbiotic thing that I've had with mine. As bad as mine is now, I've gotten a lot better. I no longer act out adaptive child/critical parent with her...now I just do it with everyone else -- spouse, friends, in the workplace. Not necessarily an improvement.<P>I had planned to be a social worker until I woke up one morning senior year and realized that wasn't want I wanted to do, it was what SHE wanted me to do. <P>One thing about that symbiotic thing...you spend your life either trying to be who she wants to be, or rebelling against her. Sometimes both. I suspect with you it's a bit of both.<P>It's not going to be easy, because right now you don't really know who you are. But you have a supportive spouse (a major plus), and better communication skills than you had before. Use that as a springboard.<P>Stop in here for a snack every now and then along the way.

hopeful, I know it will seem like an eternity until that happens, I think my H is wondering the same thing. The problem is I don't understand. OK, I agree we had problems before the affair, but why did he turn to someone else instead of at least giving me the opportunity for counceling. No, he just threw in the towel, no second chance. How could he be intimate with another person? Just that thought still makes me sick. I'm taking care of our children while he is screwing someone else. I don't understand after 14yrs of marriage he could just throw it away that easy, did we not mean more to him than that? I think what happens here is the betrayed blame themselves, we think we caused it. I can only promise you that the more honest you are with your answers (and if you don't know an answer tell him that) the less he will ask. But it has been over a year for us and there are still times I ask questions. See I think that when they were together they must have just laughed at how stupid I was. It is a hard thing to accept. But your love will get you through, just always be honest!