It's been awhile since I've posted. Now the dust has mostly settled (hopefully). After several false starts and 2 more d-days, my h has finally been honest with OW and told her that he would never leave me b/c his life with me is too important. They have a 6 1/2 month old daughter who we have had contact with since day one, recently it had been worked out that we would have her for 3 overnights and 2 extra days when my h is home from work (he's a pilot). It's in the process of being finalized by judge on 9.6.05. Yeah!! As it turns out we have OC for 5 nights, but my concern is how to interact with OW now. I have always been standoffish - this is H mess and he can deal with the crazy woman. She has stolen pics from my home of me and her D!!! Needless to say no longer welcome in home. But we are going to have contact with her and I will have to see her occasionally. I asked H if we are going to have to have separate b-day party for D or if we could just do it all together - he made comment that even if OW could get over her problems with H, he never sees her as being able to accept me!!! This is woman who thinks I somehow screwed up her life!! And keeps telling H he needs to "change his choice". Anyhow just wanting some advice as to how to deal with OW. My animosity is mostly gone, mostly just indifferent but for D's sake don't want to have an "I hate you" relationship with OW even though I think she refuses to think of me as D's stepmother. Any advice would be helpful. Thank you.

I know you have heard this time and time again. But with time, things will change. If you and H are in a POJA with the contact issues then only time will heal the wounds that this leaves behind. Our OC is almost one and its been a year of ups and downs. But in my eyes, worth it. (Most will not agree w/ me) I was a big advicate on the C issue. It was what was right in my M. Our M has gotten to the point to where the trust is coming back and where I can actually look at the OW and have decent conversations w/her. My situation is different than most. Even though all of us here are faced w/the OC /OW issue, the people in the situation makes it different. I think for all of the people to work together in co-parenting these children have to be over the anger and pain of it all and be willing to do what is best for these children. Your H as the father has a right to have a relationship w/his child. Without all the drama. To do this it HAS to be legal and you HAVE to cover all your bases. Get a plan that is best for the child and workable for the adults.
If your OW is not over her pain then it will be hard. You will have to give her the space to do this. Your H HAS to stay adimit about his family and wanting the relationship w/ his child, cut a dry. His conversations w/her should be about the child and that only. As far as you ? I can tell you that I treat our OW w/ the respect that she is the OC mother. And she treats me w/ the respect that H is my H and I am Baby A's step mom and care for him like my own. Its taken a year of working though emotions from ALL sides and we still have days where someone either H / I or OW still allow others veiw on our situation and get emotional over things. But its a working process and keep that in mind.
When there is a conflict w/ the co-parenting, I try to stay out of it. That doesn't mean that my H doesn't go over EVERY detail w/ me, just I let him handle it! UNLESS they get to the point to where they can't and then I am like a mediator of such.
I do what I do for Baby A and for him only. At times I think she should feel grateful that she can drop off the child and not worry and know that when I do meet her for p/u and such that he is all to ready to come to me and give me the hugs and kisses, but in a mother since of things I know how I would feel some kind of hurt and she has her right to hurt. Even though I never created her hurt, she does have a right to realize the consequences of her actions have caused for her life.
I wish you the best of luck and my suggestions to you would be pray for the strenght to do what is right in your heart. And continue to work and change your POJA w/H and stay strong. You are a team for your M and not against her. You are a team for the relationship w/ the child, and not out to hurt anyone. Do everything for the right reasons and pick your battles!!!
Sunny D

Thank you Sunny!! That is all that I've been trying to get settled between all parties. But it is difficult with H and OW still have feelings for each other and OW won't have anything to do with me, but has no problems calling me demanding to know where my H is!! Hopefully all that will end, H was home this last week and had very little contact with OW except to handle p/u with child. Although he left for work today and that is when I worry (how much contact will he have with her?) I'm confident that the R is over between them, she has told H that she doesn't want to be between us and no longer will seek R with H unless he leaves me, and H is committed to M, so now it's just working out the rest. I'm a forgiving person and understand people make mistakes and just want a workable situation for all parties and all children. We have a 4yo boy who adores OC, and the OW has 2 other children. The problem is OW and how she views me - absolutely refuses to see me as the role of 'step-mother', and would probably like to think that I do not exist. Everything will be legalized soon and as much pain as this experience has caused, we have a beautiful little girl as an addition to our family and my son has a sister to enjoy and protect. I only want to be a positive influence in OC's life but fear the OW will make that difficult in her opinion of me.

