First post...be gentle!

I've been with my H for 15 years, married for 7. We've 2 young children. Out of the blue on Sunday, he tells me, after probing, that he wants to leave and has been having an affair for 2 months with someone at his new job.

He said he only loves me as the mother of his children but is not 'in love' with me. That we've grown apart, him being unhappy for 2 years! Doesn't know if he loves the OW. In fact 'I don't know' was the answer I got to most questions. He said he was so confused he needed time to clear his head and he couldn't do this to us anymore. My 2 children saw all this <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

He's not contacted us for 6 days even to see how the children are. This is totally out of character. He is a kind, caring, gentle man who adores our children. He's never done anything like this before. I don't know exactly where he is but after a brief call from his father it seems as if he wants more time, blames himself entirely and it would seem is not staying with the OW (Although he will be seeing her at work)

I can see the mechanics behind the affair and factors which may have lead to it but feel utterly devastated and confused as to why he left and wouldn't even consider working on our marriage. What's happened to him?

Things have not been rosy, true. There's been a lot of finanicial pressure, career change, failed business venture, birth of child 2 and finally being 'forced' back into his old career so we can make the mortgage payments. Although we rowed a little more I didn't feel that there were any great changes to the core of our marriage and so I'm very shocked that he says he is so unhappy now that our prospects are brighter.

I want to reconcile and realise the road ahead will be very, very tough but I fear that he does not want to meet me half way. He seems to have given up already and is completely unaware of the ramifications of his actions.

Is there any hope?

I know that my WH had to take responsibliliy and then start to forgive himself before we were able to start making headway. Do things to take care of yourself, such as counseling and prayer, so that you will be prepared when he gives you a chance. I'm still new to this myself, but I believe that there is hope.

I am sorry to hear about you situation. There is always hope so stay encouraged and visit this site as often as you can. I am new at this myself my WH has done/said the same things but as fbwidow says take care of yourself and your children.

I'm sorry for your situation. It's so hard I know. What is going on in his head? Oh goodness, a huge fight between his conscience "superego", his "ego", and his "id" as Freud would say. He's on the fence, doesn't know what he wants, alien fog, all the things everyone here knows more than we wish we did about. It all takes time to come to a head and resolve. And careful action on your part if you want to save your marriage. I recommend the books that helped me if you're looking for guidance as well as everything you can read on this website & forum. Plan A/ Plan B and sometimes Plan D are necessary tools for you at this point. When aliens take over our husbands it is hard. The men we knew & loved just turn into some unhappy "I don't love you anymore and don't know if I ever did" men who don't know what they want to do anymore. And WE get to explain to the kids what the H*LL is going on! Having the affair is a much more powerful thing than I think you realize. It's actually an addiction. Making bad hurtful choices in your life because of short-term good feelings. Ugh. The bad news is he is probably unlikely to pull himself out of his confusion any time soon.

The good news is that I'm living proof that there are things you can do to bring things to a head as soon as possible and the fog will hopefully start to clear. Fortunately, these affair situations are surprisingly textbook, and there is good advice out there on how to handle them. This website for one. I also was tremendously helped by Dr. James Dobson's "Love must be tough." I mean, he just NAILED all the reasons for what my H was doing, how it starts by him identifying my short-comings, and how the marriage was never right in the first place. Then the WH will sell himself on the idea that the kids will be better off outside this sham of a marriage. Then he will sell your friends & acquaintances on it. And lastly, he may go as far as my H did and convince himself that this is what God wants for him. And boom, the stage is set for divorce. Dr. Dobson walks you through what to do to save your M. It helped me so much to identify what was going on in his head, as you asked in your post's title. Dr Dobson will tell you EXACTLY what's going on in his head. I feel like I memorized this book, it was such a help to me.

Another great resource, "When the One You Love Wants to Leave." I loved this book. Very helpful.

And "Hope for the Separated" brought me some measure of peace, it was the first book I turned to when he left.

Once we reconciled, "After the Affair" and "Surviving an Affair" and "His Needs Her Needs" helped a lot.

The pressures you speak of may have lead to the distance between you which resulted in his needs not being met (and I'll bet money that once you get further into this you will see that your needs weren't being met either) but they didn't cause the affair directly. He didn't do this because things were stressful. He is straying because he THINKS the OW meets his needs better. It's fantasy, but you won't convince him of that right now.

As to your question "is there any hope?" You bet there is WeepingWillow, and you've come to the right place. God be with you, this takes time.

