<BR>Katya,<P>I guess the reason I haven't made contact with the OM yet is because of the reasons listed by K. I don't want to give my wife any more reasons to resent me. It would be a huge lovebuster right now, and I'm working my behind off to avoid upsetting her. I haven't told her I know who the guy is yet for the same reason - she thinks she's protecting him from me (or protecting her memory of him, perhaps) and there's no need right now for me to destroy that. In addition to all that, I think she has discontinued contact with him, so I don't think there's anything to gain by contacting him. I'm afraid to rock my leaky, drifting boat right now.<P>The only noble reason I can see for making contact would be to let his wife know what kind of slime her husband is. Whether or not that is a good reason is debatable. Selfishly, I'd really like him to know that I'm able to wreck his life if I decide to.<P>InSane (I think I'm getting better)<BR>

This is great Katya! I did something similar, not to the extent because I don't know where the OW worked. Anyway, I did find her phone number and called her. I identified myself, told her that she is a whore and that I knew what she was doing with my H and told her to stay away or she would have to deal with me. Her daughter happenned to be on the other line and heard everything. I'm glad. She didn't give a damn when she invaded my life so I don't give a damn about her either.<P>She is also married. I'm sure she was afraid that I would tell her H because I would if she continued with my H. Maybe the daughter said something. Anyway, I don't really care if the rest of her family found out. It's their problem and she helped create it.<P>Some people wouldn't approve of what I did, but each couple's situation is unique from each other. What works for one person doesn't always work for another. I don't think its fair to generalize that the same thing is good for everyone.<P>Anyway, it worked for me and I have no regrets. In fact, I'm glad I did it. It gave me peace of mind to know that I made myself clear that I am NOT a "pushover."<P>I'm not the type to just sit around and take it. My H and I haven't heard from her since.....<P>Since she has been out of the picture, my H and I are able to focus on just US, without her worming her slimy self back into our lives.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by NoTrust (edited September 27, 1999).]

IF YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE THEM, THE BETRYERS OF THIS WORLD, FEAR THE LOSS OF SOMETHING REALLY IMPORTANT TO THEM THAT WILL SURE HELP THEM GET A GRIP ON RELLITY...THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT THERE SPOUSE,KIDS, FAMILY....WE WILL ALL BE FINE.......BUT IF THERE IS A THREAT TO THEIR JOB, MONEY, THEMSELVES.....THAT IS WHAT THEY CARE ABOUT MOST........THEMSELVES.......YOU GO GIRL! <BR>IF COMPANIES WOULD INFORCE STRICK RULES AGAINST ADULTERY THEN WE WOULD SEE A DECLINE, BUT NO NO NOBODY WANTS TO GET INVOLVED WITH THAT, AS LONG AS WE DONT WEAR BLUE JEANS TO WORK, THINGS ARE GREAT!

I called my w's and om workplace to inquire about their new code of ethics. I was told that didn't cover personal relationships.<BR>I asked about personal calls and was told they are to be limited but there was no way to monitor them.<BR>What a great system !<BR>I plan on calling human resources if om calls my w if and when she moves back. Not sure what I'll do if she calls him ???<BR>I had also planned to write a letter to head of hospital telling what had happened after our divorce. That paln has been scrapped for now.

Wow! That's the stuff of which my fantasies are made! I hope it turns out for the best. <P>In my case, I suspected that doing harm to the OW would just drive the two of them together. And I don't think the management of the company would give two hoots about it. I wish she was married so I could ruin her life by telling her H, but she's single.

Katya,<BR>You are my hero for doing what you did. So is the OW's boss. Good work. <BR>

I love this...planning my own version as I type...!!!!!! WHoo Hoo!!

