W/S's comments make me feel like I am to blame for the reason his mother has to be moved to a new facility. Last night, after his comments that made me feel like the whole thing was my fault, I told him, if he had never had the affair, we would not have to be doing this. Apparently he stewed on this all night long,(neither or us got much sleep), and in the morning, I asked where he was going. He angrily replied, "Where do you think I'm going?" I said, "To visit your mother?"
Then he said it was really bothering him that I bring up him having an affair. He said he knew he was wrong and felt that I shouldn't refer to it anymore. I responded the only reason I brought it up was the fact he was trying to blame me for the situation of his mother having to be moved. He then told me that I was the one that initiated it. I told him," Point proved." He then went on to say that if our marriage hadn't been so bad the past 10 years, he wouldn't have had the affair. (babble, babble, babble) I told him I accept my part, and I have from the beginning before I even knew there was an affair. He walked out feeling he had the last word, and appearing very self righteous. Am I wrong in pointing out that the affair resulted in his mother having to pay the consequences?

bump

KD
You know you were not wrong. Plan A is not about protecting people from the consequences of their actions, good and bad.

The kind of point scoring exchange is not useful however. You are right to say that he is babbling. Its all rubbish, but VERY GOOD that he admits his affair was wrong.

Of course he doesn't want you to ever mention his affair, it makes him feel bad and out of control of your relationship.

You did good !

His action and reaction are typical of WS babble. Even if he is in the Xws state, his mind wanders into the WS land. Let him know his babble is not working.

Example:

WS: (angrily replied): "Where do you think I'm going?"

BS: To visit your mother?

WS: it was really bothering that I bring up him having an affair. He knew he was wrong and felt that I shouldn't refer to it anymore.

BS: The only reason I brought it up was the fact he was trying to blame me for the situation of his mother having to be moved.

Ws: BS was the one that initiated it.

BS: Point proved

[color:"blue"]Orchid: I initiated the A? Not true. Get back to me when we can clear this matter up. Need you to be in a civil state of mind for this type of discussion. [/color]

WS: If our marriage hadn't been so bad the past 10 years, he wouldn't have had the affair. (babble, babble, babble)

BS: I accept my part, and I have from the beginning before I even knew there was an affair.

[color:"blue"]Orchid: Exactly, so when are you going to do you part to repair this M? I accept my part but am not responsbile for your A. Again, let's have this important discussion when you are in a civil state of mind. [/color]

He walked out feeling he had the last word, and appearing very self righteous. Am I wrong in pointing out that the affair resulted in his mother having to pay the consequences?

[color:"blue"]Orchid: Everyone pays a price when a family member destorys the trust. He is not scot free. His mom is also paying a price for his choices.

Learn to use 3rd party examples at a later time to make your point. I did that with my Xws and then when the occasion arose, applied the same principle on the A. Cat got his tongue and he couldn't argue against it. The example I used were his sisters. 2 of them were notorious for creating chaos and blaming others for their problems. I call them drama queens and most of the siblings know this. LOL!!! Xws didn't like what his sisters were doing to their father....so I used the principle from their incidents to draw a similarity to his A hurting our family. He got the pix. One thing about those Xws and even WS, they don't like it when others carry on in the same manner. I believe it is called 'double standards'. Practice and nail their behinds with their own babble. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> [/color]

L.

[color:"blue"]Orchid: [/color]

As such that this is a opinion board...I will give my opinion as a health care professional that is that it is NOT fair to move the MIL...


Based on my limited knowledge of her diagnosis and progrnosis it is my opinion that the one of the MOST important factors in her health...are familiar surroundings in which she feels cared for...
and that a new environment is a huge huge huge stressor on someone with confusion...

It is my experience having just within this year buried two family member who were in various nursing homes at times requiring changes in those facilities in the past...that good nursing homes are hard to find...and if you have one that IS meeting the needs of the client..it is usually better than the unknown...and
NO ONE with dimentia should have to move based on the actions of others...if they are somewhere receiving good care....

It is my opinion though not optimal we are literally discussing the wellbeing and health of an innocent third party...and that while I am firm believe of no contact....
there are exceptions...

this could turn out to be the consequence of someones affair actions but turn out to be a turning point in someones health...possibly the decline....

this is a huge emotional turning point for your husband as well and there is the bigger picture of really recovering this marriage down line in way in which each spouse can feel good about...

