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I read some of your posts to winterkiss..and it sounds in my humble opinion that you are struggling with some things...
and if you wanted to explore them here on a thread about that I would be game...
I am not saying I have any answers for you...
but I am concerned about your possible use of Plan B....
and concerned about you...and your emotional state....
so if you care to....
I'm game....
blessings to you
ARK^^
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Is that boy acting up again?? TA??
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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"The actions you speak are louder than your words!"
Author unknown
"Miracles are seen in light."
From "A Course In Miracles".
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I read some of your posts to winterkiss..and it sounds in my humble opinion that you are struggling with some things...
Thanks so much ark. Yes I am struggling, very much so.
and if you wanted to explore them here on a thread about that I would be game...
I truly appreciate your help ark.
I am not saying I have any answers for you...
I'm positive you will. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
but I am concerned about your possible use of Plan B....
Yes, I've very concerned about Plan B also.
and concerned about you...and your emotional state....
My Emotional state has been terrible over the last 2 weeks, I'm not sure why? Maybe I feel Hopeless?
so if you care to....
I'm game....
Ok, here goes.
She wants to stay married but NO sex. I laughed and told her I am 46, very athletic, probably in the prime of my sex life and you tell me no more sex as long as were married.
She replied "Why can't we stay together for the kids? You're so Selfish and self centered all you care about is yourself (this coming from a WS, can you friggin believe this).
She asked "why do I need SEX?" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
I told her I need Intimacy that comes thru sex. If I just wanted sex I could have sex with any woman, that's not what I want.
I visited my "other" MC today (my ins co covers for Free) and got his opinion. He follows Dr Harley and in fact he referred me to his books which is how I found this site.
My MC said my wife is most likely Cake eating and I have given her ALL the power (which I have).
He told me to give her an Ultimatum. I told him I don't want to give Ultimatums but he said this is "his" advice NOT Dr H.
He said "tell your wife you want to have Sex within 48 hours and she has to Initiate it. Tell her if she doesn't comply then I will file for Divorce. I laughed and told him NO Way Dr H would advise this. He got ticked off.
He wants me to do this TODAY. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
He said wait 48 hours and then file for Divorce. You can live in the same house while working thru the process.
I told him I was going to Plan A some more, spend time with my kids, get them back to school, finish taking care of some financial matters, finish doing things to the house, spend one last Thanksgiving and Christmas as a family and then Plan B after Jan 3, 2006.
I told my MC it's not easy to just walk away. I am hoping that we can reconcile so I have to find an apartment/townhome with an escape clause or a very short term lease. It takes time to do this.
MC said "you are already in a Defacto Divorce, you just haven't filed. Your wife is NOT connecting and there is no Intimacy. You are not married contrary to what you may believe."
I felt like crying when he said that, I almost swelled up in his office. He told me I was getting too emotional about this and I have to admit that this marriage will most likely NOT work out and it is time for both of us to move on.
I told MC I've been with her since 1977, over 28 years and we have 2 beautiful children. I told him my 11 year old son will be devastated and he may fail in school. I'm not sure about my 15 year old daughter because at this stage (puberty) she isn't that close to me or my wife. It's not easy to walk away and then to see her have fun with another male, and possibly the OM who may be in her life today. I said I feel as though he has won and stolen my family.
My wife claims there is NO OM and it has been over for a long time, yet she won't give me 1 friggin detail. Told me to get over it, it was ALL my fault, she is not talking about this ever again, am I going to hang this over her head for the rest of her life (we NEVER even talk about the affair,WTF) yada, yada, yada, ...
I told her when you Love someone you don't bring up the past over and over, but we do need to talk about it. I said if I continued to bring up the Affair "forever" our marriage will never have a chance. I want to forgive you and move past this, I want us to fall in love again. How could you fall in love with ME if I hang this affair and guilt over your head.
I told MC that I am fairly sure she is NOT in a PA currently but she most likely is still in an EA that is why we are NOT connecting.
I told MC "if" OM is still in the pic then she will not choose me, she is still in the fantasy/addiction stage. He said "BUNK."
