Many of you have read my H's posts (mws1230) and have a general idea of where he is at emotionally. Some of you have probably been there yourself. Now here is my question.

Our two year anniversary is coming up in three weeks. I personally don't want to completely ignore the day, but I am not quite what I should do or if I should do anything. What are you thoughts?

Cinny
For our anniversary last year, it was 2 weeks after NC, 2 months after d-day.

But I was not fling for divorce and Squid had not yet rejected my efforts at recovery so my situation was different than yours. Squid was withdrawing but over teh initial symptoms. We were both hopeful but fearful I think.

No need to ignore it. Try telling your H that you would like to celebrate still being married as it was the best choice you made in your life so far amidst a number of terrible choices , regardless of the path he chooses ( divorce or another recovery attempt) and ask to spend a civil meal together.

At least then he will know how you feel about the anniversary. He may not want to attend, so do not feel rejected if he does not accept Cinny.

Cinny...ahhh...consequences. About all you can do is to mention the anniversary to your husband and see if he'd like to spend a little time with you on that day. Perhaps you could make a special dinner or go on a "date." But if you do get together, NO talk about the affair initiated by you. IF he brings up something, your response is ONLY abject apology and remorse, NO "ya but's," no justifications, no "clarifications" even if he is waaay off base on some "detail." You have to understand that from his perspective he sees the date as the anniversary of the day he made the "biggest mistake of his life." Never in a million years would he have made that choice of marriage IF he knew the depths of pain and anguish that were to be the result. A "girlfriend" he could "dump" and "move on" from easily, but not so with a chosen "life partner" who was supposed to be his God-given "completer," not "destroyer."

But, here's the hard part for you. Recovery, all of it with respect to the marriage not ending in divorce, is up to the Betrayed Spouse. It's part of WHY I would very much like to talk with your husband, one on one, without any comments or posts from you. Right now HIS needs are paramount with respect to whether or not he will remain married to you. He is looking at another 50 or more potential years with someone who right now he sees as a liar and totally untrustworthy and unworthy of his love, even though he SAYS that he loves you. That's not said to be cruel or disrespectful, but is based in the knowledge of exactly what sort of thoughts are running through his head as a Betrayed Spouse because I have "been there, thought that, done that."

The hardest part for most WS's to understand, especially if they are repentant and want to "save their marriage," is that they already chose to end the marriage when they made the choice for an affair. In essence, it's like killing someone and then trying to resurrect the life because you finally "came to your senses." As with resurrection of the body, resurrection of the marriage NEEDS God's intervention or all that will happen is a "Frankensteinian" sort of attempt at "reanimation." It is God who can take what is irreparably broken and fashion a flawless new vessel that is better than what was first there and not cobble together a mish-mash of parts that never quite add up to a complete "whole."

God bless.

P.S. I am really curious if your husband has read "What Do You Do When Your Marriage Goes Sour?" Yet another reason why I really hope he will converse with us.

Forever...have you tried e-mailing him?

No I have not emailed him. I don't think I even have his email address, but even if I did it's not my place to "butt" into his situation. I will "stand ready" to assist and counsel him according to my experience and my understanding of Scripture, but HE has to be the one to seek assistance.

If he is reading here, then he KNOWS that I am willing to talk to him, but HE has to take the fist step. I know that is probably hard for you to hear or understand, but Alyson, ALL of the choices regarding marriage and/or divorce are in his hands. He has the biblical "right" to divorce, but having the "right" does NOT mean that it is the best choice, nor should it be the first choice. The "right" exists for several reasons, but one of them is because of the "hardness of men's hearts" when the wound is so deep and all consuming. It IS, in my humble opinion, the closest that we humans will ever come to understanding what God has felt about Man's betrayal and continual choices of adultery against Him. The depth and breath of the pain is virtually indescribable, and your husband has written of this so I know he understands. BUT we are to be "imitators" of Christ...and that includes FORGIVENESS and RESTORATION. It is NOT an easy road. Divorce IS one of the consequences that may result from adultery even if the "sinner" is forgiven the sin, simply because an individual might find it the "lesser of two evils" to endure the pain of divorce instead of the pain and difficult task of recovery. Recovery TAKES much self-sacrifice...to the point where it feels as if the BS is like Christ in the Garden of Gethsemene...sweating drops of blood and NOT wanting to go through with the crucfixition...but surrendering to the Father's will no matter what the "feelings" are.

