Just found out that OM died in car accident 5 months ago. FWW wants to visit grave site... ugh. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Any insite on this? I don't think there is anything I could ever do to stop her. Can't watch her 24/7 because we both work. She said she needs closure and that she never stopped thinking or fantasizing of him and that this will be true NC and WD will now start.

Little Bob.....I know there have been some other posters where the OP died. It can be very tough because it's almost like the fantasy never ends. Change the title of your thread to call out others who have been in the same sitch. "OP died...anyone else in similar sitch?"

Y'know Littoe Bob, I have prayed for OMs death, but felt it unwise for the reason starfish cites. He'd be martyred, while every day he breathes is another chance for him to soil Squids memory of him.

Having said that, you got REAL NC now. I think you should go with your W to his grave, and she can sob and lay flowers as long as you can p1ss on it. Fair deal ?

You can't lock her up, so she will go if she wants to but i think its important you explain how hurtful and disrespectful to you it is for her to want to go.

All blessings.

This is a tough one. I have had dreams about my ex-OW dying and what I would do.

What I'm going to offer will be hard...but I think you should let her go this once. Say her goodbyes once and for all. You should go with her.

I know it would be very, very, very hard for my wife, but if the ex-OW died, I'd like to attend her funeral (low-key, of course)

No, I don't harbor any more fantasies about us being lovers anymore. That's long over and I'm focused on my marriage. But despite the circumstances of our involvement, this person had a profound influence on who I am. I don't hate her. I would like to say goodbye...for no one else but me.

I hope I don't have to deal with that anytime soon. I'm hoping that we both pass on without the other's knowledge.

Low

I think this is one of the most selfish statements I've ever read here. What callous cruelty, and what a dismissive attitude towards the pain of a betrayed partner.

A few months after the A ended, OW turned up on my BIL's doorstep. She wanted him to know about the A, and she wanted him to tell her if 'anything happened to H', so that she could attend the funeral.

Frankly, she'd be attending her own. The thought, the very idea that this intrusive, selfish woman would show her unwelcome face at a time of deep grief...because she wanted to...is beyond words. I would have physically ejected her, to a pulp.

LO, that woman has NO, repeat NO place in your life, or the life of your wife. Imagining yourself a good person for honouring the connection is grotesque.

I'm beginning to wonder if your attitude to your wife is actually sadistic.

LO, would you expect that your W would be happy for you to attend OWs funeral ?

If she felt, as I would, that it was an active and deliberate disrespect to her, would you still go ?

What if she went and wanted to spit into OWs grave ? Why would your need for respect or closure take precedence over that ?

I truly think its best nobody goes to any OP funerals.

Hi, LittleBob

Quoting Bob Pure:
=============================
You can't lock her up, so she will go if she wants to but i think its important you explain how hurtful and disrespectful to you it is for her to want to go.
=============================

Solid advice. LB, please confront your wife with Bob's script.

There is nothing to honor in that piece of ground. Your wife and this man had an affair because both were too weak to face their marital problems from the confines of marriage. That means that both illicit partners are suffering from low moral fiber, and the experience they shared was so very common rather than unique.

I believe in telling the truth. I don't believe truth is a 'love buster' unless it is used to intentionally hurt.

Tell her the truth. What she did was wrong, and the man in the ground was not special in any way. Just another man.

God bless,
Gimble

Sorry I hit a nerve with this one, TA

We were firends with this person for many years before the affair.

Today, so long after the A, my wife sometimes wonders how the ex-OW is doing and if she is ok. We both miss the friendship.

I certainly wouldn't expect her to be thrilled, but at this point in my life I would hope she could grant me this last request. She would attend with me as well.

Sorry to have upset you.

Low

If we could not POJA attending, no, I wouldn't go. I fully understand how hard this could be for her.

I know my wife well enough to know that she has more class than your illustration.