I checked out all the books above at my library, and part of me is glad I don't even own them anymore so I don't get tempted to live in the past or have my kids see them. But if you're looking for some textbook explanations of what he's thinking and how you should react to best improve the chances of saving your M, I recommend them highly. I stayed away from long books explaining the psychology and dynamics of all different types of affairs with lots of mumbo-jumbo and sci-speak. Heck, I needed to know what to DO, not read graduate level psychology. These are Christian books, but they would be helpful regardless of your religious views. "Hope for the Separated" is extremely Bible-based, but the others mostly deal with the dynamics of the relationship.

My thoughts and prayers go with you, you can DO this! Be strong for those kids, spend time with people who can comfort you and listen to you (I could talk about NOTHING else when all this was going on and felt like such a demanding friend) and (I hope) do some reading when the kids are in bed.

Hi weeping willow,
I hope you are doing ok, I have been right where you are, and yes there is hope.. Please don't take all the blame, because if you let him he will make it all out to be your fault things weren't right. I read NOTTOOLOST's post and she's right, I would also add power of a praying wife by Storime Omartin, it helped me alot. And if it was not for my church body I could of never made it through it. H was gone 8 months but he has been home now for 20 months, it was not easy, and it is just now feeling like the alians have released my H's brain and my best friend is back. I will be praying for you and your children

I'm devasted all over again today. I've found out he's drained £300 from our joint account since he's been gone. (1 and half weeks) Some of it appears to have been spent with lastminute.com. To pay for a hotel or something?

I was so furious, I ripped up our wedding photos. That money is to feed his family. He's going to get us badly overdrawn. I feel like giving up on him now. Today I feel as if I could never forgive him. He's left me to deal with everything. I'm so terribly shocked at how reckless he's being.

I got legal advice and if we seperate it means we will have to sell the house and my children and I will have to move miles away from here in a flat. My boy is having nightmares since H left.

I'm not sure I have the strength to carry through with plan A. I could cheerfully rip H to shreds for what he is doing to us. When this man comes to his senses I may not want him back. How can I 'wait in the wings' knowing he is getting us further into financial trouble. When does this man get his wake up call. He will truly, truly regret this one day and the way I feel now I hope the pain is insufferable for him.

Weeping Willow,
If you haven't already, please empty the money from your joint savings account and put it into an account with your name only (and perhaps another trusted person's name on the acct - I used my Mom)... you can't afford for this to keep happening.

Document what he has done, in case you need it in court later.

Carrying on with Plan A has it's place, but I think primarily when there is some contact on the part of the WS it is effective. Plan B can move to Plan D (Divorce), but when WS sense your resolve that is usually what makes Plan B so effective - that you just might follow through. That feeling of "when he comes to his senses I may not want him back." Yeah, you might not him back, but if he does wake up one of these days and regret what he's done, you may be surprised at your willingness to give him another chance.

Many here can attest that their marriages are better than they were before the A in some ways. It's very very painful to go through, though, you'll get no argument from me.

If you can hold off on the separation (with the ramifications of selling the house) that might be good. Ideally when in these trying emotional times you can set yourself up to make as few important (and permanent) decisions as possible.

Stay strong for your children, they need things to remain as stable and calm as possible right now. I know that is so hard. I hated that feeling sometimes around my kids like I was coming right out of my body, because I was in so much pain and if I couldn't be talking to someone about that was going on I felt like I was going crazy.

Your anger is natural. He's lost in the alien fog. It helped me to picture that my H was the one in the center of the tornado, I was far away looking on. I will pray for calm, peace, clarity and wisdom for you. Do you have a good support network of friends, co-workers and/or relatives?

Thankyou everyone for all your replies.

Fortunately I do have an excellent support network around me and 'I've talked the hind leg of a donkey' since DDay.

I spoke to H's father today. It would seem H is throwing himself into his job working mornings and evenings. FIL is fairly convinced H is in depression which is what counselors that I have used have also suggested. I told FIL about our account and what a seperation means to us financially. I told I feared H was about to go on a spending bender.

H has not phoned here still and is thorougly burying his head in the sand.
Exactly how do I start to reach H now. Should I phone and suggest a family afternoon out or a meeting with just us two? I'm certain I can cut out the LB's on the occassions I see him. I know one of his EN's would be Admiration but how do I 'admire' him without him feeling manipulated and being totally confused by my behaviour? He will be expecting a reaction as that's what I always do.

We have to talk about money which is a very contentious issue with us. I think I will suggest seperate accounts to protect my family.