I've been doing a very good Plan A, working on myself daily, very few LB's, do 80% of the housework, spend a ton of time with my kids, I give her cards, flowers, and anything I can do to make her life easier.
I can't win, that is why I feel Plan B is my next step. Either she comes back or I lose her.
I'm probably biased, but IMO I feel that if I leave and go very dark she will miss me and realize what she is missing.
She's very curtious, not causing any problems (never has) makes me good dinners daily, still does things together as a family (we went to the Upper Penn in MI this Summer) went to my fathers 80th birthday party in IL last month, etc...
Anyone on the outside thinks we are the perfect family. We do everything as a family but nothing as a couple. She won't spend time with me unless the kids are involved so I can't spend 15 hours per week, etc...
She is very happy with the kids, but when I'm around or in bed she seems very depressed. Won't see a doctor either. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
She has a Ton of Pride and I feel she is embarrased about the affair and feels I may not forgive her. I told her I would and I had no choice if I want to be happy.
She is a Major Conflict Avoider, she has ADA (Adult Child of an Alcoholic). I bought 2 books recently about ADA and my wife is Textbook example.
I need help ark^^.
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Well I'm not Ark^^ but here's my 2 cents! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
1. Your W is playing games with you. She has you on a leash and is loving her power of No sex over you. She wants to see you beg for her as if she is a perfect person. She isn't and shouldn't be treated like one.
2. I agree with your MC. But I would say, identify your boundaries and implement. If your boundaries include both marital partners work to satisfy each other, then that includes sex.
3. Your W currently does not love you. She is going through the motions at best. Still living a lie is never fun.
Does she go to MC with you? If not, make that a requirement. If you MC is good, he/she will make sure the real issues come out and you will not have to live her lie in your life.
Something will need to happen soon. Life is too short t/b wasting it on a manipulator.
JMHO,
L.
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Wow..TA
the good news is that when you put it THIS way I feel much better and hopeful about where you are at...and feel there are lots of little plans you can try....
So you are plan Aing you buttocks off and she's basically mean....
so what about some radical 180's...
what about a taste of heaven without you while you are still there
I've been doing a very good Plan A, working on myself daily, very few LB's, do 80% of the housework, spend a ton of time with my kids, I give her cards, flowers, and anything I can do to make her life easier.
so what if you were to throw some serious mysterious moves and actions on your part her way...
and use her verbage that she likes to throw at you right back at her...
what if you took some weekend trips away..
what if you withdrew a few chores quiety without great demonstration...
what if you were to plan an event with friends and not include her...
the whole time moving in her circle without LBS and with care, and charm....
infact what if your mood got even nicer and happier without asking ONE thing from her...
what if you created a really good illusion that you weren't so very interested in her anymore....
and to give her a taste of reality of her choices....without powerstruggling them
without argueing
let her CHASE you...
BUT
what can you do to break up contact with her and the OM..
ARK
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TA,
I can’t sit here and watch you put yourself through this any longer.
I know exactly what you are saying about the sex. It is not JUST sex. Women seem to believe it is all just sex when it comes to US (men). I can tell you that during sex with my wife if there is no intimacy I feel we were both just cheated of something. Not to say good ole horny SF can’t be fun and fulfilling. Be prepared for no intimacy during sex for a while if you should accomplish this.
You may not realize this but through this all I have seen your plan A with your kids! Know that their loyalties will lie with you! Don’t you ever doubt that. Trust me when I tell you this. They can see right through you wife as well. They know her actions are the cause of your pain! You would be surprised what your daughter says to her friends about you., when you are not around. I know it would bring tears of joy to your eyes. All she can see is a man who would not stop at anything to secure her happiness! Trust me on this TA.
I will agree with one thing your MC alluded to, you need to give your wife a huge reality check with a huge push. IMO TA you have nothing to lose at this point. Even the Harleys would agree that you can’t plan A forever. I have not seen your wife budge one little bit. That is why plan B is implemented. If plan A does not destroy the affair and all it’s ramifications plan B is used to save what love you have left and to show her how crushing life would be without you in it! At this point your wife believes you will not go anywhere and she can continue to do as she wants. Time to slap her with a dose of reality!
