After being told by my lawyer on the day of mediation, not to call and pressure me about the settlement issues, that I would contact my lawyer when I had come to a decision and he would contact WH's lawyer, WH called last night on the pretense of asking about the mortgage payment and if I had made it....he then pretended to be naive and asked if we were going to go to another mediation (YES) or had I come to a decision. I told him that I am supposed to call my lawyer next week to discuss things over with him and that we would get back to him after that...he then went on to accuse me of confusing the mediation and getting off track and wasting money for both of us and that he and his lawyer were in disbelief of how mediation went and the issues that I raised...as usual he was trying to belittle me and get me to bow down to him....He has no more control over me and I think that is starting to tick him off...I just told him that my lawyer would be contacting his some time next week and hung up on him. aaarrrggghhh!!! He makes me so mad!

I'm trying so hard not too lose hope in some sort of justice..either by man (judge) or by God (JUDGE)..hehe I'm cheering for the latter......

Take care,

~Jamie~

U did fine. WS' are a selfish bunch and don't like to follow protocol. LOL!!!

Sorry he made you angry. Expect more calls and practice your RB as needed. Though I think you handled yourself just fine. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hugz,
L.

Thanks for the affirmation Orchid!! I really do appreciate it.

I just got back inside from mowing my lawns (after all it is Labor Day weekend....LOL) and found sitting in my inbox an email from WH...here's what he wrote :



Hi,

Sorry to get you so cranked up yesterday, was not my intention.



I would like to get together with you face to face to have a civil discussion regarding the kids, without them present of coarse.



Could you meet with me over coffee, can be at your house or someplace else if you prefer.

I do not want to argue and fight, but we really need to discuss them as things move forward to attempt to minimize impact on them. This is really important, as we need to be mindful of their adjustment and growth in regard to the new reality.



All fault aside (I know, it’s all mine anyway!) we have great kids and for their development they really need to know things are going to be ok, especially regarding you and I. They will adjust much better and healthier if this is shown to them.



As far as settlement, I may have a possible solution that you and I can live with, taking into consideration that you want the income from 2 rentals. I got to thinking about the offer your attorney presented in mediation, and I might be able to go along with that with some tweaking. I would like to present you with that as well, for something to consider. It makes sense to me to at least discuss viable options outside of mediation to ponder rather then wait until mediation just to have to schedule another one while the options are considered. So far our first mediation seemed to make no headway at a cost of several hundred dollars. I don’t know about you, but it didn’t feel like money well spent to me. Anyway, I don’t want to have any more discussions like yesterday as they are counter-productive as I am sure you will agree. I am hopeful that we can discuss settlement and come up with an agreeable arrangement that might minimize bitterness and resentment, all which will ultimately have even more negative impact in the future on us, and more importantly, our children.



Please let me know when we can talk, most importantly about the children, and secondly to at least hear my proposal, which leaves me still taking a hit, but to keep some peace and stability in the future, I may be willing to concede to it.



Thanks,
-A-


How should I respond to this?? He really does not get the concept of - "Leave Jamie alone and don't pressure her until the next mediation or until she has been able to make a decision" ..... what do I do???


Take care,

~Jamie~

My response w/b something short like:

[color:"blue"]WS,

I have reviewed your last e-mail. In light of our last conversation, it w/b best to handle these matters with mediation or legal advisors present.

I do agree the children need both their parents together and cooperating but as long as you have stuck a 3rd party into our M, our family can't not function as if nothing is wrong.

My children and I do not feel safe in your presence alone. Our last meeting was evidence of just that fact.

At this time, I can recommend your suggestions be put in writing and submitted to mediator. I will review them and respond the same.

I certainly wish we could be a family and communicate with love again. As long as their are tentacles attached by certain family members, the rest of us do not feel safe in face-to-face contact.

A copy of this note will be sent to my lawyer.

Sincerely,
MG[/color]

That's my opinion. Remember I am coming from the angle that your last meeting did not go well. Safety is of primary importance here. Not just physical but emotional and mental safety.

The WS seems t/b playing games. I'll bet he is proud of his letter and thinks he has you by the ropes. What he doesn't know is the noose is on his end. All you gotta do it tug. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

L.

