Basis your previous response to me, as well as others, you may be your own worst enemy when it comes to relationships.

First, with regard to the issue of whether you are controlling...Look at the title of your thread. "Coaching to Change Spouse's...." Whether a person is trying to control a situation depends upon their expectations for the outcome. If the person's actions are taken in order make another person behave one way or another that is controlling. If the person's actions are taken and, then, the other person has the freedom to react any way they wish, then it is control-free. When you are "helping" your wife and son in an effort to "fix" them, your are being controlling because you are attempting to exercise control over them to do what you want and not letting them decide to do it or is it of their own free will. Unfortunately you are powerless to control other people, places, and things in your life since you can only be fully in control of your internal locus of control and your own thoughts, emotions, and actions. The more you try to exert your will on your wife and son, the harder they will pull away and resent you for it. It is better to become emotionally detached from their behaviors and let them solve them on their own if that is what they choose to do.

In the book, "Controlling People," bestselling author Patricia Evans suggests the following red flags for identifying a controlling person - does this sound like someone you know? Based upon your posts here pertaining to interactions with your wife, son and boss and your responses to other posters, I would have to say, yes....:

Always needs to be right
Tells you who you are and what you think
Implies that you're wrong or inadequate when you don't agree
Is threatened by people different from him- or herself
Feels attacked when questioned
Doesn't seem to really hear or see you

The last "red flag" is very apparent in your responses to other people's posts. People ask you questions and make suggestions but you keep ignoring the "elephant in the room" - you're not hearing what we are all trying to say to you, which is look inward at yourself. In this regard, I would make note of how quickly you dismissed away previous diagnoses of you by healthcare providers (I apologize I did not have the time to go back through your posts to indentify them). Therein may lie your answer.

Just a suggestion but, instead of working on your NLP Coaching skills and focusing your attention on that, why not focus your attention on yourself and your thought processes? Forget controlling others; the only person you can control is yourself.



No, quite actually, any research I need done, I do myself and for those areas in which I am not able to conduct the research myself, I have access to true experts to make inquiry of or from whom to seek assistance...I was asking because I wanted to see how much it confirmed my thoughts regarding your self perception and, I do believe, Cinderella pegged it right when she referenced narcicism ... - perhaps you should research that and see if, perhaps, it has anything to do with your marital problems...maybe ask your wife and son what they think. Now, there's an idea...have you ever sat down with your wife and son and asked them what it is that they perceive to be dysfunctional about your relationship with them and, then , kept completely silent - no response, whatsoever, and fully listened to and taken to heart their reply? Have you ever asked them what it is that YOU are doing that is contributing to the demise of your family unit?

This is the last I will post to you. You don't truly want help - you just want everyone to affirm what you are doing. Sorry, no can do.

BB

Dear Brit's Brat,

Thank you for your ideas.

More than several posters have suggested that I am being overly controlling. The list you give does have some positive indicators for me, but some don't fit.

I am asking for Wife and son to come up with solutions to the houeshold chore problems, for one thing. I have written a set of procedures, which my wife has refused to read. I am not much concerned about what system my wife and College Son utilize to get the dirty dishes from the table, cleaned, dried and back in the cupboards.

There may be many ways to get the dishes cleanded, dried and back in the cupboards. It might be over-controlling if I specified a certain manner for that being accomplished.

Today, a small piece of metal had droped into the garbage grinder and trripped the breaker in the basement. If the garbage grinder is clogged up, then the dish washer will overflow the sink. So I spent a couple hours getting the garbage grinder operational again. In additon to puttng the clean dishes away this morning. Now there is no reason for my son's dirty dishes to be on the kitchen counter, but they are still there. Son has been home since I fixed the Garbage Grinder. The dishwasher remains empty.

I am willing to pitch in. I admit that the current situation is partly my fault. I have been overbearing with wife and son, and W has respnded by undercutting chore routines. Now we are in a re-adjustment phase, where I am asking W to take rsponsibility for handling Son on some of the household chores. I am not being overly punitive about my approach.