You need to try some plan B stuff with her. Move to the couch. When she acts bewildered and asks why, tell her that bed was designed with married couples in mind not with roommates in mind. Leave it at that and under no circumstances explain what that is supposed to mean. It is time to set her head spinning instead of yours. Do things as a family without her in it. Don’t let her continue to play and live in her fantasy of one big happy family. If she asks to join you, have her take her own car.. Tell her there is not enough room for her in the back seat with the kids. When she asks what the heck are you talking about, you simply say, that front seat was designed and fitted for my wife, not for my roommate. No further explanation is needed. Let her explain to everyone why she is in her own car! Cook only for you and the kids! I can only cook family meals in these pots and pans, that is what they were designed for. Roommates prepare their own meals! You get my point.
TA, get ready for life without her and don’t hide the fact. Don’t throw it in her face, just don’t hide the fact. This woman needs a wake up call. Give it to her!
And TA get that stupid thought of OM winning or losing out of your head. That is not what this is about. This is about YOU winning. You will not be losing either way! If she comes back to you, you win. If your marriage ends you WIN again. Your pain will go away eventually, your kids will still be by your side, you will be free of an unrepentant, unloving wife, you will have learned what relationships are all about and what is needed to sustain them and you will find someone who would be proud to be with you! See TA, you WIN. There will be no losing on your end.
TA time to get “mentally” fit. You can’t lose at this point. Show her you are consolidating your life to spend without her. And when it is time for a dark plan B, don’t you dare leave those kids with your “roommate”. They need a parent! I would suggest you leave the house only to let her look around everyday and see what she has done to HER life. Let her wallow in self pity and sadness. Search the house for some pictures of the whole family together in happier times. Put them into some frames that can’t be ignored. Post them prominently in the house before you go plan B. When you are gone they will eat at her soul every time she sees them. This is not revenge TA, this is your reality check slap upside her head.
TA you really are in my prayers every night. I don’t know how some of you are still going. Get mentally well TA. You owe it to yourself and your kids.
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Hi TA,
I don't usually post to you because you always seem so wound-up I just don't want to add to the drama. However I will this time. Let's do a little logic exercise. Is what you are doing (chores, no LB's, accepting that no sex is an option, basically kissing your wife's a$$) getting you the desired results? YES/NO. Which one did you pick? I bet you picked NO. So, what is the logical choice? Continue with the same behaviors and hope for different results? If one was to design an experiment and always used the same variables and conducted the experiment the exact same way, time after time: one would expect to get the same results again and again. Continuing to run the same experiment and always getting the same results, but EXPECTING to get a different outcome is, frankly, insane.
I disagree with your counselor a bit. You do not have to threaten divorce. I think this wouldn't work for you because you appear to be addicted to whatever image you have of your wife. I can’t imagine you have great love for the reality of what your wife actually is versus this image that you adore. You have some idealized picture of her and you are holding that as tight as you can. This indifferent, cold, unfeeling person is not that ideal TA. That fact is that you don't want a divorce, so don’t threaten one. Now, either accept that your life is what it is or change something. Accept that you are technically married and are doing so for the sole purpose of raising kids . . . you are co-parents and little else. Accept that you will not have any emotional connection with this person, but you are willing to live this life anyway. I don’t think that living this way is doing the kids any favor. I think that this teaches kids a skewed view of how married people, who are in a loving relationship, interact. How often do you and your wife hold hands, hug, or kiss in front of the kids? How often do you show affection to each other, say loving words, etc.? I bet not often. Is this the message you wish your kids to learn, that married people don't show affection? Kids often learn how to behave in a married relationship by mimicking what they experienced growing up. Would you wish your current marriage on either of your kids?
You can accept a emotionless marriage, this marriage of convenience, or you can decide that you are not going to live in that type of a relationship. It is really up to you. I think the idea of doing a 180 is worth a try. Stop playing nice with her. Things aren't right in your marriage, so stop acting like they are. Quit acting the part of the loving husband. The loving husband needs a loving wife and you don’t have one. Stop sleeping in the same bed with her, (that must be unbearable to be so close to someone you desire and to know that she finds you repulsive). Stop with the flower and the love talk. Treat her with the respect you would give any roommate . . . because that all she really is to you at this point. She isn't a wife.
