Wow, I'm just now finally reading through all the steps for addiction recovery on RecoveryNation.com, and I'm starting to get really scared. This all sounds so very hard, and my H is making every mistake that's outlined on this website. For example, he says he's quitting porn b/c I've threatened to leave him. The site tells how this negative motivation can work temporarily, but when the negative motivation is gone (i.e. we settle back into our "comfy spot" again), the addiction generally comes back. And, I've seen this same pattern throughout the years ... Things would build up. We would fight. I would threaten to leave. He'd "be good" for a few weeks. Things start to get better where he feels more secure w/ our M. Then, he's right back to his pornography, gaming, binge-eating, etc.

I've stayed at home from work today b/c I want to dedicate some time to researching this topic and to learn exactly what I'm up against and how to help him through it, but it's become very overwhelming. Instead of seeing hope, I'm becoming more and more discouraged. Having gone through the addictions of my own A, I can see it in his eyes and hear it in his voice. I know he doesn't see this as a real problem that he wants to remove. He just wants to appease me long enough so that I don't leave him.

What do I do?? How can I make him see how his destructive behaviors are ruining his life - not to mention diminishing the already-slim chance we have for a martial recovery? Even though our MC has said this, I don't think he realizes that his behaviors would ruin his chance at any relationship, and it's not just me.

Anyone out there w/ some suggestions?

Whisper,
The bad thing is-there is little you can do but support him. He won't really come to appreciate the effect all this has on him until he starts to live without it, and discovers how much he is missing w/ you by acting addictively. He will start the process of recovery, then as he starts to get healthy he will understand.

Very few people start recovery because they think its the best thing to do, they start because of an outside threat-losing a job, spouse, etc.

You have a tough road ahead of you, just focus on getting yourself better so that you can handle which ever path he chooses.

I think I read one of your earlier posts that there was an 8 week wait for a counselor. In our case, we were told that, but it was only about 3 weeks.

Starting - Thank you. While the truth is discouraging, at least it gives me a point of reference so that I can be prepared and make my own choices and decisions.

You asked the question about the Bethesda Workshops and if they would be good for someone even if they were secular minded. I went through a lot of the material and most of it is basic counseling focused on having a sound marriage. If you have questions or concerns about it the people are great about answering questions. Just look at the www.bethesdaworkshops.org website and find their number and give them a call. The workshops are usually booked solid and can take time to get into they are in such demand from people seeking out help.

They would address part of what you said you do by making demands of him to stop and then he stops for a while and then he goes back to his porn. You see its his problem and he has to want to change and you can't make him. If he doesn't want to stop, no threat will ever change him. It might stop him for a while, but it won't change him. He has to want to make the change. He has to accept the problem. He has to put forth the effort to seek out counseling and find out what his issues are.

And there are things for you to learn along the way about how you deal with his addiction. Instead of a threat you need to set a boundary that says this is what I expect and anything less I will not tolerate. They may even be hard boundaries like separation until he gets counseling and works on the problem for a while. These are things you would learn in the Bethesda workshop.

Sex addition is a difficult struggle. Some men overcome it, but they have to admit to the problem and decide to get the help. If they do there is over a 90% chance for a successful recovery if they continue counseling and they have someone they use for accountability.

Art,

Thank you. I read all of the Recovery section and a large portion of the Partners section on RecoveryNation.com and have discovered the same in what you've shared. I will look into Bethesda workshop as soon as I'm done with RecoveryNation. As I was going through the content, I was quite overwhelmed and frightened, but it all makes good, logical sense, and I just need to determine whether or not he's committed and sincere ... and determine my own course of action. His addiction issues have just robbed me of so much trust and self respect over the years that it's so hard to even think about climbing Mt. Everest (as RecoveryNation puts it) again. I know I can't go into this thinking that it will fail or else it will be a self-fulfilling prophesy, but how do I muster up the confidence and trust again after being so battered? Perhaps I can rely on the adage ... time will heal all wounds. I just hope I have enough time.

Thanks again,

I just happened to read the other post you had about your husband and some of his habits, like playing video games, his obcessing over work, weight gain, impatient, negative, anti-social, wants to stay home, spending crazy hours on work. All of those are coping mechanisms, especially the playing video games and working. It's his was of dealing with anxiety and porn is just another way of dealing with anxiety. Depending upon his level of obcessing on some of these, he might want to discuss with a counselor or a psychiatrist the possibility of having a mild form of Obcessive Compulsive Disorder. If he has a mild form of OCD anxiety, then an SSRI or possiblly an SNRI can help him. I had a mild form of OCD anxiety and since I have been on medication there is a 1000% change.