Its a daily process and it is coming around for us. I know at one time me and the OW had a conversation about how she felt sorry for me, blah blah blah. And I would NEVER have my hands on her child. Which was short lived because the papers where already dotted and signed, so in two days we had him. Its different now. I don't interfere in the raising of the OC, put I do give input to H, and OW when she ask. But its taken alot of healing on all ends. Me and H where seperated and then reconciled so its kind of a different story but the OC was conceived 1 mth after we reconciled. Its not like I didn't know she exsisted. But take today for today. If its bad, tomorrow COULD be different. But unless it is legal, more games are played and your H has to step up to the plate and let HER knows where he stands as far as their relationship being OVER. And has to be totally 100% honest w/ you on EVERY detail.
Will she play games, more than likely yes, but you just get though them. Don't play your own games. (not saying that you are) And if/when a time comes that the games are too many, then take your action. Yes it cost but the cost of peace of mind (like I've said plenty of times) is priceless.
A couple of things that helps in the co-parenting:
KEEP A JOUNAL on everything
Get a little book to put in the OC diaper bag, this is for when OC ate, went to the bath room, any meds given and such. I even put notes as far as had a good day, or was teething, cranky kind of stuff. That cuts down on the calls for information and leads to other conversations. To me its a way for you to start communicating w/ her. At first, let your H write notes and then both or you ever is doing the care taking. KWIM. Alot of people use this visitation p/u and delv and call backs all night, this helps in cutting some of it out.
Keep in mind, that is her child and as a mom, she does have a right to call and check up (to an extent) on the child. You are a mother would you just give up your child and not worry?? I would question her motherhood if she didn't.
If you can stop a relate to her on the level that you are BOTH mothers, and mom's are a different breed, I think it will help you deal too.
Exchange pictures. I never give her picture w/ me in it, just for the fact if I was her, kind of thing. But I have given pictures w/ H and Both D's in there. We are both doing a scrap book, so we exchange pictures, now almost weekly.
Realize that all are responsible for each others actions and reactions. Just because I am the way I am, I TRY and think before I speak and don't talk about things that will start a conversation that ends up in a fight. KWIM.
Others may see me a door mat or whatever for allowing this child in my life, I don't. I am one of the better people that try and make MY life and the lives of others better. I refuse to live in conflict/drama. And if I stop and think about the ways I can contribute, then so be it.
Sunny D

One more thing, the thing on not allowing her in your home?? When we started vistitations OW wanted to come to our house and see the baby's room and such (its on a really old thread) But it went well and it also proved to me if I got these two people in the same room, I could tell if something is between them and such. Keeping the friends close and enemies closer kind of thing. But when our one big fall out phone call, I also told her she wasn't welcome in my home, blah blah. But to be realistic, this is her child. I wouldn't leave any child of mine, if I had to drop them at the driveway. LOL. So it didn't take both of us long to "get over it" KWIM. Just another page to my novel!

Don't forget to smile, don't hold back the tears, when they need to come. I can't tell you how many times I've set in Baby A's room and just cried. Because he was here, at first, now its because he's not here at that time.

COmmunicate w/ your H on your feelings and getting though them. TRY not to jump to conclusions. (which is very hard at times) And keep building your M and your family!
SUnny D

Why does it have to work at all? Pick up the child, take good care of oc, love oc and return her. Have a notebook for any oc issues. Why do you have to be friendly to this woman at all? She has stolen things from your house and sounds unstable. Why should you put forth a single amount of effort?

