I have a question for you guys. I have suspicion only of spouse having an affair not active now as they are no longer stationed together. No proof lots of circumstanial. I am the type of person who deals much better with the truth and I feel we cannot heal our marriage without it. I have prayed that I would know the truth one way or the other and I am still waiting on the answer.

Others have told me that maybe God is working on my spouse to tell me that truth. When questioned my spouse consistently says he can't remember something. For example he can't remember if he kissed this girl. How can someone possibly not remember <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Any way I asked him if he was willing to do hypnosis and he agreed. Is hypnosis ok according to the Bible, I have heard conflicting information?

I know its not the best way to go I'm just tired of the constant battle within myself.

Dont know anything about hypnosis. Others may, though.

Not sure your full story, but assume you and spouse are together. I dont know if you are in counseling, but that may help your spouse "remember." Personally, unless there is something wrong with his brain or he was an alcoholic, then I know that he remembers. You see, not remembering keeps you off his back...hoping it will just go away.

Maybe a couple of sessions with Steve Harley might help. At least help the two of you get a plan, which is what you need.

Scripturally, I am not sure about hypnosis, as I have not studied anything about that. I am interested in what the truth on this is, though.

In His arms.

My head doesn't buy the "I don't remember either" my heart tells me I'm a bad wife for not believing.

Short story he was stationed overseas for a couple years spent lots of time with another military member. He told me about times they spent together but not all. Gifts were exchanged, meals bought, he set up some things in her apartment for her, she wrote on his plaque about being liberty buddies. I did speak with the chaplain that used to be stationed with him, he knew which female I was talking about, called them fric and frac and said that he had a blimp come acrossed his screen when he walked in on them one time but said he never saw anything inappropriate and he did spend time with the two of them off ship. I talked to him with my husbands permission while my husband was deployed and the chaplain stationed here.

My spouse says that if he had made three different choices this would never have been an issue and that why would he tell me so much if he was involved with her.

All during that time I heard "Be quiet Do nothing" So thats what I did and I worked on myself and the kids. I have seen changes in my spouse and maybe I should just let this go. However I don't believe we can truly get past this till I know the truth. My spouse says I want my truth not his truth. He says that I won't accept his answer of I can't remember or maybe I did. I have prayed about all of this for a very long time and I guess I am just getting very impatient about it. I know God can do anything I just don't think my spouse will.

Would you do hypnosis?

No we are not in counseling he just got back from another deployment. He knows I am won't let some things go even if he keeps giving me the same answers. We haven't done counseling cause he has been gone so long. I have thought about it and have been looking at some Christian counselors. He would not counsel with SH and he would be extremely mad if he saw me posting here.

I know its not customary to confront the OW but do you know her? If so would you consider confronting her?

When OW confronted me via IM - she clearly stated WH was afraid if we ever talked because OW was not going to lie for him and tell me everything! No matter how good friends they are.

Its something to consider. What is your WH so afraid of, if your here it is to help your marriage.

Im sure the Vets here can give better advice but have you started on a Plan?

Should I
Thank you for responding.

They are no longer stationed together. I did confront her in email and her statements were exactly like my spouses, that they were friends and mentor thats it. I also told my spouse I needed to know things so I can have a sense of peace. She said almost that exact statement but used different words and he said they were no longer in contact.

Do you have any proof that they are in contact?

I know my gut feeling was always right, WH told me their was nothing going on with OW other than their cool friends, but that wasnt so.

Your H needs to understand, you do need to know. Is he willing to do the hypnosis?

Hang in there, this website and the vets will help you. Im still working on my own M, but hanging in there.

I can't prove they are or are not in contact. I cannot access his email account at work.

Yes he is willing to do the hypnosis which makes me wonder if he is telling the truth.

I'm just not sure that hypnosis is the right thing to do.

I wish you the best should I.

bjs,

I've never heard or read anything pertaining to hypnosis in the Bible. So scripturally, I'm not sure. Sorry I couldn't have been more help on that, but as far as hypnosis in general is concerned, I do know some things about it.

I know if something is too painful or traumatic events happen or something like that, some people can block out memories to a particular event & honestly can't remember them. I tend to raise my eyebrows at your H's statements of not remembering though. Maybe it's just my BS radar going off, I don't know. It might be worth a shot. If he is willing to do it, I don't see the harm. It might give you some closure into the subject.

I know there are a lot of things that my H said & did, how he treated me during his A that he honestly didn't remember. When I reminded him of the things he said &/or did, he was quite shocked that he could behave so badly b/c normally, that's not the type of person he is. So, A's can turn people completely topsy-turvy & behave like someone they can't even recognize.

Let me just add that this could be a way that God intends for you to finally find out the truth since you can't access his e-mail at work. God has a way of using situations for good. I say, if he is willing, then do it for both your sakes. JMHO.