My fww of five years had an affair. It was a one-off thing that had many contributing reasons. One of those reasons was my porn addiction - and general computer addiction.

When I learned of the affair, I took an inventory of me with no blinders on. I went to this site and researched it completely.

I decided that what I had to do was fix me first - then see what I could do for my family and ww. It worked.

The first thing I gave up was porn - any time any place any time. The second thing I did was open myself up completely and I mean open. I quit crying and started thinking.

Tell your husband from me - porn is a substitute for the real thing and the real thing is far better if he will give it a chance.

And I mean TELL HIM - flat out from a former porn addict, it will eat his heart and eat his soul and destroy any hope of a quality relationship with any woman.

Marriage is no guarantee of success in a relationship - if you fail to cultivate it, if you fail to put your heart and sould into it, you get weeds. Porn is one of the ways you get weeds.

No, I am not taking the hit for my fww's affair. We should have had better communication and she should have made her needs known to me in a more effective way. BUT, who we are with in a marriage is always a contributing factor, if not an excuse.

NC applies to porn. And it also applies to games. Tell him to find other ways to entertain himself, like helping with the house and kids or taking an online course - or anything to divert him to more mentally healthy activities.

He can break it if he thinks the rewards are great enough, which was my mindset. And the rewards for me have been so great, I kick myself for not taking the path I am on years ago.

Whisper - I know you know the gravity of the situation - TRA is absolutely correct.

I am in the middle of "Love Must be Tough" by James Dobson, and in it he describes the forced crisis. It is written by a Christian for Christians, but the priciple is a life principle. I have not finished the book, but I am about to move to the forced crisis stage in my own M. It causes the addict to see more clearly what the problems are. And like TRA said - actually recognizing the issue is a large part of the healing. If you can read through Dobson's book it might give you some insight. Be prepared for a lot of biblical refererence.

Whisper - THIS IS THE EXACT REASON WE(BSs) WORK ON OURSELVES FIRST. Thanks for explaining this - it is good to hear you tell your reason. It gives me hope.

Keep us updated. This thread deals with a subject that is critical in our nation right now.

BTW - recoverynation is a great resource. I had made changes and gone NC with porn at the first of the year. After going through recoverynation in June, the walk is now a lot easier. I have had a personal paradigm shift. The temptation is fading away. Just gotta watch out for hotel rooms with cable. It is WAY too easy to get access to porn, and it is eroding society.

far

Larry & FAR,

Thanks so much for your posts! It's so good to know that there are people like yourselves who have gone through this type of an addiction and have conquered it. It gives me hope. And, yes, RecoveryNation is a wealth of great information (and a real eye-opener).

Even better news ... somehow our MC has convinced my H to attend weekly group therapy, which has helped me make my decision to end and get past my A. It's now helping me work on my many other behavior problems (i.e. anger, control, guilt, depression, etc.) But, enough about me ... can you believe it?? Half-way through MC, the therapist sent me out of the room. And, when she admitted me back in 30 minutes later, my H opnely agreed to attend group therapy! I was/am ecstatic!!

I realize that it's a process and that it will take time, but this is such a huge step for him!!! Just curious ...

FAR - Did you say that it took you 6 months to get past this?

Larry - How long did it take you?

Thanks again to you both and everyone for your continued support and wonderful advice. Not sure what I would do had I not found MB!!

Hugs,

I was going to chime in to, since I have also managed to overcome my addiction. My addiction was really bad, driven by OCD anxiety that increased the compulsions to act out I found myself moving from porn, to online chats to affairs. But for over two years now I have managed to remain totally addiction free, which for me includes, no masturbation, no porn, no online chats, no affairs. Any sex is only with my wife, which is the way it should be, at least for me and my beliefs.

As far as how long, it takes different people different lengths of time to overcome their addiction. I work with groups of men dealing with SA. For me it was rather quick because I was at a broken point that I wanted to be healed from my addiction. You have to want to be healed it just doesn't happen on its own. Some of the healing depends on how deep problems are, such as was there childhood emotional trauma, abuse, molestation. And a lot depends on how much the wife and family are willing to support the process. But the real responsibility for change comes from the addict, I can't stress that enough. They have to want to go to counseling. They have to want to change. They have to want accountability. No one can make another person change into what they want them to be.

