General question here -

Let's say you met a lady you like. You call a few times, ask her out, she goes. All seems to go well..You both admit to being very attracted to one another. You feel very connected from the first time you met.

Then comes the kiss..the guy gets alittle aggressive sexually. The lady says that's far enough..Next date, guy right away gives a kiss then full attention all of the date..still feeling very connected ..end of the night..a kiss then again aggressive..woman again stops him..Third date, it all happens again. The woman tells the guy she's very attracted to him but is not ready for a sexual relationship. She doesn't feel she's leading him on at all - she wants to be treated like a lady and build emotional relationship first..

Next day - guy says he's sorry..He explains that - he wanted her to know that without a doubt he was attracted to her..he was afraid that if he didn't make moves she would think he wasn't that interested and didn't find her attractive. Even though, he verbally told her he was. He also said - we'll you went along w/it..and she did but she still didn't want to cross the final boundary so she again stopped him. No hard feelings, she just set her boundary for now.

Is he after just sex???? Do guys looking for more than just sex act this way??? Do guys fear that woman won't know they are attractive or feel sexual if the guy doesn't make a move on them???? Can guys feel extreme attraction when they first met a woman?? Not just a sexual attraction but the whole package.. Most woman aren't looking for a one nite stand - yet, they want to play part of the game for awhile..Most woman don't want to met up w/a "player"..

ITHURTS you are asking a lot of questions that are only tangentally related. Some men are just after sex. Some men have problems with impulse control. Some men are clueless about female sexual psychology. Yes, a man can be strongly attracted sexually and to the whole package within seconds. The smart guys, the one's looking for more, understnad that the anticipation make the first sexual encounter so much more wonderful. But don't expect this from younger and less experienced men.

Don't say that most women aren't looking for just a one night stand, because an awful lot of them most certainly are. I've never been into one-nighters and have only had a handful in my entire life. In ALL cases the women seduced me, not the other way around.

I'm not a guy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />, but I've been seeing someone for 2 weeks, and we've had 5 dates, and have been "exploring" these areas. I understand that you want feedback and answers here, and maybe you'll get some. But.... what we are finding in our journey, is that there are no rules, no generalizations... everyone is different... assumptions and expectations are dangerous... and the only way to survive these first few challenges (well, the only way to survive long-term) is commmunication. You have to get things out in the open. All men are different, just like all women are different, and then put us together in a relationship, and we move at different paces. Ya'll just need to keep the lines of communication open!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Good luck!

If a guy doesn't attack you at every opportunity, then there's no doubt about it: He's Just Not That Into You.

OK, my previous response wasn't particularly helpful. Or accurate. Can you see a bit of frustration peeking through?

I can speak only for myself, but I have yet to feel "extreme attraction" on a first meeting. I can feel an instant attraction, but for me that comes in various flavors (some sexual and some not) and it isn't something I would ever take seriously. I believe that an instant attraction involves a lot of inaccessible subconscious stuff, and much of that stuff may be unhealthy. I much prefer the idea of taking a relationship slowly, until I have a chance to get all that stuff sorted out.

But what hits a nerve with me is the question "Do guys fear that woman won't know they are attractive or feel sexual if the guy doesn't make a move on them?"

Let's twist that question just a little bit: "Do guys fear that women won't feel a spark if the guy doesn't make a move on them?"

I'm afraid that may be true. As far as I can tell, I am perennially cast in the "friend" role, and I suspect it may have a lot to do with the fact that I treat women with respect and do not push their boundaries. On paper I should be a great catch, and I've heard women say as much. But in reality women seem to want a man, and that seems to connote a certain degree of aggressiveness. Alas, if that means that the only way I can ever spark the interest of a woman is to push myself on her, then I will forever remain single.

Gnome (love that word play, btw!), I once would have said that instant attraction isn't possible. Until I met her.....

Several years ago, I was at a meeting where various people from around the country who worked for my company all attended a meeting at headquarters. You know, one of those deadly dull, week-long events. On the first day, I was sitting at a conference table trying not to drool on the agenda before the morning session started. Something got my attention. I am not making this up: I felt this woman's presence before I saw her! I started looking round and found her seated three seats away from me. It wasn't just that she was stunningly beautiful and incredibly sexy. She was also very professional, reserved, demure and her every movement was a demonstration of not practiced, but natural, femininity. I could have taken her on the spot!

