I have not spoken to H since last Tuesday. He got back to town from CA yesterday. I called over there now to confirm something for the weekend (he is taking care of the cats for me while I am out of town). He sounded so distant so I was distant. He is like "well, right on, talk to you later". I am so crushed. It is over.

I called there and left a message thanking him for taking care of the cats and appoligizing for sounding mean. I don't know what to do. I thought I was doing better, but now I am crying over here and in so much pain.

What do I do? He does not seem to be at all interested in talking to me. Am I just never supose to call him and talk to him again. It is so painful, it breaks my heart all over again. I don't know why I put myself in this situation yet again. I thought I was stronger, but I am so weak...

I still thought he loved me but now lately I don't even think he does anymore. I feel like the person I love so much hates me.

I am ranting, I know, but I just wish I was better... I want to talk to him in a normal way but I am afraid. Now I feel like I cannot make contact or I will yet again be the absessed women calling over there while he is not calling me...

What to do?

Daisy

Daisy - Is your husband having an affair?

Believer

I don't think so. I know that this is the infidality sight, but I need some support as well. H left in May. It has been a while but it looked as if we would work on it in MC. Then last weeks he said he just wanted to be friends and did not want to work on it anymore.

I did suspect something strange was going on because I found a hairclip in his bedroom where he is staying now (this is about 3 weeks ago). But I don't know. He said he needed space, freedom to live his own life, I believed him.

I guess if he had someone she would pick him up at the airport but he said he took several buses and then walked. I really don't understand why he would do that, he has male friends that I am sure he could have called. Although he is kind of spaced out, so he might have not thought ahead to ask and now noone was at home when he called. Who knows, I cannot think about it. He wants to be just friends. So why did he not call me?
I do realize he could have been lieing about the buses, but I really don't want to see him as a lier.

I did not offer because I offered him a ride to the airport and he said yes, and then he did not call me for days and then send me the "just friends" email. I really did not want to be used.

Anyway, I just don't understand why we cannot continue to work on it when we did go to MC earlier this summer. I feel so awful sometimes. Am I suppose to just give up????

I feel like if I try to talk nice with him, and be there I am doomed and if I do nothing I am as well.

Is there a time at which point you admit to yourself that the M is over and you are better off. Do I just give up?
Daisy

I think an affair is going on. It is unusual for a spouse to be so cold, want to be "just friends", want space, etc, unless there is an affair.

How long have you been married?

What were the problems before all of this?

believer,

We have been married 2 years in June.

We always had some times when we found it difficult to talk to each other. Many times I felt it was his depression (he has been taking medication since before I met him). His mood would change very abraptly. One minute he was there with me next he was not. I did not know how to deal with it. He just stopped talking and became distant and I felt I did not know what to do. It was there from the begining and we both just hoped (fulishly) that it was going to get better as we grew to know each other. As time went on things did not improve much but we went ahead and got married. Now, I wish we had really addressed the issue. Too late for ifs though.

Anyway, this made everything difficult. I found it hard to share with him, because he was not interested in anything I was involved in when he was depressed. Many times I felt like I was walking on egg shells, not the way to build a strong M. I tried for us to spend more time together but in MC (2 months ago) it came out that that just made him want to get away from me because he felt crowded and wanted his space and freedom. I loved him and did everything. I was the one working, cooking, cleaning, taking care of the house, etc. I am not exagerating. He would just say that he could not do it, felt really bad about it, said he was sorry, would try harder, but just could not. I tried to relax more. I was quite up tight about the house being clean (clean every week) so I stoped demanding that it be done on a schedule and tried to find other ways ("lets just do these task as we feel like"). But he just did not feel like. He was even more depressed. I could not do anything right. He felt he was not there for me, could not be there for me, and wanted out. I think he felt bad that he could not be there. He told me he was not ready for M in the letter when he left me.

Also, School was not going well for him. I did a big LB. I pressured him about school, basically was not supportive. He kept changing his mind about what he was going to do and how long it was going to take... Now it all seems so fulish of me to have worried about it so much...about our future, children.... Anyway, he was continuosly depressed and I think it finally pushed him over the edge to leave.

