Until 9-11-05, the Subject of this Thread was: Ranting on Some Difficult/Deadlocked Issues

I have changed the subject, to better reflect the direction of my evolution in thinking.

START OF ORIGINAL FIRST POST ON THREAD:

Since I have been married for a while, and the kids are grown, this means that the problems have been of a long standing nature, so I can say some issues are close to deadlocked.

I mentioned to my wife today that I want to plan for my retirement, and some issues may need some discussion and compromise. There are some issues that we can agree to leave to chance. There are some issues on which we have disagreed for some time. So some issues will remain uncompromised, but I suggested we target some issue to work on.

Ranting on some issues:

1. My wife is impulsive in her purchasing, and has a drive to follow her feelings before sh has taken time to find a win-win compromise.

2. Whas purchased furniture for the Living Room that make the house unlivable. Looks like House Beatiful, but lacks function.

3. Since W has made the livingroom dysfunctional, she wants to use the basement for entertaining her friends, relatives and grandchildren. I would prefer she make the living room functional, and let me have the basement for my research projects

4. W wants to spend her time with her church friends, and not do much laundry or cooking or dish washing. But W likes to complain that I don't do enough around the house, although I do my own cooking and dishes and laundry, to a large extent.

5. W likes to be creative in her household chore participation. So I have systems for laundry trash and dishes, which she refuses to try to understand or follow. So I am constantly looking for something she put sompelace else, and having to conduct a search to find her new creative idea of where what I need, now belongs.

6. My Theory is to have stacks of laid out, wrinkle free laundry, except that clean socks and underwear are put in drawers. My theory is that any socks or underwear on the floor, has been worn at lest once, and can go to the laundry, if that color load is being washed. When taking a hamper down stairs, I empty the hamper into a dirty laundry stack, except underwear and socks go in the basement hamper. I have nothing on the floor. I frequently find clothes on the floor between the dirty clothes hamper and the clean clothes stack. It is not always simple to know if the laundry on the floor is clean or dirty. People decide to rush, and clean clothes fall on the floor and are washed again, wasting my time/energy.

6a. I like to keep my papers, books, stored household items, in apple boxes, which have a slide on top, and can be stacked 6 feet high. W hates apple boxes, and spreads her unused items in various manners on top of my apple boxes, and in the aisles between may apple boxes. The value of apple boxes is that they can be quickly unstacked, and temporarily be conveniently stacked in the aisle way. Then the items needed can be retrieved from a lower box, then the boxes in teh aisle can be re-stacked, out of the aisle way. W has made the system more challenging, because first I need to clear her items off the top of my boxes, then I need to clear her stuff out of the aile so I have someplace to stack the aple boxes. W could stop by the Grocery, or use one of my empty apple boxes for her stuff. She usually can't find her stuff, when she does put her stuff in a box, because she fails to securely label the box on both ends. W has been at war with my box system for years. In addition to being on the implusive side of being right-brained.

7. W likes to pamper our college age son, who lives at home. She also likes to complain about the results of his poor roomate skill habits. W undercuts me in any number of ways to Son. I asked her to come up with some approaches to build responsibility, becasue I feel foolish when I get undercut, after imposing some conditon or penalty, to improve room-mate skills. I feel my son should be doing his laundry at a laundromat, and not using the basemente laundry machines. He could fall in love with a young woman doing her washing.

8. I have read posts on this forum, and the principles, and I avoid impatient Love Busters, and try to fulfil Her Needs, and make deposits to the love bank. I try to avoid the independent actions of Love Busters.

9. W feels she has the answers, and refuses to consider counseling. I have a Telephone relationship coach I use to discuss ways to approach problems constructively. W often points out that my religious ideas are somewhat more inclusive than her Church's teachings, and frequently suggests that she knows better about right and wrong.

10. I am feeling that My staying in the home is counterproductive to my son's development, with the intensity and secrecy of my wife's undercutting.