Needless to say at the first break, I took the opportunity to introduce myself and chat with her. As it turned out, we had had some small business corresponance about a year earlier and that had been very pleasant and cordial. We chatted again at lunch and we ended with her asking me to join her for dinner that evening. Well, we were off! As it turned out, we were both tasked to serve on a committee to gather requirements and put together a strategic plan for a new initiative. (thank you Fates!) Over the next several months, we'd be travelling to various cities for meetings. It became very apparent that we were very strongly attracted to one another. We liked the same foods, music, art, etc. and we spent quite a bit of oour free time together while on these trips going to dinner, concerts, museums, gardens and the like. There was a strong sexual tension between us, but both of us were reluctant to act on it. It was three months before we finally made love and it was the most incredible experience of my life. To this day, it seems like a dream and it only got better from there.

Our relationship lasted about a year. Unfortunately, after all the travelling together was over, we didn't have a lot of time to spend together, since we lived in cities about 1500 miles apart. With working all week long, and then spending Friday and Sunday nights on red-eye flights so we could be together, our relationship was rather exhausting. Eventually, we decided that the romantic part our relationship simply could never work because there were just too many obstacles. That was over 15 years ago and we remain friends to this day. Now we only chat on the phone a few times per year. We spent a weekend together last year (no sex) and had a ball.

I've heard it said that you may love many in your life, but you only get one true love that you take to your grave. I believe she was mine and I knew it the moment I laid eyes on her. Too bad life doesn't always go our way.

Yes, guys need signals back from a lady that they are interested. Just initiate some affection with him tells him a lot. A soft warm hug, kiss his cheek, rub his back as you walk by. That should give him signals.

But, he sounds a little pushy for sex. If a women said no to me I would slow my advances down for quite a while.

Also, if and when you do decide to have sex, pay close attention how he treats you after. If he suddenly doesn't offer you as much romance, then maybe he isn't such a good guy. If offers you even more and seems even closer to you, then you may have a good thing going.

Good luck!

[color:"red"]Is he after just sex????[/color]

Could be, but may not necessarily be.


[color:"red"]Do guys looking for more than just sex act this way???[/color]

Yes. I can be this way. And I can say that I have never had casual sex, my whole life. I will push the boundaries to see where it will go. There are many many levels of intimacy before actual intercourse. I like the intimacy even if it doesn't culminate into intercourse. Once I get to one level of intimacy, then I'll try another level to see if she is receptive. If she stops and sets the boundary at that point, I stop. But, more likely than not I will test that boundary again at some point in the future to see if it is still there. If not, I progress to another level of intimacy.

NOW, if he's there kissing you and he's trying to take your pants off right away, then I'd say he's in it just for the sex.


[color:"red"]Do guys fear that woman won't know they are attractive or feel sexual if the guy doesn't make a move on them????[/color]

Ha! I just usually blame it on the fact that I'm a guy.

But on the other hand, if he's a stereotypical "nice guy", then he knows that he can end up in LJBF (lets just be friends) land if he doesn't get her to think of him in a sexual light. And that's beyond just being attracted to him. So there is some truth there.


[color:"red"]Can guys feel extreme attraction when they first met a woman?? Not just a sexual attraction but the whole package..[/color]

Yes. But typically its the sexual attraction at first.


[color:"red"]Most woman aren't looking for a one nite stand - yet, they want to play part of the game for awhile..Most woman don't want to met up w/a "player"..[/color]

Of course not.

Here's the deal. To some guys no means maybe. Some guys don't care what no means. To some women no means no. To others no means try harder. To others no means maybe on the next date, 20 minutes from now, or never. The confusion comes because either the man isn't picking up on her signals (or paying them no heed) or she's sending the wrong signals or mixed signals.

If a woman does not desire sexual contact with a man, she must maintain clear boundries. The best way to do this is not allow yourself to be in an intimate situation in the first place. Ladies, you have to undestand how a man's mind works in regard to sex. If you willingly enter into an intimate situation, allow a man to kiss you passionately and reswpond in kind, an automatic program turns on and he's off to the races. This doesn't excuse caddish behavior and a woman is allowed to change her mind. If she does, he must honor that. But only the first time. If a woman repeatedly allows a man to knock on that door, opens it, but then doesn't invite him in, he should stop seeing her.