He just did not see a way to fix it.

I suggested MC after her left. We went a couple of times, but really we should not have. I was not emotionally at a place to work on the M at that point. I was hurting and I made demands and I wanted him back.

He kept insisting he did not want to come back, wanted freedom, space, but would try to work on it. Things were going along, not great, but I was hopeful. I really thought we could somehow find a way to each other. Then after I came back from CA (I was gone 3 weeks) everything was upside down. He was telling me all these things, how he was happier, wanted freedom, he like that he had the freedom to call me or not see me or not, did not think of me as his wife, etc. It was so hurtful, I needed a break!! I felt so used. I paid for his rent, (and my mortgage), I was there for him when he wanted me to be, when he asked to sleep with me I was there. The day I told him I needed time to think and wanted to not talk to him for some time, he asked me for money! The day before he told me not to show up at his place without calling first, asked me to buy him some cloths, asked me for a ride and then told me I can come over any time without calling and stay the night "and it will be like when we first met". It was so confusing. I really felt used.

Anyway, now he is completely shuting me out. I feel like such a fool. I mean, I felt so used then when he was "cake eating" but now, he is not talking to me and I wish he would call me and contact me. I don't want to give up on him, but he is giving up on us and I don't know how to show him that we could make it work...

Sadly, I am not convinced I can live with someone who is in a depression. I really wanted to before all this because I sadly kind of thought I would be good for him and that he deserved to have someone in his life who cared for him... and would not give up on him because of it, but now I am so confused. He takes some serious med, several, so who know if it could ever get better...

I am hurting a lot. I keep asking myself "should I just move on". It hurts so much.

I don't know what to do.
Is there still any hope?
Thanks for taking the time to write to me. It means a lot!!!

Daisy

You cannot fix someone who is depressed. How long has he been taking meds? They usually work. Does he have clinical depression, or is he Bi-polar?

Ok,
H send me an email just now. Must have been right after we talked (he has none at home so had to go to school...) Wished that I have a good time camping and not to worry about the cats (they really are his cats, but they are staying with me now). "Have a good one".

Now I wonder if that is after he listened to my message or not. I hate that I am even analyzing this.

I guess it is good he is still comunicating with me. Or not?

Is him writing a good sign? I feel so confused. I need to relax.

I am really looking forward to camping, some days away from this, NO PHONES!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Daisy

H has been on medication for just over 4 years (When I met him he was just taking them a couple of months). But as we were having problems he changed medication and then increased the dose (on doctors orders). The year before that he tried to stop taking them, "lets see what happens" (not doctors orders). I was concerned but he was so sure of himself I really did not want to intervean. Anyway, about a month ago he was telling me he was "experimenting" again (not doctors orders again). I don't know what he things he is doing. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

He has clinical depression. This is what he was diagnosed with in the past. I should point out his aunt (fathers sister) has Bi-polar. Don't know if that means anything. I guess maybe I should read up on this...

Daisy.

This is my H to a T!!!
I feel so bad for him. Now he is alone. I need to take care of myself, but at the same time I hate that he is going through this alone. Yet, he does not want me there.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

It makes me sad. I know I cannot fix it. I just wanted to be there for him. I cannot be....

Daisy

Well, you can't do anything about his choices. I am very familiar with Bi-polar disease (I have family members who have it). One of the hallmarks of the disease is not taking the meds. Also it is a disease that runs in families.

If I were you, I would read up about it. But please realize that you cannot help him.

believer,
I know I cannot. I wish I could!!! This is why the last few months have been so crazy. He is up and down and he treats me depending on how he feels. Sadly, I think he does realize it, and we cannot do anything about it.

I just spoke with him. He sounded good, but I do not have any hopes for us. I guess I just would like to get over him, move on, without us being nasty to each other. I know that staying friends is hard, and it may not be something I will be able to do, but I don't want to get over this just by being angry at him!!

thanks believer...
You know what I am dealing with. I thought I could deal with it, but I guess we both were fooling ourselves...

Daisy

You are going to have to get a lot stronger. He may not be able to help himself. It is sad, but that is the way it is.