Low

Why is it a lack of class for a BS to offer unhypocritical gesture at OWs funeral when it is not aparrently a lack of class for the person OW committed a destructive mortal sin with to attend ?

My point is not to exhort anyone to defile a grave, just that for the FWS to attend is as reasonable or unreasonable as a BS to attend.

i.e. NOT reasonable IMO.

If Squid wanted to attend OMs funeral I would only support that if I could also go and curse his mortal remains.
Best nobody attends IMO. only hurt can come from it all around.

There is so much hurt here, so much pain. Death comes to us all, and death causes us all pain. Is it callous or cruel to express an honest emotion -- one of loss -- for someone you once cared about a great deal? No. Not in any circumstance. In fact, I believe Dr. Harley would call it radical honesty. Is it painful to hear it? Oh yes, absolutely.

The desire expressed by a FWS to visit the grave, or attend the funeral, or whatever, of an ex-OP is, it seems to me, the purely natural human desire to acknowledge an ending that is a great deal more final than any other ending. The way that a couple chooses to deal with it has to be something they can both be enthusiastic about. I would hope that it would be something that they could both be compassionate about, as well. Spitting on or cursing someone's grave does the dead person not one bit of harm. They're well past our ability to hurt them.

The spitting, the cursing, the stomping, the threats of pulp, are expressions of our own very real hurts. I, too, once (yes, exactly once) wished that the OM would die.

The trouble is that none of it -- not the spitting, not the cursing, not beating someone bloody, nor even death -- will heal me. If anything, it's a choice not to heal. It's a choice to remain in a place where someone else is the source of my internal state, even after they've died!

Rage at someone else leaves me in a completely uncontrolled and hateful place. Though it's understandable to feel such strong emotions, I wrestle every day to bring that energy back to myself, to bring my own emotional state under my own control. I don't always succeed. I just keep trying.

I would go to the gravesite as a couple!!!

That's what I would do...

We too have had this conversation; ow is in the military. I asked him one day while a local funeral was being discussed on the news. He was almost appaled that I asked and said why the he** would I go to her funeral, I don't wish her harm, but my relationship with her almost ended our marriage.

I can't imagine that LO's wife would be ok with this, even if they were best friends growing up. Going to a grave would hurt, going to a funeral would just hurt too much.

Is it callous or cruel to express an honest emotion -- one of loss -- for someone you once cared about a great deal? No. Not in any circumstance. In fact, I believe Dr. Harley would call it radical honesty. Is it painful to hear it? Oh yes, absolutely.

We weren';t talking about expressing feeling sof grief, we were talking about attending the funeral of OP. A very different thing. I held Squid as she wracked with tears and cried for OM during withdrawal. I know what it is to hear hurtful honesty and deal with it calmly.

The desire expressed by a FWS to visit the grave, or attend the funeral, or whatever, of an ex-OP is, it seems to me, the purely natural human desire to acknowledge an ending that is a great deal more final than any other ending. The way that a couple chooses to deal with it has to be something they can both be enthusiastic about. I would hope that it would be something that they could both be compassionate about, as well.

If a coupel chooses to attend enthusiastically, that is great. I pointed out that I , myself would be deeply hurt and offended. If Squid wanted to attend OMs funeral once she knew how disrespectful and hurtful such an act would be to me.


Spitting on or cursing someone's grave does the dead person not one bit of harm. They're well past our ability to hurt them.

Absolutely, any grave is just an upcoming fertile spot for grass to grow, so why should the FWS get more from a visit with godwill towards the memory of the OP than a BS with ill will would ? ?

The spitting, the cursing, the stomping, the threats of pulp, are expressions of our own very real hurts. I, too, once (yes, exactly once) wished that the OM would die.

yes indeed. I remember shocking you a year ago with mine and Aussie's discussion as to ways to smash OMs shins with a sport bat ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

The trouble is that none of it -- not the spitting, not the cursing, not beating someone bloody, nor even death -- will heal me. If anything, it's a choice not to heal. It's a choice to remain in a place where someone else is the source of my internal state, even after they've died!