I say all this because it is painful for me to watch you endlessly twist in the wind. She is going to keep hitting you if she wishes, but you don’t have to smile and hand her the bat.
I hope I don't just make you upset. That isn't my intention. You're a smart guy TA and I think that that is not an asset in this situation. You need to stop thinking and start doing.
CN
What we think or what we know or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence. The only consequence is what we do. ~ John Ruskin
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TA,
I think you should fax SH a copy of what you posted to Ark, then make an appointment to discuss your options.
I remember a while back you told your wife you were not willing to live like this, and she cried for a long time when you held her in your lap. You really had her attention at that point and I know you felt some hope.
I think Ark has some great points too, but I don't know if practicing some 180 stuff will be a strong enough message for your wife.
Yours is a difficult situation. I would hate to see your 11 year old have to go through the upheaval of Plan B or divorce - but if Plan B could shake your wife up enough to participate in recovery it would be worth it.
I don't know how much longer you can go on like this, before your TAKER takes control.
"The actions you speak are louder than your words!"
Author unknown
"Miracles are seen in light."
From "A Course In Miracles".
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Bump TA. C'mon read and reply!
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I'm going to post a reply tonight to everyone.
It will be long.
Thanks for all the help.
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BUMP. Keepin TA on the front boards!
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Well I'm not Ark^^ but here's my 2 cents! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> 1. Your W is playing games with you. I feel she is playng a game. But why? She has you on a leash and is loving her power of No sex over you. She wants to see you beg for her as if she is a perfect person. She told me after D-Day that she is "practically perfect" and can't think of any flaws. The audacity of these WS never cease to amaze me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> She isn't and shouldn't be treated like one. Yes, I need to stop treating her like some damn Queen. 2. I agree with your MC. But I would say, identify your boundaries and implement. If your boundaries include both marital partners work to satisfy each other, then that includes sex. 3. Your W currently does not love you. My MC and Steve Harley both said the same thing. She is going through the motions at best. Still living a lie is never fun. Why bother staying married then, let's both move on. Does she go to MC with you? She went twice to our local MC and once with Steve Harley alone. At the time she refused to go any longer, we haven't talked about it since. If not, make that a requirement. If you MC is good, he/she will make sure the real issues come out and you will not have to live her lie in your life. Something will need to happen soon. Life is too short t/b wasting it on a manipulator. I agree something will happen because I am going to make it happen.
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Wow..TA the good news is that when you put it THIS way I feel much better and hopeful about where you are at...and feel there are lots of little plans you can try.... Why are you confident? So you are plan Aing you buttocks off and she's basically mean.... Yes, Yes, and Yes. so what about some radical 180's... what about a taste of heaven without you while you are still there I'm going to reread Love must be Tough and Torn Asunder this week and implement some ideas. I've been doing a very good Plan A, working on myself daily, very few LB's, do 80% of the housework, spend a ton of time with my kids, I give her cards, flowers, and anything I can do to make her life easier. so what if you were to throw some serious mysterious moves and actions on your part her way... and use her verbage that she likes to throw at you right back at her... what if you took some weekend trips away.. Are you saying alone or with my son. I've taken him to Chicago a few times to visit downtown. He wants to go to the Field Museum and the Shedd Aquarium.
I'm guessing alone would really make her think. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
what if you withdrew a few chores quiety without great demonstration... I wanted to do a great Plan A and then go Plan B. what if you were to plan an event with friends and not include her... the whole time moving in her circle without LBS and with care, and charm.... infact what if your mood got even nicer and happier without asking ONE thing from her... It seems like the Happier I am the more ticked off she gets. what if you created a really good illusion that you weren't so very interested in her anymore.... That will be easy because I have had a lot of women hit on me recently. I guess I'm sending out signals that I am interested in them. Women seem to think that I am available. I have been looking at potential partners and Honestly wondering what life would be like with someone else.