A "mentor," or "mentors" of sorts is what your husband needs. The "qualifications" of such mentors should be that they are mature Christians (not new to the Faith) and have "passed through" the fire of marital unfaithfulness and are able to comfort him with the same comfort that they themselves received from God in their journey through the refining process fire of forgiveness, restoration, sanctification.


"Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them together in perfect unity.

Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly s you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God. And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him. Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord. Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them." (Col 3:12-19, NIV emphasis added)


Alyson, this "act of love," this forgiveness and reconciliation and rebuilding of a shattered marriage really "brings home" the meaning of Agape Love, of loving sacrificially. Christ "warned us" about using human reason and feelings to "gauge" the degree, frequency, or amount of forgiveness when He answered Peter's inquiry:


Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?" Jesus answered, [color:"red"]"I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times."[/color] (Matt 18:21-22 NIV)


Peter thought he was being "generous" in offering seven times (when the "going rate" in those times was 3 times) but Jesus, in essence, told him "as often as it is necessary" when they come to you and repent of their sin.

Sin HURTS. We forgive because of LOVE, not because it "feels good." Forgiveness is a COMMAND, and all the rest that one has to deal with in the process of dealing with and overcoming the consequences of the "forgiven sin" is handled by God also. God NEVER commands something of us that He does not also provide all the resources to enable us to DO what has been commanded. "I can do everything through him who gives me strength." (Php 3:14 NIV) It is THROUGH Christ and IN Christ that we have access to God's unlimited strength and resources whereby we can DO things that are seemingly impossible in our own limited ability and resources.

BUT....the choice to surrender to God is the choice of each individual. The choice for your husband to discuss the problem with me, or with other Christians, is HIS choice. Similar to God, we "stand at the door" waiting to be invited in, but we will not "force" our way in. God is quite capable of handling any situation without me or anyone else if that is what is needed. But we are like the "rescue workers" sent out to help those stranded and in danger of drowning. He can refuse the help, or he can accept the help provided by God before it is "too late."

My wife once said to me, "I don't deserve you," as we worked our way into recovery. My answer then, and it still is, was; "Yes, you do 'deserve' me because God gave me to you for just this sort of time. And I 'deserve' you because you ARE me as "one flesh" and joined in a covenant with God for eternity. I am Christ's representative in our marriage and God KNEW that you would need me in the future. That's why God put us together and why I won't let man put us asunder." The "KEY" to this path rather than the path to divorce IS dependent upon the Wayward Spouse. ONLY a truly repentant spouse can do "their half" of the equation. ONLY a Former Wayard Spouse can do as Christ COMMANDED...married or unmarried...."Go, and leave your life of sin" as He told the woman who had been in danger of being stoned for being caught in adultery. This is what repentance is all about, turning 180 degrees from a path of sin and walking in the other direction...toward God, not away from God. We leave it behind, in the past, and walk into a future holding onto Christ's hand for guidance and support and leadership and strength and comfort...and all that He provides to those who love Him.

Alyson, just as Satan tempted Christ with things that were true and promised by God, he twisted those truths to appeal to Jesus' "fully human" side....i.e., "God didn't really mean what he said when He said" about putting God FIRST at all times and under all circumstances. As Jesus later explained it..."If you love me, keep my commands."

From one who has been forgiven an "unpayable debt" by God, much is expected. Shall I do less?

God bless.

P.S. Perhaps you could print out this thread and give it to him to read if you think it might help.

Cinny,

I think you should inquire to see if he would like to do something. I would not be surprised if the answer is no, but don't worry.

I do think a simple card to him might be a good thing. NOT too mushy now, you know us guys. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> But, tell him of your heart, your mind, and your goals. In a simple straight forward way. It will be hard for you to do, because it will require that you boil down to the essence of your feelings for him and why you want to spend your life with him.