Your best bet is to move on with your life, and make it a good one.

He may or may not get the help he needs.

believer,
Can I ask you an all together different question?

I have been reading "the divorce remedy". It suggests the 180. H is coming over for the weekend. I have moved all his stuff into the basement last week. Now I worry about what he will think. Is me moving the stuff into the basement bad for the 180 plan?

I know this is crazy of me to worry about it. But I guess I still want to make some last attempt. Although I have to admit that I am trying to move on not really hope, hoping hurts too much.

Daisy

It has been close to 2 months since H wrote me a letter saying he did not want to do MC and basically wanted to just be friends and live seperate lives.

We have been living seperate lives...sometimes I feel that if not for the 'legal document' we may as well be divorced.
I do my thing, he does his.

As far as the frieds thing goes...there have been ups adn downs....The first time we saw each other since H came back from CA on Sept 1st, H asked me to 'fool around'...anyway, we did sometime later end up having sex...I guess I was just too weak! Strangely enough, other things that have been happening besides sex, have bothered me more. The thing that did it to me, was when he came over in the middle of the night and I basically woke up to find him in my bedroom...I should have been angry (I am now - a little to late) but at the time I just lived with it...

There has been no S for several weeks but we do spend time together...I don't feel like a friend to him...He asks me for hugs, calls me by the nickname he had for me, moves around my house like he lives there, asks me what I am doing and basically presses me if I try to be vague, etc....

The things is what bothers me is, that the relationship (whatever it is) is no balanced. I have been told not to show up at his place without asking, and so don't feel comfortable just dropping by...but it goes beyond that. I don't even feel comfortable when I am there. I don't feel that I can ask him, what he is doing, what is his plan now that he quit school etc... When I asked these questions during the summer, he was very angry and would just throw remarks at me and always ended up telling me 'I am not moving back in'.... So, now I feel that I basically cannot ask anything, because I don't want to hear that respond again....I am worried that if he said that to me, I would be sarcastic or mean in my replies, because I am very far from begging him to come back!

So, the relationship has been quite confusing....
(this is to some up - my question is in the next post)

Daisy

I spoke to my IC and he said 'sooner or later you will have to talk about the relationship!

I wonder about this....will we have to?

I don't like where we are but I figure it will get better with time, I'll just accept it, even though I don't like it at all. I have been doing well moving on with my life...
I still would like to work on the M, but as I told IC that no matter how many improvements I make we will always run into a wall...H does not believe that if 2 people are ment to be together that they need to work on a M/R. So this is his issue, he would have to change.

The fact that he has depression is an issue, but I feel I could try to work with that better....I don't know how I would do, but I would try to be more understanding....
I don't know to what extend the depression has an impact on H not wanting to work on the M....

Anyway, so my IC says that we will have to talk about it eventually....

I am not so sure...

I know that MB does not work when there is depression, so I am not in Plan A or B....I am basically in 'moving on with my life but still hurting Plan'....

Yet, sometimes, I contemplate a plan B type of letter, basically stating I don't want to be friends, I want something more with you, but since you don't want that...I cannot pretend that I am satisfied with 'just a friendship' so I am going to have to cut all contact with you and maybe one day down the line we can make some attemp at being friends when I am ready....

This Plan B type of a letter...I am thinking is me wanting to discuss the R...not sure of that yet....still contemplating it all...



***** So, does every couple at some point reach a point when the R/M has to be discussed......especially after they have not talked about it for months....(2 months for me - it has not been that long ) *****

Any thoughts?

Thank you

Daisy

just bumping this one along.....

Hi Daisy,

Hair clip + "I Need FREEDOM" + "Dont EVER come over without calling!" = OP. I'm sorry, but I'd bet my last nickle on it.


It sounds like that he had many problems before, that you now wish you'd not dismissed. Marriage is a complicated relationship, he may not be capable of working on that level. Ever. He faked it for a while, but it doesnt seem he's ever been very stable, from what you said.