What "if" life really was better without her? This is what kills me. I could avoid all this pain and grief, her lies, my distrust in her, watching her every fuggin move is taking its toll on me.
I can walk away with my head held high knowing I did my best to save this marriage. She has done squat. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
I've even thought about maybe marrying a younger woman say 32-36 and maybe start a family again. I would like to have more kids. My wife stopped at two even though I wanted 4 or 5. I'm the oldest of 12. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
and to give her a taste of reality of her choices....without powerstruggling them, without argueing In other words show her what life may be like without me. let her CHASE you... Ha, I didn't know you were a comedian ark^^. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> BUT what can you do to break up contact with her and the OM.. I hired a PI this week. The problem is that the agency is so backed up that I am down the list.
They told me the Infidelity business is UP 400% since 2000.
60% women following husbands and 40% husbands following wives. In 2000 it was 90/10. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
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TA, I can’t sit here and watch you put yourself through this any longer. I can't take this any longer either, that's why I need help. I know exactly what you are saying about the sex. It is not JUST sex. Women seem to believe it is all just sex when it comes to US (men). This ticks me off also. My wife thinks men just want SEX, that men have no feelings. I can tell you that during sex with my wife if there is no intimacy I feel we were both just cheated of something. Not to say good ole horny SF can’t be fun and fulfilling. Be prepared for no intimacy during sex for a while if you should accomplish this. I honesty am not sure if I will ever have sex with her again. This makes me very sad.You may not realize this but through this all I have seen your plan A with your kids! Know that their loyalties will lie with you! Don’t you ever doubt that. Trust me when I tell you this. They can see right through you wife as well. They know her actions are the cause of your pain! I hope so. However, they love their mother very much. My 11 year old son is a big mamas boy. You would be surprised what your daughter says to her friends about you., when you are not around. I know it would bring tears of joy to your eyes. All she can see is a man who would not stop at anything to secure her happiness! Trust me on this TA. Our children have no idea about this affair nor any problems. They think were a happy family. That's why my wife said she doesn't want a Divorce because our kids are so happy and well adjusted. I will agree with one thing your MC alluded to, you need to give your wife a huge reality check with a huge push. I agree. He met my wife twice. IMO TA you have nothing to lose at this point. Even the Harleys would agree that you can’t plan A forever. I have not seen your wife budge one little bit. Here are the changes she has shown since last Sept, 2004.
She talks to me more.
The tension is mostly gone.
We have taken a vacation together.
She allows "ME" to hug her or give her a kiss (she usually turns her cheek). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Still won't let me see her naked or in her undergarments. I've only had sex with her about 5,000x in 28 years, given her oral sex about 10,000x yet she won't let me see her unclothed again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
I feel like she doesn't want to cheat on OM. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
I'm 10x the Husband/Father than I was one year ago. I get treated like s***.
I sold my Corvette last month to make her happy. She never said one damn word. Never said thanks for selling my toy, nothing. Now I wish I had my Corvette back.
My friggin Powerboat is for sale. I stopped responding to peoples calls because I don't want to sell it. She can't figure out why it hasn't SOLD yet. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
***** her, take away ALL my Toys yet NO sex. **
That is why plan B is implemented. If plan A does not destroy the affair and all it’s ramifications plan B is used to save what love you have left and to show her how crushing life would be without you in it! At this point your wife believes you will not go anywhere and she can continue to do as she wants. Time to slap her with a dose of reality! I went apartment hunting last February and she got very upset. She wanted to pick the place herself, said she will find me an apartment nearby.
She said "why are you looking at places in the next town?"
I said I wanted to live there because in was on Lake Michigan and the town was very nice with a good nightlife.
She got ticked off and said You CAN'T live there. I said why not? She said "the schoolbus has to drop the kids off at your house everyday at 2:30pm because I don't get home until 5:30pm.
I said "that's not my problem. You should have thought about the kids before you had an affair. The kids will have to stay at out next door neighbor who is 80 years old and she loves our kids."