But, I would not ignore it. He may want to since he has filed so don't jam it down his throat, be sensitive and act with grace. I think you can take a lot of what FH said, and boil it down to simply acting with grace.

Just my opinion but I hope it helps.

God Bless,

JL

Forever,

Your response certainly meant a lot to me, and made a lot of sense. I would like to be able to print it out and give it to him, but until he asks to see me or tells me that I can see him, I am not going to go where I am not welcomed. I did that once, and it had disastrous results. I did, however, e-mail you post to the friend that he is staying with, and he will hopefully share it with my H.

Well, don't look for too many posts from H anytime soon. He came over today. He told me that although he has been keeping up with what is being said, he doesn't have the energy or the will to make any posts. He also said that while everyone is very well meaning, all of the other BS on here had been married for a long time and had kids, so they all had more to lose. With us, it was "only" two years of marriage and no kids, so I guess he feels like he isn't losing much by leaving me.

He is still pretty set on his decision and doesn't seem interested in getting into a discussion about it with anyone who has been in his situation. I know that our situation is not unique, and that there are plenty of people who have come out with stronger marriages, but he doesn't want to hear that.

So Cinny,

What are you going to do? May I make a suggestion, why not come out of this a stronger, a better versed person in relationships? You cannot control him, but you can surely control yourself, and that means you can decide to really learn from this experience.

He may be right in that it will probably take 2 years to recover a 2 year marriage. But, what he doesn't sees that if he spends recoverying a 2 year marriage with 2 years of work, he may end up with a 50+ year marriage that fills his soul.

Your goal is to make sure you are married for 50+ years in a marriage that fills your soul. Who that will be with is not clear right now. But it can happen. It simply requires that you continue to learn and grow, so keep your head up, and keep focusing on your, your reasons for your decisions, and learning new strategies for handling relationships.

I do hope that perhaps one day your H will see the wisdom of trying to save it, but it is his call and in his defense he did try perhaps not as effectively as you wanted or needed but he did try. He has earned the right to make his decision even if many of us including you wish it was not the one he seems to be making right now.

Just some thoughts, but hang in there. There is a long way to go.

God Bless,

JL

I am trying to hang in there, but it is hard. I am shaking right now, literally.

I am continuing to work on myself. I have an appointment tonight with a MB counselor (the daughter ... Stever Harley is apparently only availabe either bright and early in the morning, when I tend to be much less talkative or early in the afternoon when I am surrounded by 9 year-olds and thus unable to talk).

Regardless of where my life takes me (gosh, it was hard to even type that), I want to be the strongest woman of God I can be and better understand who I am and how I affect those around me with my words and my actions. I really want to be the woman for my H, but I know that it is up to him and not me. I will continue to do all that I can, but ultimately it will be his decision. Makes me feel pretty powerless ... and knowing that this is one of the feelings I made my husband feel (among many) ... that makes all of this even harder.

Sorry if all my thoughts here didn't quite flow, but I tend to get that way when I am a little upset.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

I have just been lurking here .... and following along ... but THIS comment is just so .... oh my!

I guess your husband perhaps feels you did not think you were "losing much" when you decided to have your affair!

The reason I am writing this to you is so you may view your comment through a BS's eyes.

Pepper ... when I was having my A, I somehow managed to convince myself that I wasn't losing anything at all. I thought I could just have the best of both worlds until I figured things out. Of course, nothing ever just gets figured out during an A. Things just get increasingly complicated the more time goes on.

What I meant in my comment is that, although we haven't been married for twenty years and although we don't have kids ... we have so much history together that if he does decide to continue with the D, something with inevitably be lost.

Cinny,

What you are seeing and feeling is why so many of us hang around this site. We hate to see the damage done on both sides of this end up in divorce. It is so tragic for you and your H.

Pep's comments to you are valid, and you should take them to heart, but rest assured that all here understand where you are now, that is why we all have been posting to you. Hoping you could avoid what seems to be happening...YET, there is hope that with rest, time, and yes distance your H may change his mind. One never knows.

I am sorry he feels the way he does, but it is his right to feel as he does. I hope that eventually you both will recover from this mess.

