How much is too much to put up with? In my current relationship with my new girlfriend who is recently divorced (May 05), I'm forced to put up with many things.

Granted, I knew all this going in, so there's no blame assigned to her at all, just wanting others' perspectives on everything to keep myself honest with my feelings, keep the relationship as healthy as can be expected in a post divorce period; and lastly determine if I'm being too "nice".

Here's what I'm putting up with:

1) Repeated story telling of her past with her WexH. I know we all have to tell our stories over & again to process them & reach healing. But when is it damaging to any future relationship we might have? When does it reach an unhealthy point?

2) She lost a child in the process. She says little about this, but mostly likes to talk about her exH. She's aware of what's going on, and how she needs to process, but also how it isn't terribly helpful for any relationship with me. I'm wondering if she's dealing with this as a loss to get over or is really missing her exH & would secretly like to have him back?

3) Yesterday, I flew she & I in my personal plane to Florida to help her retired parents move. It was a BIG job that I volunteered to help with cause they're older & the weather was very hot, etc. Anyway, I truly care for her folks & they seem to like me a great deal. But it was especially disconcerting to have her dear Mother calling me by her ExH's name! She's only 62 in full health & mind is sharp. I know just a life habit of 9 yrs, but it still stung. Also my girlfriend has called me her exH's name too as well as endearing terms she used for him.

I'm fully aware how these things go. Our minds just coast when we're relaxed with someone, something slips out that's habit, etc. Probably shouldn't make it a big deal, but I'm still wondering if I'm being too nice to just shrug it off.

It does bother me some.

Anyone with thoughts?
High Flight

What you are going through is too much. Your GF has only been divorced about 4 months and has no business in a relationship right now. The fact that she still needs to repeat stories about her ex proves this. You say she lost a child in the process. By this do you mean that she lost custody of a child or that she had one die? Either way this must be emotionally devastating to her, but especially so if it is the latter. Again this is something she needs to deal with before she has a relationship.

I don't see any good long term prospects for this relationship. She is on the rebound and you are unconciously being associated with her divorce. When she's finally ready to let all that go, she will let you go, too, since you are part of the package. If you care for this woman, I would suggest that you have a frank talk with her, suggesting that she needs more time to get over her divorce and that the two of you need to cool your relationship for awhile. If is hightly unlikely she will agree to this and will end the relationship. But, to be honest, it is better for that to happen now than sometime down the road when you are more emotionally invested.

let the mother's faux pas go. This is rather common and I'm sure nothing was meant by it.

HF: I'm not sure that "too nice" is the issue here. It's probably more along the lines of "considerate".

This is no doubt due to the May, '05 D-date. I feel that she (and therefore you also) will be working on these matters through May, '06.

Not sure. Only she can answer that one. However losing a child and divorce within a short amount of time must surely be traumatic to anyone. Given the timeline, this does not sound out of sorts to me.


You say her folks care for you therefore I feel sure her Mom meant nothing by it. Remember that her Mom also recently lost a grandchild and went through the divorce as well. Both are traumatic enough to cause a few memory-slips. I would think nothing of it and just laugh it off. I'm not surprised that your GF has also slipped. Keep in mind that memory lapses are commonplace after traumatic events. I would not make a big deal of it at all - perhaps even make light of it. (Use your ex's name in jest: "OK, Sara" instead plug in your ex's name.)

Nope. You're not being too nice. Just considerate!

FR

Check & I wrote in at the same time - thus the conflicting threads. I assumed (perhaps wrongly so) that you had already considered all that Check says and had made up your mind to move forward with this relationship anyway!

FR

Guys, this is all good stuff. I appreciate the perspectives for sure. Truthfully, I haven't made up my mind at all yet. I'm just starting the thought process.

Clarification: The child loss was due to a miscarriage - 3 months along. Child was conceived during her noble attempt to allow her WH back home to "try again one more time". She became immediately PG. He promptly returned to his GF 2 weeks later. She carried the child alone till it died and even dialed 911 herself & rode an ambulance to the hospital alone & miscarried with only a lady friend from work there with her! That all took place in Jan, 05.

Lots of trauma for her. She seems VERY strong & together in dealing with all this. Her family is close & most supportive + she has a very strong faith in God, and a super career with people around her that care.