People can improve. Marriage is based on the partner being able and willing to adapt to new circumstances. Good Fortune and Reversals of fortune. General improvement should be the ordinary order of a marrage. Divorce occurs when hope for change is insufficient.

Thanks for your input
1691

Laundry Update:

Tonight I reviewed the laundry systems with my wife. There is a designated stack for clean clothes coming out of the drier. I showed her that the stack was in dissaray. I went through the stack, and removed towels and sheets. There are items tha can be folded and placed in the clean laundry closet in the 2nd floor hallway,

I also found some of my wife's clean clothes. She stacked them aside, and put them away.

I pointed out that I had kept my son's underwear and socks in two bottom dresser drawers. I showed her that the underwear drawers were now empty, as I had stopped my assistance some three weeks ago. I suggested that the empty underwear draweeres could be a focal point of coaching.

In going through the clean stack of laundry, we found some my son's underwear and a few of his socks. We put those in his underwear drawers.

We found two of my shirts, which I pu away. I try to remove my items from the clean stack as a matter of course.

We left the clean clothes stack in the basement with only my son's shirts and pants. I suggested that my wife could coach our son to put his sort pants in the short pants stack, the long pants in the long pants stack in the closet in his second floor bedroom. I suggested the wife could coach son to hang up his shirts in his bedroom closet.

Wife wanted to start arguing about my research boxes and reject my ideas on coaching son for his laundry. We went through an argument routine, and she came on board, maybe 10 %.

Wife has no idea how to get son to put his underwear and socks in his underwear drawers. Wife also has many ideas of how the laundry system should be changed. I suggested that W try to get son to work with the system in place. Since W is not getting her clothes and the household items out of the clean stack, she is bolixing the system. Since W is not asking son to take care of his clothes in the clean clothes stack, she is part of the problem. W could set a better example by getting her things out of hte clean clothes stack. I am not claiming perfection, but W has not even been trying.

As we retired to bed, we watched a theraputic process for an oppositional college-age youngster. The movie contained feears of abandonment and other risks in Love and Trust, and opostional defense mechanisms. Wife seemed to agree with the therapy needs for our son.

Progress was made today.
1697

Wow,
My almost 14 year old does most of his own laundry (especially if it's not in the laundry room on the day I do it), and puts it away - if he doesn't have any clean underwear or socks in his drawers, that falls under the category of "not my problem" and he can wear dirty. Some mornings in the past, he had to scramble around to find some, causing him to miss the bus to school, in which case he had to decide to either walk or ride his bike to get there.

Does that make me a bad mom? or one teaching responsibility, consequences, and skills required for him to be self-sufficient some day? I believe the latter.

wow. can't wait to hear how you decide to "make" your grown son put his socks and underwear away.

Dear Shaka,

Fourteen would have been a better age to build better habits.

You have structured natural consequences for your 14 Year Old's neglect of laundry duties. I am trying to reach even-handed strategies with my wife.

Forcing can be done by offering enough carrots and sticks, to get something done one time. Building habits, takes more finesse.

Wayne Sutton's CD's suggest a more positive approach could be productive. I am considering starting a new thread as a contuination of this thread, eintitled: Enticing, Rewarding and Reinforcing Improved Habits.

Certainly Force is the first temptation. But structuring natural consequences to build responsibility is a constructive approach. The temptation to Rescue when a natural consequence occurs, requires Husband-Wife Team work.

Today, my wife told me about two phrases she used in coaching our College Son.

For Laundry, my wife commented to son, "I have gone through the clean clothes stack in front of the Drier, and I found a lot of my clothers. I have taken my clothes ujpstairs and put them away, so it eill be less trouble for you to sort your clothes.

Son did not respond opositionally.

For dishes, my wife said, while in the kitchen, "I have unloaded the dishwasher. In the past, I have put in dishes to dry, that I had hand washed. I am changing, to thinking it is a better idea to run the dishes in the dishwasher. If you will rinse your dishes, and put them in the dishwasher, I will run the dishwasher when it gets full."