God Bless,

JL

Well, I said I didn't have the energy to post anything more, but there are a few things I did have to say.
First, I wanted to thank everyone that has been following these posts and showing so much concern for Alyson (cinnymd) and our situation. Although reading all your many posts at times makes my head spin, the fact that you have taken the time to give such thoughtful and detailed advice and counsel is a testament to your character. Thankyou for guiding and challenging Alyson, and for your desire to do the same for me. I don't want anyone here to think that I am rejecting your offer because I simply don't want to hear what you have to say. I have been following with great interest all your posts in the past two weeks. However, it would seem very difficult to provide effective counsel through this medium. You have seen much of what myself and Alyson have said, but that is all you have seen. You don't know her, me, or our history. Also, I am not floundering along without the type of help and counsel that I need. I have a very close friend that fits every perameter suggested in previous postings as to the type of person I should be turning to for help right now: a very mature Christian, and someone who has been through similar difficulties and come out on the other side. And even though his situation ended in divorce, it was not for a lack of effort, integrity, or seeking of God's will on his part. Additionally, none of my my decisions have been made in haste or without prayer, study, advice, and careful consideration. Unlike Almighty God, who offers unlimited and unconditional grace, we as people have limits. Mine have been exceeded much more than once, and I have no more to give to this situation. Someone a while back urged me not to rush to divorce. I can assure you all that I am not.
Again, I thank you all for your sincerity and your concern.
God Bless you all.
--Chris

Chris,

I have and have had the feeling that you have not been rushing give the length of time that transpired since your first d-day. I fully acknowledge that none of us here fully know the situation as it exists today or how it existed for most of your marriage. It truely is your call.

But, I would be remiss if I did not point out that in no time since her A started and frankly since this marriage began has your W been as aware of herself, you, and how she has affected this marriage as she is now.

It may well be too little too late, that sure does happen. It may be that this is really the best decision you could make. I know for a fact that you are emotionally drained, who would not be. But, what I wonder is IF this new woman standing before you might not be the mate you are looking for in your life.

I also know for a fact that neither of you are the same person you were 2 years ago, 6 months ago, and perhaps even two weeks ago. Things change fast in these situations and they change particularly fast with two people at your age bracket and just learning so much about relationships.

I guess what I am asking is what do you have to lose by seeing IF the changes Alyson has undergone are good and permenate? You have already lost your old marriage, it is gone and it is dead, BUT you do have a chance although perhaps slim that a new marriage might be resurrected that far exceeds what you had.

One thing I do find interesting in your W's posts here, and that is she clearly realizes that she failed you on many levels. She sees how she failed you during your efforts to recover. And I since a deep respect for you that probably wasn't there even a month ago. She is seeing and hearing things that I doubt ever occured to her before.

I cannot tell you what to do, I surely cannot tell you your present course is wrong. What I can say is that in my many years on this planet, the people that I know that are the happiest are those that kept their options opened for as long as possible before making an life altering decision.

Your decision is life altering, actually even if you decide to remain married it would be life altering. So I would caution to tread carefully, go slowly and see what happens to Alyson as she grows and learns. I don't think she is dumb by any stretch of the word. I think she is fully capable of learning from experience and from other peoples experience.

So Chris, think about all of this deeply. Pray on it some more, and talk deeply with your friend. People deserve a second or even a third chance if they are willing to earn it. I would suggest to you, that up until a very short time ago, your decision to divorce was well warrented, but new data is coming in and perhaps it won't change things.

But, I do think you miss one point. You are not a man with unlimited and unconditional grace and neither am I. But, perhaps your W now has the information, the insight, and the interity to carry you as you carried her. Perhaps you might want to see if that statement is true.

Just some thoughts. I am glad you posted, and I am very glad you have been reading here. I am very sorry that you and your W have come here in this situation, and if I could I would relieve both of you of this terrible pain you have inside of you. But, you both know where the power to do that resides and it is not in me or anyone on this board that is for sure.

Please take time to think and consider what has transpired in the last few weeks. If you are interested I can offer you some posts here that will simply amaze you, in their complexity, in the work that God did, and how they have turned out.

Must go, Good night Chris, and God Bless,

JL

JL, do you have any e-mail address that I might be able to send you something?