So he's got mental issues and a possible OP. You really still want him? If so, can you say why? I may not be the one to ask about this... What kind of advice are you looking for? Please take care - Dru

Dru,
Thanks for replying!

Ok, to your questions...

1. I would like to build my life with him. I have learned a lot during this 5 months and I still have more to learn and I do believe I can be a better partner. I was not very understanding of his depression, and I know I can do better. I LBed (no yelling) just avoidance (yes I was a conflict avoider, I guess we both were, bad combination!)..but then I would try, I really would...but I would get frastrated and LB...
However, I only want him back IF he agrees to work on it and honestly realizes that M takes work!

He has good qualities, we have good times together (not all times were bad), I find him quite interesting, I can laugh with him like with noone else, he cares about me and I care about him, he was always incoriging of whatever I did (I was not so good) etc.... Yes, that day in Aug was confusing, but I will never know if there was another W... the red flags were there but do I know 100%?, No.

The problem that I see with my H, that although he is 28 (29 next month), he is still not completely responsible..... Sadly, I did not realize it then. On some level I did not because we were both in school finishing our degrees, we were students living a student life.

H had drug problems before but you know it seemed to me that he was a success story (maybe kind of naive now). He got back to school after years of dead-end jobs and drugs and when I met him, he did not smoke, drink (alcohol nor coffe, or coke) just tea. Sure maybe that should have been a red flag (no one is that perfect!) but I really thought boy, this guy is putting his life together! H applied to a PhD program in CA and got in. He dreamed of higher education, a family, he had a plan!

Then I got a job after graduation that took us out of US. He had to wait 1 year to apply to the MA program.
So, within 2 weeks, we graduated, we got married, moved out of US, I started a new job and he, well he did not want to work!(the honey moon was over soon) I had to 'bug' him to get one, which he did (about 4 months after we got there). Then we agreed he would not work the first year of the MA. After 1 semester, he was not doing well, he started talking about switching MA programs! I had a hard time with that. I went through all he went through and more, and I just could not see how changing programs would make a difference (big LB!), he was not working hard enough(so the profs said!). He said he would fit in more with the other Progr. but it did not come of as he wanted to do it because he loved it more....he really liked what he was doing...he liked the topics...at least thats how it came out... (now he has given up on any MA program and is working as a dishwasher....I don't know his plans - I don't ask)

Maybe you are right Dru, maybe he did FAKE it. I don't deny the possibility.

Yet, there is a part of me that feels that perhaps had I been more understanding and communicative (I wasn't!) that we could have resolved some issues and he would have found it not too painful to work with me on the M and step up to the plate(as they say)....

I do see the possiblity that he may NEVER get there...I guess I want to know if there is anything I can do to show him that it is worth it to work with me.

I guess I don't want to leave any stone unturn....I realize a lot of it is his own issues (that were there way before the M) but if I end up walking away from this M, I want to know I did everything....I am not convinced of that yet.

Is there anything I can do to show him I am worth making that effor?

Or is this futile....should I just accept that it is all up to him and if he is going to 'get it' it will be on his own and I certainly cannot show him the way...


I see plan B works to show the WS a way to the M (not to give up on it)....so is there something like that for my case?

Thanks for reading! sorry it got so long!


Daisy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

just an update....

I went to dinner with H on Friday....we were suppose to meet at my office at 4pm ...but he showed up at 5:15...he did call at 4:45, was sorry, I said it was no big deal...so by then I was hungry and we went to our favorite restaurant in town....

We had a good time talking...but it really is getting increasingly difficult to "hang" out with him...

He told me he was saving money to take some classes next semester...(during the summer he yelled at me that he doesn't give a f**k about money and only cares about today and why do I care so much about money - hey I am paying all the bills!) Anyway, so I was glad to hear that...I guess he is starting to think about his future....

He was tired...he has been working a lot lately, sometimes even 7 days a week....I look at him and I am saddened by it all....I just cannot understand how he can be happier like this....