Here's my personal rules on sex:

1. Don't attempt to initiate sexual contact to soon. Get to know her and what her attitudes about sex are. Usually there will be some clear out-of-the-bedroom cues that she also desires contact when she's ready.

2. Pay attention! How is she responding to me? Is she sending signals that she's into me or is she sending me signals that she finds me nice, but not in "that way." Watch her body language. Does she lean into me when I'm talking to her? Does she withdraw when I enter her personal space or welcome me? Does she send me common, often unconcious signals like gently touching my forearm while she is talking to me? Do her eye's dialate when she looks at me? Does her breathing become shallow and faster when I come close to her? If I touch her lightly on an erogenous zone, does she respond invitingly or tense up?

3. No means no. But I get to ask why.

4. While I do not follow the "three date rule," there does come a time when, if the relationship is going anywhere, there should me a natural and mutual desire for sexual contact. If that doesn't happen, switch to friendship mode and end any and all romantic overtures. Politely explain this, knowing that she may not be interested in a friendship with a man (some women just aren't).

5. If at any time I see that I'm being teased, it is over. That is, if a woman is stringing me along, being sexually flirtacious, facilitating intamcy, but then saying no, no, no, she's playing me and her real intention is to use me as a wallet. See ya.

6. She must have a healthy attitude toward sex. That is she must be a active and willing participant and enjoying the encounter as much as I am. She cannot be submitting to sex only because it's what she's supposed to be doing at this point in the relationship. She cannot have any hang ups or be guilt-ridden about her sexuality. At the other end of the spectrum, while it is healthy for a couple to explore their sexuality and try new things, these explorations should occur after the basics of the sexual relationship have been established. Moving directly into unusual or "kinky" sex acts right from the start is a major red flag for me. The best time to find out if she is sexually compatible is well before the clothes come off.

7. Finally, being horny is a problem I can mitigate all by myself. I don't have to have a woman to take care of this, though I may strongly desire one. So, in order to keep from jumping into something that can go really bad very quickly, I must always think with the organ that resides well north of the beltline.

I like your rules Check. Can I propose another one or two?

First, a guy should never kiss her on the 1st date. Sends a strong signal he's the right type of guy, shows he respects her, leaves a good impression, and gives him a chance to get to know her better before getting intimate. It also drives 'em wild, makes the woman curious and more aggressive on the 2nd and 3rd dates.

I think that's a minority position among men though; some women seem to love that approach, some men don't agree.

Second, when the guy is ready he should ask if he can kiss her. Same reason; for a certain type of woman (i.e. the type I like at least) it makes a huge impression. And shows that the guy respect her.


ITHURTS, it sounds like you have a similar philosophy. Possibly you want your date to show you he respects you before anything else?

IMHO you've set your boundaries, if he doesn't respect them next time I guess you know he's too dumb or disrespectful for you to want to be involved with him.

Check, sometimes your posts really irritate me, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />, and sometimes we see eye-to-eye... THIS one is great, in my opinion. I like your rules!

Ah, yes, I didn't address the first date kiss, because I rarely find it appropriate. A two-handed handshake is best. A one-handed handshake is too businesslike, while the two-handed is warmer and the bit of extra contact send just the right signal. Some times a kiss is approriate if you've really wowed one another. A mostly lost, but gallante act is the kiss of the hand. Gent's if you want to woo her with this, remember, a gentleman does not bow to kiss a lady's hand. The etiquette is to take her hand gently by the fingers, raise her hand to your mouth and lightly touch your lips to the top of her hand, lower her hand and continue to hold it for a second or two. Here's the important part: make eye contact with her as you take her hand and do not break it until you've completed the act. This takes a bit of practice to pull it off with finesse, so practice on your dog, or the guy in the cube next you you at work.

If you are really wowd and must kiss, a light peck on the cheek or forehead is as far as it should go. Again, eye contact is a must.