I told her I wanted to live in the other town because there were a lot of HOT women living there. I wanted to meet someone and get on with my personal life asap. I told her it will probably take me 2 years to find someone I really like so I don't want to waste a lot of time. You need to try some plan B stuff with her. Yes I do. I'm going to take suggestions from you guys, reread those books, then call Steve next week and get a Plan of Action. Move to the couch. We have 2 guest bedrooms fully furnished. I moved in and out 4x already. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Not sure if I want to do that again. When she acts bewildered and asks why, tell her that bed was designed with married couples in mind not with roommates in mind. Leave it at that and under no circumstances explain what that is supposed to mean. It is time to set her head spinning instead of yours. Do things as a family without her in it. I like that idea. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Don’t let her continue to play and live in her fantasy of one big happy family. That's what she's doing. Living in a friggin Fantasy. If she asks to join you, have her take her own car.. Tell her there is not enough room for her in the back seat with the kids. I own 3 SUV's and 2 cars. I don't think she is going to buy that one. It's a little too obvious. When she asks what the heck are you talking about, you simply say, that front seat was designed and fitted for my wife, not for my roommate. No further explanation is needed. Let her explain to everyone why she is in her own car! Cook only for you and the kids! She does 100% of the family dinners. She's a great cook and makes dinner about 5 days a week. I can only cook family meals in these pots and pans, that is what they were designed for. Roommates prepare their own meals! You get my point. TA, get ready for life without her and don’t hide the fact. I've started doing this about a week ago. Mainly to prepare ME for the reality that I may indeed have to move on. I'm honestly not sure if I want to stay with her. Don’t throw it in her face, just don’t hide the fact. This woman needs a wake up call. Give it to her! And TA get that stupid thought of OM winning or losing out of your head. That is not what this is about. This is about YOU winning. You will not be losing either way! If she comes back to you, you win. If your marriage ends you WIN again. Your pain will go away eventually, your kids will still be by your side, you will be free of an unrepentant, unloving wife, you will have learned what relationships are all about and what is needed to sustain them and you will find someone who would be proud to be with you! See TA, you WIN. There will be no losing on your end. I can agree with most of what you say. However, our family will be broken forever. I feel so sorry for my kids, they are going to take this hard. They've NEVER seen us fight, argue, swear, nothing. They must think we have a great home. TA time to get “mentally” fit. This is what I've been preparing myself for the last few weeks. It's called REALITY. I think I've been in denial. You can’t lose at this point. Show her you are consolidating your life to spend without her. I am doing that so it won't be a lie. As of Jan 3, 2006 only 4 months away, I'm gone. Plan B very dark except for my kids. And when it is time for a dark plan B, don’t you dare leave those kids with your “roommate”. I love my kids and I consider myself a great father. My kids know that DAD loves them very much, I tell them almost daily. My teenage daughter hates when I say this. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> They need a parent! I would suggest you leave the house only to let her look around everyday and see what she has done to HER life. Let her wallow in self pity and sadness. That's what I feel she is doing now. Search the house for some pictures of the whole family together in happier times. Put them into some frames that can’t be ignored. Post them prominently in the house before you go plan B. Good idea, I'm going to do that this week,. Great idea. When you are gone they will eat at her soul every time she sees them. This is not revenge TA, this is your reality check slap upside her head. I don't want Revenge. I just want her to WAKE the He** UP. TA you really are in my prayers every night. I don’t know how some of you are still going. It's simple. I love my wife and kids. I want our family to stay intact. However, even I have my breaking point. MY MC said it's time to move on. Get mentally well TA. You owe it to yourself and your kids. Thanks so much.
Last edited by Justuss; 08/31/05 10:56 PM.
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TA, I think you should fax SH a copy of what you posted to Ark, then make an appointment to discuss your options. I always fax Steve about 6-7 pages before our meeting. Drives him nuts. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> I remember a while back you told your wife you were not willing to live like this, and she cried for a long time when you held her in your lap. You really had her attention at that point and I know you felt some hope. That was back in February when I was apartment hunting. I think Ark has some great points too, but I don't know if practicing some 180 stuff will be a strong enough message for your wife. I think it will help, but I truly believe the ONLY thing that will work is Plan B.
