Hi, this is my first time posting – but I’m just not sure where else to turn right now. I have been married for over 5 years. At least 4 of which have lacked much of what I consider to be crucial elements of a marriage. I got married when I was 21 years old, just finishing up with undergrad and my husband had just graduated. We were the first of our friends to get married. We both come from the same types of family – parents still together, fairly well-off, very loving and supportive of the two of us as individuals and as a couple.

However, I just am not in love with my husband any more. I don’t know when it happened, or if I was really ever “in love” to begin with. I think that he feels the same way about me. I have just finished my masters degree and am now almost 27 years old. In the last 8 years since we have been together, I have changed a great deal – emotionally and intellectually.

My husband is not a bad person – but there are certain qualities that I simply do not want to live with for the next 60 years of my life. To name a few, he is obsessed with money. I have heard that money is the number one cause of divorce, and had always thought that sounded silly. Well, I was wrong. We fight about money on a daily basis. I have approximately $90K in education loans and my husband has just started his second degree as well – so no, we do not have a lot of money (although he is taking out loans right now, his are being paid off by an outside fund). But, to argue on a daily basis about every penny spent – well I just can’t do it any more. I am not a big spender, but when I need to buy toilet paper or soap – I am going to do it and I don’t feel like I should have to ask permission. I have cut out everything that I love in life, as far as money is concerned, but some things are necessary. Especially when he spends money on his “toys.”

Anyway, along with the money issues – which go much deeper than what I have been able to articulate here – we are just completely opposites. I am a very social person, he is not. I behave when I’m out socially, but have a lot of fun – he embarrasses both of us when and if I can get him to actually come out. I am not the type of person that needs a lot of romance – but I get none, even when I try and give.

We have nothing to talk about, are bored when around each other, and there is a great awkwardness surrounding us. It has been almost 2 years since we have had sex. The thought of being intimate with him now makes me ill. I think that we both have a tendency to be abusive – him emotionally (and physically once) and me verbally. We don’t make each other laugh or enjoy each other’s company any more.

But in general I think that we are both very nice people. I care deeply about him as a friend and want him to have a wonderful, fulfilling life. I just don’t want to argue any more. I want to feel again. I want to be happy. And I just don't believe that is possible with him. Don't get me wrong, I could stay with him. But we would both be living our lives without passion, without love, without excitement or true companionship - we would simply be going through the motions.

We have been to numerous counselors – and they have almost always pinned the blame on my husband – which I cannot stand. It is never just one persons fault. And, the fact is, I haven’t told my husband or my counselors that I have been having an affair for the last 2 years.

I love this other man with all of my heart and soul. He satisfies me in ways that make me feel alive - and I would be very happy spending the rest of my life with him. But, I have wanted a chance to be happy for a long time before I met OM. I had talked to my husband about a divorce for a long time before I ever met OM. Part of me wants to tell my husband about it – but I know that is just the selfish part of me talking because either way, I think I need to be out of this marriage. Whether or not, if the marriage ends, I end up with OM, well, only time will tell – however, the secrecy, double lives, lying and guilt – neither of us can handle that part any more.

I just don’t know if I can go through with it though. I am scared for many reasons – security, finances, the stigma attached to going through a divorce, the fact that almost none of our friends or family know that we are having problems at all because we always fake it.

I know that my husband feels the same way I do – but he is scared. He will go through stages of yelling and screaming at me – he often holds things in and then explodes – and tell me he wants a divorce. We both agree that we want to be happy, that neither of us is happy or has been for years, and that we have no idea how to fix it. We really have tried to do all of the counseling, faking being nice to each other, talking about everything, etc. It just doesn’t work for us. We are very different people. He is completely afraid to be alone. And, I am too. But, I guess I can’t justify staying together out of fear of being alone, or fear about what our families would say.

But, I’m not 100% sure. My OM wants no contact with me until or unless I get divorced, which I think is completely fair and will be better for both of us. We are moving to different cities anyway, and it will give me more of a chance to clear my head and figure things out without having him in the mix – b/c when it comes right down to it, this is between my husband and me.

I am scared even writing all of this out and would appreciate any advice or help any of you can give me.