Nevertheless, there are all these tell-tale signs & symptoms that speak to me - a more "experienced" post divorce survivor of still pending issues.

CheckUr, I appreciate what you're saying. I have to admit I do find myself wondering how this can ever work long term given the timing?? What I fear most is that I'm the perceived therapist for her. When she gets over it, she recovers, she won't need me the therapist / BF any more. Then I'll be dismissed along with her past (much as you've suggested).

To this end, I've suggested that she needs to get into therapy on her own. I've told her my concerns as stated exactly above. She listens & says she doesn't think of me that way. But she hasn't gone out & gotten into therapy either.

Bottom line? I'm just wondering if there's any way to "beat the odds" here? To successfully make this work & not become a RR? To work through the grief together & come out the other side still together & stronger than ever?

This is rolling big dice here, because she's a real "keeper" in her own right, and she's already telling me she feels love for me, she's wanted someone like me all her life, etc. If I go into one of these "we need to pull back until you're more recovered" talks - is that going to just kill off any potential to make this work that we've ever had? I know it will surely put the brakes on & cause some serious sadness to occur at the least.

And yet, OTOH, pulling back may be the ONLY means of making this work! Giving it time to breathe. Letting things develop along natural lines. Creating the right environment for growth & recovery.

Tough decisions.....
High Flight

HF,
This sounds different, yet similar <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

I started talking to my xBF 7 weeks after his wife passed away. She had a long illness, so it seemed he had adjusted to her death (it wasn't sudden). We started out as friends, and quickly progressed to dating.

I thought surely everything would work out. I kept the brakes on the relationship (he fell in love with me VERY quickly), and tried to give him plenty of time to grieve, tried to be supportive, tried to make sure he was dealing with the loss of his wife properly, etc etc. Things were SO GOOD between us, communication was excellent, we kept a constant monitor on how he was, and how we were... we thought we could make it, despite the circumstances in which our R started.

2 and 1/2 years later, we finally gave it up. He finally learned that he should not have started dating so soon. I couldn't be the one to help him heal. I couldn't even be there in his life in order for him to heal properly. I clouded his healing, and made things more difficult for his kids during those 2 years also.

I think you are putting up with too much. You shouldn't be her counselor... therapist? ... crutch? ... hero? .... that's setting your relationship up in a very unfair way... as she heals (or heals improperly), the dynamics of your relationship will chance significantly...

Both people need to be at similar levels of "health" and independence. Your relationship seems to be a little lopsided... one scooping up the other... and this is not healthy and can't last very long.

This is not coming out very well. I will think about this some more, and try to come back. But I definitely think there are some warning signs...

Looking back at the R with my xBF... neither of us regret it. We both learned a lot. We knew from the start, with open eyes, that we were on a risky journey, and so... we don't regret, and we don't have hard feelings. But it definitely didn't (and can't) work long-term. No way.

hugs,
Faith1

Yeah, High Flight it is possible to beat the odds. Everytime we have even a moderately successful RR, we beat the odds. In your case, the odds are pretty long though. Personally, I've never known anyone to have a relationship with a recent divorce(e) that lasted.

Seems like you're looking at this from all sides and that's good. You know, if she's the jewel you think her to be, she will understand that pulling back a bit at this time in order to make sure that ultimately you guys can move forward in a healthy way is a good idea. If not, well....

HF,

Um, I did call my BF by ex's name a couple of times. After 12 years with my ex, and a son with his name, it was a reflex. He then returned the favor by calling me by his ex's name. Neither of us let it bother us - it just happened. And it wasn't in a "passionate" moment where that sort of depersonalization might be really really offensive.

I think that you should be proactive about subjects that you would rather not discuss. Just change the topic - it could be that she is trapped in a rut and talking about what is on her mind rather than breaking out of this pattern and talking about other subjects. Ask her about a recent news event or fashion trend - help her out a little.

If you don't like "sweety" or "pooh bear" then ask her kindly not to use that particular endearment. Set a boundary. If she continues, then think of a consequence. (I have asked you not to call me "sweety" GF, if you continue to do so, I will be upset and it will spoil the mood of the evening) I dunno - you could leave or call her toots or something. I'm sure there are some members here better with boundary consequences than I am.