1. your husband is the middle of huge turmoil based on the fact that his own mother is in a home and in the state she is in...he is just based on that in huge conflict and crisis.......
and this alone has the potential to put great stress on the marriage....

2. there is no doubt that the affair brought huge pain and stress in to the marriage....BUT for the sake of the bigger picture it is my opinion that this issue could and should be poja....

the key to this is IF you believe your husband has really ended emotional contact......if both affair parties are really vested in no contact...OR do you believe your husband is in contact and attempts to make contact via these visits....

you have to answer that question first and for most...

if you believe he desires and seeks out contact with this woman...then the issue is NOT the nursing home....the logistics...the issue is you are NOT in recovery...

IF you believe he truly is doing all that he can do keep contact to sightings only...AND only by chance...and will actively pursue NO one on one contact in which they are alone to discuss ANYTHING...
then I think you need to see how to support him in a loving manner in this way.....

this is a volatile situation that can have serious guilt and blame reprucussions long down the road...and it may be that if you want a healthy partnership down the road that you may have to stay a little longer in plan A....

I am NOT an advocate of babysitting and holding WS hands that profess no contact and recovery....

It is either something they value deeply or not..
AND
it is either something they MAKE happen or they don't..'

the answer lies in their actions...not their words....

so the question is ..
how do you help a man deal with the demise of his mother while at the same time deal with infidelity...

very treacherous....indeed....

but until you can answer where you believe he is in this affair..

contact recovery etc....
then you don't have a plan per-say...

how long was the affair..
and d-day was not that long ago eh?

ARK

Good points Ark !

I'm coming into this very late, but if the OW is a health care "professional," this never would have happened. A professional would not allow a personal relationship to jeopardize the well-being of a patient. Can't WS and BS go to nursing home director and ask that OW be transferred because of "unprofessional conduct?" I haven't read the whole story, so excuse this if the idea has already been tried.

The place where my mil lives is an assisted living facility.
There is also two things going on.
#1 The affair with activities director.
Yes, my husband is currently having no contact with o/w. He has agreed not to go there until o/w has gone for the day.
#2 Mother-in-law's dementia condition has deteriated to the point that she was asked to go to the dementia/alhzeimers facility, this last April, by the administrator of this facility.
The only reason she is still there is due to the fact my husband spends every evening putting him mother to bed, assisting her with eating, etc. etc.
She can no longer get a drink of water on her own, go to the bathroom on her own, eat her dinner on her own, dress or undress herself on her own, brush her hair, or teeth, wash her body, hands, etc. etc on her own.
She has bad days, which have a lot to do with the fact, she does not drink water unless, someone puts the glass in her hand. She becomes dehydrated.
So, it is only a matter of time before she is asked to leave. Sooner, than later.
She needs more help than assisted living can provide.
We found a wonderful place that will give her the every two hour attention to help her to the bathroom, and get something to drink.
The place is wonderful facility that is geared for patients like her with dementia and alhzeimers disease. She will have to learn a new routine. The best thing is, that it is not like a nursing home, it is homey, with chairs, couches, lving rooms, etc. and they have their own rooms with small kitchen, walk in shower and place for their favorite easy chair and t.v. The best thing about it is that she will be able to stay her until she dies. She won't have to go to a institutionalized Skilled Nursing Home. I feel comfortable that my husband will relax after the intial move and mil becomes orientated and settled in. I am hoping that she will be happy there. This move is not a case of if she should move, its a case of when she should move. Experts have already said that she needs the extra care that the dementia facility offers. She was evaluated by a licensed RN who works in the facility. This facility has the assisted living apts, and also inside the building is a door leading to the dementia and alhzeimers unit. The nurse rated my mother-in-laws dementia as moderate to severe. Her motor skills are also rated as severe. We originally wanted her in the assisted living part of the facility, but the nurse who evaluated my mil said that she needs the extra care that the dementia side of the facility offers. This is the second expert that has said this.

You can be right or you can be married.

KHB,

It sounds as if the move has been thought through. Making the decision may well be harder than the actual move. The place you described sounds better than what she has now.

