Senator_H

What is your goal by posting these rants? Are you just blowing off steam and organizing your thoughts to yourself? Or, are you looking for something else?

I've noticed that you are posting on the Divorce/Divorcing boards (I tend to post on the Emotional Needs board but it's really slow today so I'm visiting over here <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ) are you pursuing a divorce? Are you trying to decide if you should?

From what I read, it sounds to me like you have quite a lot of contempt for your wife. Your rants go a bit beyond a traditional DJ and incorporate a large amount of anger or frustration towards her - which is how I arrive at the word 'contempt' by the way.

What do you want to do about the situation? As is often said on these boards: You can't change your spouse - you can only change yourself. So, given that you don't get to choose her behavior, what outcome are you hoping for? Divorce? Are you trying to find some way to make the situation liveable for yourself? Are you just here to organize your thoughts?

By the way, I'm not asking because I'm trying to imply that you're not welcome here if all you want to do is air your thoughts. You are very welcome here for whatever reason. I'm honestly curious because no where in your post did I see an actual question - just lots of descriptions of situations, conversations (actual and roleplayed), etc. I read what you wrote and started to offer feedback when I realized I didn't know what kind of feedback you might want. So, I thought I'd ask. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mys

Dear Check Your Heart,

Thank you for your suggestion of a revised convedratrion with my college son. My challenge is to ask for what I want, in a way that prevents him from arguing back. My son would prefer to argue than to breathe. So I could throttle his neck, and as he was expiring, he would be shaking his finer at me, and trying tomouth words to argue some point or another.

I am thinking more of therapy, and I appreciate your keeping after me about that.

Blessings

Dear My Shae,

Sorry things are slow for Emotional Needs today,


DIVORCE:
My first position has to be ready for divorce. My wife has been threatening divorce and infidelity since our fist year married, some time ago. So I cannot think of marriage to W, without facing the concepts of divorce and infidelity.

I have not made up my mind to get a divorce at this time. I am exploring a new evaluation process for me. How do I want to spend the rest of my life? Since I am old, and my cildren are fairly well grown, it is not a reason to stay together for the children, which used to be a sufficient explnation/justification.

I am posting my Actual and proposed conversations, to allow for feedback. I am posting on the Divorce Section, because I am close to divorce, and need to be ready to divorce. Since I will be threatened by W with divorce, I need to be able to think and speak in terms of Divorce.

Ideally, I would like to think of being married, and finding ways to please my wife, and finding ways to enjoy my marriage. That would be appropriate for the Emotional Needs Section.

You may have some positive, angry or sympathetic reaction to my rants or conversations, so I welcome anyu reactions or ideas taht may occur to anyone. I try to give the courtesey of a polite reply to anyone who writes.

My most important category of ideas is the Calm Planning Projecting Phrases, which I will attempt in a new post to this thread.

Thanks

My Calm Planning Projecting Phrases for W:

1. You have a fine quality of not being jealous of other women or how they look, or the attirbutes they have. You are self-confident in your own self. Many women are self-conscious when the ideas of qualites of another woman come up in discussion. Your Gift, Your Strength, is that you are confident in yourself, regardless of the appearance of posessions of some other woman. Let us rejoice in your self-confidence.

2. You are becoming aware of the time that your roadblocks take away from productive time for my attention to improving the marriage. You understand that when you say "Don't do This", or "Stop Doing That," that I strive to please you in obedience to you. But the drive for the goal I was working toward, when you said, "Don't..." or "Stop..." continues, but gets detoured to a longer route. So we will have a signal, whenever you use blocking words or phrase, that I will give you the feedback, "Do you intend to have me spend more time to work around your roadblock?" means that you are setting up a roadblock, but I am still going to try to get to where you stopped me from, but it is just going to take me longer.

3. UNDERCUTTING: You are criticizing my plan for building responsibility for our College son. Are you sure you have a plan that is better than mine? If you are unable to tell me your better plan, than you should follow my plan.

