married 15 years
together 19
no children
husband is seeing (possible living with) married woman with 2 children-he had an affair with her when we were still together

my husband and i have negotiated our property settlement. we have both consulted with attorneys.

alimony is the one item that i have not yet made a decision about and could really use some ideas based upon the experiences or knowledge of others here.

i have sent the draft of the final agreement to my husband but still need to send this last item to be included.

my lawyer told me i cannot get alimony now becuse i make a few thousand dollars more than my husband.

however, my husbands agreement draft stated that we both waives all claims now and in the future. Together we used the draft his lawyer wrote as a guide and rewrote the agreement the way we wanted to.

I took the draft we rewrote to my lawyer and this was his advice about alimony:

my lawyer says that i have two choices and both have risks:

1. i can agree to waive all claims now and in the future but if i should become disabled or medically unable to work-i have given up my rights to make a claim.

however....

2. if i do not waive my rights, i could make a claim later BUT SO COULD MY HUSBAND if he becomes disabled or medically unable to work as he most likely would not waive his rights if i do not.

so....i leave the door open for both of us or shut it on both of us

i wanted to try including a statement that I RETAIN my rights based upon the involuntary statis of the separation and the fact that my husband is involved in another relationship BUT that he waives his rights for these reasons.

Here's the problem with that-my husband has spent thousands on his lawyer and does not want to go back to her-the agreement right now has everything i want in it-my lawyer ways it's a great deal for me. BUT if i try to get this statemtne included-my husband may go back to his lawyer and she may advise against many of the things he and i agreed upon since his last visit to her months ago...so i may risk losing alot.

how long can you make a claim for alimony-just until the divorce (i have 9 months left before he can file) or can a claim be made after?

i have been clinically depressed twice so far and that is my fear...this situation may drag me back down (it appears to be starting again)


i'd appreciate any help so that i can finalize the draft and send it back to him....again.

this needs to be finalized very soon-more time makes it less worthwhile to my husband to settle eary instead of waiting until he can file

Dear Eav,

If this change could jeopardise the other arrangements you were able to make - couldn't you take an insurance yourself that will provide you with an income for the rest of your life if you should become disabled / unable to work? I have one because I'm self-employed.

Edited to add:
It might be tempting to MAKE your H take some sort of responsibility for you this way. I can imagine how hurtful it is that he isn't taking any kind of responsibility for you anymore. But honey, you're still so young, you WILL move on with your life. The process of discovery of an A / going through a D / will drain even the strongest person. All the legal hassle, the emotional things involved.. it's horrible. But it is temporary.

As you have been together with this man for most of your adult life, it might be very hard for you to imagine a life without him, or with a good partner, but there really is no reason why you wouldn't find a new partner in due time. Or why you couldn't have a happy life when the clouds of the D finally lift.

I'm glad you have a good income, that will help you to rebuild your life. I hope you have good support from a doctor or a counselor re. your depression so you recover as quickly as possible.

((((Eav))))

"my lawyer told me i cannot get alimony now becuse i make a few thousand dollars more than my husband."

Then why ever would you ask for it? Alimony is intended for people who are totally financially dependant on their spouse. It isn't intended to be punative.

You are not legally entitled to alimony so you should drop this.

It doesn't appear that you understand that when you ask for a divorce and it is granted you explicitly waive any and all future spousal rights. There will be language in the decree making this quite clear. Your husband would be an utter fool to agree to your item number 2. And as you seem to understand, so would you. If you want financial protection from possible future disability, buy disability insurance and keep this out of your divorce.

I agree with your H about not wanting to go back to his lawyer time and again with tit-for-tat changes in the settlement. My lawyer advised me that if this started happening, I should simply pay a retainer and file a counter-claim for divorce (as opposed to paying the standard hourly rate for document review and councel).

You are divorcing and have no children. Your divorce should be about nothing more than seperating marital property and financial obligations; then the two of you go your seperate ways. This WILL be the way the family court will look at things. It should be simple and inexpensive. If you do it any other way, you are wasting money. I gaurantee you that if you put in the clause you suggest and start talking about alimony, your divorce is going to become very expensive very quickly and you will not win in court. So why even go there?

checkurheart

you seem to be misunderstanding

i don't want a divprce....i want my husband back

i'm trying to watch out for my best interests financially only because this is being forced upon me by my husband and his MOW

i don't care if my husband has to spend every penny he had on a lawyer...this is his decision

i have forgiven him and only want to rebuild our marriage

the costs of his choices is his problem

i am worried about my future in case i become medically unable to work-in which case my lawyer says i would be eligible for alimoney

please do not respond to me again

repond to someone who actually wants a divorce and doesn't care if you are cold and heartless

Oh, but I most assuredly do understand, Eve. I understand completely. Two years ago I was in the exact same boat you are now in: A wife divorcing me so she could be with her OM and she was the one who started out making undreasonable demands. I, too, wanted my wife and tried everything I could think of to stop the divorce. That wasn't possible. So keep your uninformed judgements such as "repond to someone who actually wants a divorce and doesn't care if you are cold and heartless" to your self. How dare you? Who do you think you are? You think your the only person who has been hurt here? Hurt is hurt and I'm terribly sorry you are hurt. But hurt and legal reality are two completely different things. I gave you the benefit of my experience and was in no way "cold and heartless." You think I'm cold and heartless? Just wait until you're in front of that judge. Then you'll know cold and heartless. ALL they care about is the law and nothing about how hurt you are.