11. I am constantly getting impulsive criticsm, that is not thoughtfully considered before expressing the hurtful ideas. I admit my imperfections, and try to make amends, or improve my habits. W is in denial about most all faults she could improve. So since she is not willing to improve, even for relaxation techiniques, I am having trouble seeing how the current situation can improve very much. Further, there are certain to be challenges for us in the future, and we have no adapatbilty mechanisms, other than my shouldering the load and the blame.

12. I am feeling I need to create some manageble crisis, ( Dobson) to bring these matters to a heightened state of problem solving. I am feeling that my coming home, is unfair, becaus it gives the impression that everything will work out. I am willng to do my part, but I am intersted in enjoying my life for my retirement.

13. W likes to play the jealousy card, so I really don't have a stroung trust in her. I think there may be less betrayal than she tries to threaten, but she is socially worthless, because I don't trust her, and she doesn't listen anyway. In additon, W is too busy with her relatives and friends to spend any social time visiting my friends.

14. If I was single, I could date, and visit my friends, and feel good about myself as a person.

15. I should be fair to her while she is young enough to endear herself to some other man/husband. Maybe somebody else can get her to become a reasonable wife.

These are some of the issues.

Senator H, you are very much like me in that you are a creature of habit and method. You like do do things in ways that make sense to you. Your wife doesn't seem to need nor want such structure. You know what? Your post reads like that of a controller. You sound like a drill sargeant! What I see is that you are trying to change your wife and son by dictating terms to them -- not just in what they do, but how they do it. This isn't (and never will) working, which leads us to items 14 and 15: you are willing to throw your long marriage away for what are (if you are honest with yourself) the most trivial of reasons and are trying to rationalize it. Sounds to me like you've already been working on a "manageable crisis" (rubbish!), which will never work. It also sounds to me as if you are changing long-standing rules for what must appear to your wife as somewhat capricious.

It takes two people to form a deadlock. Which of those two people are you? Sorry, friend, but I see nothing in your post that indicates to me that you understand the spirit of compromise. What I see is someone trying to talk himself into abandoning his wife.

Actual and prospective conversational exchanges:


16. W. I want you to get your boxes out of the basement:

Answer: You do not love me, because a researcher needs research materials, and I am a researcher.

17. W. We need to buy a larger house in the country so you can have more room for your research materials.

Answer: It will do no good to get a larger house because regardless of how large the house, you will not be able to tell your relatives/friends to stay in the living room and don't roam around the rest of the house. We just need to lock off the basement we have, so your relatives can understand not to evaluate that part of the house.

18. SUGGESTION: Why don't we start having College Son doing his laundry at the laundro-mat, instead of messing up teh hallways and basement wtih hhis clothes. We provide him a car to drive with insurance, He can go to the laundro-mat.

W: Oh we can't ask him to do that! HKe has a right to expect to do his laundry in the house. Also I should help him with his laundry, because he is busy with his friends.

Just a flavor of the exchanges.

"16. W. I want you to get your boxes out of the basement:

Answer: You do not love me, because a researcher needs research materials, and I am a researcher."

Say what? Did you "telephone relationship" coach teach you this? If so, you need to dump him/her. Your response is not only a disrespectfule judgement, it does not address the issue and is passive-aggressive.

"17. W. We need to buy a larger house in the country so you can have more room for your research materials."

Here your wife offers a REAL compromise. Maybe it isn't practical, but it is a compromise that the two of you could focus on positively.

But you respond with:

"Answer: It will do no good to get a larger house because regardless of how large the house, you will not be able to tell your relatives/friends to stay in the living room and don't roam around the rest of the house. We just need to lock off the basement we have, so your relatives can understand not to evaluate that part of the house."

Again, disrespectful, completely off the point, and passive-aggressive.