Welcome to MBrs.... WOW.... You sure have developed quite the list of resentments towards your husband. Though I'm sure you do go through your periods of guilt, this list I'm sure has also comforted you and allowed you to justify the most selfish act conceived by man.

What I truly don't understand is how you could reasonably expect anything different when you've been out of the marriage for 40% of the time. Over the past two years you haven't given your husband the opportunity to meet your emotional needs because you've been with another. Over the past two years you've failed at meeting his needs, because once again you're meeting someone elses. That you've chose to lie to your husband and the counsellors that rely on your honesty in order to try to help you, goes a long way towards defining where you are emotionally.

And now you think the Other Man is showing some respectability by saying he won't be further involved with you until you divorce your husband, when in actuality he's being controlling and selfish... Oye Vey....

Dear, I could write a book to you but you're a smart girl. What you are doing is wrong no matter what outcome comes from this. Go to your husband tonight and for the 1st time be honest with him without any justifications. End things with the other man totally and take the neccessary steps to get yourself healthy before you infect other people.

You may end up with a wonderful marriage or you may end up without anyone but you can end up with one thing you don't have an ounce of now and that's dignity. It's never to late to do the right thing.

"...the stigma attached to going through a divorce...."

Uff Da! What about the stigma attached to having an affair and lying to your husband for 2 years?

I guess as the ex-husband of a woman who had an affair and divorced me against my wishes *I* am the one with the stigma?

I understand, and agree with you both. I didn't realize how cold and immature my post actually sounded. I just have never done anything like this before and didn't exactly know how to express my feelings or a situation that is so personal and emotional.

I need you to know that I was meeting as many of husband's needs as I could - I mean making meals, spending time, talking, etc. And no one knows about the affair. Not that that makes it any better. I'm not trying to justify the affair - it was wrong plain and simple and the guilt was and is unbelievable. I want it to remain a secret b/c I don't want to hurt my husband, and I don't want to embarrass him. My affair is over right now - completely, as in no contact whatsoever.

I also need you to know that for the first 6 years that we were together 3 before marriage, 3 during, that I put in 150% into the marriage and honestly did not get much back. We discussed this over and over again - and my husband agreed and would try for a day or two - and then it'd go back to normal. After that many years, I honestly didn't feel like I had it in me to keep trying. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

You husband sounds a lot like me, as far as his behaviour and attitude go. It did take her big A for me to finally "get it" and make those 1-2 day changes in attitude stick for good. I wouldn't be surprised if it does that for your hubby too, but maybe it's too late for you personally to try to work on this marriage. I just wouldn't give up so quickly if it's at all salvageable.

“””I want it to remain a secret b/c I don't want to hurt my husband,”””

Honey, you’ve hurt your husband and continue to show a willingness to do so, that’s a given. YOUR AFFAIR, YOUR ACTIONS, YOUR CHOICES are what will and continue to hurt him. Being honest with him, simply lets him know where that hurt truly came from. You don’t want the affair to be exposed because you don’t want to hurt yourself or be embarrassed yourself. He deserves to know why his life has been so screwed up for the past two years. You may think you were meeting his needs but you weren’t, plain and simple. He knows something was wrong but your lying and some goofball counselors have convinced him he’s screwed up. Quite frankly, he deserves to know to decide if he wants anything to do with you.

I truly wish you could read these words from the outside and not from being in the middle of the situation. 98% of the words you typed are presented in such a justifying manner that it’s almost sickening. And I’m not judging you or anything like that, you’ve made some bad choices. So what’s the right thing to do. If you feel that the right thing to do is lie, cheat, and steal then we really have nothing to talk about. Yet, you’re here asking. There’s a little voice telling you the right thing and you know it.

Tell your husband. Tell your husband. On the way home tonight stop by a bookstore and buy Surviving the Affair….

Most affairs do not result in divorce. What have you got to lose. You must fess up. You can't divorce him yourself nor can you attempt to get him to file a divorce. Either way he would have to go on with his life, never knowing, and thinking it was all his fault, his failure. If you stay married you'll never achieve true intimacy with this huge secret between you. You owe it to yourself to relieve yourself of the burden of this secret and you owe him the truth so he then can make choices affecting his life. Disclosure is a bitter pill but must be done despite the consequences you will necessarily endure.