Son did not respond oppositionally. Further, son did wash off the dishes he was using, and placed them in the empty dishwasher.

So Wife is improving her coaching skills for building better habits for our oppositional College Son, for today, anyway.

Ideas?
1716

UPDATED TARGETS OF HABITS TO IMPROVE:


Myself:

1. Better coaching skills

2, Better compliments to W.

3. Better recogniton to Son.

Wife:

A. Avoid blocking the Dishwashing system by leaving hand washed dishes overflowing the top rack of hte dishwasher.

B Avoid blocking the Laundry system by removing the upstairs hall hamper, from near son's room.

C. Avoid Bolixing the Clean Laundry pile by the drier, by delaying removing her clothes, and not leaving other's clothes neatly stacked.

D. Avoid blocking rinsing silverware, by removing the silver soaking bowl from near the sink.

E. Practice respect/compliments to H.

F. Coach son on Laundry and dishes.

G. Get son talking, or giving judgements/advice about romance and trust issues.


These Goals have eveloved since the goals sttated near the end of my 10-14-05 Post on this thread:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post2836982

General Negotiating Concepts:

Wife wants to use erattic household chore management as a ploy to have Me move my boxes out of the bedroom and Basement. In addition, Wife is using occasional hints of Adultery and general disrespect as a ploy for more space in the house, and refusing to make son move out. Wife is spending time with her friends at church, and giving my concerns for Son, a low priority.

I am being lazy about managing my research boxes, as a ploy for Wife to do better with houehold chores and resepct.


Ideas?
1731

I would think at some point you would grow tired of the endless games and playing 'tit for tat'.

Symphony

PS. The post you made on 10/27/05 08:49 PM was addressed to me but I was not the author of the post you were replying to. It was BritsBrat.

Dear Symphony,

Thank you for pointing out my incorrectly addressing the 10-27-05 post. I made the correction.

You asked: How long will I be patient to play this game? Salient Question.

I feel that I am becoming a better Lover and better husband, as I attempt to improve my coaching skills.

BUT. Looking over the goals I just set out for my wife's habit improvement; These goals are not to benefit ME.

W creates choas by blocking and bolixing the processes for laundry, dishes, newspapers, etc. Then W conmplains to me, that the systems are not working. But W caused the systems to dysfunction.

This is not about me. I have alsways handled my own laundry, dishes, and newspapers.

So when do we start talking about goals that benefit ME? My ideas?

Ideas?
1759

I don't think someone who is 27 years old can be referred to as a "college age son." He is too old to be living at home. Correct me if I'm wrong on the age.

My suggestion...simple...hire a maid.

Ahh Senator, I feel like a broken record and the thoughts and comments from others who have taken the time to respond to your thread are just echoes of each other. I think the only one not hearing it is you.



This is where its just simply all wrong. You don't get to set goals and make plans for another person. It's as simple as that. Again, dog chasing it's tail. You will NEVER get what you want if you continue on your chosen path. Yes, by using the great power of manipulation you can convince them BUT I only see a few ways it will go.

1. You will be endlessly disappointed and frustrated.

2. You will alienate your W and S.

3. You will eventually break them. They will be within your vision but not a happy person able to express themselves or grow in THIER OWN WAY.



It's all about you Senator. What you want, how you want it, when you want it. All you. In the big picture do newspapers, laundry and dishes really matter? When your last day comes and they are setting you in the ground how do you want to be remembered? The guy who had complete order and control over laundry, dishes and newspapers? The guy who tried to keep his research boxes in order?

The problem with 'college aged son' (come on, really, college aged? he's an adult.) also comes down to you. Let go of him Senator. He isn't you and he will never be you. Bend him and twist him however you would like but he will never be you. He's an adult. Let him take responsibility for himself. Ask him to leave the house and make his own way. You created the problem with him and your focus on his roomate habits keeps you from where your focus should be. Allowing him to be who he is and be an adult. If you let him go you would lose control wouldn't you? You created a world in which your son isn't able to be a man. There is no such thing as a 27 yr old 'college son' living at home in a healthy environment.