Your number 18 is a tad bizzare. The solution here is to have the son not clutter the house with his laundry, not send him elsewhere to clean it. Besides your suggestion is counter productive in that it will give him a disincentive for doing his laundry, which will only increase the clutter problem. You see problems, but you aren't formulting appropriate solutions. I also don't agree with your wife's solution. He's in the doorway of being a grown man. It's time for him to learn responsibility. When his laundry is done and put away and his room is in order, then and only then can he go be "busy with his friends." Set some house rules. If de doesn't want to follow them, he's grown and he can go live elsewhere.

Senator_H, you are working on the wrong people. You need to work on yourself.

Dear Check Your Heart,

Thank you for your reactions to my post. I have laid out the issues as deadlocks, and not suggested alternative compromises.

I will give your comments some further thought about my being over-controlling. I am not asking for perfect adherence to my ideals, just some ordinary respect for my methods. My son and Wife are oppositional people, and are intent on making me appear wrong. So they constantly needle me by defying my well established systems, deliberately, and often.

So I might appear as a control freak to you. But I am getting tired of it. I was more oppositonal in my youth, and I have worked on my oppositonal tendencies. I have studdied Sutton. I understand their approach to me, but their taking a denial approach to their Oppostional shortcomings is what makes compromise unavailable.

My wife has objected to XXX movies in the marital bedroom. So I have been shopping eBay for some erotic DVD's with bathing suits, or skimpy dress. Show me a compromise, and I am willing to try it.

What are your suggestions for compromises?

What are your suggetions for altenratives to Dobson's managed Crisis of Tough Love?

When I wish to draw attention to a neglected issue, it seems to get their attention when I don't come home on time, or stay out of the house for a day or more. When I call after some time, they seem willing to discuss the issues, for the moment.

Thanks again for your feedback.

Dear Check Your Heart,

I am willing to work on myself. Did you have something specific in mind?

The ideas I have presented here have not been generated with my telephone coach. He works on an on-call basis, so there is no need to dump him. If you have some other coach in mind, please let me know.

I am willing to work to change any of my habits or approaches. What are you suggesting I change?

Your suggestion that I am disrepsectful to my wife is largely inacurate. I have a fairly loving approach to her, and I very seldom lose it. If I do snap at her, I discipline myself to leave the house as immediately as possible.

I am fairly even-handed. My wife is more passive-agressive. Your idea of asking my son to move out of the house indicates an assumption of an ordinarily supportive wife. W is an undrcutting mastermind. I have no more power to ask my son to move out than the man in the moon. W sould be sneaking him in when I was not there, or whatever other sneaky stuff she would do.

My only choice if I want my son out of the house, is for me to move out, stop paying the mortgage and have the house foreclosed. My son understands that power structure, so when I stop showing up at home, he knows he has a problem.

Further, I think he uderstands his mother is Adult ADHD, in denial. So W is handicapped, and refuses to try to improve herself. So I may not be the ideal husband in every respect, but I manage the bills, car repairs, household maintenance, that are challenging for an ADHD disorganized person to handle. So if I dump his mother, he is aware that he will have some more burdens/responsiblitities to take car of her and himself.

Your comments warrant furthter digestion.

Thanks again.

Senator, I am like you in that I have a way I do everything. It works for me. But my wife had completely different ways of doing most things, some of which I did not approve. Yet, I had no right to approve or disapprove; she didn't work for me. Did I try to change her ways? No, I let her do things the way she thought best, while doing things the way I thought best. It has to be this way. There cannot be a rule maker and a rule follower in a marriage. If I couldn't live with the way my wife did something, I didn't nag her about it, but assumed that chore myself. But most of the time, it really didn't matter how it got done as long as it got done. In the end analysis, there were far more important issues in life to which I needed to devote my energies.

I know little to nothing of this Dobson person. I do know that these people are publishing one-size-fits-all books, advising people to do things that should never be done without the assistance of a trained professional in a controlled environment and within the context of a larger comprehensive therapeutic plan with well defined goals. You are nowhere near that. Stay out of the psychology/self-help section of the book store and leave such things to people who have training in these methods.