The truth can move mountains. If he doesn't "cast you out" you may end up with a better marriage. He may be relieved that the "problem" in your marriage is actually identified and that it is not just him. If becomes "fixaable" and he no longer is banging his head against the wall trying to figure you what to do. Once identified, MB principles can be applied and the situation can be addressed. Most of us recovered marriages are better than pre-affair.

I am the BS, however, I just as easily could have been the WS. We are all human and I was just as unhappy as my wife. Ironically, her affair was the best thing that ever happened to our marriage. Without revealing your secret you'll never know, you'll regret it and you'll have not earned your way out of this marriage.

Read up here thoroughly, If he in fact "physically abused" you and it's not just fog talk then you'll need a safe environment to disclose in (probably a good idea anyway). Also, by reading you may be able to put away some of your justifications and be humbled before you disclose. IMO, if you can move past your entitlement thinking and out of the fog you may increase your chances of saving your marriage.

Keep posting, someone will come along with a similiar story. You're going to get many 2 X 4's here, don't engage in bickering, try to question your thinking not their's, and try to pick out the underlying good advice. Someday when you fully process this you'll look back and agree with most of them. Almost all here are well intentioned people.

You've made a huge mistake and you can attempt to fix it and make peace with yourself.

Others have said disclose today, I suggest developing a plan for exposure within one week or maybe 10 days. Work with the Boards or call Steve Harley to develope such plan. Plan A your butt off until then and stop blaming him for your marital problems until and if you get to recovery.

ACT

Well, I guess I am even more confused now. My marriage was bad before the A. Again, my husband is not a bad guy - I just don't have the feelings I had for him when I was 19 and 20 years old. He has told me that he does not have those feelings for me either and that he could not imagine having a sexual relationship with me too. But I feel like he is more content living like that.

I read my post and I agree that I sound like I am justifying the A -- In my head though I don't feel like that. I know the A was wrong, but it is over now and my feelings for my husband are the same now as before the A ever began. I love him as my friend. He definitely blames both of us for the marriage falling apart, as do I.

So, I guess I don't understand how this would be helpful for my husband to hear? I love the OM, but have ended things until I figure out what to do. I don't think it would be embarrassing for me to have this "outed" - I love him, plain and simple. But, I do think it would be very hurtful for my husband to hear - and I just don't want to hurt him any more.

Sometimes I sit here and think about all of this going on in my life and I either cry or feel that my head is going to explode - it is so hard. And even harder because everyone in our lives thinks our life is so "perfect" -- I am so sick of hiding what our marriage really is like.

Oh - and as for the physical abuse, it was only really bad one time, a long time ago. So I'm not as concerned about my safety.

athe,

You seem to be getting a lot of advice from BS's, and believe me, they always seem to have the best advice that you never want to hear but need to. But just as no one but a BS knows what it feels like to be a BS, no one knows what it feels like to be the WS but a WS.

Being a WS myself, I can hear a lot of myself, or who I used to be, in your words. I didn't want to tell my H about my A, and I told myself it was because I didn't want to hurt him. But the others are right, that's not really why. No one knew about what was going on, and I didn't want to expose myself. I didn't want to have to deal with the shame of my actions. I knew that what I was doing was hurting my H, and I am sure that things would have taken a completely different path if I had just been open and honest about what I had done. Regardless of what the state of your M was, you alone made the choice to have the A, and you need to take responsibility for your choices.

I know that you feel like there are so many problems in your M that there is nothing left and that nothing can be done. But I am guessing all of the issues that you have now were there when you got married, but you still got married because you loved each other. For a long time, I didn't feel in love with my H, and right now, he definitely doesn't feel in love with me. But love is action first, and eventually the feeling will follow.

Someone recommended getting the book "Surviving an Affair" and I definitely agree. Reading that book will help you over the hurdles that you are about to face. After that, I would also recommend reading "His Needs, Her Needs." I know you said you did your best to meet your H's needs ... but he may have emotional needs that you didn't quite understand. This book will help you understand his needs, as well as your own, and how they should be met. Also read "Love Busters" because that is something that clearly has contributed to the current state of your M. And get your H to read these books as well.

I could have easily written this post myself a year ago (with a few differences) so I know where you are and how you are feeling. I am here to talk if you need someone.

