I want opinions on this situation.

I had to work this weekend. I took 2 women to lunch on Saturday. Froz found out and was extremely unhappy about it.

what do you think?

i think a little more detail will help---cause right now with what you have told here----very little----i wanna say......

ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!!!!!! WHAT THE HE// WHERE YOU THINKING.....

but i will wait for a little more info on it before i actually say that.....

If it was your mom and grandmom, then ok. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Just teasing.

Did froz sign off on it ahead of time? Were you alone with them ot were there other people? Could someone else have done it?

Low

see---we need details.........

plus...i believe you allready know the answer...just dont want to accept it yet...

"Froz found out"....

Should have been: "Froz and I POJA'd my taking 2 female business colleagues to lunch".

Or even: "I had lunch with 2 female business colleagues, and brought Froz along so she could feel comfortable."

Patriot, this is a huge lovebuster - and says to your wife that your "stuff" is more important than her feeling secure and safe.

I agree.

Patriot, you haven’t updated us on the specifics yet, but I would say if the circumstances was of such a nature that you couldn’t first POJA with your W on it or invite her along, you could at least PHONE her and INFORM her about it BEFORE you went out to lunch with these woman…

And if it wasn’t possible at the time to phone her or inform her, you could at least IMMEDIATELY tell her about this at the FIRST possible opportunity (phone, e-mail, in person or whatever) afterwards...

I think if you've told your W BEFORE she could found out in another way, she would be much less upset… I think by your behavior (of not telling her) she has got the idea that you wanted to hide this from her... And now she is obviously asking herself "why" you didn't POJA with her or tell her and "what" is it you've tried to hide.

Patriot, I'm sure you didn't had any bad intentions. I get the idea that because of work related reasons or circumstances you were compelled to take these woman to lunch and that you didn't tell your W about it because you KNOW beforehand that she wouldn't feel comfortable with it and as a result you didn't want to upset her; you wanted to avoid conflict etc. but this was NOT a good idea to not tell her Patriot...

So, please learn from this incident: Always first POJA on something, but if for one or other reason you can’t (because of certain circumstances or a lack of time at the time), then at least INFORM your W about your comings and goings as far as other woman is concerned… Don't keep silent about things because you want to avoid conflict etc. As you can see, this just cause MORE conflict and unhappiness.

Suzet

Why? You are already under the microscope. Why would you even consider this an option if it was not a mandatory business lunch?


I can imagine she was (considering the state of your M). Why did she have to 'find out' rather than hear it from you?


I think it was probably a very irresponsible and insensitive action, regardless of innocence. Feigning ignorance isn't going to fly.

Explanation:

I am in the military and I work in a reserve center. Our section has reservists that come in one weekend a month. This past weekend was 'drill' weekend. Ok, so the entire company was there. Reservists get lunch provided, typically on contract with a civilian restaurant. Us full-timers have to buy ours.

I came around a corner at work and one of the other E-7s in the section(a male) asked if I was going to lunch. I said yes. He said great, your driving. I mildly protested at first because my car was cluttered inside. He said no one else really had a large enough car for a group of people.

It was time for the entire unit to go to lunch and it is not uncommon for people to carpool over to lunch.

So, I loaded myself, one male and two females in my car to go to lunch. When we got there, the entire unit was arriving in whatever cars they happened to be in. I parked, we went in and got plates and ate(buffet joint)

All personnel in my car are people in my section that I work with and other than the male(he and I are same rank) were subordinate to me.

Lunch was in a public place where ALL the people in the unit go due to the contract.

Froz found out from me when I told her about my day and talked about lunch and then she stated she was upset and why did I do that. I wondered what she was talking about at first. As she explained it, I saw her points, but no one wants to see mine.

Maybe I just don't have any. Maybe I just don't get it.

and at this rate, I wonder if I will... Everything has to be a fight.

Patriot...not everything has to be a fight...but it DOES have to be thought out beforehand.

I can see where it looks like no issue, but from the BS's side of things, EVERYTHING the WS does for a while is scrutinized for motive, honesty, etc...

What everyone is trying to tell you is that you need to think about how Froz will take something BEFORE you do it...and if there is ANY reason that she might have some kind of worry or concern (and if it involves anyone of the opposite sex, assume that it does) then you need to either POJA it beforehand, or take the action yourself if you can't discuss it with her to avoid the problem.

You need to change your way of thinking from what it was prior to the affair. Now there are MUCH stronger boundaries that need to be enforced by YOU to re-build your marriage.

Make sense?

Patriot,

Did Froz say what she would have liked for you to have done differently (in a perfect world)?

Reason, I asked is because based on what you're saying - I don't see why anyone would have a problem with it.

Did you explain it to her the way you did here?

The way I see it is that you were caught by surprise, and it wasn't just 2 women either. There was another man present. Neither of the women were former OWs were they?

Now Patriot, people have been asking for yours..... OK, under normal circumstances I, as a former Guardman, can attest to how common and totally innocent that is. I drove a million people to chow on drill weekends. Heck, at times I may have just went with 1 female in the car and didn't give it a second thought. We all raced to the place, ate, and raced back. Today, I'd still say it's innocent enough.