I'm so glad you have a great support network. It's just critical!

I'm also glad that you are talking to your FIL. Your H may be depressed it's true. Mine was. However, finding himself in this moral pickle adds to the depression immensely. After all, he stands to lose you and everything he's worked for, but then he's got all these feelings toward the OW that he doesn't know how to label. My H became suicidal at the apex of all of this, and was hospitalized for three days after I removed a shotgun from his trunk after he bought ammo... yeah, this can make one depressed. Do the people suggesting this depression know about the OW? Because an OW explains an AWFUL lot to anyone who's been down this road. His confusion, changed behavior, restlessness, recklessness, and selfish behavior are typical of an affair.

Although I rarely if ever initiated contact during our separation, if there are things you need to discuss that might be okay. I would say definitely a meeting with just you two, no kids, under the circumstances. Just too unpredictable what might come up, it's hard to feign a happy family outing under the circumstances.
I am glad to see that you have learned and are thinking about your LB's and his EN's. I would definitely understand that you can't sit there and tell him how much you admire him right now. What worked to turn things around for us though were some late night phone conversations (actually when we both thought things were over with us) where I told him a lot of the things I had realized about my behavior in the marriage and towards him. This was before we even knew about LB's and EN's. He says that me holding the mirror up to myself instead of just to him made him feel like the things he was thinking bad about me, (how I could never change, how our relationship would always be unequal, how everything was my way or the highway) which he was using as his justification to end the marriage were maybe not unchangeable. Like if I was realizing these things, then maybe all was not lost and the marriage deserved another shot.

That, naturally, was when the OW then suddenly decided she was "pregnant" which he fell for completely. She wasn't then, but she was later...

Anyway, eventually these conversations turned out to the the seeds of what turned the tide for us (sorry about the mixed metaphor there... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Telling him you are starting to think through some of these things might do the same for him, get him thinking. Anyway, it sounds like you need to get the money situation to a point you are comfortable with. Separate accounts is fine, but if don't plan to file a formal separation you will need to agree on an amount that he will continue to contribute to what is now your household and the support of the children. We mutually agreed on a weekly amount that we handled ourselves without the court. Of all the problems we did have, he didn't want the kids to lose their house, and he always supported them as he committed to when we discussed it.

He's a crazed lunatic right now and nothing he does makes any sense at all. YOU must take charge now.

First: Expose his little "problem" to anyone (family, friends)who values your marriage and family. I did this to my wife one crazy day over 12 hours and 300 miles of driving. By the end of the day she didn't have a shoulder to cry on, but our marriage had a huge safety net.

Second: Quit ripping things up. Keep a cool head for your kids' sake no matter how angry you are.

Third: Make yourself the most perfect wife you can be. The "Plan A" idea gives the WS something great to come back to. This is how it worked for me: I claimed the moral high ground (with actions, not words); I improved as a father; I improved as a husband; I got myself into great shape- making me more physically desirable and keeping anxiety levels manageable through exercise.

It kind of sucks to be real nice to a WS when they're being a horse's [censored], but look at it as self improvement and it's easier. Plus, it'll make your marriage better when he does come back (stats say he will).

When I talked to my father in the beginning of my FWWs exposure, I was taking divorce and he told me 2 things:

#1: "Don't F-up my grandbabies."
#2: "This is a sickness. Would you leave her if she had cancer?"

Great advice, keeps me on an even keel.

Good Luck!

Thanks for your continued advice on this matter! I find it so helpful to read your posts and 'get with the programme' when I start to waver and want to throw in the towell.

I sent H a text asking if we could talk on Sunday and to let me know as I may be going out... no reply

What's up with this non-communication thing? No calls, no response. Does he think this can go on indefinately? All his negative traits are horribly magnified at the moment. I despise what I perceive as him being weak and an utter coward unable to face me.

Today I'm mostly feeling angry (in case you hadn't noticed!) The kind of anger that's seductive in that it feels empowering and takes away the hurt for a while. No doubt tommorrow I'll be on the floor in despair again...all part of the process.

Did he ever call you to talk today?

I don't know why he doesn't want to talk. I would recommend just leaving it at business for now, as far as what you initiate.

Affairs and the corresponding events have a way of magnifying negative traits.

The anger you feel can be used. Men have real radar about knowing when a woman has had enough. Once that anger and resolve builds up to the point that you don't even know if you want him back and he senses that, it will make him question his decision to leave.

"What, you mean that it's not all up to me? My WIFE might leave ME? And not care if I want her back?"