Call Steve Harley and schedule and appointment. It's money well spent. A divorce or bursting your "perfect" bubble will cost much, much, more. You can save face, you can save your marriage, but the only way is by disclosing despite the hurt you will inflict. Copy and Paste your first post over on a new thread in the General Discussion II board. Put a hat on for 2x4's. But just keep questioning your strategy.

Someone here will have a good story for you. A model to recovery. There are risks. But you can't control everything. But at least you gave it a try. You will never obtain intimacy with your husband unless you tell him the truth. You will never recover your feelings for your husband unless you tell him the truth. You're still very young, if your husband chooses not to forgive you OR if you guys legitimately try to recover your marriage and fail then you can you put your mistakes behind you and move forward with a clear conscious.

Many people keep the secret and you can go to your grave with it. The book Surviving an Affair even acknowledges that most affairs go unknown. But you'll have to live with the secret the rest of your life.

No matter where you end up, there you will be.

I've read some threads regarding disclosure. Do some word searchs on the general discussion II board.

Try to build a life you yourself envy, you only get one, who cares what others think.

ACT

cinnymd,

Thank you for your post, in a weird way it is nice to know that I am not the only one going through this.

There is a big part of me that cannot imagine not having my husband in my life. We have been in each other's life for so long, considering how young we are still.

I must admit that part of me is so very afraid to let my husband know about the affair - for many reasons. (1) The OM is a "friend" of both of ours; (2) If I do tell him, he may decide to leave me, and then I will no longer have any say in the matter; (3) If that happened, rather than it being a mutual decision without fault being assigned, it would be very embarrassing and not only would I be losing my husband, but I would be losing a lot of other people in my life that i care about.

I am just so thankful that we do not have kids right now.

On a side note - I really do love OM and I would love to spend the rest of my life with him.

It is so confusing. And such a terrible thing. The guilt is overwhelming.

Thank you ACTdontreact,

I also posted this on the general questions II website like you suggested.

I can't believe how scary this all feels - actually saying it out loud (well, on-line anyway).

Statiscally you have a much better chance a having a fulfilling marriage with your husband than with the OM. I believe statistically marriages born out of an affair have a 3% success rate after 5 years whereas over 80% of marriages survive an affair. Most recovered marriages are happier and more fulfilling as you both learn how to properly be husband and wife. Nobody gave us directions when we got married and my wife went down the infidelity road. I could have as well. But using MB principles we are now happier than we were our first year of marriage and it's only been a couple months.

I've also seen here a statistic where some overwhelming number of Wayward Spouse biggest regret after 5 years of divorce was not giving their marriage a chance.

You must give it a chance. Disclosure is the only way to give it that chance. If he ends it at least you tried, if not, you both can try and make it work and end it if you must with NO REGRETS.

The rest of the world doesn't care that much. It's your life, take it by the horns and attempt to work this out with all the facts on the table.

ACT

And... what if I make the decision that a divorce is in my best interest? That I honestly do not want to continue in this marriage, then do I still come clean and tell husband about the A?

athe,

I thought I loved the OM too. And of course we both feel/felt that way. We thought the guy did a fantastic job of meeting the needs we felt our H didn't. I picked up "Surviving an Affair" thinking to myself ... I miss the OM, I care about him, I could see myself spending the rest of my life with him. I was just like you. But reading the book made things a lot clearer to me. I mean, this guy had flaws, just like everyone. But because I was "in love" I could completely overlook these things. Things I would have never tolerated in my H. And you can bet that if I had left my H for this guy, the needs that my H actually were meeting would go unmet, and I would have started to see this guy for who he really was ... a man that wasn't my H.

I can completely understand your fear in telling your H. A's have a lot to do with power. You are taking things into your own hands in getting your needs met. And by telling your H, you are putting your M into his hands. You are powerless at that point. And he may decide to leave you. But he may not. You aren't giving him the chance to make the decision that is his right to make.

You said that if you H left you and you didn't have any say in the matter "rather than it being a mutual decision without fault being assigned." But the fact is, there is fault. You checked out of the M two years ago. Your H has his fair share of blame for the condition of your M before the A, but now is not the time to address that. You have added something to the mix that needs to be fixed first before any of that can be dealt with.