Let me tell you what my lawyer told me. You cannot stop this divorce. You can only accept it. You must accept it, just as all the rest of us who have had a divorce have had a divorce forced on us have had to. That's not beiung cold and hearless, that is being real. The grounds for divorce have NOTHING to do with the law governing property division, alimony or child support and the two issues are considered seperately by they court.

If your lawyer hasn't told you this, I will. If your husband's attorney decides that you are running up the legal fees in order to be vindictive, he can petition the court to make you responisble for all your H's legal expenses. If the court agrees you will find yourself saddled with a hefty bill. This happens all the time.

I can understand that you are mad and hurt at your STBX, and well you should be. But as I was advised by my lawyer and as I have avised everyone here in similar situations: leave your emotions completely out of the divorce settlement, since they will only end up costing myou money and making you make very costly mistakes.

You have already stated that you lawyer has told you that you would not be eligible for alimony: "my lawyer told me i cannot get alimony now becuse i make a few thousand dollars more than my husband."

And offered you two options. Which of these does he actually recommend? Probably neither because he understand you may not force such an agreement on your H and the courts certainly are not going to do so because you earn more money than your H.

I would agree that your H wants this wants this divorce, so he should pay for all expenses associated with it, including your legal expenses. Like you I had thoughts of making my ex pay through the nose for her betrayal. But after I calmed down, I realized that such action lowered me to her level. Two wrongs have never made a right.

I don't care if you get mad with me, eve. And I will state my optinion because YOU ASKED for it. Just because you didn't like my answer, because it wasn't the "poor baby" or "you go girl!" affirmation you wanted to hear, doesn't give you carte blanch to get in a snit. You see, Eve, I most assuredly do care and would rather you get past this legal part and get on with the business of healing as quickly painlessly as possible. You are now in the hardest stage of the divorce process and at a time when hurt hearts make mistakes. Don't you think the uninvolve and experienced advice of someone who's come through the other side might be worth a tad of consideration?

My vote is option #1, and buy disability insurance...everyone who works should have it.

once again i will state:

my lawyer says that i have two choices and both have risks:

1. i can agree to waive all claims now and in the future but if i should become disabled or medically unable to work-i have given up my rights to make a claim.

however....

2. if i do not waive my rights, i could make a claim later BUT SO COULD MY HUSBAND if he becomes disabled or medically unable to work as he most likely would not waive his rights if i do not.

that's the "legal reality"....i DO NOT HAVE TO WAIVE MY FUTURE RIGHTS

he said it was my choice to make.

so i am not "running up my husband's bills" by considering including an option that my lawyer recommended. This is not about making my husband"pay out the nose or being vindictive"...it IS about my legal rights

this is not about trying to stop my husband from getting a divorce. it is about making a decision about my future

and for your information-i have paid my own legal expenses

thanks cam

Suppose you do not waive your rights and end up needing his support. What means do you have to actually collect said support? Ditto for him - could he actually collect from you, as in garnish wages, etc.?

I don't particularly care about your response to the details - I'm just raising the questions I'd ask if it was me - to help assess not only the risk, but also the other side of it.

alimony question

eav,

I see you are getting similar answers on this board.

If your husband signs what you want he is a moron. I woudn't bet on it ever happening.

It appears to me you are looking for a "yes" answer. And are pretty stubborn about it too.

Well I say do #1 and move on with your life. Your depression is no longer your husband's issue to deal with but your own. So seek help for yourself. Accept that the divorce is gonna happen and that the marriage IS over. Because it is.

And quit being so defensive. The people on this board are under no obligation to help or even give a darn about you and your troubles. They do so because they want to help. But first read what you wrote back in just a couple of posts:



[nothing you can say will convince me otherwise ]

[repond to someone who actually wants a divorce and doesn't care if you are cold and heartless]

[i'm trying to watch out for my best interests financially only because this is being forced upon me by my husband and his MOW]

[i don't care if my husband has to spend every penny he had on a lawyer]

[if what he has done causes me to become depressed again-then he should pay if i can't work]


Hey, I make checkurheart seem like a carebear eh? That's cause I tell it like it is and won't spoon feed ya. Ever. But does that make my advice any less viable?