Wow, that's a scary thing there that happens for the WH, and it can bring fence-sitting to a halt quickly. It also has the nice effect of giving the BW back some control, and it feels so good to have some control back after everything being completely out of your control to such a disastrous level. The ONLY problem, is from time to time he really does want to be with OW, or you really can't forgive him later, and you end up divorced.

I agree with mflake's father's #2, that it is a sickness, but it's a stubborn one. Sometimes nothing turns a WS around but the realization that they may lose their family even if they decide they want it back. That's why Plan B is so highly recommended here when it comes at the right time. Plan B also provides a measure of peace for the BS.

Why no contact from your H? It sounds like he's a mess right now. Again, have you exposed the A to your FIL?

Thanks for your reply.

Yes the A has been exposed to all family and friends.

WH came around today and we spoke at length about everything.

He felt there was no way back for us and we couldn't be together but wasn't considering divorce. He said he was very unhappy with his life. (classic mid-life crisis!) The things he brought up about our marriage were true and he has not rewritten history. He takes equal blame for the downslide and complete blame for the affair. He basically said he just could not emotionally invest in our relationship anymore. He apparently has steered clear of the OW woman too. He said I could have all the proceeds of the house etc.

It was all very surreal. He said he still found me attractive, cared for me deeply was his normal gentle self, held my hand wept a bit and when I asked if he thought we could ever be together again in years to come a la Burton/Taylor style he said yes he could see that.

He's going to get a room somewhere and seems quite prepared for financial ruin, not having the kids in his life everyday etc. I said are you sure you might not regret this one day and he said that he may very well regret it but still could not stay.

He hugged and kissed me goodbye, said he'd missed me and it still seemed as if he loved me even though his actions were saying something else. He wants to remain friends and is prepared to still have family days out and contact from me and to help with odd jobs if need be.

He'll be around everyweek to see the children so Plan A should be easy to implement particulary as there is no hostility from him.

He actually didn't seem to be very involved with the OW and admitted it was more or less an excuse to leave the marriage... is this an exit affair then?

I can't give up on our M yet, there seemed to be such a depth of feeling there still. Is he having his cake and eating it here?... I really did not feel that was the case but I'm sure you'll all enligthen me. What would be my next move?



Many Thanks for listening again!

P.S Also should say that the lastminute.com transaction was NOT for him and OW (found the order confirmation in his email)

IMHO, I'm not sure the affair has ended. However, you are perfectly positioned to do a great Plan A. Sounds like he's being about as reasonable and thoughtful as you can expect right now. Why the disappearing act? Did he say?

Run a calm Plan A plan and be patient. Don't pressure him about his decision to leave. If he wants to go, let him. But be careful about being his emotional security blanket, too. It's one thing to be polite, kind, and nice to him - it's another to answer the phone at midnight and talk for 2 hours. Although, back up, my WH & I did that several times and it helped him see what he missed. But more of that would have assisted his cake-eating.

I would say no s*x during this duration, kiss & hug goodbye one thing, but don't put yourself in the situation later to find out the A was still going on and you believed him that it wasn't.

Perhaps he has ended the A, perhaps he really is just trying to have an exit A.

But boy oh boy we were in your situation last summer '04, and he just felt so torn. By the way, he repeatedly offered me "everything" but it was apparent that was really conditional on him being with OW so they could be financially secure (she makes good $). He couldn't afford to be as generous once the A ended and I actually filed for divorce. But it's good that he wants to take care of the kids financially. Not being around them will wear on him eventually also, as he realizes what he is throwing away.

Read the intro post here by WAT for advice on dealing with the aliens. Also, read about EN's and LB's (I can tell you have some already) and really come to terms with what you have done in the M to lovebust instead of build. If he sees potential for real change on your part, he may have more hope about the M.

I was the one who thought we might get back together in 2-5 years... instead it was 2-5 months, using MB principles and counseling by Dr. Chalmers. And she's in the Phillipines, so don't feel like the time difference is a reason you couldn't get phone counseling from her. She's way off our zone, and it's never been a problem.

Stay the course with Plan A, and give him space. Other than today, I highly recommend that you not reach out to him. If, make that when, he contacts you, give as much time & energy to it as you feel is right at the time.

He's torn right now. I still recommend Dr. Dobson "Love Must Be Tough".

Keep posting, so much wisdom and experience here for you to tap into.

What I talked about in my last post "You mean my wife might not want ME back after an affair???" can be such a wake-up call and end the fence-sitting in short order. But it must be used at the right time. (Plan B/D). As everyone told me, you'll know when you get there if it's time. And I did.