On Saturday we had met for tea and it was much harder to talk to him....we ended up sitting there for about 45 minutes...at some point I got tired of trying to make conversation....he was the one who asked to meet early (before going to a play) and have some coffee or whatever....and basically had very little to say....I got tired of trying....I was still pleasant....I asked basic questions, like what is he reading, etc. and he just acted like I was snooping into his life. He was very suspecious of my motives....eventually he said well I don't have that much free time so I am not doing much....what do I say to that??

So, I was quite depressed afterwords and had a really tough weekend....so tired of it all....

I feel like I am very near a cross road....I still think this is all a game to him....I am hurting here and his actions/choices have completely turned my life upside down...I don't think it is remotely funny that my work has suffered, yet he asks me how is work and laughs....I finally asked him what did he mean by that, by laughing and he said, nothing friend, I ment nothing by it....

So, my cross road is soon approaching....I still want to save my marriage, but I am much closer to just saving myself....and picking up the pieces of my life....

AFter six months I still cannot believe that he just 'dumped' me....at the time he left we were still talking about our plans for the future, what WE would do, our trip to Greece (in June), our trip to see our families in late Summer, our dream of owning a coffee shop together...blah blah.....we had just bought a car together(2 weeks earlier)...we bought the house together last year....we got the cats cause he wanted cats (I was not a cat person at all)...and now they are with me ...he has not even asked for them...just sais they should stay with the house....


I feel like I have been in this only 6 months so I should not give up hope....YET we have not talked about our M at all......I think he is happy I have finally got of his back.....now he can see me and enjoy my company without all the R talk....

But I am still not ready to cut all contact.....still have some hope that he will see that we love each other and we can have a life together.....I miss him when I don't see him...go through some sord of withdrawl.....but then seeing him leaves me wanting more and I am not getting more so I am just left in pain.....

I miss just holding hands across the table in a restaurant as we used to....

DOn't know what I'll do now....seems like I should not give up....stick it out a little longer....keep working on myself....but I cannot help but hope he will come back and that hope is probably futile and is just getting to me....

I have started to be really scared here.....scared of making same mistakes....or even of making new once that would lead to me being 'dumped' again and I really don't want to go through this pain again in the future.....I am loosing hope that I can even make a good partner....maybe I am just "annoying and whinny" like my H said......I did so much for this man and that is all he left me with....

It has been a crupy couple of days.....

Any thoughts are welcome....but it feels good to just get it all out anyway....

Daisy

Daisy-
I don't think you've sounded whiny or annoying at all- just
like a caring, responsible, kind person, who is trying to
deal with a tough situation and is doing their best to keep
going on with life. (we don't have much choice !)

Knowing more about your H and his background really does
sound a lot like my WH in some ways.
When we first met, during our dating time, and in our early
marriage, H really seemed to have it together. He moved
here to my town from out of state to be with me (which I
thought really showed some devotion), worked hard, got
promoted several times, we bought a house, got a dog, and
made plans for kids, building a dream house, travels we'd
take, etc.
When H's "issues" first began to show, about five years ago,
I thought "WOW", I'm really proud that he is asking for help
and willing to take meds" and thought that would take care
of the depression and OCD he was diagnosed with. Little did
I know that he would go through numerous meds and some
therapy without much result, and that our lives would go
through such drastic changes, resulting in the mess it is
now !
Your H and mine both seems to have undergone such huge change in their personalities that it's hard to know how
much is depression/mental issues, and how much is something
else. In my case, I now know that part of WH's really weird behavior has been the A. Sounds like your H could possibly
be involved with someone, but no conclusive evidence.
Makes it hard to know what "angle" to go with, but I know
it puts you in the same boat with me and so many others,
not having the M you need and deserve.
So many questions, and so few answers !

I do know, with myself, I have had lots of doubts, felt
guilt about things I've said to WH, worried that things I
did, said, didn't do, didn't say, fussed about, ETC. made
things the way they are now, but in reality, there's no
way to know if any of those things had any effect- bad or
good. I accept that there are things I could do better
or differently and would be willing to do those things if
WH elected to work on the M.
The things you did/said may have had some effect, but may
also have no bearing on the situation at all, so don't let
yourself take the burden of blame either.

I don't know if a Plan B would help in your situation or
not- I am considering it for mine.
Slammed