My alternative suggestion is that you start seeing a psychotherapist. You yourself just admitted that you've struggled with oppostional disorder and I do not believe you've made as much progress as you think. Or you are regressing into old behaviors. So my making recommendations for compromise to you would be futile. Everything you have written today evidences that you are not seeking compromise at all, but only stonewalling. You are opposing your wife and son at every front.

I want you to very carefully consider this:

"When I wish to draw attention to a neglected issue, it seems to get their attention when I don't come home on time, or stay out of the house for a day or more. When I call after some time, they seem willing to discuss the issues, for the moment."

Now think about this very carefully. Is this behavior normal? Is it not manipulative? Not text-book passive-aggressive? Not over-the-top oppositional? Can it ever acheive the goal you seek? Can you even succinctly state what you really want/need in three sentences or less? This is a major red flag. You must get some professional help. Put your percieved marital problems on hold for awhile. You have some work to do on yourself before you can even hope to correct any problems in your marriage.

"Your suggestion that I am disrepsectful to my wife is largely inacurate."

Sorry, Senator_H, but you are just flat out wrong. Your response:

"You do not love me, because a researcher needs research materials, and I am a researcher."

IS a resrespectful judgement. Why:

1. It completely ignores what she actually said.
2. You are telling her how SHE feels. You never have the right to do this with anyone.
3. You are trying to guilt her into doing what you want without regard to what she wants.

"Further, I think he uderstands his mother is Adult ADHD, in denial."

Have you asked him what he understands or is this another case where you've decided what he should understand. Has your wife actually been diagnosed with AADHD by someone qualified to makes such a diagnosis (most primary care physicians are not). Or have you come to this conclusion yourself after something you've read in a self-help book? You see, real AADHD is a very rare disorder, with an actualized incidence much lower than the number of people being treated for it.

Neither I or anyone else here is qualified to give you the help you need, Senator_H. I hope you will take my advice and make an appointment with a psychotherapist or psychiatrist at your earliest opportunity.

Dear Check Your Heart,

Thank you for your responses.

It will take me some time to adequately address all the nuances of the questions you have raised.

Sometimes, I will read a post, and have a strong feeling of how the poster should do things differenetly than how they are headed. I will write a post to the thread starter, and suggest alternative approaches, and raise questions. But it is my feeling that the person should do things differently that often stirs me to write an answering post to a thread. It is the idea and feeling taht the thread starter ismissing some options, or failing to give adequatre importance to an issue, or in denial about some aspect of their reality.

Your questions are therapeutic for me, as they will stimulate me to review assumptions underlying my approach to the related situations.

Hopefully, you have received therapeutic benefit from explaining to me where I am mistaken, raising questions and making suggestions. Your belief taht only a therapist can help me, and dno one on the board can be of any service tome, is a concept with which I must take strong exception. Hopefull you will derive a therapeutic benefit from a better understanding of your own approaches to problems, as thoughts of the thread come to mind as you are engaged in decision making processes.

As we debate or argue our ideas, each of us will feel that the other person is mistaken. As we discuss the issues, we both may gain a better understanding, and make soem positive changes in our approaches.

One reason I started this trhread was for a Rant, to get my feelings expressed, so that I might examine the strengths and underpinnings of the emotions I feel, and the influence of the feelings on my approaches to problems. I may experience growth and development, just by ranting out my feelings, and re-reading the intensities to find better problem solving strategies.

You seemed to express the belief that counseling is my only workable option. That may may be accurate. I have a medical plan that helps pay for counseling. I could meet with a counselor who has met with my wife and daughter. What goals would you suggest for therapy?

But I have not arrived at the conclusion that Counseling is my only option, at this moment. I will try to address more of your questions, as the process of answering your questions will be thought provoking, and possibly therapeutic for me.