4. Make-Wrong: We will have a signal that I will give you feedback when you are making a hurtful remark concerning some principle of ethics, that appears to make me wrong. My code words will be, "Would you like to take a little time to explain more fully the ethics involved in that, or can we put those concepts aside for right now?"

5. Support of Ideas: So I would like you to avoid contradicting my ideas, because I am actually looking for more support, but at least a marriage should have sufficient sensitivity to each other's firmly held positions, that we can be considerate to each other. So the code words for your cutting me down, will be, "I must have stepped on your toes. I must have spoken against one of your deeply held beliefs. I must have hurt you, because you are hurting me sicerely. Do you have further to go to get back even with me?"

6. Micro-focusing: You sometimes speak with great intensity about a project in which you are sincerely intersted. Sometimes, I have bigger picture issues to work on, and cannot get to the project you are focusing on, during the time you are interested. My phrase will be, "So you want me to move out now, becasue without that project A, the marriage is worthless."

I'll clean up the typos later. Sorry.

Ideas?

Senator_H


No worries. It wasn't a complaint, it was an introduction, explanation, and observation all rolled into one.


Ok. What do you mean by being ready for divorce? Do you mean emotionally or in a more strategic, legal sense?


You're evaluating whether or not you want to remain married?


What type of feedback are you looking for? I'm an emotional/intuitive person as opposed to a logical/thinker type. Are you looking for how your words would affect me? What I "hear" when you say them - how I interpret them and how I'd reply? Or, are you looking for specific feedback related to the MB system (DJ's, SD's, etc)? Actually, I suspect you might say you're looking for what you can get - my question is really supposed to be: What specific type of feedback, if you have a preference, would you find the most beneficial?



Based on this I'll give you my gut reaction to your phrases. I'm going to pretend that I'm your wife and you're saying these things to me. Please understand that I'm not trying to be rude to you, instead I'm trying to give you my gut level instinctive responses to the phrases you're using so that you can consider if you want to change them or, at the very least, be prepared for a certain amount of push back since you stated earlier that your wife tends to be more 'right brained' or possibly emotional/intuitive (like me).


I think you just tried to be complimentary but somehow the way that is phrased 'feels' funny to me. It's almost like a back handed compliment but I'm not sure why I think so. Wait! Yes, I am. I suppose it's the idea that compared to other women I SHOULD be jealous or wishful of things they have but I'm not and that's a good quality. Or, to put it more clearly, it seems to be suggesting that compared to other women I am lacking. Why can't I just be self confident because I have a lot of positive attributes that other women don't have?


This sounds to me as though you want to punish me by 'taking longer' whenever I give you feed back. Are you attempting to make it unsafe for me to express unhappiness? By labeling my feedback, issues, or complaints as "roadblocks", I feel as though you are dismissing my attempts to communicate honestly with you as mean spirited attempts to victimize you. Why should I be honest with you if every time I tell you I don't like something, you get to be a victim? I don't lke being put in a position of somehow harrassing you with the truth.

The core message I'm receiving here is that you don't want to hear the truth from me because you don't care about my feelings. Worse than that, you fully intend to punish me as much as possible anytime I slip up and share my feelings with you.


I don't want to follow your plan. I doubt that any plan I have would meet your requirements. Why can't we work with your plan and CHANGE it so that I can be enthusiastic about it too? Why do I have to start all over from scratch making a plan? It sounds to me like you don't want to make a solution so much as you want the opportunity to 'get me back' by critizing whatever I come up with.


I honestly have no idea what to remark here. I'm not sure what you mean by a 'make wrong' statement.


I don't like your code words because they contain an accusation that, once again, I am maliciously trying to get back even with you. Do you realize that your very code words contain a 'get even' phrase by that implication? What if I don't agree with your ideas? How can I express that without contradicting you?


Once again, your phrase is a blatant attack on my character. You're suggesting that I am saying the marriage is worthless all the while you want me to give you permission to act as though what is important to me is less important to you than what you want to do. You have 'bigger picture' issues to work with sounds like you are telling me not to bother you with things that are important in my life. You're too busy for me. It feels like you're saying that I'm not important enough for you to take the time to talk with or focus on. Then, if I complain honestly about how I feel, you want to be able to put words in my mouth and threaten me with moving out. This solution is simply unacceptable.