Let me offer some hope for you. Last summer, my H found out about my A because he found a card from the other guy ... it said something about "making love," which tore my H apart. When he confronted me, I was mad. I wasn't ready to give anything up. I yelled at him. I was an awful person. And then I told him I needed some time away to think (when in reality all I really wanted was to have some time to spend with the OM). My H wanted to be with me so much that he helped me find a hotel (he still thought I just wanted to think) and then came to put a card and flower on my car while I was there. He found the OM's car at the hotel, and obviously got upset. But a couple of weeks later, I came to him telling him I wanted to work on things, and he welcomed me home (with stipulations of course ... I had to find a good, Christian MC and make the appointment and I could never speak to the OM again). We went to counseling and I was often still stubborn and defensive. But he kept at it.

I say all this because I want you to realize that you never know how your H will react. He could very well be willing to fight to build a M that you both can be proud of . But you need to give him the chance.

Your first paragraph was so right on it's creepy. Unfortunately for me, I can somehow look objectively at the situation and see OM for what he is - someone who makes me laugh, who is intelligent, caring, affectionate, etc. and at the same time I can see that he can be very lazy and dependent and selfish. I have no idea why I would be willing to overlook these things. He wasn't like that at first, and I know that this A has weighed heavily on OM too - to the point where he can't do it anymore either. But subjectively, I love him. He has my whole heart. Part of me thinks that he will change if we started a "real" relationship. I know in my head that is not true - that's the type of thinking that got me in trouble with my marriage.

I actually tried to break off my engagement with my husband before we got married b/c I didn't feel it was "right" - but he convinced me he could change. Obviously it didn't happen. I remember my mom asking me if I was sure I was ready for marriage. But, it was exciting at the time. We were both so young, very well-liked in the community - it was almost like someone took the two people who would fit together "status-wise" the best and that's how we got together.

I just feel like such a different person now.

If you use AIM at all, feel free to IM me at GodsGrl98 because all of this back and forth action could make a person dizzy!

I have to say, reading your posts are just as creepy for me because I was completely you. I had doubts before I got married. But I remember thinking ... my parents have put so much into this that I can't back out now. Or at least that was what I told myself after the A. It is much easier to justify when you think the marriage wasn't right in the first place.

But regardless of how you were feeling, you STILL GOT MARRIED. You still made promises to your H -- promises that you broke. And he deserves the chance to show you he can keep his promises ... to love you in good times and in bad. No doubt, this is one of the worst.

It breaks my heart to see the way that you talk about the OM. You think you are able to objectively look at your feelings for the OM. But you really aren't capable of that. I say this from experience. This is what MB calles "the fog." I highly suggest you search MB to read about that. And if the OM truly had your whole heart, then you wouldn't be here.

I could write a whole book more, but my whiny dog wants me to play!

As always, I am here to listen and to offer my advice.

Yes, you still must disclose:

As Dr. Phil says, "You've got to earn your way out" of a marriage.

How do you propose hooking up with OM without your husband knowing or at least guessing there was prior contact?

Maybe you'll discover your husband is having an affair? Maybe his has been going on longer than yours even? Maybe when you both decide to try you can have the marriage you always wanted?

To many "what if's" and "maybe's". Do what you want, but I hope you're here questioning your thinking. The more you question the more I hope you'll see we are right.

Sure you guys are different people than when you were 20. But you're 2 adults with a lot of history together. My itilian grandparents were an arranged marriage and they met one week before their wedding day at ages 23 & 25. They lived a long and fulfilling life together. You at least got to choose your husband and you took a vow to stand by him. I won't hammer you on the moral issues cause you're really not prepared to listen (no offense, it's just the way WS's are), however, God didn't promise you happiness in this life. Your actions today and tomorrow will directly effect your happiness in the afterlife. Disclosure would be the first step to atonement for your actions/choices. You can either tell him now, wait 5 years and do it then, but someday you have to do it.

I am no preacher and I am not your judge, it's just my belief. What do you believe and what principles do you or should I say do you want to live your life by.

Last thought, as far as OM is concerned, if he'll do it with you, he'll do it to you. If he was so altruistic why didn't he encourage you to get a divorce before he layed down with you? And, OM knows your husband. He's not the winner you think he is, double that if he's married also. It seems the only respectible man you have available is in your home, (((((GIVE HIM A CHANCE))))).

