Hi, My ww wants to seperate now. of course she wanted me to leave.NOT I told her she was going if she wanted a seperation today.Here is some of the rediculous babble she spewed and my responses.

WW: Do you understand why I want a seperation

BH: Yes, you want to continue your affair with om in secrecy.

WW: no i am worried about what you are capable of. You sent an email to his employer.I don't want to hurt you anymore.

BH: Yes I did. You want to leave to protect om from me and continue your affair.

WW: not neccesarily.My decision to stay married or not is mine and no one elses.

BH: Yes it is. My decision whether to be here when you decide will also be mine.

WW:I don't want you to hate me.

BH:I don't hate you, you do enough of that to yourself.

WW: I am still 50/50 about what I want to do.

BH: I know 100% what I want to do, but I am prepared to handle doing what I don't want to do.

Anyway this conversation ended with me putting the ball in her court. she wants to seperate but have me take responsibility for her choice to bail by me leaving. she has nowhere to go where her affair will be supported except om house and she really doesn't want to live with him.I finally have her on my turf. she has been going back and forth and keeping me strung out for 7 weeks now. She claims to want to make her own decisions. Now is her chance. she will fall and come crawling back soon. If not I am really ok at this point. The rediculous babble is getting old anyway.

you are GOOD at reverse babble!

I always think of what to say after its over.

i wish i could think of reverse babble on the spot.

here's what i got.....

Wow. It is amazing. Such babble and SPIN!

She never addresses the issue concerning OM. She never even acknowledges the affair. She pretends as if it does NOT exist.

And I especially like this part...she is soooo passive aggressive here:
WW: no i am worried about what you are capable of. You sent an email to his employer.I don't want to hurt you anymore.

What she's really saying here is that "YOU'VE BLOWN THE DARN COVER AT OM JOB...IT'S MAKING HIM LOOK BAD AND IT'S TOSSING A MONKEYWRENCH ON OUR LOVE AFFAIR. I feel guilty for what I've done to you, BUT IT'S NOT ENOUGH TO KEEP ME FROM DEVOURING MORE CAKE DUDE!"

dang, kdh, I am extremely impressed! Half the battle is being in control of your emotions, and it sounds like you did very well in this exchange! Good for you for controlling your temper and making sure she understands she has to be the one to move.

Thanks,
I also told her that I am able to look everyone in the eye and say "I did everything I could to save our marriage and I will have no regrets" Of course she defensively replied that she would have none either ,but I know that's not the truth. She never even gave reconcilliation a chance and she knows it. I just think with her lack of life experience (compared to mine anyway) she needs to find out the hard way that she is making a mistake. I can plan A forever and it won't make a difference either way, because she is not ready to accept any kindness or respect from me. The guilt she feels is so strong she knows she doesn't deserve me right now. I am moving on to plan B now. My plan A was not perfect but as I said before she is not ready and it's pointless right now.
she has moved out to a friends place 2 blocks away.She does not want to stay at her family's place because of shame (that she of course hides with false ego).She has created a situation for herself where she is going to have to get off the fence soon. Nobody is going to give her an indefinete place to live while she carries on like this. I have already made plans to protect myself (Legal advice, Housing ect..)If she wants out. honestly I don't like the person she has become(materialistic,selfish,self centered,loose) and I am having second thoughts about wanting to work things out myself.
I know seperation is risky but it just seems neccesary at this point. With me making plans to move on the affair will be much less rewarding for her. No more cake eating.
anyway, I will keep everyone posted.

Wow... kdh... I'm impressed too. Good work.

dewt (who couldn't reverse babble if his life depended on it)

Don't be too impressed. This was the first time I was able to control my anger. I usually start these babble conversations calmly and the get frustrated (not necessarily blowing up) at the end of them.It's hard not to get frustrated when your trying to be respectful to someone that does not deserve your respect or you for that matter.
Any spouse that puts up with this crap can do better with someone else in my opinion.All of us BS desrve better my friend. I know I have done nothing to deserve any of this.I have known my wife for 13 years and this person is someone different.The person she is now deserves nothing short of pain and discomfort(emotional of course) until she gets real with herself and everyone else.As I said she needs to find out the hard way. In the meantime I will take care of myself and plan for my future with or without her.

Wow KDH, good work. I know this is hard and watch her squirm makes the BS in you frustrated and angry. That's a stage most of us go through.

U did fine. Quite proud of you, more than you realize. It isn't as hard as it is, just scares people until they try it.

Keep up the good work. You have shown that sure footed stance pays off.

take care,
L.

Yeah,had another babble conversation with her just now. she wants to seperate with no plan at all, just impulse. She calims that she hasn't contacted om for two weeks but I am still behaving suspiciously. she says she feels bad because she makes me feel this way. "Then stop doing it".I informed her that her behaviors are what trigger my anger and suspicious behavior. Like when she stood up the family for dinner and showed up 2.5 hours late. she says she did that because she doesn't want to face the family. I informed her that those type of behaviors make it worse.I also brought up how she gave relationship advice to ohter family mebers. "You need to communicate." "Don't throw away 9 years for a fling." "Did you not beleive your own words. Now you can't walk the walk." "But that's someone elses relationship." "So your advice doesn't apply to your own? Why do you think they sre all so upset with you right now".Nothing , silence, couldn't even think of a babble statement.
My ww can't deal with any type of reality at all. she has spent her whole life burying her head in the sand.
I asked her again "can you honestly say that you will have no regrets if you bail out now." Yes. Right. "So you can honestly tell yourself that you did everything you could in two weeks to save our marriage"."Thats not what I am saying." "What are tyou saying?" "I don't know".