Senator_H, most of these phrases are full of DJ's (telling your wife how she feels instead of asking her) and selfish demands (telling your wife you're going to treat her insensitively as punishment for her 'bad behavior').

I just don't see these phrases doing any amount of calming. In fact, I see them doing quite the opposite. You said that divorce is not your first choice. I believe you. May I suggest that you read up on Disrespectful Judgements and Selfish Demands and consider revising your phrasing? The recommended phrasing for honest communication is usually "I feel <feeling> when <something> happens." How do you feel about using that type of phrasing?

Mys

Dear My Schae,

Than you for your feedback. I will read Disrespectul Judgements again.

I used #1 about jealousy, Last night, and W seemed to respond positively. The wording is a first draft of planning phrases, and I will try to refine the words/ideas. I orderd a DVD lecture on NLP last night. I think I need a better approach, and I need to understand how to like the phrses to W's ideas.

I will give more thought to your ideas, as I get other things done.

Thanks again.

Senator H, I have read through your posts, and I don't want to hurt your feelings.....but I'm afraid that if you actually talk the way you write...well, if I were your wife, my eyes would have glazed over a long time ago.

Now, I was thinking about how her saying, "You left the light on" could be a "make-wrong" statement. I suppose that it would depend on the context in which she made the statement.

For instance, if she was sitting on the couch, watching T.V., and watched you leave the other room, and waited until you were seating in your nice, comfy chair and THEN said, "You left the light on" in a nasty tone of voice, I suppose that could be considered a "make-wrong" statement.

However, if you were just entering the room, her commenting that "You left the light on" would be nothing more than a reminder that you forgot to turn off the light.



If I were your wife, I would definitely be examining your statement (providing my eyes hadn't completely glazed over) to make sure there wasn't a "dig" at me in there.

Why not try something entirely different, which basically says the same thing? For instance:

"You know, honey, one of the things I love about you is your self-confidence and strength of character. I notice that a lot of women seem to be jealous of what other women have, and I'm so glad that you are not like those women." This should be followed by a hug and a kiss, or even a caressing of her cheek.

Oh, and I agree that you should have told your son to get his crap up or you would throw it in the trash. Actually, I think I would have thrown it out into the yard, with him following right behind it for his fresh mouth. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

SH, different people here are telling you the SAME things over and over and over and you aren't listening. Rather you just keep on with the same behavior that is causing you so much trouble in your life. So one has to ask: why you are here asking for advice? You don't seem to really want it.

You have some emotional problems for which you need to get the assistance of a mental health professional. I urge you once again to do this. Until you do, nothing you read here and nothing anyone tells you is going to make a bit of difference. Again, you are not working on the right person: you.

Dear Lady Clueless,

Thanks for your alternative approach suggestions.

I am looking for alternatives, and the process is not as rapid as I would tlike for my own shifting to a more persuasive form of advocating positive habit changes in family members.

I am seeking ways to cahnge annoying bad habits for my son and my wife. When my son moves in with a lover, he will be more likely to be happy, if he has mastered better roomatee habits of cleaning up.

If my wife improve her annoying bad habits, then she will be a better lover for the next guy after I give up and dump her. At the momen I am stil trying. I am not abusive about my requests for improvements in bad habits. Neith my son nor my wife tak the positon that their habits are good. I am just trying to be a better coach and partner.

Blessings

Dear Check Your Heart,

My curent goals for self-improvement are to find more effective wording, phrseing and aproaches to request family members to improve their roomate skill and habits.

This could be done in therapy, and I am getting closer to making arrangements to make Therapy happen, at lest for myself. Therapy for me is important, if for on other reason, than to set an example for others, whom I personally believe need help with having better roomate skill habits and impulse control.