Please start make right choices and keep posting even if you don't like what I and others have to say. We really are trying to help.

ACT

Athe,

Look at this one single post and then tell me your affair has not affected your thinking and your treatment of your H. You said
So you have been meeting your H's needs right? Please look at what you have just said and tell me your H's feelings have been much of a consideration. You want to "share" with him the "fault" for the divorce, and yet your have unilaterally taken up with his friend, lied to him for two years, given to the OM what you were supposed to be give to your H, and avoid taking any responsibility for the A protecting YOU and OM, but NOT your H. Nice, real nice.


Let's see you really love OM, so I can guess how "loving" you have been to your H. Don't you see he KNOWs something is wrong, it is frustrating him, it is torturing him to know the marriage is going south and NOT know why and why is in this quote just above. Dear God woman, if you have any compassion for your H tell him the truth, let him deal with the reality of who you are. You might be surprised at his reaction. His love for you might be far deeper than you have ever imagined.


Simple solution, RADICAL HONEST it is the bedrock of this site. Please read the articles on Needs, Love busters and the concepts of Radical honesty and the Policy of Joint Agreement, POJA. There are multiple ways out of this situation, but only one step will return to you your dignity, and that is by being truthful.

If you do NOTHING else tell him the truth, if you fear his reaction do it with a clergyman/woman present,or a counselor. Further, in the counseling you have had you have lied to both the counselor and your H and thereby making HIM the bad guy, don't you think that frustrates your H. He is the bad guy, but you are skating by lying. No wonder the counseling failed. You never gave your H or the counselor a single chance. You should feel extremely guilty about that.

So please do me a favor and refrain from the statement "this affair has not hurt my marriage or my H because he does not know." He has been hurt directly by you and indirectly by the lies you told the counselor.

Please take time to reread what you have written. See it in black and white, you have been at least partially truthful here and for that you are to be commended. Your words are not poorly choosen, your grammer is fine, your choice of vocabulary is great, so you are saying what you mean. Read your words and feel what you have said.

I hope you do a lot of reading on this site. You will see and learn things you never believed.

Oh! and right now you are in what is called "withdrawal" from the affair, very much as a drug addict goes through withdrawal, INCLUDING the same changes to the brain chemistry. It will take at least a month and possibly 3 months for the withdrawal to pass and during that time you will NOT see what you have truely done, you will NOT love your H, and you will have little feeling for him because you will be so focused on YOUR pain. This is normal, it happens virtually everytime, and it will end IF you give it a chance to. No contact with OM of any kind will help. If you do contact him the clock starts over just as a drug addict or alcoholic does when they break down and get another fix or drink.

This is not a hypothesis it is fact, take it to the bank. You have not had sex with your H for exactly the amount of time you have been in the affair interesting isn't it? You have no desire for your H because you have focused on OM. Please don't ever say the affair is not the REAL problem. I am betting your H would enjoy sex with someone who cared, or by now with just about anyone. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Please please think about this very carefully. You are only seeing part of the picture. The people here have seen the whole thing, over and over, affairs have very predictable steps, throught their development, the existence and their ending. You will and have already stated things in EXACTLY the words of many WS's have used on this site in the 6 plus years I have been posting here.

Please think carefully.

God Bless,

JL

This stuff is really hard to hear - because my head is saying that it's wrong. That no one really knows our situation. By the way though, we haven't done too much counseling during the A - it was mostly before it started, and that is when the MC's were telling him he was the one that needed to make the changes. Back then I was actually honest.

Right now if feels like I have been living two lives, neither of which are truly making me happy. Obviously I feel much happier though when I am with OM. The thought of completely losing him makes me ill. I see his faults, but at least there is passion.

And, here is the MOST selfish thing you will ever hear another person say probably - I wish I could just do a test run with OM and see if it would work and then make a decision about what I wanted to do. Isn't that the most awful thing you have ever heard? But, I have been lying to a lot of people, including to myself for a long time now, and I guess I just feel like I need to be completely honest.

By the way just an fyi -- OM is not married, loves me very much, hates the secrecy, and was only friends with husband through me - so not really friends.