Because I revealed all I had done in my acting out, it devastated my wife and there was healing that needed to take place. In counseling I also agreed there would be no sex on my part for at least 3 months even if she was willing. Well it turned into 6 months before she was willing, so I patiently waited. The idea behind going at least 3 months without "ANY" kind of sex is that it allows the brain chemicals to reset to a normal level. Sex releases all kinds of nice endorphines that medicate the brain and the brain gets use to those chemicals just like cocaine. The first month was tough..... The second month a little better. The third month all the fantasies and desires that normally were controlling me had started to die down some with the counseling and accountability I was receiving. By the sixth month I felt I could have gone my entire life without sex, although the desires were there. Before I could have never said that. So I guess by six months of intense counseling, removal of sex, accountability, some group therapy you can accomplish a lot if you have the desire.

Just remember this will be your husbands journey and your role should only be support. You will also have to define boundaries along the way and communicate those to him. And you will have your own journey to strengthen who you are. I wish you the best and will keep you in my prayers.

Wow. Thanks so much for your story, Art.

Question - Do you suggest that my H and I abstain from sex for some period of time? Is abstinence always necessary for SA recovery?

Since recovery, our SF has continuously improved ... this is a huge step considering we've not had any intimacy for nearly 8 years. Unfortunately, I think my H was hoping that our SF would be able to replace his need for pornography. What are your thoughts?

Thanks again for your input!!

Let me make this point about the abstinence and then it can be a personal decision. For me, knowing that I could learn to abstain "totally" from sex for a period of time has given me a base to always go back to in my mind. I can always remind myself that for 6 months even though the addiction was always pulling at me I didn't give in. Sometimes when you are in the battle it's helpful to have those reminders.

Does SF replace the need for porn? Possibly, it just could be a part of the addiction. Sometimes when you remove one thing, something else fills in. Remove the porn and the SF may become more frequent, and sometimes might even lead to areas where the other spouse starts to feel pressured. It just depends on how comfortable the other spouse is with sex and what their boundaries are. Just realize that unless the person had identified their problems, worked on the issues they are probably subsituting one thing for another. If he things SF will replace his need for porn, that is what he is trying to do. He should be able to say I can remove my porn and stand alone without it. Again, it's why some sex addiction counselors recommend 3 months of no sex just to prove that is possible.

You know during that period I learned just to snuggle with my wife and be non-sexual. A lot of men can't do that. Knowing you have to, especially when you know you wife is not going to give in, well you learn.

Thank you, Art. Just a couple more questions, please ...

"to snuggle with my wife and be non-sexual. A lot of men can't do that."

>For several years my H was never sexual toward me. No flirting, insinuations, suggestive looks, fondling, etc. Yet, he clearly was interested in sex and pornography. Is this normal w/ SA? I thought that the more sexual one's activities are (i.e. viewing/using pornography), the more (quantity and quality) that individual would want it?? With that being said, I certainly wasn't interested in sex w/ my H when I was in my A b/c I honestly couldn't bring myself to have sex w/ 2 men. Does pornography work the same?

What do you look for in a successful SA counselor?

Re: no-SF in SA recovery. I'm very concerned that if I don't "give in," he will be forced to go back to pornography to satisfy his needs. He recently suggested this without saying so many words.

Sorry for all these sensitive questions. I'm really trying to understand.

Thank you,

In regards to your question about your husband not being sexual for a period of time, while interested in porn, I can come up with several reasons, but I would be speculating, since I don't know your situation well or your husband. There are a variety of reasons from guilt of affairs, to guilt from same sex attractions, to guilt over the porn, etc, etc. But the common word is usually GUILT. There was probably something internally he was feeling shame or guilt about.

Makes sense. Thanks, Art.

Any suggestions on what to look for in effective SA counselors?

Regarding the SA counselor I was trying to think of a good sound response before I answered and I am still struggling with a good answer. So, what I am going to do is ask my counselor who is an expert and then I'll pass on the information. My counselor lectures on and teaches sexual addiction classes, so I am sure he can provide some good tips on what to look for. I will email him today and I am sure I will have a response by monday afternoon.

Thank you very much.