I mentioned in a post on this thread a week or so ago, that I had ordered an NLP DVD that might give me layers of meaning from which to structure requests. Are you familiar with Neuro Linguistic Programming? Which authors do you like? Any tapes/DVD's? I hae not yet watched the DVD, but there are other materials available.

Thanks for keeping after me.

When I post advice to someone, I will often include a personal example from my own struggles. Anything you would care to share about how you are doing? I did read afew of your other posts, and you are apparently recently separated? How is that going?

Do you have any annoying habits that you are trying to improve? Any of your lovers ever had any annoying habits? Did you ever try to assist anyone in changing their annoying bad habits? Any tips for me from your experience?

Blessings

RAMBLINGS FOR IMAGINARY SELF-TALK:

I have given rants, actual conversations, and imaginary converstions. Self-Talk is important, as some ideas/issues are offensive or non-productive to mention to others. Yet the ideas for an underpinning of my sanity.

Since I am threatened at least indirectly with Adultery by W, I need to have some positive thoughts about thos issues, botrh for mirroring ideas in an unspoken manner, and to keep my own sanity.

"Yes dear, you are apparently speaking of stepping out on me. You don't muse those exact words, but your meaning and threatening manner are fairly clear to me. I sometimes respond to threats as a challenge, so it would be better to change your approach."

"If you do step out on me, this will give me increased poweris sevaral respects. First, I am not giving yuo permission to go ahead, so you are legally cokmmitteing the sin and crime of Adultery, as I have not given yhou my permission. Further I am maintaining my honor to the marriage, so you have no failure for me by which to justify your cheating."

Perahps Real Talk: "And what failure of mine do you feel justifies your thinking of cheating?"

If you do cheat on me, the power shifts to me, as I have never forgiven yhou for any of your cheating, as you have never asked for forgiveness. You have never admitted any wrong doing to me, and asked for foreginess, followed by a reaffirmation of the marriage.

So if you do cheat some more, and do not admit all cheating, then you are unforgiven.

Yourpower diminishes if you threaten or cheat, because I do not threaten or cheat. So you are wrong, and I am righteous. Therefore I can smile upon you with distain and Pity. Certainly I feel a tinge of shame, anger and self-reprisal for myself. But I know that I am righteous, and the you are unwilling to disciplen your self to handle your impulses. Even though you know full well you are unable to handle your impulses and have inadequate skills for making your own judgements, and are subject to the wihims of others, You refuse to participate in therapy or other self-improvement systems or programs, to better your skills.

I know taht I am beintg good, and that I am working to become better. Therfore I have no shame, from your shameful beaviour, threats and impulses.

Ideas?

Senator,

I'm also from the EN boards but wondered in here today to do some reading.

In reading you thread I have to say there are alot of things that have been spinning through my mind. You seem to be open to thoughts and opinions from anyone so I would like to share mine.

1. I didn't feel any emotion from you whatsoever in any of your posts.

2. The comments you make about your wife are very VERY disrespectful. In reading your words I saw nothing but disrepect and contempt. There was nothing that said the woman has a working brain. She sounds stupid. Really stupid and incapable.

3. You accuse her of "wrong-making" words towards you yet your posts are full of how wrong she is. Your dialogs show her how wrong she is in so many ways.

4. If she doesn't agree with you, you consider her opinions thoughts and words to be ones of munipulation of you, hatred, revenge, or stonewalling.

5. Your wife has lots of habits that annoy you. She should change those habits and behaviors to suit you because if she doesn't think or do things the way you do so she is obviously wrong.

6. Since your wife and son are individuals with thier own way of doing things and since those ways aren't how you believe they should be done you have labeled them with personality disorders. Cause you read up about them? (hint: Many people fit many traits in various personality disorders. I could name off a few I see in you but I'm not a trained professional, I read about them but I am in no position to label you.)

7. Ok, I will mention one so that you can read up on it. Passive agressive. Your posts scream to me of passive aggressive/control issues.

8. You have taken time to write out some dialogs between you and your W and son. What I don't understand is why you have decided to do the role playing siches? You are projecting your perseptions, your thoughts and words on them. Not actually words they will say or what they even may be thinking. It's one thing to say I think W will react in this way or with this attitude but a whole different deal when you actually are making up dialog. You don't get to decide how a person feels. And you don't get to put words in thier mouth.