Just my opinion, but NO, I would not do hypnosis.

My question to you would be why aren't you looking to God for the answers to your questions?

You seem to building up a whole fantasized scenario of adultery in your mind with what seems to be no "hard evidence." Why?

StandingTogether,
Thank you for your response. I want to be the kind of wife God calls me to be and I have tried to be that throughout this whole thing. I know I have fallen short many times.

Foreverhers, Wow my spouse would like you. Some of the things I outlined about his behavior are just a small portion of the things he did while he was overseas with this girl. No I don't have concrete proof about any of this, just what he has said, what the chaplain has said, what this girl has said and what one other girl stationed with them have said. They are many more examples I can give you in regards to his behavior that was very out of character for him. He had never prior to this girl or after this girl bought presents for another female since we have been together. He became very protective of her when I asked him to not spend so much time with her. He broke promises to be with her. He didn't call the day my father had open heart surgery cause he was with her. He bought me the same piece of clothing that she had color and all. I can go on and on. I have caught him in several lies about all of this. I just want to know the truth and then we can deal with it and move forward. The military is becoming a very small group and my fear is that I will move past this and then we will meet up with someone who will know them and then I will find out. The chaplain who was stationed with them even told me he has more truths to tell me. I have looked to God for answers in this. I have prayed and others have prayed. What I have had several people tell me is that maybe God is working on my husband to come tell me. I have every faith that God can do anything he has many times in my life. I however do not have faith in people. I have made it very safe for my spouse to tell me as suggested by people on this site. I do not want a divorce I just want to know what really happened. There is so much more to this even an email from her when I told her I had found out from someone else that there may have been something between the two of them. She didn't even ask who she just repeated almost word for word what my spouse had said and they had been stationed apart for six months. He said there was no contact between them not even phone contact which I didn't bring up. I don't know what to do anymore.

This is not the first time I have had suspicions by his behavior with other women. For two years I had phone calls to the house from a female asking for him and hanging up. This only occured when he was deployed never when he was home. He denies knowing who it was.

bjs, I don't believe this for one minute.

If it were true, then I'd say that you have enough "evidence" that there WAS an Emotional Affair (or so it would seem to me from your list of his behaviors), yet you will not be "happy" until you get a confession of a Physical Affair. Generally speaking, most women consider an Emotional Affair to be just as bad as, or worse than, a Physical Affair. If you are like that, then the EA has already given you the "harder task" to forgive, but you have not forgiven, dealt with it, and moved forward. No, you are still looking backward and not "letting go."

Is your husband a Christian? If so, then he SHOULD confess any sins against God to God first, and against you second. If that were to happen, then YOU must stand ready to forgive fully no matter what you are "feeling." Are you ready for that?

But I don't think you ARE ready for that because you have NOT forgiven him for his Emotional Affair. If the "ante" were upped to include a Physical Affair, I think you would find yourself doing a whole lot more "dwelling" than forgiving. Maybe I'm wrong, since I don't know you very well. But either you are in an "equally yoked" or an "unequally yoked" marriage and either way YOU (as an admitted believer) are bound to obey God's commands no matter what you are feeling.

Perhaps the "answer" you really want is for him to retire from the Navy and be a full-time husband and father.

It may seem that I am "taking your husband's side," but that is not true. Were he posting here, I would have some pointed things to say to him also. But he's not and you are the one seeking to deal with your thoughts and suspicions.

bjs, you ARE already a strong woman. You've "proved that" by being essentially a "single parent" for most of your children's lives. You "sacrificed" your husband to the Country, but you fear that he may have chosen to sacrifice your marriage to another woman. It's certainly possible, but do you intend to stay married even if it turned out he had a "girl in every port?" Perhaps, but that's why I don't think you meant then we can deal with it and move forward. I think you think YOU meant YOU'LL "feel better" if you get your suspicions confirmed. You might temporarily, but it's the long term I'm concerned about for you.

Now, having said all that, it DOES make sense to find out if your suspicions are true or just imaginings. But, you need to ask yourself ahead of time how you will react IF it is true? In essence, you need to assume that it HAS been proven and then ask yourself, given how your husband is reacting, how will YOU react? What will YOU do? Will you forgive and rebuild, or will you pick at the wound forever, never letting it heal?

Ask yourself these, and other related questions, before you "push" for confirmation. Add to that how YOU appear to your husband if he HAS not had more than a possibly "too close" friendship with Frac (or was she Fric?). How much "worrying of the bone" damage is being done to your marriage, despite your claim to want to stay married.

You seem to believe that your husband IS capable of infidelity. Since you DON'T trust him, then get the "evidence" from the chaplain, from whoever you can, and "confront" your husband with proof, not speculation. Because IF he is involved with another woman you can BET that lying to you is another natural part of an affair. But if he is NOT involved with another woman, then you are rapidly setting an "atmosphere" of distrust in your marriage that is deadly to most marriages.