Orchid...I like that!! sounds good... and I really don't trust him in a face to face alone...he has already proven himself untrustworthy. It would be just like him to accuse me of something if there are no witnesses around.

In the subject line of his email he titled it - "would like to have discussion regarding the kids"

But the jist of the email was more about settlement...


~Jamie~

I love Orchids reply. Orchid, your always amaze me that you can tackle almost any situation!

Jamie,
I would add that you welcome his proposal before the mediation, and he can give it to you in writting. He can give it to your lawyer, or if you feel comfortable he can e-mail it to you.

He is playing games. He wants you to 'meet him' so he can tell you. If he has a plan that he thinks you might be interested in hearing, he can e-mail you the details.

You might say 'I agree that the mediation is costly, and without a 3rd party in our marriage we could have avoided those and many other costs. I am willing to review any proposal you have regarding the settlement in writting. Please submit any suggestion to my lawer (you can say e-mail it to me if YOU feel comfortable) and I will review it.' Orchid has it right on!

E-mail me if you need anything Jamie!
Danielle

Hi Danielle - good to see ya!!

WH called 3x tonight...twice on the home phone then once on my cell phone...he left messages on both...simply stating that he would like to have the kids sometime this weekend and could I please call him as he is working late tonight.

Then just about 20 minutes ago he showed up on my doorstep..at 11:30 at night...geez..Thankfully my DD17 was here so he just stuck with his story of wanting the kids this weekend...then just kind of hung at the door and chit chatted..I wasn't rude nor was I hospitable...he didn't stay more then 5 minutes.... Unbelievable!!

Take care,

~Jamie~

Hi again... After WH left lastnight he went back to work and emailed me a couple of times..

These are the emails- first one is my response to his phone messages :

HI,

We get home from church around 12:45..... just let me know when you would like to have them and I will have them ready to go.....okay??

~Jamie~
---------------------------
WH response:

Thank you for responding.
Sorry I stopped in so late, but I was on the road and really wanted to know if the kids were available for me to have. I probably will call tomorrow afternoon to have them awhile if nothing that I can't get out of comes up.
More though, I would like them Monday as OW's DS12 birthday is being celebrated then as I mentioned to you. I'm not sure the time as of yet, but probably will be sometime late morning.
I would still like to hook up with you at some point to discuss the kids, WITHOUT ARGUING! Maybe you will be free sometime early next week?
Let me know please.
-A-

-----------------
My response :

I am working at the school all week......I really don't think it is a good idea to "hook up" as neither of us see eye to eye on certain issues...I think if you have a suggestion it would be better to have you email it and I will give it consideration and then discuss it with my lawyer... then he or I will get back to you on it. I think this would work best, because your right, It is not good for us to be arguing....


Sorry you had to see me in my sexy pj's...lol...if I new you were coming I would have worn something less "hot"....hehe

~Jamie~
p.s..
I'll be up for a few more hours if you want to email anything...okay??

--------------------------------------------
WH response :

Wow...
We have now digressed to only being able to talk either through lawyers or e-amail?
I have concern on the impact of the kids, now and in the future, regarding you and I in our dealings with each other.
I had hopes that at least after settlement is behind us that we would be able to be civil and decent regarding each other....and in regards to OW.
She is going to be involved in our kids lives and I think if you cannot ever come to acceptance of that, the kids will suffer. I am not asking you to be buddy buddy in regards to her, but to not accept things like her picking them up from school occasionally while the kids will be here with her sends them mixed messages that kinda puts them in the middle. I know you have bitterness, but she is going to be a staple in their lives as well, and will be spending time with them when they are here with me. I think it would be confusing and hard for them if you limited OW from picking them up if needed, or was reactive when we showed up at one of their games, but spends the night here when I have them.
Does that make sense to you?
What are your thoughts on this?

---------------------------------------------

My final response :

ummmmm.......I thought we were discussing settlement not relationship issues...

Sorry that I have this "moral" hang up......it is what I believe in... I stand firm on it... you used to as well......

As far as being civil and decent...by all means .. later on.... right now it is difficult to do...there is way too much tension.....my life has been turned upside down by your decision to bring a third party into the mix. Until she does this to you, I can't possibly make you understand the ramifications of all this.

Once everything is settled and we are divorced then I think things will calm down a bit on both sides.....

So let's just stick to settlement issues......one mountain at a time Tonto...okay?