When your goals an ideas revolve around YOU making changes that benefit yourself and your family as a whole. When you decide to stop trying to control people like puppets and enjoy them for who they are. When you see your W and S as human beings capable of good things and with minds and goals and thier own way to approach life and it's problems and obsticles. When you stop focusing on mundane things like house chores to make yourself happy. When you let go of the things you can't control and focus on the things you can. That's when Senator. THAT is when.

Symphony

Dear JPH,

Thank you for your comments.

Different people mature at different ages. I refer to my son as College Son, as he is close to finishing a four year degree. About 9 months left. I have a plan to move my son out, if I believe that is the best option.

I have had a maid, early in the marriage, but my wife is overly self-conscious about her privacy. So a maid is not an option for her.

I am trying to make suggestions for improving things. Both for my son to improve his houshold chore habits, and for my wife to improve her coaching Son to improve his habits. I have aslo identified some habits that my wife is changing, to avoid hindering the sequence of dishes and laundry chores.

In the past, my wife sould complain to me about my son's household chore participation, and blame me for his poor perfomrance. Lately, I have been able to show my Wife that she is part of the problem, and my Wife is taking the major responsibility for College Son's household chore habits.

Ideas?

Dear Symphony,

I took the liberty of looking at a thread you started about considering if your Husband was ISTJ, or Aquarius personality type.

Is your husband asking you to change? Is there a particular habit your Husband has asked you to change?

To me, Marriage should be about change.

I asked my wife out to lunch earlier this week. My wife complained that I just criticize her when we go to lunch, or sit down to talk. So you are correct, that asking for change can appear as unpleasant criticsm.

Are there changes your Husband is asking you to make, that you see as criticism? Is your husband careless about expressing any minor feeling of dissatisfaction, that you feel as criticizing?

I let my wife know that talking about changing things could be delayed. If we started talking about improving things, and she no longer wanted to discuss those issues, I was willing to change the subject, anytime.

I talked to my wife this morning about keeeping some parts of our marriage secret. Some parts are just for personal enjoyment, together, and need to be kept secret. She seemed to agree. My wife seems to be limited by proper, public society norms. By keeing secrets, on private matters, then social norms should not constrain fun.

I asked my wife to be on time for work, to give me a better feeling of her being trustworthy. I want to have more trust in the marriage, and her being late to work makes me wonder. You might say that I am being overly-controlling by asking my Wife to be on time for work, but I feel she is having an affair at work.

I want to minimize independent actions. I should do a better job an managing the newspapers over a few days old.

I have to balance improving my skills of coaching, and actaully helping make the house more pleasant. I feel your asessment is at least partly correct, in that I could do more upkeep on the hjome and more organization of my research papers.

Apparently my Wife is giving in to my requests to try to change some of her habits, and this give me confidence that the future with wife can be filled with more changes.

Did you ever read 180 Degree Divorce Busters? That idea is to improve a marriage, make changes. Even random meaningless changes. Make changes, improve the relationship.

Here is a link to Too Much Coffee Man's thread under Negotiating:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000476

Anything you are willing to change in your marriage to make your Husband happier or surprised? Anything your husband is doing, that makes change difficult for you? Anything you can ask your husband to change, that would make change easier for you?

Ideas?

RANTING RAMBLINGS:

So My wife says she feels uncomforable when I ask her to come up with phrases for coach College Son.

She said she feels I am pressuring her for results.

The result I am looking for is increased respect from them. My wife's disrespect is reflected from College Son.

I asked for better respect, and she said she was only going to give me the amount of respect she feels I deserve. This means less than ful ordinary respect for a husband.

One prhase I could use is, "Well then I think the marrriage is in trouoble." or, "It is important for us to recognize that the marriage is in trouble."