Take care and just enjoy the developing relationship - advice I should take myself.

V.

Dr.Joy Brown suggests that to break any bad habit like that, tell her she needs to pay you $20 for each time she calls you the wrong name. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> It'll end it pretty quickly. The same goes for you.. if you're doing any bad habits with someone that you konw needs to stop, then offer them $20 for each time you do it.. and whammo! You'll stop, VERY soon indeed. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Karen

HighFlight,

Please know that I like you and I would not want to be hurtful towards you. You have been kind to me during my own troubled times. That being said......

I worry that this great lady has not had the time to heal.
I don't think that she is intentionally trying to be hurtful. And, I even think she wants to be in the relationship, but she has healing to do.

Most of us are familiar with the heartache that goes with adultery. Some of us know the pain of miscarriage, or even pain once having children. They are hard events to move on from. They do take time. I think we can move on, but time is important.

I feel that you have continued to be honest with yourself throughout this growing relationship. I know that you have strong beliefs. I trust that you are giving this one "up" and praying about it. You have said before how much your boys like having her in their lives, so I know that is another issue you must be dealing with.

I don't have an answer for you. I don't think its a matter of being too nice. I really don't believe it's intentional. I can tell you honestly, for myself, I needed the time to heal. It was something my xbf couldn't help me with. I'm sure you are a strength for her, and she has probably needed it, but could there be lingering issues she needs to deal with? I would say most likely so.

As for her mother mistakenly calling you the wrong name. Try not to take it so hard. Yeah, I'm sure it stings, but my mom and my grandmother do this kind of thing all the time. They feel bad after they do it too! Chances are, she feels awful when it happens.

I do think of you from time to time, and I still hope the best for you.

Karona

Much appreciation to all for the thoughts & advice here. Just what I was hoping for...

I'm not going to respond just yet to any -- I'm going to ponder each of your posts a bit more, then get back to the group.

Again THANKS!!!
High Flight

PS If anyone has more thoughts, feel free to express while I think....

OK, I don't really know all the details, but going by this thread alone, you are on a train heading straight down to Louisiana (where Katrina is wreaking havoc). In other words, this sounds like a train wreck waiting to happen.

Lets look at the evidence.

This lady has been divorced three months. You don't say how long she was married, or how painful the divorce was, but she also had a miscarriage very recently. So, the simple fact is that she is not ready for dating three months after the divorce.

What bothers me is that this is not a lady you just met yesterday (which still would be too soon). But, you have already been involved with her quite a while, seeing that you are flying her around the country and helping with her parents' move. So how long after her divorce did you and she start dating?



This makes the relationship fundamentally flawed, IMO. One thing I believe is that a relationship that starts wrong can rarely be moved back on track - once a wrong pattern is established, it becomes the norm, and it's hard to renegotiate, because in her eyes, you would stop being the very thing that she adored about you.


I doubt it. I think that you are her crutch, and neither she nor the relationship you have is healthy.


Well, I think you are projecting or assuming here a bit. It sounds to me like rationalizing, one of those "if only she did A, B, or C, everything would be great" things... You have to look at the reality on the ground, not at the "potential".


And if you didn't know this already, this alone tells you that she is not healthy right now, and is relying on you to heal. That is fundamentally flawed.


It probably is your best chance, but like I said, my experience is that once a relationship starts on the wrong course, a midcourse correction rarely works.

I am really curious how long you have been dating this woman?

AGG

I agree that this woman has not healed. If you stay in the picture, she will heal - like a broken leg set incorrectly. That won't be because of anything you did but will be because of what she didn't do. She's not ready. You are not seeing her in a healthy state.

I vote for gently telling her that you care about her and that you know she needs to heal ON HER OWN. SHE HAS TO DO THE WORK HERSELF. If you remain in the picture, she won't do it.

Less gently, run - don't walk.

I don't know what you mean by "pulling back," but personally I suspect that that's your only shot at a healthy relationship with this woman. That's my gut feeling, but without knowing either of you, I can't be any more specific than that.

Let me add a bit more information here to perhaps give everyone a better understanding of this situation.