An interesting viewpoint. Beating OM bloody may not heal me, but it would make me feel a whole lot better. We are different people I guess.

Gestures are important to me. Maybe its a British blue collar bloke thing.

Rage at someone else leaves me in a completely uncontrolled and hateful place.

Again an interesting view. Righteous and controlled rage at someone else makes me feel alive, vital, potent. Most deliberate strong emotion does that to me. Passionate love, wholhearhed laughter. I believe anger and rage are underestimated emotions. A lot of good stuff got done cause of controlled rage.

Again we can disagree on that one.

Though it's understandable to feel such strong emotions, I wrestle every day to bring that energy back to myself, to bring my own emotional state under my own control. I don't always succeed. I just keep trying.

At school, jj, say a bully kept smacking you on the butt day after day. Do you "wrestle every day to bring that energy back to yourself, to bring your own emotional state under your own control" or do you turn and slap that bully on the nose in righteous indignation ?

I guess I'm 70% a reactor and 30% a self-controller. And I'm reasonably happy with that.

I have thought about this myself. The OM that I was involved with is in the Marines and there is always a possibility that he could die in combat. I never really thought of what I would do or say to my H if I found out something like that happened. At least now I have time to think about it, so thanks for bringing it up!

D-day for me was Undo calling me from the hospital telling me that the doctors didn’t know if OM was going to live or die.

WHAT?!?!? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

But, what I did do was rush to the hospital to be by her side, regardless of who was in the ICU room. My first job was to comfort my wife in any way that I could, even if it meant pain for me. Part of me wanted him to die (I could have pulled the plug… damn) while at the same time another part of me did not wish that. I thought if he died then I would never know if she really wanted me or him, so I wanted him to live so I would know for sure. When he woke from his coma I told her to visit him so that she could have her version of closure and to know that he was fine. NC began after she left the hospital.

Now he is fine and I fantasize of crossing paths with OM and putting him in the ground, but that will remain a fantasy and not become a nightmare.

Why attend a funeral? For most people, to pay respects to the dead, and to support the surviving spouse and family.

An OP cannot possibly imagine that their attendance supports the surviving spouse and family. Their very existence is an insult to those grieving people - an intruder, an enemy, a thief. How could a healthy, compassionate human look at the bereaved and not want to curl up with shame at the insult done?

So presumably the OP would attend in order to pay respects to their former lover, to acknowledge the importance of that person in their life. But what exactly is being respected when respects are paid? Respects for those golden moments of rolling together in a motel bed, whispering your love for each other? Respect for the 'honesty' that required such utter dishonesty towards the innocent victims? Respect for the closeness that was achieved only out of rejection of the honest spouse? Respect for the feeling of being loved? Respect for the fantasy?

Or is it shame? Shame at the lies told in the pursuit of sex and affection? Shame at the bad-mouthing of the spouses? Shame at the selfishness? Shame at the self-deception? Shame at the lies told to self about the OP, in order to make the A seem honourable?

If a WS feels a need to attend the funeral of their lover, is it really a last-gasp attempt to run away from their own shame?

This was my question too.

Support for the grieving family is probably the premiere answer ... and any former affair-partner of the deceased has NO support to offer the grieving family members, therefore, the intent is probably selfish, IMHO.

I've actually given this question quite a lot of thought. I realise that (if I'm still alive) when the OM dies it is going to have some sort of effect on me. It would, even if he'd never been the OM - just as someone from my (teenage) past. Who knows though, it could be a passing "gosh, he's died", it could make me sad - but that would be in the context of what I said above - part of the long distant past, not because of more recent events.

I would NEVER attend the funeral, out of respect for my H, out of respect for OM's family. I don't think there could ever possibly be a "low key" way to do this. The very presence of an ex-whatever would become the focus of the whole event, for everyone concerned.

Jen

well said!