The performance of whether my son actually improves his particpation in the household chores is not so important to me. In fact not important at all. The change I am looking for is for W to get on board with coaching the habits, and sto sabataging the develpment of the habits. W winks and smirks, disrespectully, blocking roomate skill habits, and then complains to me, that College Son is leaving the house messy, like that is all my fault/responsibility.

The disrespect has become better, but I feel more progress could be made.

I do not feel comfortable with getting my boxes more organized or with getting ahead on the bills and check ledger. I feel oppositonal, as there is less support than I feel reasonable.

The reason my wife may not want to go to lunch with me, is because she gets agitated, even angry, and then spills out a few details about her secret affair, that she is trying to keep secret. So to avoid giving me more information about her affair, she is avoiding going to Lunch again.

Wife is still sneaky about recycling newspapers independently. Sometimes I have not looked through for all the articles. So today, I picked up the newspapers that were over two days old, and took them to work. Perhaps I can discipline myself to find time at work to look for any articles I may want to save, at work. This will prevent her smirk about my procrastination in reviewing newspapers for recycling.

My wife says she excercises after work, at the facilities at her work. I suspect that is where she carries on her affair. Like Ceasar's wife. Maybe I should sugest/insist on a different gym.


Ideas?
1834

UPDATE CONVERSATION:

Senator's Wife: I feel frustrated, because I asked College Son to pick up his clothes in the living room and he talked back to me. He Said, "I worked 13 hours and now I have schoolwork due, so Give me a Break."
I said, "Well just when you get a chance." I feel like he is not listening and I am not getting any results.

SENATOR: The object I am concerned about is to create an expectation. The result of your comment is not only whether he complies. If you have communicated your request, just let it drop.

My primary concern is increasing respect in the house. If you can reverse years of smirking, by just being united on our expectations of College Son, that is my main objective.

Just have a short, pleasant request phrase, to speak as a comment to College Son. Don't get overly argumentative. Just let it drop. Leaving your request hanging in the air, creates an expectation.

We can work on further comments, to gear toward improved results.

Ideas
1883
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I'll tell you what I did to my daughter when she was 3...I told her if I found that her toys were not put away, I would assume she no longer wanted them and I would throw them away for her. I only had to do that once.

No one gets respect by demanding it. What they'll get in return is resentment. You have to earn your wife's respect.

Unless you are her employer, there's no reason for you to be concerned what time she arrives at work.

Marriage is not change. Marriage is love, friendship, a common goal... It's a partnership not a place to receive instruction from the controlling spouse on how to conduct one's life.

If your wife is resisting meeting you for lunch then your marriage is indeed on its last leg. She can't stand to spend what should be a pleasant hour enjoying each other's company.

In the scope of life and the importance that family and relationships has in life, recycling of newspapers is laughable. Do you think on your deathbed you'll think about unread newspapers? Not unless you're severely mentally impaired. What will be in your thoughts when your time here is almost complete will be your family. Keep this up and your memories will be of time long past because who in their right mind would want to live in such nitpicking insanity.

Dear JPH,

You have packed much wisdom in a short post.

Coversation at Lunch, Yesterday:

SENATOR'S WIFE: I really don't like coming to lunch with you to discuss our problems. You just criticize men, and I feel depressed and pessimistic afterwards. Ther are so many thigns we disagree about, it seems pointless to even start to talk about them.

SENATOR: In the past, we have occasionally gottin too deep into emotionally charged disagreements. I would like to discuss problems with the aim of fininding easy ways to make changes to improve our happiness.

If we start to get to emotionally negative, we shoulld agree to summarize the issue, and leave that issue to be discussed anotehr time. We should agree to be silent until we can change the subject. Before starting to discuss problems and possible changes, we should first agree to be sensitive to issues getting emotional.

SENATOR'S WIFE: Agreed.

Discussion followed.


SENATOR: My first concern is that we have a united fronot on our communicaiton of expectations of household chore help by College Son.

B. That you be aware of the flow of the dishes and laundry, in getting the chores accompolished, and that you work on changing your habits that bolix the flow of hte chores.