One difference may be different approach that you and I are taking. I am searching for a Tough Love Approach, as descibed in the Dobson book. I sense taht you are more advocating an UNCONDITIONAL LOVE approach, for which there is a good book, whose author, I don't have noted down.

Certainly many people use Unditional Love as an approach many people use, and have much success with it. I myself use, and advocate, unconditonal love wherever possible, and at all times when a managed crisis approach is not being used. Perhaps your questions will lead me to a better mix of Unconditional and Conditional Love.

You have suggested that I am a control freak. I try to be aware when I am placing high expectations of compliance on others.

But you said that you had no right to ask your wife to changfe her ways of doing thins to accommodate your way of doing things. It was your decision to say nothing, and let your wife continue being inconsiderate to you. I feel your refusing to speak up may be a denial of an urge to control. What to you think?

Tough Love speaks of a manageble crisis, where thngs come to a point of difficulty, so that peole are highly motivated to discuss and resolve issue. It is a motivational strategy for Movement in negotiation. Have you ever crfeated a difficult situation? Are ther times you wish you had been abale to better hightlight a problem that was bothering you? Ideas?

Added 9-3-05
ADHD:
I failed to perceive a particular constructive suggestion you were drivng toward with your comments about my expression of ideas that my wife may have some ADHD tendencies. You seemed to question my knowledge and judgement regarding evaluating ADHD tendencies, and in fashioning coping mechanisms for being married to a person whith ADHD tendencies.

I searched the Other Web Sites section of the MB forum, on the four last categories on the MB Forum index, and found no references for ADHD resources. So I have added a New Thread post, with ADHD and ODD references.

You do not claim yourself to be familiar with the problems of ADHD, except that the diagnosis of ADHD is sometimes thought to be over-broadly applied by medical professionals, for the purpose of justifying prescribing perscription drugs, to assist individuals in personal behavior problems.

I am not opposed to W getting on meds. I think her problems are not so severe, that the meds, themselves, would probably intorduce as many new problems, as might hope to be solved, of the original problems.

I am inrerested in evaluating the ADHD tendencies of my wife, as I plan for my retirement. Will I be happier Single? My wife drives me nuts with her impulsive, thoughtless comments, and sporadic inconsistent roomate chore system anamolies. But more that inconsistency, is the OPPOSITIONAL element, in which W deliberately finds ways to make me wrong, and express a hostility toward my constructive efforts, and my occasional inconsistency in my chore participation.

There are a number of posts on this board about ADHD, and I have read some. There are some contributors who have some helpful expertise in dealing with the problems of ADHD. So I would challenge your assertion that I could not find help with ADHD problems on the MB Board. I could, and might, start another thread, defining my problems in terms of ADHD/ODD and see what responses I received. I will give the references I gave on the Other Web Sites Section, and there are Links to other websites, from CHADD, that offer help with ADHD evaluation and coping, for anyone with further interests:


http://www.chadd.org

Children and Adults with Attention Deficeit Disorder, CHADD
Ther is a $45 yearly membership fee to particpate in the CHADD Discussion Forum

http://www.docspeak.com

Dr. James Sutton, ODD Expert on Oppositonal Defiant Disorder.


Thanks again.

Rant Continuing:

My wife is too easily influenced by the optinions/ideas of others. Whether her relatives, church members or her children, (Now Grown, almost)

So one of my marital leadership functions, turns out to be getting my wife in touch with her priorities. Whe W takes on the opions and ideas suggested by others, and impulsively acts upon these ideas, as INDEPENDENT ACTIONS, the marriage suffers.

Every few weeks W gets off on some tangent, and I listen and aske questions and try to lead her back to her own sense of priorites.

W needs me as her book-keeper, gardner, handyman, auto repair coordinator, House Painter, Plumber, waste basket tgrashmanager, Laundry Attendant, tax accountant, medical advisor, occasional nurse, and manservant. And for her Son, (also Our Son), Dish Rinser, Laundry Attendent, Sock/underwear drawer manager, Coach for College courses, Auto Repair Coordinator, occasional Bill Payer, Trash Attendent, Emergency Loan Manager, etc.

