Dear Symphony,

You may be correct in all statements above. I am hoping your are wrong to at least some extent.

I continue to strive to be a better NLP Coach. Maybe even if W changes or improves a few annoying habits, the marriage could still fail. W is apparently carrying on at least one affair, during this time. I try to be pleasant, and politely ask for the changes I have identified that could be helpful to the marriage.

You have not really grasped the oppositional nature of W. Either the cuteness/enchantment of her creativity, nor the frustation of my often being blocked for no good reason.

This process may be taking more energy thaN I am willing to continue to expend, and yeild too few improvments to warrant banking my future upon this marriage. I don't feel that I have yet scratched the surface of the potential of NLP. I have more DVD's to understand that are in the mail. There is a $350.00 DVD set that would probably give me the full power of NLP, that I have not yet purchased. I have not yet searched for, nor found, an NLP mentor.

If I were to decide that my moral limits for applying NLP were not bounded by POJA, The problem of microfocusing and W finding herself enthralled with new ideas every few eeks, might be at an end.

NLP ATTITUDE CHANGE:

I added a section to my last post for Attitude Change, for NLP.

You mentioned that I have used the phrase, that, "If you loved me, you would want to give me the basement." as a controling phrase to my wife. I agree that the phrase could be concidered controlling in some circumstances. But it I have not used the phrase much in the context of the varius discussions of the basement. I feel it more sums up ;the reality of the situation. I have a bare bones marriage. W may love me enough to come home late at night, but she won't come home early and take care of me and the house. Nor does she really care very much about me.

Blessings

Senator,



You can continue on with your NLP and see if you can change enough of your W's habits to make the marriage livable for you. I believe you are fighting an uphill battle that you will not win. You will not succeed in changing your W. If nothing else, she has no reason to change for you seeing the state of your M.

OR

You can embrace the MB principles and concepts which are PROVEN time and again to end affairs and create real love and intimacy within a M.

What do you want? Do you want to control some of W's habits or do you want a real marriage, a partner to enjoy your retirment years with and a best friend to grow old with. With MB you have a chance at that.

Thoughts?

Symphony

Dear Symphony,

I feel that I am applying MB principles, to the fullest extent that I see how. I try for Radical Honesty, Deposits to the Love Bank, Plan A to end an affair, Focusing on W's Needs, which are largely appearances, the attention of listening to her ideas/daily routine concerns, and helping her family. I try to minimize Love Busters and Independent Actions.

Annoying habits are recognized as Love Busters by MB, but MB does not have many strategies for helping a spouse to overcome a bad habit. I have applied POJA, in that W agrees that the habits I have compained of, Make-Wrong and Mico-Focusing are undesirable for her.

NLP provides methods and strategies for habit change. If you feel that NLP contradicts MB principles, I would be interested in further details of your analysis.

Thanks for your insights.
797

Senator,

I am wondering whether you "think" you are minimizing and avoiding LB's but don't realize that you are not. In other words, have you truly made a searching inventory of the LB's you commit? Are you sure you understand your W's EN's and are you sure you are meeting them? Wour W would not have had an A if you were doing everything perfectly. I have seen some pretty nasty LB's come out of you, including many DJ's. Oh, and constant nagging about her habits definitely does not make deposits into her LB.

BB

Dear BB,

A DJ is only disrespectful if the judgement is communicated in an unkind manner. I have discussed the habits that I would like my wife to change, in a loving manner, and without raising her resentment. It takes skill to avoid raising my wife's resentment, because of her oppositional orientation.

But what about compliments? What ideas for compliments come to your mind? W is creative and bubbly. What compliments would you like to hear from a lover?

My wife was 10 Minutes late for work on Friday. W now is projecting to leave at 30 minutes before the hour, rather than 10 minutes befroe the hour.

This morning, I asked W to reflect on any possible anxieties or anxiousness about being more of an open target for comments by coming in early to work, and giving supervisors more time to give her more assignments.

I have not really used my key words, Sharp and Beg, for W making make-wrong statements. W seems to be able to hold off, and I am feeling better about coming home earlier rather than later.

Ideas?

Question for you to ponder - How is her being late for work any of your concern? Does it affect you, personally (aside from getting on your nerves)?

DJ's, no matter whether communicated kindly or not, are just that - DJ's. If you behaved toward me the way you seem to behave toward your W, we'd have parted company LONG ago. You refer to your W's "oppositional nature" - maybe she's oppositional because she feels like you are attacking her all the time - and, yes, no matter how nicely you "think" you say it, its still attacking.

BB

Dear BB,

I'll try to be sensitive. Criticsm hurts.

I use the MB forum for venting, and try to be pleasant and considerate in the home.

I wrote an E-mail to James Sutton, an ODD expert, about my son and NLP. I suggested that an oppositional nature might be a result of inadequate self-assurance. ODD is creating consternation for loved ones.

I suggested that the reason for the less than pleasing behavbior, was deliberately to consciously have an excuse in case a feeling of being unloved by your loved ones occurs. An inability to allow loved one's love to vary or cycle.