OK that being said, what didn't get factored in the risk assessment was your wife's feelings. I think the thing you have to consider is that your relationship isn't "under normal circumstances" anymore. There needs to be the assurance of safety for both of you to continue to progress. Even if at times it is going to the extreme until the relationship trust is up at normal levels.

And actually in this circumstance it doesn't even matter who the BS/WS is. If the WS took people out, such as that, then the obvious is obvious. If the BS took people out, such as that, then the WS could hold resentments because they could feel that the BS was doing an action that if they were to do, they'd be hammered....

There's my 2 pennies..... Patriot, I totally believe that your actions were normal and harmless and all that. The only thing I don't fell was factored in was the fragile nature of your relationship......

Froz's feelings are what the issue is here....that's why I wonder what she would have had Patriot do differently. It's a valid question especially since he may be faced with it again at some point in the future by the sound of it.

And it's important for Patriot to know that he's not in a situation that has no win in it for him at all.

He deserves credit for mentioning it to Froz....some FWS's might not have taken the chance. I'm hoping Froz gives him credit for honesty and openness!

Patriot,
I can hear some of what my spouse has said and he is also military. My spouse tells me that I don't understand the relationship between people in the military.

My spouse and I have had this same exact conversation as he has spent one on one time with a female. He has also been out in the size group you suggested and in other mixes. You and froz are in early recovery and I think if I were her I would need for my spouse to stay out of that situation all together until I felt confident in my spouses choices and decisions.

I don't know if I'm saying this right but for now this may be something you avoid until froz is feeling safer and more confident in your choices.

I am a military wife too and know the situations with having to deal with females at the work place. Before the A they would call, ask for help, stop by the house to ask questions and so forth. It never bothered me.

NOW it is different. NOW I am trying to rebuild my trust in my H after he had an A with another soldiers wife. I do not feel comfortable with my H doing anything with another female w/o me outside the work place. Many of us here know that so many A's start out as a friendship. We no longer see things out of rose colored glasses, NOW we know what can happen.

I understand what you did was completely innocent but your wife does not see things the way they "use" to be. Trusting our ws comes little by little, trusting other females is not something I think I will ever be able to do again.

You hadn't made any points...up until this post.

You work and eat lunch in a coed atmosphere. No one can expect you to sit in the corner and never associate or socialize with persons of the opposite sex. That would be unreasonable to expect.

What can be expected is consideration. It's one thing to carpool a couple of females TO lunch and it's another thing to sit down and have lunch with them. The latter could easily be avoided.

Your W is super sensitive to these issues right now and I can understand how you might feel like you are constantly walking on eggshells.

All I can say is think before you act.

The real question, Patriot, is why you are far more concerned with protecting the feelings of your co-workers than you are with protecting your wife's.

You could have said no. You chose not to. You didn't want to look bad to your co-workers or make them feel unwanted. But you saw no reason not to look bad to your wife or to make HER feel unwanted.

The feelings of your co-workers mattered. Your wife's feelings did not.

I'm in exactly the same boat. My WH also refuses to put my needs and feelings over those of his friends and co-workers, and then blames me when his marriage collapses.

It's a choice, Patriot -- a choice to put other people's needs and feelings first instead of putting your wife's needs and feelings first. It's a choice my WH makes every day and a choice YOU made in
this particular instance.

My WH started making this choice some 15 years ago because of all the strokes and attention it gets him from lots of other people. I don't think this will ever change because that's simply who he is -- a huge addict for attention who will sell his own family down the river to get it.

So, what are *you* getting out of making the choice to put other people first?
Mulan

Squid went karate training tonight. She got sweaty and physically close with a mixed congregation of men and women.

And I am completely cool about it.

If Squid wants to cheat, she can and will cheat. As long as Squid is transparent and informative and we POJA this stuff I have no issue with her doing this.

Was it teh fact that you ate with some women that caused Froz the pain or the fact you didn't tell her ?

Perhaps it might be time for me to interject here. If it's not, I'll leave quietly.

Yes, I did tell him what I would have liked for him to do differently. The first thing was, of course, not do it. The second option was to call me beforehand. The third option was to call me at any point during lunch and let me know. The fourth option was to call me at any point after lunch and let me know.

Any one of those options would have made me feel safer than I did at the point when I asked him at the end of the day who he had lunch with.

He did not mention it to me. I asked. Had I not have asked, I would venture to say that that information may have never been volunteered by him.

What he did hurt me. It hurts because he either didn't consider me, or he considered me and it didn't matter. Funny thing is...he doesn't know if he considered me or not. The most I've gotten is "I may have considered that you would be unhappy about it."

Either way, yes he gets credit for honesty. You know how that translates to me? Like this..."Thank you for not hurting me as much as you could have."

Here is a question for all of you...how much more do I need to pay for his mistake? How much more do I need to hurt? How much more before I get to be the one who has earned protection, rather than him? While I'm busy trying to make it "safe" for him to be honest, I'd really like to know when I get to feel safe.

Who cares if it was a PUBLIC place.


Most affairs start out meaningless, correct.


Opposite SEX, this is Red Flag. Is there NO way to avoid these type of lunches?