I also think when/if you actually have those convo's you already have them mapped out and answered for them so no matter what they say you won't actually hear what they are saying. This last post about the cheating thing baffles me, I have to admit. It also frightens me. You make up dialog and go on about unforgiveness and who has the power now etc.

9. You talk of her love and care for your grown son as sillyness. I agree, the boy should be responsible for himself but I also wonder if she isn't just being a good mom and loving her son.

10. Your son is of age when most would want to move out and he has received and offer from you for support to do that. Why the heck wouldn't he? The three conclusion I would draw from that:

a) He is there to protect his mother from you.

b) He is under your thumb and rule now. If he moves and you are funding it he will still be under your control. Sounds like a lose/lose for him so why not just stay.

c) You haven't raised a son who believes that he is capable of making it on his own or to make his own decisions. From the way you have described your son it doesn't sound like you think he's got much between the ears either so why would he think any differently? And you think he has a behavior disorder too? Could it be he is young and some things aren't that important to him? I haven't met a teenager or young adult yet that had the wisdom of life and experience. He's trying to grow up and find his way and find his own self and you are telling him he has a disorder? I think maybe they call it being a kid. Give him time to grow up and be a man. In the meantime, all you can do is set boundaries and keep them.

11) I would suggest reading up about personality types. Not disorders but types. People are wired differently. People need different things to sustain them and to make life manageble. As difficult it is for you to deal with them think how hard it is for them to deal with you!! Study the personalities and instead of asking them to be you, enjoy what makes them, them. Find ways to be flexible together to deal with these things. They aren't a hinderance they are a challenge! They are not wrong but different.

12) So the wife makes threats? Sounds like you both do. Could it be she is desparate to get through to you and talk to you and a threat comes out of desparation and frustration? Maybe she could use some emotion from you instead of lists and rules?

13) I do think some form of couseling would be very beneficial to you. I hope you will continue to consider that.

This has been my impression.

Take care,
Symphony

Dear Symphony:

I see very little in your post to help me with Improving Coaching Skills for Changing Spouse's Annoying Habits. I search for Hope that W may change her Annoying Habits, because it is the lack of realistic hope for change, that leads to Divorce.

You challenge me, by asserting that my evaluation of my wife's habits are not annoying or bad. You imply that any other Husband would be happy with the habits displayed by my wife. You offer no suggestions for helping my son to improve his habits,

I do thank you for your taking time to give me your reaction to my situation, based upon reactive bank memories and your past evaulation sequences of causation. You are correct that I do have faults. I am willing to admit my faults, and monitor my behavior, to be ready to put in extra effort to change my annoying habits. Did you have particular habits you feel I should change?

W has complained that I don't come home on time, sometimes not till the next day, depending upon the emphasis I feel is needed. I have found this crteates a context for discussions with W.

It does not sound like you have experience in changing challeneging habits of your own, or of assisting others to change their difficult habits.

One principle often repeated on this board is that you cannot change your spouse, and should primarily focus on changing yourself. I am working on improving my habit-changing coaching skills. This morning, I watched one hour of my $30 NLP DVD, with my Telephone coach, listening with me. Last night I bid on 5 more NLP DVD's on eBay, and won the Auction, and paid with Pay Pal. I am considering buying the Bandler 7 DVD Therapeutic NLP disk set. I found NLP forums and web sites.

Perhaps I will fail to help my college son and wife develop better habits. I talked to my wife last night, about the goal of having our son improve his habits, and that he needed a good self image, and that his opinion of his father was an important component of his feelings about himself, and suggested a goal to my wife, that she should avoid make-wrong statements about me, or to me, when son was around. W seemed to accept the sequence of stopping her habit of slamming me, with the aim of getting Son some better habits.