Why does it sound like you're so proud of yourself for what you've done? I understand fighting for your man. But it seemed to me that you already won, when he chose you over her. Why waste your time on her if you really believe him? And did you tell your husband what you did? Is that something that would endear you to him? I doubt it. I find it interesting that you've been cheated on more than once. I was the betrayer in my situation. You're personality sounds so much like the wife of my OM. He still calls me. Begs me to see him.(I won't, the big loser) Says he will always love me, and is only with her because he is trapped. ( we were never discovered, but after I ended the affair, he told her about it ... what a wimp) Whatever, I want no part of him or an affair. But I find it sad that she is all smug, thinking that she won,(I'd tell her just so she wouldn't look like an idiot, but she probably wouldn't believe me anyway) that he chose her,that her marriage is all better because I'm "out of the picture". That's not the way it is. He's just too afraid of her. If she only knew all the times he tries to see me. He didn't choose her, he just got better at lying to her. As long as he plays the game her way, says what she wants to hear things are OK. If it were me, I'd want to know that my H was with me because he WANTED to be with ME, not because I got rid of anybody else that happened to be a threat to me. Seems like a major love buster. I know that I will stand alone on this opinion. That's OK. And I'm not wanting to start a fight. I just don't think it would be so wise to feel so secure at this point. I don't think the real problem is your OW. And I don't think that your marriage will be any better because you think you scared her off. There will always be more women out there happy to get at your husband. You can't call all thier bosses. But you can fix what ever is broke at home to keep H happy there. <P>[This message has been edited by Sorina (edited September 28, 1999).]<P>[This message has been edited by Sorina (edited September 28, 1999).]<p>[This message has been edited by Sorina (edited September 28, 1999).]

Regardless of what Sorina says, I still think what you did, Katya, was great. Don't let anyone rain on your parade.<P>Sorina's attitude is interesting. She seems to think that her OM is only staying with his wife because he's too afraid to leave. The way I see it is he is STILL lying to Sorina & his own wife.<P>A betrayer doesn't know what it feels like to be betrayed until it has happenned to them. (I know that there are others out there who have had the unfortunate experience of being both betrayed and betrayer.)<P>Like I said earlier, for me, and in my situation, it helped to say something to the OW because I'm sure that the OW didn't know that my H finally exposed their affair to me. He ended it with the "no contact" rule. He didn't even call her to end it. She went looking for him and even tracked him down at the gym where he works out at to find out why he hadn't been calling or seeing her.<P>He told me about her call and that he told her that he loves me and it was over and he should have never started anything with her to begin with. I called her and let her know that I knew about it and that she better stay away.<P>I have no regrets about it and I would tell her husband and family if I had to. She didn't give a damn about me & my family so I don't care what happens to her or her family.<P>My H and I are recovering wonderfully and haven't heard from this OW for 6 months now.<P>That's my 2 cents in this....So, Katya...don't have any regrets over what you did and don't let anyone tell you otherwise... <BR>

No Trust, <BR> I truly do understand the need to confront the other woman. The W in my situation never did confront me, and I think that it would have helped put closure to this for both of us. Confrontation is a good thing, done in the right way. But I think that manipulation is a totally different matter that usually ends up backfiring, and in my opinion, that is the way I think the above situation was handled. That is only my opinion.<P>And as for the my former OM, well of course he's lying! He's a worm. He wants it both ways. (you'll notice that I said I have nothing to do with him anymore) I say that he stayed with her out of fear, because she manipulated him, too. She told his mother that she'd take him for everything he has , ( which is quite a lot)if he left her. He's very passive, and nonconfrontational. He couldn't handle the ugliness of a divorce. His wife is the one with the strong personality, at least when it comes to running him. When confronted by someone else, she'll be the first one to back down. I suppose that we all need to do what we need to do to keep our marriage. I just think that manipulation is cowardly. Your post states that you confronted the OW. That needed to be done, obviously. Or else she wouldn't have known that it was over. (These men drive me nuts sometimes. It's not like she participated in the affair all by herself, at least he could have been a man and ended it. Let his wife do his dirty work for him....sheesh!) It's great that your husband is remorseful. But I bet if after you had confronted the OW, you'd have been vindictive to her, he would have felt a little sorry for her. She would have then become the victim in his mind, and you the bad guy. Just a thought.