C. That you recognize when College Son has failed in a chore, and leave the chore undone, if at all possible. Avoid rescuing Son from his Laziness.

D. Think of other motivating phrases or concepts, by which to encourage Son to develp better habits. "Your Future Wife will appreciate your having a ahbit of pick in up your stuff from the Living Room."

E. The idea is to avoid smirking, in front of Son, in a disrepectful manner when these issues arise.

F. I will remove the daily newspapers from the house, every to or three days, leaving only the last day or two in the home. i will take the newpapers to work, and save any articles I feel I want to read later.


SENATOR'S WIFE: OK That seems productive. Lunch was not so bad after all.

Last Evening, W and I watched an hour of an NLP Training video. I was able to pause the DVD, and explain many of the concepts to her in the first, of seven, Richard Bandler Thereputic NLP Training DVD set.


Consequences and Motivation are not fully worked out. W needs to have a process for enforcing her wishes for College Son to improve his household chore habits, that irritate her. Her previous attempt to blame me for son's laziness, then undercuting my efforts to motivate son's improvements. So now, I am shouldering W with the responsibility fo managing College Son. If she askes for help, I will help. But helping, and having her then turn around and undercut my respect, has happened too often. The level of respect from College son is low.


SENATOR'S RANT:

W is moving real slow and inconsistent, and I really don't feel comfortable in the house with surly Son. So I am spending more time other places. i could be more productive, but I feel oppositional, so I am dragging my feet on several issues, Including neaterizing the basement and bedroom.

Ideas
1930 Views, 11-9-05

As usual you don't listen to what people post to you. Instead of these videos, find a marriage counselor to sort out your problems with communication.

But before that, tell your son to find another place to live. He's way too old to be living at home. You blame your wife for not coaching him to be responsible when you're just as guilty for his immaturity.

I suspect you leave home to punish them for not behaving as you dictate but I suspect they're relieved that the stress you bring into the home is alieviated with your absence.

Dear JPH,

I am not as much interested in Control, as I am interested in respect in the household.

As an example, a few days ago, I drove up to my townhouse, and my son's and my wife's cars were parked in front. There are two spaces in front. I have asked College Son to park on the nearby street. Wife has agreed with my request,to Son.

Wife had come home after College Son. When I arrived home, Wife and I were leaving shortly for a meeting. Wife was going to cook College Son some food before leaving. I privately asked her not to cook for son, as he had disrespected me, by parking in front of the house. Not that I can't walk.

I asked Wife, in the future, to ask College Son to move his car, or to offer to move his car for him, if he was justifiably busy. I asked her to take notice of his parking, as a matter of respect. Certainly, if College Son is loading or unloading, that could be reasonable, but that was not the case.

I asked wife to look for ways that she could boost my respect with College Son. I asked her to avoid rewarding disrespect. Fixing Son Dinner, while he is parked in my space, is behaviourly confusing. Wife has smirked and disrespected me too many times, in front of Son. I am asking her to reverse her wrongdoings.

I don't mind moving to a smaller place where I have to walk further, and live by myself. I would prefer solitude to disrespect.

I don't go off about things. I am pleasant when I am home. So when I leave, I doubt they notice much. I leave for my own peace of mind.

But I am asking W to change her habit of smirking and missing obvious Pavlovian situations where she is rewarding disrespect, without thinking. I am asking W to change her habit of not behaviorally evaluating what she says or does, and to avoid rewarding disrespect.

W argued about it for a few hours, but after a while, she began to see my points, and feel my reasonable leadership. Now we seem to be on a better course.


SENATOR'S RANT:
I am interested in getting on with my productivity. I am bound up with be being oppositional to oppositional family members. I feel uncomfortable working on anything around that house. The atmosphere just makes me uptight. I would rather stay late at work, or go to a room in somebody else's house.

Blessings
1976 Views 11-11-05
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RANTING IDEAS:


This morning, I noticed there were dishes piled in the sink, the dishwaser top rack was open, with large dishes keeping the dishwasher unable to be closed, the upstairs Landry hamper by College Son's room was overflowing, and there were clothers in the drier to be folded. I asked W if she would like help working on any of the bottlenecks.