I could disclose various diagnosis Label concepts that Psychologists and Psychiatrists have found for me. But none of those lables are helpful in evaluating my level of Habit Changing Coaching Skills. For now, I have a course of self-improvement for myself, and hope I will become more successfully persuasive in assisting W and College Son to change some of their annoyiong habtis.

Are you willing to plan goals and suggest sequences for planning options?

I would further encourage other people who wish their spouses would change some habits, to seek a path for coaching Habit Change, such as NLP.

Blessings

HABIT CHANGING COACHING IMAGINARY TALK


Goals: We want College son to develop better habits for picking up the Living Room, Rinsing his dishes, keeping his bathroom clean, helping with the laundry, taking better care of his assigned vehicle.

We want Son to feel good about himself, and to have a good relationship with both his father and his mother. His mother and father should present minimal discord or differences to College Son.

We want the house to be pleasant, and free of discord, so we will have planning sessions for our differences, and keep honesty upfront, and have signals for a need to have a planning session.

We will organinize Planning sessions, so the can be scheduled quickly and converniently, to resolve anyh issues in an up front manner.

I, Husband agree to keep things cuatght up, so that I can be avaialable for a planning session, with more flexibilty, so that deadline crunches donot interfere with Needed Planning Sessions.

Ideas

Senator,

I see you have changed the name of your thread to specify more of what you are looking for. I am not going to offer you dialog suggestions. I don't see that as the core issue here. It doesn't matter what kind of wording I could suggest to you if it isn't something that wouldn't come from you in your current thinking patterns.



I challenged you to look into personality types (not disorders) to find better ways of understanding and communicating with your W. I did not say that your W's habits are not annoying or bad. True, for some they may not be but I in no way said any other H would be ok with them. You are not and that is a valid issue for you. That is something you can work with. More on that later.



Everyone has faults. My point was as much as you are annoyed in your W and S they are probably equally annoyed with you. I admire that you are working towards change in those areas you see fit. I have to wonder if you are understanding/listening to your W and S about what they would like from you.

As for behaviors that I would recommend you changing; I don't really know you and I don't live with you so it is not me you should ask but your "roomates". It's thier opinion that counts. I would suggest that you listen to what they are saying and try to see things from thier perspective.
There is one aspect of behavior that I see and I would hope you would look into:



This may be an effective way to get heard but is it a healthy and productive one? Leaving without W and S knowing where you are (I got that impression)? You are playing on thier worry to whip them into shape. This is a munipulative tactic to get them to listen to you. They aren't able to express how they feel about the sich that made you have to leave because you will use further munipulation to get your way anyway. Do you see what I am saying? I also got the impression that while you had plenty of places to go when you decide to do this you are looking for more so you can do it more frequently or for longer periods? Under no circumstances should a S leave the home with the W or H knowing where they are, who they are with and when they are coming back.



And this is exactly what I am saying. I didn't say a thing about myself yet you made this broad assumption. Based on what? I reacted to you on an emotional level as I read through post after post from you. You and I are very different people. I made assumptions based on the words in your posts. I reacted in a way that an emotional person might react. You've made assumptions about me that you have no right to make and you've twisted many of my words. I wonder if the same thing doesn't happen in your home. Could it be that your W and S react on an emotional level and you are unable to understand them? Instead, you would label them as having psycholigical disorders and/or ignorance?

As for me, I've worked very hard towards growth and change for the last 15 years. I've also moved countries to be with my H and have worked very hard to understand my H and our cultural differences. Also, on changing my conversational style to be better understood by him. I wouldn't be here at MB unless we had problems.

The one thing I have learned and that has been the most beneficial to me is to understand we cannot change others, we can only change ourselves. In changing ourselves we have the posibility that those around us will seek change or we will find a way to accept the things that cannot be changed. If we cannot accept the sich than we have other options.

When I first came here I wanted to find a way to help my H change. What I found was in changing myself I have been able to affect great change in my R.




Great BUT you are not working on change for yourself. You are working on how you can change others. People only change if they want to. You can force alot of people to do things against thier will or even thier best interest. You can manipulate people to do most anything through control, abusive behavior, threats etc. That is not a healthy approach. It's great that you are working on coaching skills. Your coaching skills have no benefit to those who have not asked for your assistance. You force your ability and wisdom on someone and it goes down like a chicken bone. You drive them away.