This nonsense went on for hours. I told her that seperation was a bad idea (recommended by a bad counselor). She insisted on staying at her girlfriends house down the street for the night.Again bury the head in the sand and run. She keeps saying that it's hard for her to fake it. she also said several times that her feelings can't come back in two weeks. Oh but deciding to seperate can happen after two weeks???
I understand her need to be on her own. She has never really been on her own. I am just afraid that she is never coming back once she dissapears into the bar single scene.
I also resent her for deciding after 7 years that this is what she wants. I turned 35 and was going through some life changes myself. She is about to turn 30. she wants to get out while she is still young I guess. But how damn selfish is that?? Could you have told me sooner?? Now I am feeling screwed and she wants to bail all of a sudden for a fling??
I don't know maybe I am better off without this woman and all the babble.

kdh,

Babble to hard to hear. You know it is babble and that is helpful, for you. Right now she is dumb enough to believe it or pretend to believe it. She has to. The WS will not survive without babble. Remember she is fighting to preserve the WS not your W.

Take the high road. You will find there w/b more distance between you and the WS as a result but your W once she escapes will look for you on the high road.

take care,
L.

kdh
Your reverse babble listed here was of teh very highest order. I especially love this:

BH: I know 100% what I want to do, but I am prepared to handle doing what I don't want to do.


My version of that was "I want peace, but am prepared for war".

You seem to have a great attitude. My Squid was every bit as foggy and entitled as your WW is a few months ago KDH. Right now she is curled up in my bed upstairs, and loves me very much.

Persist. All blessings

Hi,
My ww wife wants to mve out now. She says it's too hard to work on things in my presence. i have gotten angry a few times but only after she did something disrespectful (which is a constant).She has agreed to work on things but can't handle being with me and seeing what pain she has caused. I keep informing her that running from the pain won't help.It's like dealing with a child. since you obviously were able to make progress with your situation, can you give me advice on what to do now?? I am just stuck. the reverse babble takes care of the anger part but nothing else. she still wants to leave. Do I just let her go? I told her that I thought making a life altering decision based on feelings and impulse would be disasterous. She doesn't have the maturity to deal and it getting frustrating. All the details are on me while she just runs.

She wants to go away so she can cake eat. Thats the only reason a WS ever 'needs space'.

You cannot choose to 'let her go' or make her stay. Plan A'ing is far easier and more effective if WS is at home, but can still be done remotely when followed by a tightly managed plan B.

What would you do if you weren't afraid ?

kdh,

How r u doing? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

I am impressed by your ability to think clearly and reverse babble back! You GO man! I think bob pure said it best in his interpretation that you are indeed wanting peace, but prepared for war. That in itself, I think, is the turning point for us BS.

I can agree with you when you say that you aren't sure if you want this person your WW has become back. I've been thinking the same thing myself about my WH. I look at him and wonder, do I even know this person anymore and if I were to, would I even like him - let alone love him?

Anyway, you are doing a fabulous job of taking care of yourself. Keep up the good work. Sounds like no matter what, you will not only survive, you will thrive. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Kd-hang in there and stay in your home. I'm in the same boat,WW has been fence sitting for 6 months, but I couldn't take it anymore. She said she needed space so my daughter(16) packed her clothes and we left them at the OM place, where she was just talking. I still will plan A it for a while, but the babble is unbelievable. At least my daughter and I feel a descision has been made. It may backfire, but at least I'm sleeping and able to function better.

I am doing Better. We worked on some things in counseling. The counselor finally called my wife on her alternate reality thinking. In her reality I should be ok with her cake eating behavior( she is in widthdrawl from om and wants to runaway to be with him).She tried to manipulate the counselor into agreeing with a seperation solely for her quest to cake eat. The counselor reccommended that she stay at home.My w has only managed to make it for one or two week stretches before she gives in to withdrawl. she runs off to stay with a friend and sets up a date with om. the problem for her is that everyone now is not letting her run to them anymore.She is running out of alibies and places to run. she has burned all of her bridges. so now her only alternative is to look for her own apartment. she is overwhelmed by that thought but her attraction to the bar hoping lifestyle may win her over enough to go.
I am fully prepared for her running off now. I have alternate plans and may have to accept that my marriage is ending.I will be ok either way Orchid. I am going to plan A again minus all the mistakes i made before. I will definetely focus more on fixing me this time.

Update on my situation. I took a shot in the dark two weeks ago and emailed om job(a law firm). I had a strong suspicion that he was married but wasn't telling my ww. Well the email really worked him over good. His employer was not happy and his ceo, human resources and supervisor really read him the riot act. But wait it gets better: I know one of his co-workers (he finally stopped being a coward and came to my aid) and he informed me that om is married (seperated). The pressure is getting to him and his job performance is going down the tubes. Welcome to my world scumbag. I feel so much better now. I kept wondering what my ww saw in this guy and new he was a scumbag( but I kept thinking there must be something better about him than me). Her friend (who also knows om co-worker)informed ww he was married last night. I didn't know until a few hours ago.Man karma is so good when it's on your side.I wonder if this will finally wake the ww up. I'll keep you all posted.

Good job, kdh! You are putting great pressure on the affair. I would track down the W and call her ASAP. You may be surprised to find out he is keeping her on the string too.