So when someone comes up with an idea that W create a situation which commands a new role for me, such as furniture assembler for wife's nieces, tghen the burden becomes inconsderate and overbearing.

Today W said she was unahappy because the living room and dining room have dysfunctional furniture, and W wants me to give up more of the basements so she can entertain her church group. I tole her I want to liste to her fore 10 minutes when I get home, but that I want to have a pleasant evening, and I want to put the concerns aside, after I listen to her ideas. I asked her to think of every thing she wants to say, so I can hear it all in 10 minutes, or so.

SHORTLY BEFORE RETIREMENT: This should be a period of time when a woman is investing in the man she feels will be the one to take care of her in sickness. Joy in the marital bedroom now should be building deposits in the Retirement Reserve.

MAKE WRONG APPROACHES:
W feels like she has the answers, so when we disgree, she takes independent action, rather than trying to work things out.



BAD HABITS:
W has a habit of making statements taht indicate she is right and I am wrong. This is discuraging, undercutting, and fails to build up her her Retirement Reserve. W says such make-wrong statements, "You left the light on", or "Your beliefs are not going to get you to heaven"






Other Approaches?

Imaginary Ranting Coversation Exchanges:


18 W: I am upset that you want to use the basement for reasearch.

ANSWERS: Well I don't feel that I am asking for more than a reaonalbe share of the house, given our respective contributions monetarily and efforts toward upkeep.

When you ask for more than your share, in an area that is important to me, then I feel bushwhacked.

When I feel I am getting ripped off, then I have less energy and enthusiasm to do the things needed to be done, top upkeep my share of the household support, keeping things neat and maintained.

So when you make a selfish demand, then I tend to decrease my cooperation, and then you feel even more deserving of your Selfish Demand.

So how do we approach the problem? How do we structure discussions and negotiations? Are there goals for counseling, for instance to explore options and feelings?

Are you sure you understand the depth of my feelings?

Do you feel you are putting forth as much into the marriage as will give me a feeling of putting more in?

Do you feel shortchanged, and therefore you are less enthralled about keeping up the marriage?

Make-Wrong Statements, W: You Left the Light On:

Answer: You are in the habit of making commenets in the make-wrong construct. That makes me feel bad. I want you to build points with me, not lose points. I kwant yo to change your habit of blurting out make-wrong statments. If you want to have a complaint session, write down your items to discuss, and get permission to discuss my faults, BEFORE you start blurting your ideas.

W: So you don't want me to express my true feelings when I see something is wrong?

ANSWER: What I want yo to do is make a note of what was wrong, then think of everything else that is being done for you by me, and what I am ready to do if you have a setback, and put what is wrong, into the overall context. Then bring up what is wrong, when tehr is a calm, planning time to discuss improving things.

W: You don't like to listen to me talk about Religion.

ANSWER: You talk about religion as if you are right, and everyone else who differes with your ideas, as expressed at the moment, is wrong, and should be disrespected. You use religion to make other people look wrong, and you loodk right. Let me here you talk about religion as if you were uncertain of the correctness of your beliefs.

TO SON: I want to repeat mystanding offer, that I would like to sponsor your moving to your own apartment. I think your mother gets off on tangents, and I would prefer to have some privacy to let her express her ideas, so the I can remind her of the total picture. Yourmothe is easil set into a micro focus, and fais to see the big pictur, and she fees bad in microfocus, and is hard to deal with. I need to get her out of microfocus, more quickly, and your presence slows me down.

REQUEST: Please work on redcuing your habit of making make-wrong statements. If you have someting you want me to change, please make arrangements for a gripe session, prefereably for lunch or dinner out.

REQUEST TO W: Please work on recognizing whtn your are microfocussing, and back off microfocussed poaitoion in hte house. Make an arrangement for a gripe session.