Sorina, just a little clarification here.....my H ended it with OW before I contacted her. He just gave her "no contact," however she couldn't stand him not contacting her so she went looking for him by making a phone call to the gym where he works out at. Over the phone, he told her he didn't want to ever see her again and he should have never started up with her to begin with. But, I still felt the need in my own self to confront her also. It was nagging at me so I made that call afterwards. In my situation, it made me feel better.<P>I'm glad that you ended it with the OM. Obviously, he is a worm who still wants to live that double life.<P>Although, sometimes it is uncomfortable, it is good to know how the other side (betrayer, sorry for the label)...feels about the situation. That's the only way we can understand this irrational mess.<P>Good luck in your recovery....<p>[This message has been edited by NoTrust (edited September 28, 1999).]

No Trust<BR>Sorry that I mixed up on your situation. I now have respect for your husband for what it's worth. It's not easy to end an affair, even if you aren't in love with the person. And no need to apologize for the label. It's accurate. I prefer "Former Betrayer" but that's just splitting hairs. I don't deny that what I did was hideous. I would love to take it back, but I can't, so the next best thing is to allow my mistake to be used to benefit someone else. <BR>It does get ugly, doesn't it?

Yes Sorina...I have to agree...affairs are ugly and tragic too....but sometimes the married couple can have a happy ending and even a former betrayer can learn and move on to a better and more meaningful relationship. We're all human and we all make mistakes. It's learning from our mistakes that count...Best of luck to you!

Katya: My name is Kate and my username is catnip. I've been on the forum since May and I am delighted to see that there is someone else out there who refuses to take the hits, and the slings and arrows without a fight. On August 4th, I had a sudden impulse to book a flight to NYC and show up on the doorstep of the OW, unannounced. I had to see what I was up against and had many questions including one for myself...can I stay in my marriage? My H had a thirty day fling with a woman he met at a party I did not accompany him to. After 20 years of marriage, we began having some problems a year prior to his fling, due to his loss of sobriety after 17 years. This very short fling resulted in the OW becoming pregnant over Thanksgiving weekend in Dallas. She delivered a girl on Aug 20th.<BR>I didn't know if I could stay in the marriage or not and had to see what was the big attraction, so I spontaneously hopped on a jet, rented a car, got a map and waited for her in front of her house. I got out of my car and introduced myself and her eyes rolled into her head and she groaned "why are you here"? I told her I had just flown all the way from Minnesota just to see her and I meant her no harm, but I had many questions and probably many answers for her as well. It was a very reveiling 6 and a half hours. We sat on her deck talking til 1:30 in the morning. It was EXTREMELY painful for me to sit there and look at her as big as a house, pregnant with my husband's child when I could not have our own child myself. I fought the tears and was very disarming. I got her to tell me everything I wanted to know, I gave her answers she had been looking for, and I made my decision. My H did not know I went to see her. He was absolutely blown away that I did this when I called him the next morning from my hotel. He was worried sick because I had not been home and wondered where I was. He just couldn't believe I would go to such lengths to protect myself, my marriage and resolve the issues that were deviling me. I still obsess. I am still in incredible pain. I will never be like I once was nor will my marriage ever be completely trusting as it once was. However, we have been working on it since January and the months from January to June were hell to get through. Since June we've made amazing strides and we may be able to make it. I chose to stay in the marriage because I couldn't see throwing away 20 incredible years for an alcohol induced 30 day fling, no matter the horrendous outcome. <BR>I told the OW when I saw her that I had tried to talk to her right from the start of the fling but she refused to talk to me except to threaten to "kick my [censored]". Charming. She simply wanted my husband at any cost and intentionally got herself knocked up.<BR>It is imperitive that the betrayed spouse go above and beyond the call of duty to protect the family, their children, their history, and try to restore the closeness and confront the demons in order to resolve the issues plaguing the marriage, regardless the outcome. At least you and I know we did everything we could to end the involvement and restore the marriage and if that isn't good enough and the marriage fails, we know it won't be for our lack of trying.<BR>Good luck to you, Katya. I am so pleased you went to such lengths to keep things from getting more out of hand. On some level, my H was flattered beyond words that I thought enough of the marriage and of him that I would be so bold to fly to a city I hadn't been to in 25 years, a huge city, just to resolve this issue so we could go on. If I hadn't done this, I would be tormented with inaccurate picture in my head, I would be congering up scenarios that never happened (what actually happened was heart-breaking enough) and I would have had the ridiculous illusion that my competition was akin to a Victoria's Secret model or other such nonsense. <BR>At any rate, I truly believe that none of us (the betrayed) have anything to loose by being bold and proactive in confronting the OP. And it may show our spouse how very important they are to us and make them somewhat proud that we are so gutsy...or obnoxious depending, of course, on one's point of view!<BR>Love, Catnip