Here's why?
She has soooooooooooo much Pride. Doesn't want to admit she made a Huge mistake.
She is stubborn as He**
She won't admit who OM is or tell me what really happened unless I really have left. I don't think she'll tell me unless she sees that I am NOT coming back. Even then she'll have a tough time telling me. She knows that I am 100x smarter than this OM and I will destroy his life. His credit, job, career, whatever I can destroy I will. I may not hit him because I may have to Promise her I won't kill the F'er. Yours is a difficult situation. I would hate to see your 11 year old have to go through the upheaval of Plan B or divorce - but if Plan B could shake your wife up enough to participate in recovery it would be worth it. I guess no matter what Plan B always works.
If she comes back then I win. If she doesn't then I never had her.
Then I can move on and be a Great Husband to some OW. My next wife will NEVER understand why my wife left me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
I don't know how much longer you can go on like this, before your TAKER takes control. My TAKER is starting to control me. I've started thinking about other women a lot. I've started to flirt with them, mentally undress them and have sex with them.
I need to STOP these thoughts but it's so hard when you have had NO sex for 14 months.
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My suggestion for radical 180's vs full blown plan B TA was born from your implications that you would rather NOT do plan B at this time based on the children...
Here's some of my musings...
If you can STAND the idea of doing some things with time frames that you can live with....it may open up a lot of opportunities for your wife ...
When we step back the real bigger picture is getting you wife to really acknowledge the pain she has caused you...
and to take onus....
and thus far she has refused EVERYTHING
so is she looking for out of this marriage
or
does she really not know how to back down and say sorry and has she herself backed herself in to a corner that she has trapped herself in...
I think TA you need a plan that is without blame on every turn....so that each attempt of her deflection that this is her fault is met only with a smile and kiss on the head...
change your language to her
change your view of her...and communicate it to her....
I realize you talking to steve harley next week makes a lot of my suggestions mute...
but I would stop all love letters and flowers etc...
and if asked just be vague...
"Oh I really didn't notice it has been a while since I did that...Oh no bother I just didn't think you really cared if you got them."
Ask her questions right when you two are getting along well
phrase them light heartedly...
and don't really EXPECT an answer..
and don't really worry about getting an answer...
but plant the seed of your questions...
say things like....
I wonder how long knowing what a strong person you are you would stay somewhere where you don't feel welcome...
and then kind of leave the conversation....
ask questions without judgement
say things that are sort of complimentary
wife being that you so able to be with out sex in your life...I wonder how that makes you feel as a woman...? What makes a person so willing to give up a gift from God?
ask things that are global
ask things as if you find her a very curious being in a detached way...
Ask things like do you think you will be lonely when you are older....after the children are gone...
and don't give any more information on your question don't answer the why are you asking that...
just say Oh just talking hypothtical ofcourse dear etc...
plant seeds that reflect back who her actions make her appear.....
but don't power struggle them and don't expect or wait for REAL answers...
also
be HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY...but seek all happiness outside of her and her universe....
Put a tune and whistle in your step
come home in a great mood allude to funny things that happened during your day...but don't eleborate...
'oh you wouldn't be interested in that stuff"...type of answers.....
DEFINITLY go out without her make some plans that you spring on her at the last minute...
when questioned be illusive with response..
"Oh I didn't imagine that you would be interested in going to that place....you barely talk to me....so it didn't enter my mind that you would want to go..."
"I remember you once liked to that...but it's been so long since you have shown any interest or enjoyment in doing that I just assumed you wouldn't go...etc...
If you can't or are not doing full plan B definitly do radical movements...
I'm talking after the kids are settled on a friday or Saturday night...
GO OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'
with a smile humming a tune..
say...you know you don't want to do anything with me...I'm crawling the walls here...I'm just gonna run out for a bit..
be back soon.....
and go go go go go...
and when questioned answer back with her actions..
you don't show any interest in me why would you be concerned where I am....
I really think based on your treatment that you don't care for me....
I am lonely and I don't want to be lonely anymore...and I am not going to be...
I find no joy in this home
don't argue any of it.....
ARK
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