I understand you don't want to have an "I hate you" attitude, but that doesn't mean you have to become a doormat. If the ow is unstable, let her be. When your oc is with you, don't even mention ow.

I would NOT let this monster anywhere near or in my home if I were you. She is seriously deranged and can't be trusted.

Can you have oc dropped off/picked up at a church? Daycare?

I wouldn't give this woman a 2nd thought. Your relationship is with the oc. The ow is nothing. Her being a psycho means you need to keep her away. Who cares if she is upset, or mad or whatever. Take care of oc and quite giving this woman a 2nd thought. She isn't worth the time.

Thank you SunnyD for your thoughts on the matter. Given me some ideas. I have recently started a journal but mostly for our own sake as to when we have the child and when mom calls or comes over. She is not the most honest person and has on many occassion embellished things. OW constantly tries to use OC against H. OW is from another country and always threatens to leave - she is here on politcal asylum and will be having to leave soon anyhow unless gets re-married so it is very likely this could happen.

Thank you also LynnG for your thoughts. I also have the same feelings at times. When my H told me she took pictures from my home my first thought was to call the police but I am tired of the drama and of her episodes. I can almost predict when she is going to lose it. She is not stable and my therapist seems to think she may have borderline personality disorder. I don't want to think about OW but she is the mother to a child that will be spending a good amount of time in my home and as I am indifferent to OW these days it is kind of how I wish to stay but sometimes when I see her and she's nice to me and want to yell at her about all the things she says to H about me. But you are right there is no need give her a 2nd thought, unfortunately though she is there and will be for the life of the child. I hardly ever have contact with her as H usually p/u and I stay in car or she comes to home and p/u but I ignore her.

Thank you all for your thoughts and opinions on the matter, it helps to know there are people going through the same mess as I. I just hope that eventually the drama will end and things will level out. I have a feeling they are on their way though (finally!)

They DON'T disappear when the OC walks though the door! Hello, if you have and proceed w/ C, there are things that you do have to consider. Its human nature to "Hate" a person who so much caused this situation. WHY can't / shouldn't she HATE her H, he did this too. Right??
Lynn you helped me a great deal when I came here. You of anyone has taught me to make it legal, do what me and my H wanted to to make my M stronger. And that is what we did. We are all about our M. Do I kiss the OW [censored]? NO I do not. Do I understand that the OC belongs to HER and not to me, YES I do. To me that is what is important. Did we push the issue of C to hurt her??? NO, we did it for US!

A, if my H had NOT done a 360 turn around in our relationship, I would have left ALONG time ago. And that is why we have done the C. I M him because he loved children and was a good father. If he had walked off and left this child that HE helped create, I would have thought less of him. Like I told you in the beginning, others wont agree w/ me. But IF you want to go on with your life, and learn to live, love, and laugh, and let the other "crap" run off your back. K
Sunny D

As far as her moving to another counry? This should be covered in your legal doc. If she is stealing from you, then don't trust her, well don't trust her anyway, but you know what I mean. But there will be a time where she will come back to your house, I can grant you this.

I know as long as I am doing right, what does it matter anyway? People are going to react and act different in different situations. Your days are not all going to be easy or be nice, but YOU and YOU alone can make your life work for the best.