Senator, I could offer you some goals and options but I don't think they would be of use to you at this time. I don't believe you are yet seeing the big picture. Your quest is to change other people and there is no good advice to offer in doing that. I've learned the great skill of manipulation. I could tell you loads of ways to do that. People are really quite easy. I use manipulation every day on the people around me. I use the tools I have to encourage, not break. To empower, not crush into submission.
My words and actions are powerful. I think the best thing in life we can do is encourage our loved ones to be the best they can be. To support them in thier journey. It is not for me to decide who they should be or where there journey should lead. If I decide I cannot take the journey with them then I have the option to leave.

Symphony

Senator,

I do want to address some things on your latest post. If you would rather I not participate in your thread please say so. I will take no offense and I do understand that I am not offering you what you are asking for. Quite opposite in fact, I am asking you to see what you may not be seeing and that may not be of interest to you at this time

I want to address the issue of control with you. You mentioned in an earlier post about giving your W ten minutes to discuss an issue with you. She needed to come to the table with her thoughts and feelings mapped out and organized and she was to stay in her 10 minute time allotment as you have directed.

Do you not see this as control?

She can have her emotions, thoughts, feelings, issues but only when scheduled, and within the scheduled amount of time? It sounds like emotional boot camp to me.





Did you wife ENTHUSIATICALLY agree to these planning sessions (POJA)? Why do you feel the release of normal human emotion must be scheduled and controlled by you?

Idea:

Create a safe and open place for W and S to talk to you. Sack the schedule and time limits. Take the time it needs when it is needed by any party to sit down and discuss O&H feelings and solutions that work for all parties. Let them know that you are available to them when they need you. Stop using manipulation to make them do things your way.

I gotta admit. I am not even that sure that you are for real.

Symphony

Dear Symphony,

You have identified a number of issues which warrant further attention. It will take me some time to address the complexities of some of the issues you raise.

Generally, I deny being controlling, but I am seeking to motivate. I am trying to be sure that I have presented the optiomal motivational concepts for W to follow my ideas, or something closer to my desires, so that I can change from a perspective of being ready to divorce.

Perhaps my motivtional efforts will fail, and W will not change. I will, in the process of studying better motivational, habit changing coaching techniques, become a better person, being able to better usnderstand NLP motivational strategies.

I sincerely thank you for your thought provoking responses.

This is a link to the only other thread on MB that has NLP in the Subject:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubb...94188&an=0&page=0#694188

More Later.

NEGOTIATING SESSION AT LUNCH TODAY:

Wife: You should not come home so late. Why do you delay coming home?

Senator: I don't feel comfortable, because of the make-wrong atmosphere in the house. If you don't like me to come home late, you should come home earlier yourself. Many times I call at 10 or 10:30 PM and you are not home. I call your cellphone, and leave a message, becuse you don't answer. I never hear back from you until you get home at 12 or 1 AM. Whenever you call me, I take the call, or get in touch with you rigth away.

Wife: I feel like getting my own apartment when you don't come home. You have been not coming home too often these days.

Senator: I feel bad when you stay out past when the time when the stores have closed. So now you know how I feel. You should call me if you are going to be out past 10 PM, or at least leave me a message.

Wife: Well even though I don't answer my cell phone, you could call my Mothers house ro my Brother's house, to try to reach me.

Senator: I would feel like even more of a fool, calling up your relatives asking where you are. You should let me know where you will be if you are staying out past 9 or 10 PM, and not going to be answering your cell phone. If you want me to feel more comfortable coming home, then you can work on your habit of expressing your feelings in a make-wrong construct. "You left the bathroom light on ALL day, because it was on when I came home." is make wrong. You could just say, "I found that the bathroom light was on when I came home at 9 PM. I turned it off to save energy."

Wife: Ok I will try to let you know where I am going to be if I stay out past 10 PM, and I will try to stop slamming you personally.