W may have some lack of confidence with swings in loving feelings, also. I am not for sure. Habit change takes some detective work to get to the underpinning factors.

Certainly it is good to examine a rescue operation. I am just practicing helping W as a habit changing coach, with her being late to work. I am not emotionally invloved in the process, as it does not really bother me that she is late.

Just that being in a position where a boss can hit on a female employee, like, "I'll tear up this write up for being late, if you ....." I have tried to coach W to keep her pension, because I am so close to dumping her, so many times, that I would feel less guilty about divorcing her if she has more built up in her pension.

Feedback?

I've removed my original response - why bother.

Dear BB,

Wish I had a reason to have a better outlook and attitude. I am just trying what I can see, that might make things better, with the marriage in which I am committed.

Thanks for your efforts.

I did not start this thread with the idea of winning readers over to my point of view. Hopefully, my marriage is more challenging than most. So most readers will therfore have difficulty identifying with my outlook.

Blessings
848

Senator,

"I feel that I am applying MB principles, to the fullest extent that I see how. I try for Radical Honesty, Deposits to the Love Bank, Plan A to end an affair, Focusing on W's Needs, which are largely appearances, the attention of listening to her ideas/daily routine concerns, and helping her family. I try to minimize Love Busters and Independent Actions."

You get an A for effort but the real grade comes from your W. She's the one who can say if you are REALLY fulfilling her needs, making LB deposits and avoiding LB's and DJ's etc etc. It's not what you think may be doing it right. It's her perseption of what you are doing. That is what counts.

Try as you might, your posts are so full of LB's and DJ's that it would be impossible if you didn't take those feelings into your dialog with your W. If you are able to do that then you are not being honest with yourself or your W.

"Annoying habits are recognized as Love Busters by MB, but MB does not have many strategies for helping a spouse to overcome a bad habit."

That's because there is no strategy for you to help your S overcome bad habits. You tell you spouse what you think are bad habits in a most respectful way. You can be supportive and understanding but it's up to your W to decide if she wants to overcome the habit, what the best way to do it is and then to actually do the work. She may find you useful in some ways but ultimately it is up to her. That is why there is no "strategy" at MB. You don't own it, you can't fix it.

"If you feel that NLP contradicts MB principles, I would be interested in further details of your analysis."

I thought I had explained that I had only read briefly about NLP. The bottom line for me is that NLP is a coaching technique and from my understanding a person wants to be coached and for specific reasons. A coach might even address some things with a client and offer help. The individual has to want it. You can't force change.

I don't think there is a "contradiction" with NLP and MB. They are just different programs. Both I believe based on creating change within yourself in various ways to better deal with people, not for changing someone else into what you want. If there was a conflict for me, it would reside with you and your use of any program wherein you use it to change someone else rather than change yourself.

"I have tried to coach W to keep her pension, because I am so close to dumping her, so many times, that I would feel less guilty about divorcing her if she has more built up in her pension."

Do you hear yourself?

"Hopefully, my marriage is more challenging than most. So most readers will therfore have difficulty identifying with my outlook."

And how is it that you are "special"? That your W, your teenage son, your situation is so much worse than everyone elses? That people can't understand cause it's so much worse than what anyone else might have experienced?
Good grief man. I'm sorry to break this to you but you aren't any different than anyone else. Not special, not complex, not at all. Your just like the rest of the world slogging through. Waiting and hoping other people will change to suit us and then life will be grand. Some of us are lucky enough to figure out that we can't change others but we can change ourselves. We get the shot at a continual growth process that will enhance our lives. We make things happen because we change OUR lives not those of the people around us. Sometimes we become stronger so we can move on in our lives (ie Divorce, disassociating from family etc.) sometimes the people around us get on the wagon with us and we grow together. Sometimes you find better ways to cope within your situation. It all comes from within us, not from others.

You are using Plan A to end the affair? I don't believe you and I will tell you why.

1. If you were trying to PLan A and putting in the great effort it takes to end the affair you wouldn't have time to be learning NLP and any other strategy to change W's annoying habit. Her most "annoying habit" I would think would be her affair. That would be one to really put some energy into. MB is proven to stop affairs and recover Marriages. No reason to really look elsewhere.

2. You have an incredible support system here to guide and support you in ending the affair and I don't see that you have used a bit of it. You are using MB to stop W's and S's annoying habits.

3. Plan A is a more than just avoiding LB's and DJ's and filling the love bank. It's also about ending the affair using the tool of exposure. It's about fighting for your M. Not talk of "dumping" the W. Not posting on the divorced/divorcing forum. It's actively working to preserve and repair your marriage. It's about planning for Plan B if necessary as a final step to either end the affair/get W out of her fog of the affair OR healing yourself so that you can get on with your life.

I think your priorities are wack Senator. How can you worry about laundry, room design or apple box organization when your W is sleeping around?