For now it sounds like you are doing a great job, you must have patiently listened without judging for him to reveal so much. That's good.

I've just had the most wonderful counselling session. The therapist is the first person in 2 weeks who's been able to shift my thoughts to ME instead of the relationship.

During the 1 hour spent with her I've already realised where lot's of my fear and anger come from. I feel strangely positive at the moment. Like I've caught a glimpse of how I can be happy with or without WH. I like this positivity. Pessamism seems to have just brought be misery. Like a self fulfilling prophecy.

I have no spritual beliefs but I've always been interested in other peoples. I feel today that this is something I might try and explore now.

Please remind me of this post if I start to slide into despair again!!

I'm so glad that you found a great counselor. You are so right, my life got so much more sane when I realized that I would be okay with or without him. And you know what? It got A LOT better once I realized my girls would survive, too.

I came to the realization after a long conversation with a girlfriend that staying together for the kids didn't guarantee their good choices in marriage. Once I realized that, I realized they would be okay. Don't get me wrong, I'm still REALLY REALLY REALLY grateful that we're back together, and think the kids are doing MUCH better than when we were separated or if we were divorced.

But I had to get okay with what I had no control over.

In my faith, Christianity, we call that surrender. Surrender is giving everything over to God. He is in control, He has the plan, and He takes care of us. I hope you do investigate your spirituality. God gave me IMMENSE peace, comfort, clarity and wisdom during that awful time.

I wish the best for you, keep posting.

Thanks for your continued support NotTooLost.

I'm very troubled at the moment. WH says he wants me to have to proceeds of sale on house so I can buy a smaller property in the same area so DS doesn't have to be uprooted from school, friends etc. We have to sell ultimately as he can't support himself outside and us in this house.

I've been advised to move very quickly on this as things tend to change rapidly a few months down the line and he may change his mind. I'm so torn between my heart which wants to go into plan A and sit it out. This would risk very serious loss of financial secruity for the children and I if WH decides he wants half the proceeds (He'd be legally entiled under UK law) I just don't know where or how we'd be able to live. If I go straight into Plan D I would be more likely to secure their future but lose my marriage.

As he seems to have no intention of reconciling, perhaps it is completely over already. I doubt he'll be prepared for me filing for D. He'll probably take it as me trying to get back at him which it is not intended as. I still want to reconcile but I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I NEED MY COUNSELLOR!!

Call her! She should be willing to see you more often during a time of major decisions like this I would think.

I would caution you strongly about doing anything where you need to "move very quickly" - the situation you are in usually calls for slow methodical time-taking.

There were times last summer where if we could have done a 5-minute divorce my WH would have signed on in a heartbeat. Months later we would have been SO SORRY that we sold our family home. If your heart is telling you to sit it out, and you can afford to do so alittle longer, I would. Actually, at least in the states, a property decision made by either of us in a time of guilt/stress that was highly one-sided would have not been reviewed positively by the court anyway from what I understand. As you said, he'd be entitled to half the proceeds.

Yes, he seems to have no intention of reconciling. It's been what, a month? Not nearly enough time for a decision of this magnitude. Is there anyway you and he can come to an agreement about money/house payment/parenting time with your son, and child support so that you can buy some time?

I've been doing quite a bit of research on the legal aspects. It does appear if we can agree things together we can sign a Deed of Seperation. This outlines finances, childcare etc. It's not watertight and the court can overturn it if it deems it unfair in the event of a D later on. I'm going to check this out with my lawyer but it may just buy us a bit more time.

I do think your right about not making any hasty decisions so soon after DDay. My MC thinks WH has not truly weighed up his decision yet. Quite evident in the fact he has no plans for his future in place!

I do so hope that WH's thoughts clear soon and not a year down the line. By this time we will have had to sell up and might not ever be able to patch it up. Yet at least I know I gave it my best shot.


Thanks for listening once again.

This arrangement should at least work for the time being to buy you some time, that's good.

I do also hope that your WH thoughts clear soon, just remember there are things you can do so speed it up. Read the posts here, and as you have been doing.

Keep up the good work with your counselor, and just remember that you're on a roller coaster ride for now, unless you like roller coasters. Then this is no roller coaster!

Be assured that things in life don't get much tougher than what you're going through now. It does get better. PROMISE.

There is no way that your WH has weighed this decision. Oh, he thinks he has, and he can maybe even convince some people of that. But he's in the fog. The alien fog. Give it time.