God bless.

ForeverHers,
You have given me some things to think about and some of your statements I have heard from my spouse.

He has stated it would be easier for me to deal with if he had an affair. He does not believe he had an EA. He has said that kissing between friends of the opposite sex whether married or not is ok. I didn't know this till after 13 years of being married to him and he said it had never occured until the time he was overseas.

My spouse has also said that had he made three different choices none of this would be an issue, one if the girl was a he and two if he honored his promise, and if he had stopped hanging with her when I asked him too.

Yes my spouse is also a Christian. However both our walks were not where they should have been prior to this. I know God used the two years he was overseas to bring me to a closer walk with God. I used to believe my spouse could do everything for me I now know that is and was not true. It has just been in the last year or so that my spouse is walking closer to God and I see the changes in my spouse.

Years ago I would have loved for my spouse to be a family man. However very early in his career I learned that his career came first on his list and I came after that. Since that time I have tried to support him in every aspect of his career even supporting him in the decision to go overseas for the two years which he did not have to do. But it was a great career move. I will not stand in his career path. However because of this it has caused me to be the leader of our family and home in every aspect instead of my spouse. Over the last year my spouse has now learned how important it is for him to be the leader in our home even while deployed. My spouse has told me to just tell him and he will retire from the military, I will never ask him to do that it has to be his choice between him and God.

I did not have suspicions about my spouse until he gave me pause of them. I do not believe he has had someone in every port I believe he has to be emotionally attatched first. I believe that the person calling is the same person he first gave me pause with. I requested we go talk to our pastor however my spouse chose not to. I prayed about this for a long time and let it go. I trusted him enough to encourage him to take the two year overseas. It wasn't until the things happened there that I hit the mistrust wall. I truly do not know if he had a PA with her, my heart yells one thing my head the other.

I do want to move on from this. I don't know how to do that if everything is not out on the table. How can he say maybe he kissed her and maybe he didn't? I want to be able to give myself fully back to him but how do I do that? My biggest fear in all of this is that I am being the bad wife by questioning all of this and not letting it go that I may be causing more damage with my questions and wonderings than anything he could have done. Will it hurt if he tells me he had a PA yes, but at least I would know that he was committed to us. I know with God's help we can get through this.

I have tried every avenue I could think of to find out information. However the military is usually a tight family and the ole saying what goes on out to sea stays out to sea. The chaplain says he never saw anything specific however he did say that when he walked in on them that he had his radar go off.

You have given me much to think about. I truly feel like a bad wife by not accepting what he has told me. His actions just don't match his words. I don't know what to do.

ForeverHers,
I want to thank you again for giving me the hard questions and thoughts to think about which I have done all day.

I look forward to more of your thought provoking answers.

Okay, bjs, let's think about this for a minute. A lot of people, especially men, DON'T think anything IS an affair unless it involves sexual intercourse. They "limit" the definition of an affair to just "sex." Anything short of sex is NOT an affair...maybe not entirely "Right," but NOT an (gasp!) A.F.F.A.I.R.!!!

But for those of us lucky enough to have found Marriage Builders and/or the books by Dr. Harley KNOW that an affair can be either/or/both Emotional as well as Physical. So it IS quite possible for one spouse to have a "broader" definition of "affair" than the other spouse...at least until their is some time spent in counseling, reading, or discussing infidelity and the meaning of the VOWS we take when we marry.

So what does that leave us with right now? From what you posted, your husband has ADMITTED to kissing a female friend (I know, he only said that kissing an opposite sex friend would not be an "affair," but I seriously doubt he would have attempted the "explanation" if he had not partaken of the choice he is trying to justify). But whether HE thinks it's an affair or not, YOU do. THAT is what should be of paramount importance to your husband....fidelity to the wedding vows and to you in ALL circumstances..."forsaking ALL others and keeping myself only unto you." As much as he took an oath to "Preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States" as an Officer, he took an oath to do the same for you as his WIFE. NO equivocation, no justifying fraternization with the "enemy." Simply "duty, honor, country" and as the Marines would put it...Semper Fidelis!

The CHOICE one makes in marrying is to reserve all sexual aspects of a relationship to one's spouse exclusively. There are NO "ya, but's..." No "relative morality. It's a VOW, a Promise, it put's one's intergrity and honor the line and says "No one else but you....forever."

Time to get your husband a copy of the book Torn Asunder by Dave Carder and let him read about the subject because YOU need him to have some "basic training" in this subject and some insight into what you are struggling with.
He needs to read it FOR YOU, if for no other reason.



Sure sounds like an admission, to you, that he KNOWS what he "did" was wrong, even if he refuses to use the term "affair." CHOICES. He knows that he "chose poorly" on at least 3 occasions.