Sunny D

Sunnydale, I respect what you are doing and I don't think you are a doormat <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> I have a slightly different situation myself as H and I had been speararted 2 months when A started and 4 months when OC conceived. EVENTUALLY, I decided to try and work on my M with H, MOSTLY because of HIS willingness to do "whatever". I never considered that he wouldn't want to be a part of this child's life, but I was not going to do it no matter what. From the very beginning, I met w/OW and although I'm sure she bites her toungue as much as I do, she seems like a stable person and good mother. We have never had a harsh word with eachother (plenty of harsh thoughts on my part at times <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />, but I think we both respect eachother's situation and try to put ourselves in the other's shoes. My xOW is appreciative of my involvement and has said as much, even intially not wanting H to be w/OC without me. She has said she "like me and thinks I'm good people". I can't really say the same for her, but I try to understand that people are human and make mistakes and try to make the best of "what is". I think the biggest part of a successful C situation is with the H. He has to set boundaries with xOW and make BS feel and know that she and her family still come first. When OC is here, H pretty much lets me hold the reigns of how things will go. It's still emotional so you never know if I'm going to feel like "here you change this diaper, she's not MY responsibilty" or if I'm going to feel like he is paying all the attention to OC and not to our family OR "You never did that with our babies" i.e. change diapers <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> . So basically, it works for all of us. Usually dd and I croon over OC and take care of her and then when something else needs my attention (another child) or I just want to do something else, go shopping, work out, nap, pick my nose...I hand OC over to H and he takes it from there, no questions asked. He does care for her, but sometimes he just lets us care for her because he knows it makes me feel "involved" and not like an "outsider" and helps us develop a bond. I'm sure that things will change as OC grows older, but I think we have a good foundation going.

In my case I think H has helped make this C possible by letting xOW know what's what early on. After he told her he ws going to try and work things out with me, she asked for one more roll in the hay, no strings attatched (little late for that since she was already PG), H said "NO". I'm sure there was more to the conversation, but that was the part that mattered to me. Later during the PG, xOW got upset because H wouldn't help pay for her birthing class, maternity wear, etc., like he did for me and he not so kindly reminded her that she was NOT his wife. There have been more than a few moments of tension between them, but for her and I we put it on the backburner. I don't think trying to make the best of a crappy situation is being a doormat. Yes, if she was more psycho with me it woul be harder, but it doesn't mean I have to be psycho back. I can continue to do what's best for my family and "not participate".

Of course having said all of that, I WISH she would move away, far far away. I just hate having to explain this to people (which is mostly a thought right now, since only a select few don't know yet) and I think the BEST for OC would be for xOW to find an unmarried man to play "Daddy" to this child and she can come visit us in the summer and on holidays. I think having a stable intact family and still getting to have a relationship with your father and know he loves you would be better. JMHO of course, but H knows I feel this way and has said that if I decide to move home to our state of origin that he will be right there beside me and will know that he is the cause of his pain of not getting to be "Daddy" to this little girl, not me.

I think if H is being straight up about everything and not trying be "nice" to xOW so he doesn't "hurt" her and BS can ignore the drama, it might go away. If not, I'm not at all above packing up and moving on. The drama was my worst fear in all this. And yes, it's still emotional when I think my H is being "too nice" to xOW, but it is all done in front of me, so there are no secrets and by allowing xOw in my home I have a first hand view of how they interact and so far it has only made me feel more secure that there is no interest left by either. But even if xOW is interested in H still, by showing her (not shoving it in her face), that you and H are a team, it may help her "move on" and realize her terrible mistake.

Sorry I rambled, I still visit now and then and still have my ups and downs, but overall I think this situation has worked out better than was conceivable and I hope in time others can find peace somewhere in all this feel whole again.

OMGoodness, I guess I'm not the only doormat?? LOL, just kidding. It goes first to H like you said he has to be HONEST with ALL parties. And if your not I think that is where alot of the games and drama takes place. And then you have to take a stand for your family and go from there. People give what they get and I will not let anyones tactics or games bring me to their levels. I am a strong, independant, and smart person w/o disreguarding anyone elses feelings as I go though my life.
Its a process and hopefull most get there in their life time, to be able to get past everything and move the crap on. Alot don't. I feel sorry for those who can't. Thats why there are IC and MC's. I don't feel anyone should have to sort out all the feelings involved by themselves, I've tried, and failed. I was bad about holding back my feelings and now I'm not. Sometimes I may spout them toooo much. But there are too few and far between that have C and I for one liked hearing the possitives and the YES, with a lot of prayer and ALOT of hard work, and ALOT of communication from all parties, these children can all have family members that love and want to see them grow up knowing them. Thanks CDJ. I don't ask for anyone to agree w/ what I am doing, just be the to support me. I don't try and change anyones mind on c and ALWAYS tell them to get w/ the H first and work on your M and then go from there. Our families have a right to be apart of these childrens lives. I for one intend on seeing that happen.
Sunny D

Oh Sunny, I do not think you are a doormat in anyway shape or form. I think you are probably one of the greatest role models on this message board. You have walked through fire, came out intact, strong and thriving.