REQUEST TO W:
Please arrange teh living room to accomodate any meeints or classses for church related issues. Please do not ask me to give up the basement for your church people.

REQUEST TO W:
Please try to dicuss issues with taking a villifying approach.








W:

W:



Blessings

As Conversations Came Down:

REQUEST TO COLLEGE SON:
I appologise for some discord in the home. I ordinarily try to have a calm emotional atmospher in the hime, but for now, your mother and I are haveing some emotioonal discussions. Please remember that I have offered to assist you in the expenses of moving out to your own apratment.

Response form Son: Yes I remember.

REQUEST TO SON: The offer to assist you still stands, and I am sitll able to provide you assistance, if you feel you are ready to move out.

REQUEST BY W: I need you to move your research project stuff out of the Basement.

QUESTION: WHY?

REQUEST BY W: So I can have my church friends over and relatives.

QUESTION: If you had bought more functional furniture for the living room and dining room you would not need the basement, would you?

REQUEST BY W: Rage.

Hi Whaler! Sounds like you're making progress in understanding your part of the communication...you seem more openminded. I'm understanding correctly that you've moved out? I'll be back to check on you tomorrow and post more.

MORE PARAPHRASING OF ACTUAL CONVERSATION:

ACCUSATION BY W: You promised to give me the basement, now you are changing your mind?

Answer: I have always given you complete control of the livingroom, dining room and kitchenette. I am feeling that I would like to keep the basement for my research projects, and for my retirement activities.


REQUEST BY W: Since you promised to give me the basement, I passed up an opportunity. Now you are saying that You don't feel like giving me the Basement?

ANSWER: Well I feel you have enough space with the first floor. I gave up the basement for your sister, for several years, when she needed a place to stay. I am not saying I will never give it up, I am just not feeling it is reasonable right now. How did I cause you to pass up an opportunity?

RESPONSE BY W: You don't have to know. The oppportunity is not available right now. I am not doing this alone. The answer seems to be that we should move to a bigger place in the country, and I am not going to be with you when that time comes anyway.

SUGGESTION BY ME: Maybe we have talked enough for right now.

Is there some message between the lines?


MICROFOCUSING:

STETEMENT BY ME: You are not taking into account the time it takes fro me to try to work around your road blocks. You put up objecitons and hurdles, then you wonder why your other projects I am working on for you are behind.

RESPNSE BY W: My setting up difficulties for you, should not mean that my projects get delayed.

ME TO WIFE: Well you are not accounting for the overall effects of your input and decisions, so you are feeling shortchanged.

SON'S ODD:

ME TO SON: You should consider the patterns of ODD, to see if any of your approaches might be partly Oppositional.

To the extent that you have picked up habits of oppostional feeings/actions, you might consider some effort ot change some of those habits.

Blessings

IMAGINARY RANTS FOR CONVERSATION:

QUESTION BY W: You keep saying I am undercutting your authority with our college Son. What do you mean?

RESPONSE BY ME: Well our son does not help out with practically any household chores. I have systems set up, to keep dishes, laundry, trash and clean clothes in reasonable order. You are a creative, right-brain person, and that is why I love you, because you are creative. I am also right brain creative. But I try to discipline myself to do things the left-brain way, in an orderly manner, so others can pitch in. Since you are often changing things to a more creative process, Son sees this as disrespect to my sytems, and gives him your support to do nothing. Doing Nothing is the trait of an oppositonal person, as he gets to be lazy, while creating consternation in loved ones.


W: I will try to do better about my make-wrong statements.

RESPONSE BY ME: You need to replace your stements of frustration with the situation. Taking an oppositional stand against my boxes is an expression of your frustration. You are frustrated that the box system is not completely easy and perfect. So you need to find some expression that will express your frustration, yet not in a make-wrong manner.
maybe:
"I wish I was a 6 year old child again, so I would not have to take care of a house, my mother would handle htings for me."
"I wish I had a reliable servant, who could help me with the chores."
"I wish I had confiDence that I won't need some of the ses things, so I can throw some things away."