To everyone who responded to me, I want to thank you for your support. As for those who are in disagreement with me such as K,lark and sorina, it is your own judgement to think that you rained on my parade. Quite the contrary, you didn't because I feel what I had to do I did to protect my family. We have two small children. There was no way that I was going to sit down and take it and be disrespected. Quite possibly, you would have done nothing but get on this post and whine about what should you do and do absolutely nothing about your situations. Sorry, but I choose to be proactive instead of inactive. It doesn't have to take me 500 posts since I joined (like some of you) to do something about my situation. Again, I will say that I NEVER forced him to call her and MAKE him end it. We sat and had a very long talk and I gave him the choice to be with her or me. I was not about to sit around and let me keep treating me like this. It's bad enough, I have waited patiently for 2 years for some kind of sex, affection, intimacy and now to find this out, I was not about to waste anymore time. HE made the decision to end it with her...NOT ME. I told him that Iloved him very much but was not going to get in his way if he decided to go with her. If I did, he would never be happy with me. HE DECIDED to work at our marriage, go to therapy and give what I asked...110% into the marriage. Since he told me he wanted me and would end it with her, there was no harm in me pursuing in calling her to let her know to stay away and to take further actions so that she would stay away so WE could work on our marriage without some hussy trying to keep interferring in our marriage. I appalled "catnip" for doing what she did. Talk about gutsy, but again, she wanted to save her marriage. She has invested 20 years into hers. Why should she just roll over and say o.k., do what ever you want, take over my marriage, my husband and destroy what I have had for the past 20 years. NO! Sorina, if you think I am like your om's wife then there's somehting to be said for that...because who is he actually with? Who did he marry??? Of course he is a snake, but, then again I wouldn't put up with him either.<BR>Thank you Trust, for your support. Regardless of what these members feel, for the most part of everyone who wrote in, feels the same way I do. I would do it again, but, there will never be an again. Because we both agreed that we will both be working on this marriage together because it is worth saving. He told me that I don't deserve anything less than being treated like a queen and that he was so very sorry. I can only say that I will believe it when I see it. I will also say that if he goes back to his "ways" again, then I will not pursue in trying to save this marriage again, because then it will be quite obvious that there will be no marriage to save anymore. By me confronting her and did what I did and communicated with my h to see where we were going, helped put a closure with the om and put a new beginning with the man I married.

Dear Catnip:<BR>Bravo to you!!!! I was also delighted to read your post to me about what you had done. It takes alot of courage and guts to go to the extent that you had. I also would have done the same. Some people may not understand how important a marriage is to us. Yes, it's like a lion who will protect her babies to any extent. My husband was also flattered that I did something like that to protect my marriage. I was kind of surprised that he was so surprised that I cared so much. We both know now how much work it is to bring the marriage back. I am not naive either. There could be a chance of him giving up and going back to her. But, I have to work with him and this marriage. I can't start thinking "what if" because that is no way to improve a marriage. I don't feel that I will ever trust him again because he broke that bond. Like you, it's very painful to go through this. There are days that I just look at him and hate him for having done this to US, to me. I feel that when we are with someone, we love them, marry them, share everything our hear and soul...we have a connection, a string that is connected from us to them. If the husband, boyfriend, cheats, then that string is broken forever and somehow can never be trusted again. We could love again, love with all our hearts, but trust is another thing. This is how I feel about it. It was very important for me to confront her and get rid of "those demons" that would consistently be there plaguing my mind, emotions, everyday thoughts. Now that I have done what I have done, I can move on. You are so right, if it fails, I can never say that I did not do everything I could to save it. It sure won't be for the lack of trying. Thanks for your post again, catnip, it was great reading a success story on keeping your husband to the extent you did! I wish you the best of luck and hope that your husband really realizes what a wonderful wife he has to have gone to the extent you had to save your marriage! Let me know how things are going with you down the road. You know where to find me.<BR>Your friend, Katya