I also think the way you have handled contact has been great. Obviosly the "do it legal" is a mantra that needs to be drilled over and over again, as it is the only way for any of us (wives, husbands, other women, etc.) to ever find any peace.

In this particular instance, I think it would be a bad move to even try at formulating a relationship with this ow. Her "theft" has proven that she is not in a right state of mind, is not ready, willing or even mentally able to think beyond herself. If Amberlina (love that name) were to try to hard right now to correct the relationships here, she would be giving away to much of herself, and thus the "doormat" (hate that word) scenario.

Right now Amberlina needs to focus on her, her marriage, children (and that includes oc). Leave the games unplayed, leave the rancour clearly and soundly on one side. At some point ow will realize her actions are getting nowhere and she too will settle down and get on with her life. THEN is the time they can actualy discuss issues, and hopefully get to the same place you are.

I worry about BW's and them taking on and handling far more then they need to. They have hurt enough!

But YOU a DOORMAT? Never. I think you should/could write a book on how to handle contact and make it work.

I'm not an advicate for kissing the OW butt. I just have my heart with the kids in these situation. Too much Dr. Phil and the "Get over it" sceme of things. KWIM. I am a firm beleiver on the work on the Me first. Find out what is important in your relationship and WHY's. And then work on the M. I was lucky I found about the pg on the day she did so 8 months was a good time to work on our M and come to a logical POJA on how, who, what way we would handle things. Didn't EVEN know I could actually do this until I laid eyes on Baby A. Made no promises until then either. You just don't know how, what you will feel intil then. I'm glad we started from the birth. I held him the first day he was here and still am.
And if my H hadn't commited 100% to our family and our M, and worked on the honesty issues and trust, then I couldn't have done everything we've done. If the OW hadn't treated me with the same respect as I treat her, then it wouldn't have worked either. Prayed the whole 8 months that somehow we could all take Dr. Phils advise and get over the hate, jealousy, hurt and dispise of it all and make this relationship work for the kids. Which knock on wood, its getting there. Ignore the games and the drama of it all, that is right, life is way too short. But if you use the LEGAL means to what your family wants and has a legal right to, then the games will be cut in 1/2. But in the C of all of it, you do give and you do take w/ any co-parenting arrangment. Its never black and white, there are gray's to it. And that is what it is to us now. Its not the A or the OC/OW issues, its how do we make the co-parenting of this child work. And I know this has helped my D's tramendisly, they have learned so much from all of this. And the lack of drama, hate, and hurting, is all worth letting the "small stuff" be ignored.
Sunny D

amberlina,

I haven't had time to read through the whole thread. My advice is this: decide by mutual agreement w/your H what your boundaries are w/XOW and stand by them/follow through with them consistantly.

Beyond that, give XOW the courtesy that she doesn't deserve. I don't mean kiss butt, but Golden Rule. Don't stoop to whatever level she's at. Ignore her negativity best you can, stick to the "rules" you and DH agree to (good to run those by a counselor too!), and act nice to every extent you can. Then 1)you can live with yourself; 2) your H will love you for it; 3)you won't have any reason to look bad to OC or anyone; 4)MAYBE XOW will "come around" over time, (but don't hold your breath).

Read about dealing w/angry ex-spouses (SORT OF applies re: visitation).

Also, keep a visitation log or journal is highly recommended by many people dealing w/angry mom or younger OC!

"Jenny"
1y of successful visitation didn't start until OC was 6