REQUEST BY ME: Why don't you find ways to become a super wife? There are some fairly easy things that most other wives don't do for their husbands. So if you find one or two special things to do for me, that sets you apart from others, then that can make a happier marriage, as I will treasure your extra efforts, that we can both recognize as SUPER.


PROBLEM STATEMNT BY ME TO W:
You are a taker,and not interested in my ides. If we had a working ri=elationship, it might be OK that you don't support my ideas. But if I am going to be doing all this giveing, plus getting blocked, on thigns I want to do, then teh value of the marriage is less. Alos, sinc you are in denial, about what h=your faults are, yo are negotiation from a standpoint as if you are 100%, up to 50%.

The rela truth is that you would be in real trouble with a man with normal expataitons of a wife. I understand your shortcomings, and I tryt o accommodate youre foibles. But levft brain peopple and evenmost right brain men, ard not going to understand you, and arfe not going to be able toconstructively have amarriage with you. Youneed to face your limited market value, for another marriage.

You listen to all kinds of women say, "I never do THAT for my husband." Every normal wife has things that she decides to stand up about. The problem is that you take all those statemetns by various women, and add them together, than have a bunch of things you won't do, and you think that is normal. The truth is that successful wives are doing many things for their husbands, whether thay tell you about it or not. So you are in Dream Land.

You are in Dreamnland because you think marriage are different tha;tn they really are, and you do nbot acurately measure how far you fall short of reasonable expectations. Now I feel sorry for you, that you are handicapped, but you are also in denial that you have any faults or bad habits. If you wre wiling to acknowledge some faulst and agree to try to work on lessening their effects, then maybe I could justify trying further.

You Love to Hate me. But I am gettintg tired of being Hated. You are looking to find ways to verbally make me feel wrong, rather than looking for ways to incrfease cooperation.

I had some reservations during our engagement, But I wen throught he marriage, as it would have been embarrassing to cal it off. I tried to make themarriage work, and we had kids. I stayed together to help with hte kids. Now the kids are grown, and the marriage has to stand on its own.





Blessings

Dear Lucks,

Thanks for the reply.

One implication of your post is that I am attempting to leave out some pertinent facts to get more sympathy from our readers/posters. If there are any pertinent aspects of a relationship that I have omitted, please let me know so I can fill in any details.

COUNSELING:

Since my wife is partly under the influence of others, different people at different times, and since this is transitory, teh goal of therapy with my wife could be to have her recognize her inability to say NO.

I had researched a book, and I think that I got the book, from the library, but it did not address my isssues very well. I should probably refresh my reading of that book, and see if any more ideas come up for me.

Blessings

How did I imply such a thing?

Dear Lucks,

Perhaps it was entirely my inference.

I will stay out of the house for a day or so, to let things cool down. I will come to the house at times I know my wife will not be there, if things are rough. I have several places to stay, to spend time out of the home. I am lining up more spaces for more time away from home. It would be nice to have a room or an apartment, so I could have things set up more livably, when I get out of the house.

Blessings and Peace

FURTHER REAL CONVERSATIONS:

MY REQUEST To COLLLEGE SON: You mom said she would be coming home soon. To the extent that you can get your stuff out ot the living room, it would take some pressure off me from your mom,

SON'S REPLY: Have a nice trip.

SH, where is your therepay? I'm still reading you talking about what other people say/do, but little about you. Here's how your interaction with your son SHOULD HAVE GONE:

You: Your mother will be home soon. Go now and get your things out of the living room. I want that room spotless before she arrives.

Son: Have a nice trip.

You: Did you hear me? Get your butt out in that living room and get your things put away. If I have to do it, everything I find goes straight into the trash.

BTW, your statement underminds your wife's parental authority over your son. It also teaches your son to be disrespectful not only to his mother, but to all women.