----------------------

He never responded back.....did I handle this okay or does my communication skills need tweaking?

Take care,

~Jamie~

I am sure Orchid has a good reply for him! To ask that you make your plans to fit the OWs sons birthday party is SO DISRESPECTFUL! Wow....

My STBXWH tried the whole 'Well, you need to get used to OW being in the kids lives, you need to be on good terms with the OW' tactic too.

He hasn't said or hinted at that in months. He knows better. There is NO WAY I will EVER accept, nor be OK with the OW. I could go on for days why.... She came into my family, (Yes I know WH owns part of that blame, and boy oh boy does he get it) she had 0 respect for my family, morals..etc. She is nasty and I owe her NOTHING, not even a grain of acceptance. You don't owe her anything, and you shouldn't ever have to be okay with her relationship with your WH...

Also, if your WH was so worried about the well being of your children, and how they saw parents interact, then he would have been committed to keeping an intact nuclear family. He has proven that he is only interested in the children’s view of a family, as long as he isn't the one who has to give up anything. It all has to be to his benefit. Sorry you shouldn’t have to ‘play house’ in front of the kids.
WHs sometimes think that you can be ‘friends’ after the divorce is ‘out of the way’.
I have NO interest in being friends with someone who had no regard for their family, lied and cheated there way through an affair and threw their family to the curb when they ‘got bored. You can’t just hurt me time after time, divorce me, and then somehow I forget everything and we are friends? Nope….

I feel like your saying 'well eventually we can' your trying to please him... He has no interest in your feelings, and someone needs to. Put your feelings and your childrens feelings First. His come....last.

Danielle

This is a control issue. His insistance that you address HIS concerns immediately invalidates them. He's trying to draw you into an arguement.

Be firm in your stance that settlement and child visitation will be resolved through mediation. (The entire reason that mediation is necessary is that your WH is not a trustworthy person. He hasn't changed, has he?)

If it were me, I wouldn't respond to him AT ALL. He is harassing you at this point. If you give him ANY response, you are adding fuel to his persistance.

"Please cease and desist in your harrassment of me outside of the mediation process. Please forward your questions or concerns to my attorney."

'Nuff said.

Then allow his emails to come through....but forward them UNREAD to your attorney. Don't read another word he has to say. Don't answer his telephone calls. And if he comes to your door again, tell him that while you appreciate his concerns, you will not tolerate his harrassment.

If he were REALLY interested in solving the issues surrounding child visitation, he would not be bating you with the intention of exposing OW to your children, and he would not be attempting to discuss settlement issues. He's trying to get a rise out of you. You don't have to allow it.

p.s. I just went back through and read some of your earlier posts. These "control issues" seem to go way back. Sadly, this seems to be just another one of them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Don't be afraid to ask for what you need in mediation, btw. Your WH has been at liberty to develop his career over the past 15 years. You have not. Whatever you receive in settlement will have to last you for a long time.

A friend of mine who is in the process of divorce, with children approximately the same age as yours, elected to have a clause in the agreement which would disallow forced visitation. In other words, if the kids don't want to go to Dad's house....they don't have to. Same with Mom's house for that matter.

Also, in that particular agreement, third parties are NOT allowed to move into the children's home environment without certain penalties in the joint ownership of their assets. If either Mom, or Dad, allow a third party to move into the premises....settlement becomes due on the property. One will have to buy the other out, or sell altogether.

From a moral standpoint, you can refuse to sign an agreement that allows Dad to "shack up" with a romantic interest. Everything is subject to negotiation. If he wants your signature on his divorce papers....he'll need to meet your terms.

Most WS's seem to have this fantasy that they can simply recast the role of Mom (or Dad) with their affair partner assuming the lead. They don't admit it, of course, but that's what they usually have in mind. All I can say to that is.....reality bites. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Bust his bubble.

Hi Dani and Ladyjane!!

No - I don't think WH is really considering the welfare of the kids at all...He is just trying to put me on a guilt trip...which he once was very good at doing just that. Not anymore!

He does have the kids at the moment...should be bringing them home soon..then he's taking them tomorrow to go to the birthday party of OW's S12. I did take the kids out after church to buy her son a gift...I didn't want our kids to go to the party empty handed, and besides, her kids are innocent, as well as mine, in this drama.