I'm going to wager a guess that all 3 of you are men.

nuf said.....



this was very offensive.

it was judgemental to assume that i would use alimony to be punitive.

i am legally entitled to alimony...as my lawyeer stated...if i become disabled or medically unable to work...i have 9 months left on this separation agreement before my husband can file for divorce...so i do NOT have to waive any rights until then.



and this comment assumes that I am the one asking for a divorce

other people have given similar advice-they didn't say yes....but they did it in a supportive way

when done in a negative and judgemental way....that is not helpful...it's hurtful

people who come here are already hurting and do not need more

thanks for the advice

i made my decision and the papers are signed by my husband...he said he would agree to whatever i wanted either way

i haven't signed yet...not sure if i want this separation agreement because i still want my marriage....

but as i told him...i'm trying to do this

Eve, I don't normally get upset with people on these boards, but you are an excpetion! NOBODY has said anything to you in a judgemental or disrespectful way. The only person who has been judgemental and disrespectful is YOU. You asked for help and people tried to give it to you. When they didn't tell you EXACTLY what you wanted to hear you went off on them. I don't believe you really came here for advice, but only for a little divorce drama. Seems you moved this question from another board because people there weren't any more receptive to your idea. To you, being "negative" means not agreeing with you and telling exactly what you want to hear.

Go talk to your wonderful lawyer about this and leave us alone. We don't want to hear about you money grabbing divorce tactics out of one side of your mouth and how you are trying to save your marriage out of the other.

believe what you'd like to.

the response i recieved was judgemental and it was unkind.

i came here from the other board because i got few responses. not for any other reason. ba109 was about the only person that responed.

if i didn't want to save my marriage i wouldn't be here.

and i accepted everyone's opinion that was given in a kind way...

...others said that i should waive my rights to alimony but they did it in a kind way...they also gave good suggestions such as getting disability insurance.

i had a right to be offended by the statement "when people ask for a divorce they give up thier right for alimony"

i didn't ask for the divorce

and the statment "what is your lawyer really advising you to do?" as if i was lying about what choices he said i had...


and money....you have no idea


...i've offerred to wait the full two years and sell the house splitting the money 50/50 as well as everthing else we have....hoping he'll come back

my husband has no grounds and wants to but a house for him and the OW and her kids...he wanted me to agree to sell the house and he suggested that i quit my job of 15 years and move back home to live with my family...when i said all i have left is my home and job he said he doesn't care where i live or if i have to quit my job and move away to be near my family.

when i refused to sign last time because i told him i would wait and see if he changed his mind because i love him....

he filed for a divorce saying i abandoned him when i was depressed and physically abused his when i smacked him because i found out about the OW....he only withdrew the made up charges becuase i said i would counterclaim adultry...and still i refused to sign....he offerred to take much less money a year ago..but i said NO I WANT YOU NOT THE MONEY

so don't assume that this is about money at all...

no..i don't care what this costs my husband...all the money he spent was on lies

he and his lawyer wrote the separation agreement saying he was "a kind, caring, loving, loyal husband" and that i agreed to the separation.

when i wouldn't sign...he paid even more money to file made up charges...he said he and his lawyer were going to change the charges if i agreed that the separation was voluntary so he caould have his divoce after one year instead of two which is what is required for involuntary.

and still...i haven't signed the agreement.

is it in my financial best interest? yes it is....even my lawyer said my husband must be crazy

have i signed it??? no....

did he again offer to take less money? yes....and i told him that wasn't fair to him....he even offerred to split out income tax return 25/75 in my favor and again i told him that was not fair to him.

so i get to keep my house and my dogs....and i worry that i may end up too depressed to work and need support from him...the law says i'm entitled to this-we're still going to be married for at least 9 months....and my husband said he would agree to it if i would just sign the agreement

and guess what...the statement i put in the agreement said i waived my rights to alimony now and in the future anyway

because...i want my husband back.

Eav
I had to post, along with others have taken the time and effort to respond to your thread. What they've told you is true - granted, it may have been given in a matter-of-fact way, with answers that could have been interpreted as abrupt. Unless you have taken the time to really build relationships here, you probably won't understand where they are coming from. (Although 700+ posts in 45 days shows you're pretty active here some way.)

But we are here to help in whatever way we can. I agree with CheckUrHeart, Tibolt, and Ba...and I'm a woman. Their answers are correct (for as much as they may have known of your own personal situation). Don't take offense with responses - when you start a thread, you need to be ready for whatever kind of responses (or lack thereof) you may get.

thanks avondale

i did come for support ...being answered in an abrupt way is hard to deal with when you are already hurting.

and i did want advice...my lawyer left it up to me...he said one choice was no worse than the other

i guess i just expected to get responses from people who have been through this and know you're hurting and when they give advice...especially if they think it's not something you'd like...they would do it kindly

most people did...including you

you said something not so great to me but in a kind way...which makes it easier to accept and it makes more of an impact

when it's presented that way...it's given more consideration i think