Over the past six weeks, I have been asking for more respect, and pointiong out that logjams in the flow of household chores. Over the past 10 years, I have made comments about W creating logjams in the household chores, as I have tried to pitch in, to help wiht chores, but found systems/processes jammed by W.

So W wanted to argue about the issue, pretending she had no idea what I meant by bottlenecks. I suggested we discuss the issue when she was not argumentative, because I was interested in her seeing what I saw, through her own eyes.

Which leads to some questions:

After discussing the issue of how W impacts respect, for six weeks, have we made no progress?

Are there only certain attititides, or spaces in time/circumstances, when W can relate to issues of roadblocks and respect?

Should I tell W, "Well apparently you are going to be sporadic about avoiding creating logjams, avoiding reward disrepectful lazininess in College Son. Therefore, I have to assume that the dynamics of respect will continue to be undermined by your inaction and impulses. Therefore, given that the atmospehre is unacceptable to me in the house, as it is, I need to make plans for change, myself. Do you have any suggestions, or offers of any assistance?"

My oppositional nature makes it difficult for me to admit the possibility that many who posted to this thread, being correect, in their pessimistic view about my accoplishing the requested changes I have developed and attempted during this thread.

I have, over the past years of marriage, complained about W's roadblocking flows/processes of chores. In the past 6 weeks, the same requests have come up as hindering repect in the household. Perhaps I should make the assumption that W will not change much, or significantly, and make my plans around her inconsistent an doppostional nature, as a given.

Six weeks ago, W said she wanted to work out the issues of repect. Today, she is saying she wants to do things as she had been doing them of the past few years.

I should probably make a list of my options, from ideal to practical, and start considering fallback plans.

Perhaps I should assume that both College Son and W are being disrepectful, and that I need to increase my power positions to deal with them. Basically, move my stuff out of the house and live somewhere else. I can do it sneaky and smooth. Not my nature, but maybe just focus on my physical/strategic power over them.

Ideas?
1993 Views, 11-12-05

Senator,



This thread isn't about me, but no, H isnt asking for me to make changes and I am a person who believes in change so I am very happy with my personal path.



I think LIFE is about change and change would not be my definition of marriage. I do believe that M is about continual GROWTH as a couple. Where we really differ is that you seem to think it's all about others changing and not about you. It's so obvious in all your posts that your search for harmony in your M and R with your son is about them changing and if they don't do and say or react how YOU want then you are oppositional and find subtle munipulative ways to make them pay for thier non-compliance. Take a good look Senator. No matter how you want to candy coat your actions or justify behaviors based on what they do, it all comes down to you. How you act and react to them. You CHOOSE to be oppositional. You choose to let them affect your personal change.

Opposition is a childs game. "If you don't do things my way I won't be your friend anymore." Only you are a grown up Senator. You refuse to see your role and you refuse to make changes in yourself based on them instead of making changes to benefit them or to benefit yourself as a person. If M is about change for you then why aren't you changing those things you know are oppositional behaviors? Why aren't you being the best you that you can be within your R's? Why aren't you allowing your W and S to change themselves as they see fit and do things thier way?

You press for W to see things your way. You want her to understand how and why you feel the way you do. Do you offer her the same consideration? I don't see it. She opposes you and you become oppositional back. Pointless tail chasing Senator. Pointless. You strike me as a smart guy. You don't strike me as one who would waste his time fighting against something he can't change. Yet as I read your thread it's all I see.



What has one got to do with the other? If your W is late for work and she is having an affair at work then that would offer her LESS time to participate in her affair. If you know she is leaving late from home then she couldn't be using that time for her affair. And even if she was, her being on time is not going to solve the REAL problem of her having an affair.



I haven't read the book but I am familiar with the concept. The one thing I do know is it's about making changes within yourself. Not getting others to make changes. If a person makes changes it usually will have an impact on their environment including the people around them.

Symphony