Man, I wish I had the guts to do what some of you have done. All I could muster the courage to do was leave a note in her mailbox calling her a whore and telling her to watch her back. I got scared when she threatened to call the authorities because I am a teacher and love my job more than anything. Then I realized the only reason she said that was because she was scared s**tless. I guess I got my point across.

Katya,<P>Just as a point of clarification, I took "issue" at your post because the actions that you claimed you took appeared to be against "MarriageBuilder" rules (and this is a MarriageBuilder site). You've since clarified that this action was "basically" done in accordance with the Policy of Joint Agreement.<P>You seemed to point me out as the "whining" 500 poster---if you care to read the 1700+ posts that I've put out here, you'll find very few deal with "my situation". It was pretty much resolved when I came here. Those 1700 posts are focused mainly on trying to help people understand the application of the MarriageBuilder principles to their marital problems. That's it. Very little whining (well, maybe a bit... )<P>I'll stick by my original post. You may be in "protective" mode, but your instincts can often harm your marriage. And you were acting instinctually. It may have worked fine in your case (everyone's situation is different), but your chances of long term success in your marriage will be greatly enhanced by learning to apply the MarriageBuilder principles. And that's why I stay here---to help people learn and apply these principles.

I did this the first month I found out about my wife's affair. I'm not sure whether it helped or hurt. I knew nothing about "marriage builders" back then. I was just mad as hell!<P>First, the blessed "Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission"(PTC)... a heap of large corporation bumblers, said they'd look into it. God... I gave their investigating unit copies of 550 emails[covering over 3 months of illict conversations] between my wife and her lover(employee of PTC) about 10% during company time... AND NOTHING!<P>I'm not too surprised though! It took a PTC employee (who took nude pictures of employees with a company camera... on company time) to get a PA state senator to file for divorce (his wife was one the "photos".) At least this guy got caught, but to my knowledge has NOT been reprimanded.<P>Some companies shield their employees too much! Or themselves from scandal! Sometimes it's just red tape! Could be that my wife's lover is in tight with the local union too (I'm not union bashing here... my dad works in a union!)<P>However... the incident seemed to push my wife closer to her lover... at that time... whether that changes in the future... who knows?<P>They now are living in her apartment near where he used to live[his mom's at the age of 42] Yes... idiot me, I paid for first two month's rent! thinking "if she only got to know the bum(sponge)." At least she still has no job. I wish I had "Surviving an Affair" sooo much earlier!<P>That's why I'm not sure whether it helped or hurt my situation!<P>Now I am still in Plan A... informally for a couple of months so far.<BR>Plan B sometime next year.<P>Jim

Katya,<P>I can't believe you would stoop so lie to insult those of us who didn't cheer you on like the others. I've only posted 59 times, Sorina only 20 or so, so obviously you are referring to "K" as someone who posts 500 times to whine. That was very rude. You obviously are not familiar with K. He is a mentor to many people on this forum. Take a look around. People post to HIM, asking him for his insight. He is correct that RARELY do his posts deal with his own situation.<P>Not everyone is going to cheer you on, and just cause they don't doesn't mean you have to lash out at them. We're not your enemies, just saying that we viewed things differently than you did. I still hold by my original feelings that trying to "strongarm" the OP is a waste of time and energy. If your spouse doesn't want the OP to contact them, then the subject is moot. That is where I prefer to direct my attention.<P>But hey, if it works for you, fine. Good for you and I'm happy for you. I wouldn't waste my time on that, I'm PROACTIVE in my marriage. The OP is not a part of that.<P>Take care.