Here's where POJA can come into play and have a benefit for your MIL and M. Based on what you both know of the new place, what are your H's thoughts on it? Is his fear just the move?

Please approach this issue separate from your M needs. Approach the move as in the best interest for your MIL needs.

Has he visited the site? Is he as enthusiastic about her care and well being there (so she won't get dyhydrated,etc.) as you are?

Refocus your attention on this. OW or no OW, if that is the better and safer place to be then that is good. Ark is right good care facilities are hard to find.

You are trying to solve and resolve too many issues at the same time. Realize that the Xws can't be as flexible as you. The Book His Needs/Her Needs say men and women process emotional decisions differently. Your H may find it too hard to think about his mother's needs vs his marriage and your needs on top of it all.

So help him concentrate on moving your MIL for your MIL's needs. Leave the OW out of it. BTW, let the director of the facility know the OW has broken her ethical code of mixing in her pleasure with the customers. Even if it happened only once, the chances of it happening again are great and even if it was more on your H's side than her's, it still happened. Her management needs to help her deal with it either way.

JMHO,
L.

this is what you said in your the first post here...

I told him, if he had never had the affair, we would not have to be doing this.


If it is a medical issue then let your husband and the facility work it out....

and support your husband..

what is the bigger picture...

who helps mom if he is sick or has something else planned that evening..
who feeds her breakfast and lunch??

is this his labor of love to care for her...

what would he still do or not do for his mom in a different facility...

you need to navigate this very very carefully..
without little to no leadership and mostly only support support support...

ark

Dear Ark,
I feed his mother when he is unable to make it for dinner, and lately, it has been me, exclusively, because o/w is still there when dinner is being served. He comes after 5:30 and visits with his mom then, except on o/w's days off. Then he spends all day with her. Now mind you, I'm not complaining. My husband for months would not allow me to help his mother. I later found out because he was having an affair with the o/w aka activities director. Having your wife visit where o/w works is uncomfortable. My mil is on her own for the other meals, but her other friends (residents) actually pick up her fork and feed her. This is why most of the employees have complained that she needs to go to a different facility.
This is a labor of love, guilt, and another serving of guilt, sprinkled with fear that his mother is going to die soon. (Not based on facts, just fear)
She is his last living immediate family, his father and sister both died the same year, 2001-2002 He is still mourning they're death. This is one of the reasons my husband was spinning out of control, making him terribly vulnerable to the sympathy and comfort of the activities director, aka o/w. Sprinkle in neglect on my part, busy with school homework and walla- Emotional Affair. Ark, I spent two and half years helping to take care of my mil before she went into the facility. She wasn't as bad then, and was living alone, with my husband and I sharing the burden of preparing her meals, taking her to her doctor appointments, visiting her every day to do chores etc. When ever my husband couldn't be there, I was there. It was only the past year while going to school that I stopped being there for her and my husband.
When she is in anothe facility, my husband will still come and visit her, but will be able to come and go more often because of not worrying about running into o/w and the facility is only 5 min. from our house, where the other one is 30 minutes away.

Dear Orchid, husband called this facility and asked that they contact me to set up and evaluation for mil. This was a surprise. I was there for the evaluation, I visited the facility, I described it to my husband, we then visited it together. He looks at his mother with Rose Colored Glasses, he thinks that the other residents are worse off than her, but they aren't, he just doesn't see it, that is the only complaint he had about the place. The reason he wants to put her there is that he is tired of waiting for the other shoe to fall, too many times the administrator has tried to get my husband to put my mil in dementia/alhzeimers facility. She will get the care she needs at this facility. He won't have to deal with employees complaining that she is too much work and needs to move. He won't have to worry that she is becoming dehydrated. My husband had the last say. He chose to do this because of the increased care she needs and to make me feel safe not having the o/w nearby. But although his mind knows this, I have a feeling, I will be the scape goat for this move. My only prayer is that she loves this place and meets new friends. Then my husband will be able to let go of his resentment of me. Being that she is so close, we will be able to use her wheelchair to go to the store, which is just down the street, take her to a mexican restaraunt that is just around the corner. She has not been able to go with us for quite awhile because she is unable to get into passenger vehicles. She has to go in the facility shuttle in her wheelchair.