Symphony

Dear Symphony,

I share your passionate feelings about a desire to have my wife to stop sleeping around. However, she is halfway discreet about it. She has been sleeping around for years, with different guys. An undrpinning habit for her infidelity is her inability to say no, and microfousing (Hyper Focusing) not being able to see the bigger picture, and making decisions based upon part of the total picture, rather than being able to add everything up, before she acts. Implusive actions is another factor, poor impulse control.

So I am working on a number of factors that relate to W sleeping around. Where we differ, is that I do not see a way to approach the problem of her sleeping around, directly, as a separte, stand alone, problem. Her philandering is based upon a number of habits/outlooks/attituces, that also make the household unpleasant for me. So I am working on the issues that make the household challenging, but hoping they will help with her behaviour outside the home.

Thanks for your feedback

Okay, I'm going to be really blunt here - your W is sleeping around because you aren't cutting it - get with the program, man. If you were so perfect, she wouldn't be looking elsewhere.

Is this a joke? You've consented to an open marriage, but you're looking for help with coaching your wife to be on time for work and laundry folding techniques?

I cant remember if I've ever picked up on such a concensending tone by a poster. While you may not be sleeping around right now, I see little here for you to be proud about. You really know how to pick your battles... Hope the laundry works out for you - D

Dear BB,

One possibility is that I need substantial self-improvement. One path toward improving myself is to enter counseling again. You are correct in addressing me as "Mr. Perfect", because I have posted as if all the blame belongs to my wife.

However, I remain ready to change. I am coming home earlier. I continue to present information to W about any expenses over $50.00. I try to call her with sweet nothings, and pay attention to her.

The program I am following is to try to identify her fears in realtion to these issues, and help her to overcome her anxieties and denials.

Perhaps you see me as a husband in denal of my many faults. Criticizing my wife, instead of looking inward to correct those habits that make life difficult for my Wife.

Feedback?

Dear Drucilla,

This is not exactly an open marrage. My wife has affairs to inflict punishment upon me, to the extent that she feels a need to relieve her frustration. An Open Marriage, would be both partners deciding not to limit the other's enjoyment. W is more about inflicting pain, rather than enjoying herself.

Nor is W intersted in my enjoying myself. It is true, as far as I have read, that some open marriages discuss their affairs, and in others, the affairs are not discussed, nor directly revealed.

My wife does not openly admit her affairs, nor name names. W allows herself to be caught in her web of lies. I do not give permission for adultery. I don't take the trouble to take photos, or collect evidence for court,but I have never given persmission.

The battles I pick, are not really conflicts. I am battling W's Demons. I am still in the process of identifying her fears and anxities, as related to the issues here. Once identified, I can address confidence and dnial issues

Her self-confidence is one issue, but I need to get more specific.

Ideas?
921

Senator H,

What's with the numbers at the bottom of some of your posts?

Dear AFS,

This is humiliating for me, to explain. This may be an extreme case of ego or self-consciousness. I just figured that there are so many Views on this thread, that People Viewing would slow down or taper off.

Part of the reason I post, is to see if anyone has feedback. If there are 30 views increase for my last post, and no one posted, then I figure my post was not too far out. My memory is not that accurate with numbers, so I just make a note of the number of Views, from the list of threads.

So I can judge how wrong my latest posted concpets might be, based on how many people visited the thread, and what comments were made. I usually like to give others advice on forums. This unusual for me to go on and on about my personal struggles.

Thanks for posting

Feedback?
931

Ironically, all along I suspected no one posted to you because your rants and your thoughts are so radically egotistical, manipulative and controlling. I suspect - and fellow MB-ers, chime in here if I am wrong - people don't know what to say or figure why bother because you just don't want to hear what they have to offer. IMO, you have ALOT of internal work to do before you start casting stones at your wife. I suspect your W's affairs, although wrong because you are married, are fueled by the way you have treated her over the years.

BB

Thank you for answering my question, Senator H.

I have to agree with Brit's Brat above. My impression has been that you aren't really interested in the feedback you ask for. For example, Symphony has posted in length to you, even altering her writing style in an attempt to communicate with you. She asks you questions, yet you don't answer them. You don't address what she has said to you, which makes me wonder if you even read her posts. That in turn puts me off of posting, because I don't like to waste my time.

I don't understand these comments, could you explain a bit further?

Dear BB,

One of the reasons I changed the subject of the thread was to give readers a better concpet of the type of feedback that might be helpful. The subject of the succeeding posts wer about Coaching. Some 6 posts ago, the subject became switched back to the original Rant subject,

It is helpful for me to examine my own role in my unhappiness. I am focusing more on the underlying factors for W's infidelity. Any suggestions of my contributions are welcome.

I try to keep my focus on my improving my coaching skills. If I can become a better coach for my wife and son, I will also become a better coach for myself.

I am trying to identify possible insecurites that might be driving my wife's and son's bad habits. I am trying to understand NLP coaching paths to the WHOLE, big picture. My wife will micro-focus on one issue, and neglegt the overall benefits she receives from being married to me, that she wil lose if we divorce.

Other possible underlying anxieties of W?
Other paths to getting W to look at the whole picture?