Senator: We should have some signal words, so when you are ragging on me, I can let you know that your selection of words could be better.

Wife: How about, "Your words are sharp and hurtful. I beg you to change from your hurtful manner of expressions."

Senator OK, "Sharp and Beg."

Wife: Now I still want the basement.

Senator: Well I agree you are entitled to the first floor, but the basement is something extra that I am giving up, and you need to find ways to make me feel you are doing something extra for me. Also, the basement takes time, and our daughter has a project for me to do. Please talk to our daughter about her project, so you can be fully aware of what our options and time, are involved. I need to do a day's work at our remote storage site, to make room for more stuff from the baement.

Wife: OK. I will try to do some extra things for you, and I will try to understand your time schedule for making the basement more accessible/presentable for me.

Senator: I would like more honesty about recycling the newspapers. Iwould like you to stack the newspapaers in theliving room that you are going to recycle, and then don't take them out till the morning. Sometimes you take the papers out without giving me a chance to look through to see if there is any article I wanted to save.

Wife: OK I'll stack the newspapers I intend to recycle in the corner of the Living Room. I would like you to talk to our College Son about contributing more to the household chores like rinsing his dishes, putting things away from the table after he eats, his laundry, his belongings in the living room, and taking out the trash.

Senator: It seems to me that our power of persuading College Son to form better habits starts with you and I showing more respect for each other. When I come home late, He senses my disrespect for you. When you move my things around, form where I would like them left, then he understands your disrespect for me. Your make-wrong statements indicate a disrespect for me also. So let us get our respect issues worked out, then we can better help College Son to improve his habits.



Ideas?

Dear Symphony,

In further response to your ideas, I pulled this quote from your second to last post, above:

"You are playing on their worry to whip them into shape. This is a munipulative tactic to get them to listen to you. They aren't able to express how they feel about the sitch that made you have to leave because you will use further munipulation to get your way anyway."

In my Negoitating Post above, I included dialogue that indicates that I do not intend to cause them to worry. They are able to contact me, and I have taken their calls. I think it is a strategic withdrawal of cooperation. It is a withdrawal of a high level of Honor to the marriage, to a lower level of Honor.

I don't have particular results I am enforcing, I am expressing a withdrawal. I am saying, "There is an unpleasant atmosphere in the house, and I don't need to be here. If someone wants to talk, please call me. Otherwise, I will call you sometime later to see if you are interested in talking."

I am willing to entertain ideas for alternative manageable crisis creations, as in Tough Love. But W, nor anyone else has any suggstions for effective alternative manageable crises. W. acceded to try to create a better atmosphere in the house, and work on her habit of putting her ideas in a Make-Wrong format, slamming me.

When I was typing an earlier response to one of your posts, I felt that I was not being as adroitly positive as I usually try for. I thought part of your response was off what I was targeting, and I imagined that if I had a better description in the Subject, that my focus might have been clearer to readers. Ordinariy people don't change the subject in the middle of a thread. I considered starting a new thread, but the Rants earlier in the thread give the background of frustration.

I spoke with my telephone coach today, and he is impatient for the next set of 5 NLP DVD's to arrive. I tried to listen to more of the first DVD, but was too busy incorporating the info from the first half of the NLP DVD.

Here is a Link to an MB Post on Manipulation:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post2783746



Ideas?

Summary of L Michael Hall DVD on NLP

Some parts of life can be planned out, as there is time, and certain things can be reasonabley predicted. Some actions become habitual, and habits can be changed. One key for changing a habit, is Motivation.

Motivation is for an outcome from effort and time. We can plan some of life's predictable and recurring situations. Cause and Effect can be planned. Our behavior is under our control. We can write a script for how we will Act. We can visualize a successful ending for our docu-drama short film.

We can direct other actors, people in our lives, by understanding their motivations, and suggesting a successful ending for their parts, and actions to be taken toward their success.

Silva is envisioning a final result in a single frame. NLP is planning a short film, in which we are principle actors, with a happy ending.

Motivations?