As far as an agreement to not allow WH to "shack up" with a romantic interest (as ladyjane mentioned)....well - WH is planning on getting married to OW as soon as both of their divorces are final.

Take care,

~Jamie~

YES ... and 'cc' everything done in email back to your attorney. Let your WH know (if he's paying attention to the 'cc') that all communications between you are being read by your attorney.





This is a wonderful suggestion ... ONLY if the attorney agrees.

What the infidel says and what he does ... are not always the same !!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Don't bet on this happening immediately.

Thank you for the suggestions.....I have to call my lawyer tomorrow, so I guess I should ask about cc'ing everything to him.. although I doubt I'll be able to cc WITHOUT peeking at the email....that's just my nature..hehe

Take care,

~Jamie~

Not "peeking" protects you from the emotional chaos as well as WH's attempts to manipulate you.

While it's true that human nature will insist that you "peek", you're giving him an advantage every time that you do.

I know that you're in Plan D right now, but have you considered initiating a solid Plan B as well? Plan B will offer you at least some protection from WH's "amicable divorce" strategy. Just a thought.

I agree with Pep....it ain't done 'til it's done. Over the course of your married life, it seems that WH has had a fairly easy time dictating his preferences in the relationship. That's not likely to prove as easy to accomplish when he tries his technique in a full-time capacity on another woman.

We're talking about a woman who is selfishly capable of committing infidelity, not only to the ruination of her own family dynamic....but to yours as well. I would imagine a woman like that will have a difficult time accepting instruction from a man who wants it all his way.

Once the 'new car smell' wears off, they'll probably lose interest in one another.

As far as your settlement negotiations are concerned, don't settle for less than ALL you can legally obtain. This will tie him up from finalizing the divorce and marrying OW, but that's not your problem. Like I said before, you might have to go a looooonng time on what you receive here.

For example, in regard to the retirement benefits....you have a right to share in them. You EARNED this right as a SAHM. Why would you settle for less than you deserve?

WH and OW both brought the kids home this afternoon..I happened to be sitting outside at my nieghbor (sister's) home when they pulled in..I was back to so I asked my sister if OW was with him and she said "yes" so I excused myself and walked over to his car....she had to get out to let one of the kids out of the car but she promptly got back inside. WH came towards me and stood protectively between me and OW all the while smiling and being pleasant. OW would not make eye contact with me and believe me I was trying to...I felt ready to meet the woman that tore my world apart. But WH never even introduced us, and all this time he has wanted me (or so he's said) to meet her and he gets the chance to and just stands between us...hmmmmm...But she never once looked me in the eye.

In a sense - as I walked away - I felt victorious!!

Take care,

~Jamie~

U don't have to see the OW to make contact..... you could say something like....What's that smell coming from your car? Oh you got a strange person in there.... hm..... funny smell. (wrinkle the nose). That w/b contact. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Really OWs stink anyways. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

L.

Hahaha - thanks Orchid...lol

WH called me yesterday to say that he was willing to concede and give me my home plus the two rentals that I wanted w/o the mortgage! But I'm not celebrating just yet, as I have nothing from him in writing and before I got off the phone with him he indicated that he wants me to drop $200.00 off the child support payment...so if that is the case I might as well just keep the mortgage b/c the place with the mortgage is in better condition then one without. That one without needs lots of time and money spent of it.

OH BTW - OW's divorce was final yesterday....hence, WH willingness to concede...

Take care,

~Jamie~

WH called about taking the kids for tomorrow..then asked if I had given thought to his offer..I told him I had talked to my lawyer and we had decided not to deviate with the child support and that I was requesting 2 years spousal support...he said "alright, but after two years are you going to accept less on the child support also?" I said "NO", and told him that I really needed the child support to stay were it is at.. he said "fine, then I am not going to take the $100,000.00 hit and we'll just go to mediation and hopefully get divorced by summer.

He then proceeded to tell me that he is going to have the rental income put into an escrow account and that niether one of us will have control over that until after the divorce. Can he do that or is he blowing smoke up my skirt?

Am I sounding like I'm trying to take him for a ride?? If I am somebody tell me, cause I really don't want to be vindictive....I just want to make sure I can make it on my own.

Take care,

~Jamie~