Her exH did his affair in Fall of 04. She underwent some counseling then. He wouldn't participate, moved in with his GF. She lost the baby Jan 05. Divorce was May 05. She's been alone since approximately Nov 04.

We have an extremely high compatibility factor. Education, upbringing, religion & ethical values, communication, likes/dislikes, numerous personal aspects, social enjoyments, pets, kids, socio-economic position, etc. There really is very little we are not quite similar & together on.

It was one of those "hit it off" from the beginning things when we first met.

There is absolutely NO URGENCY to expedite this relationship by either of us. I don't want it, neither does she. We both agree & understand that a sizeable amount of time needs to transpire going forward. Meanwhile, we are close & we both truly enjoy each other's company.

Both of us are also aware of how difficult it is to find someone like "each other" -- therefore we don't want to let go of this easily.

Anyway, this is more info for the group.

Still thinking & listening...
High Flight

Does this HAVE to be true??? That someone cannot heal with another "in the picture"? What about when marrieds lose a child or a parent, or close friend, etc.? What about the extreme losses due to hurricane, fire, floods?

There's tons of grief work that has to be done. YES! I agree is oft times ends in a failed marriage. But does it HAVE TO??? That is my question....

I'm listening,
High Flight

Faith1 ~ I'm most intrigued by what you've said. Question: Why do you think "you clouded his healing"? What happened to make him realize he really wasn't ready? Did you uncover incompatibility that was masked by the warm feelings of being close & supportive initially? I'm Curious!!

Kind Regards,
High Flight

Dear Karona,

And I like you too!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Truly I appreciate your words here. Yes, I'm "giving this up" to the One who knows best. Meanwhile I'm trying to do my expected part by thinking carefully what is going on & what is best and not so good....Here's what I know at this point:

I know healing takes time.
I know she's been through a ton.
I know the odds from the stats...but do "we" have to be a typical stat?
I know her trauma is fairly recent.
I know there's a danger in RR.
I know she cares for me a good deal. Clearly I care for her too.
I know she likes my world, my boys, my church, my life.
I know I like the same about her.
I know our compatibility is very high.
I know it will be very difficult to find another like her all things considered.
She says she doesn't think she could find "me" out there very easily either.

So here I am...wondering what I've got myself in to? Wondering if I have much of a shot at suceeding here? Wondering if what I should do in her best interests? Will it hurt her more to have me around & then the relationship fails? Or to pull back & let her find her own way to healing?

If I give up early...and we could've made it work, then what have I lost?

This ain't easy...
High Flight

The answer is, nobody knows.

The odds of a rebound relationship succeeding are pretty slim. The biggest problem is... she is not going to be the same person when she heals that she is today. Any relationship built on compatability now, may not have the same compatability later. That's why it's so difficult.

You are going to have to decide for yourself if it is worth the effort. You are heading down a long hard road where the chance of making your destination is very slim.

HighFlight,
I feel for you, I really do.

I know this is not easy.
To be honest, I still think of xbf. I'm doing okay, but I do find myself thinking he's the one that got away.

There is something that you said in one of your posts on this topic, that I want to ask.
It was that she says "she feels love for you" and that she has always wanted someone like you in her life. [I hope I didn't miss quote this. I'm sorry if I did]

Did you mean that she is in love with you, or are you saying she feels it? I tend to think the two are different.

"So here I am...wondering what I've got myself in to? Wondering if I have much of a shot at suceeding here? Wondering if what I should do in her best interests? Will it hurt her more to have me around & then the relationship fails? Or to pull back & let her find her own way to healing?

If I give up early...and we could've made it work, then what have I lost?"

I think either way, she will be hurt, and I feel the same for you also.
I think what you have gotten yourself into is finding someone that you truly care about. Someone that maybe you thought you wouldn't find again.

Maybe the answer goes back to what it was like when we were married.
For myself, probably you, and some other's, we had to do all that we could to save our marriages. In the end, if our marriages didn't survive, we have/had the inner peace of knowing that we did everything we could to save them.
Maybe that is what you have to do again. To have the inner peace in this situation.

Matters of the heart are so fragile, and it's so hard to say what should be done. I think the answers will all come to you in time.

Karona