Well, here's the "good news" for him. Most "mistakes" are not fatal, but can be used to learn and to not repeat the same mistake. Why do you think that the military spends so much time in "training?" To make the mistakes BEFORE it gets serious and fighting begins and to learn and CHANGE as needed. If your husband is to change his "ideas" about "affairs" and his "role" as your husband, it would seem logical that he needs some "basic training" in what affairs are and how to "affair proof" a marriage. An area of "weakness," of "poor choices," has been identified by him. Is he going to learn, or is he going to bury his head in the sand and hope things will get better without any effort on his part? Remember, he "sees himself" as a warrior and is not much into the "touchy feely" things like "emotions." But to NOT look at the role of emotions is tantamount to "underestimating the enemy."



bjs, becoming complacent in our walk with the Lord is very common. It was the same for my wife and I. It is the thing that often makes it possible for sin to be the "choice" when we forget that it is God who we need to be obeying and seeking to please with our lives FIRST. When we "walk in our own power," God will let us be prideful and stiff-necked and not "force" us to follow Him in humble obedience. But God also will not abandon us. When the "train wreck of our making" happens, God will be there for us as we begin to realize just how far we have gotten from Him and He will help us to "find out way back." That "way back" is not without pain and consequences, but God will use even the painful experiences in our lives to work for good in our future, even if it's just teaching us the importance of always walking WITH Him and not on our own.



bjs - Okay, let's get one thing straight, you are NOT being a "bad wife" because you are wanting to get "straight answers." I think the "problem" you have right now is that you are both operating with a different "dictionary." You both have differing definitions of "affair" and are approaching the subject from different directions.

Make NO mistake about it, your husband KNOWS it is wrong for a married man to kiss a woman who is not his wife, and I'm talking about a "kiss on the lips with meaning," not a light "buss" on the cheek. Your husband is also in love with you and is afraid of what could happen IF his actions were "defined" as an affair.

Now, you could cause more damage, but that's because you are trying to sink the ship with a "cruise missle" (an admission of sexual intercourse) when what you need is to talk about the "types of affairs" and to get to a common definition of what an "affair" is. Once you have agreement on the reality of an Emotional Affair, not just a Physical Affair, as being, by definition, an "affair," then you can "get the admission" you are looking for. Also, don't forget that the Military does NOT like affairs, especially between members of the military, and that could also be part of the reason your husband is reluctant to admit to "anything."



bjs, "actions" are what give "Truth" to the words. Semper Fidelis.

Now, until you two are together, "what you can do" is somewhat limited. When does he come home for shore duty? Since you are both Christians, I would suggest JOINT counseling with a trained Christian counselor, but only when you can both be there for "the duration."

Until then, use things like Torn Asunder to begin the process of getting on the same page as far as "definiton of terms" goes.

For you, I would suggest going back to his statements of the "3 choices" and work on getting him to admit that he "cared for her" and "kissed her." When he can admit to that, you will know that he is beginning to understand that the term "affair" encompasses more than just sexual intercourse.

Alternatively, if you don't want to beat the "affair horse," you could start a study with him of God's roles for husbands and wives as revealed in Scripture.

God bless.

Hi bjs. I really don't have anything to add to what FH said. His post was awesome. It really summed up pretty much what I was going to say. Really think about it & I encourage you to try the things FH has suggested.

((((bjs))))

StandingTogether, Thank you for your encouragement and support you have helped me several times.

ForeverHers:
Thank you very much for helping. You have helped me look at all of this differently.

You believe even though my husband says he can't remember kissing her and that he believes its ok to do that he has admitted it?

I will purchase the book for him I'm just not sure how to present it to him. I think if I suggest that its for me he might do it however I think he will also be very offended by the suggestion. I will pray and ask God for the words to use in presenting this to him.

My husband has said he will not make the mistakes again and that he will close himself off to others. I have told him that he puts out an I'm available message to others as example at a military function one of the other military woman put her feet on his lap while I was sitting next to him. He did nothing about it and said he didn't even notice she did this. No I didn't say anything at the time as we had been discussing his need to take actions and I felt he needed to do something not me. He later told me he would have liked it if I had done something.

I have thought about counseling, finding a Christian counselor has been difficult and I have trouble trusting and sharing. I will pray and ask God for guidance in this.

We have been to a marriage conference which my husband enjoyed very much and discussed our roles. He wants to go to another one as soon as we can which has surprised me how excited he is to go. I am trying to make arrangements for this.

I wish I could get him to discuss his feeling about me with you however he would be very angry if he ever found out the personal information I was putting out on a website.

Thank you again, I'm thinking I need to give him the book, discuss if he wants but otherwise leave the "affair horse" alone. I need to pray and ask God to help me leave it alone and to leave it in God's hands again. I am one that deals so much better with truth, I think the truth is what you have said we see this differently.

Thank you and God Bless you and your family.