"sometimes your posts really irritate me"

We aim to please. You know, my mother sued to save something bvery similar. LOL

I think after the first "wave-off" I would have proceeded MUCH more carefully WRT to the kissing with my new lady friend. At that point, I would rely more on what she was telling me, rather than trying to impress her with my cautious assertiveness

This is SO hard to judge, having not been there, but RESPECTFUL men do back off a good distance if they have been nicely told "a little too far...too soon".

I'd be suspect of his motives with it happening more than once.

WNB

In general I'm leery of guys that try to go too far too soon. Who wants to kiss a stranger?

V.

Ditto to Faith on your Rules Check. Very well stated.

My opinion on the first kiss differs a bit though. It soo depends on the type of date, how well the date went for me and for her, and the general mood of the moment.

For lunch dates or coffee dates that make up the majority of my first dates, kissing ain't gonna happen. The setting is just wrong and you honestly don't know if the person is interested in you until they agree to a second date. You just don't go around kissing people who aren't interested in you.

Now, if for some reason the first date is a 'regular' date, then kissing may occur. If the date is going well where we took advantage of our fair city's free downtown festival and listened to Big Bad Voodoo Daddy and Jars of Clay (did I mention it was free?) and she paid for her strawberry shake-up and my lemon shake-up when I was in line to buy a strawberry crepe... and she's giving off very good signals (holding hands, having fun, laughing)... and when you walk her to her car and the mood calls for it... JUST KISS HER ALREADY. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I've asked permission for a first kiss, and I've just done it. I don't know that there is one right answer for every occasion. I have seen the "ask permission for the first kiss" put to women before and a surprising number are put off by it. It can be seen as weak and wishy-washy. (not all women saw it this way, but a number of them did) Sometimes women just want men to take initiative. It displays confidence which adds to your attractiveness.

Getting slapped down three times in a row shows that this guy has a lot learn about dating. He is pushing to fast. There are plenty of ways of letting a woman know you are interested without getting to sexy on the early dates.

On the other hand, if by the 3rd date, she is not showing some romantic interest, like participating an a very nice kiss, holding hands, and a bit of touch, then it's time to break camp and head for the next female. There are plenty out there.

OK, I'll bite. What's an "integrated male"? Do share!

I agree with the other posters - the general question is unanswerable.

Some women will get furious about a guy trying to as much as touch them ("How dare he!"), others will get offended if he doesn't try to at least kiss them ("Is he gay??"), etc etc.

I have met women who wanted to have sex on the first date, as well as those who played the "all talk and no action for three months" game (hence violating Check's Rule #5 <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />), and everything in between.

The bottom line is that it is meaningless to generalize. It all depends on the woman and her personal preferences.

Of course this is also what keeps us guys so hopelessly confused, because there is always the risk of being either too "pushy", or, as Gnome said and I can sympathize, being so "gentlemany" that the woman assumes that you are not interested and you become relegated to the "just friends" status.

What I have tried to do in my recent dates is to follow the woman's lead and see where she wants to go. It is usually quite obvious if she is ready for a kiss, as it is if she is not. As far as going much beyond kissing, that too is usually pretty obvious, as the whole issue of STDs or "you are probably too tired to drive home" usually comes up...

But probably the worst thing for a guy is a woman who is all over him, but suddenly pulls the plug if he crosses some unexpected boundary and gets kneed in the groin. It can be awkward, but of course the wise man will learn his lesson and not try that again until more clearly invited to do so <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

AGG

<---- Very glad he has never been kneed in the groin on a date! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> LOL

Knowing how far to go with a woman is always an interesting problem for any man. Despite many years of feminism, it is usually up to the man to ask for a date, organize a date and initiate the first kiss. If a woman wants to be closer to a man she can do many things to hint or point the way, but it is almost always the man's job to make the overt move. She may walk close to him, bump into him, touch and poke him, or just look at him with a come-hither smile, but he has to make the move. Add to this the fact that many women have different expectations and it gets very confusing. I think it is generally conceded that if she won't give a romantic kiss goodnight (not a peck on the cheek) by the 3rd date then it's time to pull up stakes and move on. Other than that, who knows? Like other guys I have had women who are very prim and proper for 2-3 months and then decide it's OK to be more sensual. Others have jumped all over me on the 1st date. Most are in between.