Dear kds ~

I'll tell you what I think.

I think that you may get your way in moving his mother, but you will have lost your marriage in doing so.

It seems to me far better to have exposed the OW, and gotten her out of the facility (OW is the grown non-dependent adult here!!) instead of forcing his mother to suffer the consequences.

Moving his mother is not the only solution to your affair problem.

I am horrified that it is your first option.

Yes, it could be medically necessary . . . but it sounds like both son and mother need more time.

Exposing the OW would result in more time for both mother and son.

So...you can be right...or you can be married. Which do you pick? You only get one.

Well, I hope your not right Bramble Rose. This is a difficult situation, I do love my husband, and we have always put my mil welfare above our own interest. I have been living this reality since 2000 before my fil's death. My husband made the final decision last week when he gave his month's notice to the facility. I guess, only time will tell. Lets hope your prediction doesn't come true.

If your husband 'made the final decision' without feeling coerced into it....why is he so resentful?

If he was taking responsibility for his affair and doing what he had to do for everyone involved, I doubt there'd be this much resentment.

His resentment tells me that he feels forced into a corner.

Why haven't you exposed the OW?

One of the reason's he might be resentful is shortly after exposure and his assurance that he would not visit his mother except when o/w was gone, he broke his word. I checked up on him, he had parked his truck in the front, went through the lions den,(where o/w office and recreation room is, to the dining room where his mother was. He had broken his word and I called him on the carpet. He had a meltdown, and lost control of himself, cussing me out and saying nothing had happened.
The next day he checked into the other facility. He wants to be able to visit him mother anytime and not have to worry whether there will be contact or not. He blames me for not being able to see his mother anytime he wants. This was his solution. And your probably right, he does feel like he is forced into the corner, partly from his own actions. Let me also say that he is fully embarressed because the staff all know he was in an affair with the o/w. I didn't expose him to the staff. He did that little jewel all on his own, carrying on the o/w in plain sight. I just told him what the other woman said, (that everyone was saying they were having an affair. All of these things have helped in making his decision easier for him. Yes, I don't believe he has totally accepted all his responsiblility for the affair, he still blames me, saying that if our marriage had been better, he wouldn't have had the affair.

Well then...if MIL is not being moved at your insistence...

I'll go out on a limb and say that I don't think you are in recovery.

Sounds to me (and I could certainly be wrong) as if he is mad that you have made it uncomfortable for him to carry on an affair while seeing mom.

If indeed, moving mom is his idea, then I think he is moving Mom so you will not be breathing down his neck...and he can continue the affair.

He's mad you found out.

You were awful, so he had an affair.

You found out and were unreasonable so he had to move Mom so he could still have his affair.

Nope, no recovery here I think.

If this has an ending point and his mother will be leaving within a time frame...

why not poja his visiting any time he wants with acceptance that there might be 'sightings'..

see if he is interested in doing things to help decrease this...entering through the back ...going straight to her room..etc..

would he do that

ark

Dear BrambleRose and Ark,
Updating:
Husband has been very distant and cool, again resorting to not wanting me to do anything for him. Last night was another night of him hugging the side of his bed and jerking away if I touch him.
In the morning, I told my husband that it was unhealthy for our marriage to hold anger and resentment in and that when he gets home from work I would like us to discuss what is bothering him.
He didn't wait but poured out his burdens he had been carrying around with him. He felt resentment towards me for feeling like he had to put his mother in another facility, and that the move was going to make her unhappy. He felt I was forcing him to do this, even though he is the one that made the call that gave his mother's facility 30 day notice. He was scared that the residents at the new facility were totally out of it and that his mother would know the difference. He was concerned that the facility was too institutionalized. I listened to everything he had to say. I told him that he needed to do what was best for his mother, and if he felt that way, he should call his mom's facility administrator and put a hold on the leaving. (I let the rabbits cage door open) (The rabbit is looking and watching to see if I am going to slam it shut again.) He then goes on to say that I don't trust him to keep talking to the o/w on a proffessional level. I then explain to him why there should be no contact. That every time he sees or talks to the o/w, it effects his emotions, which in turn, takes away any progress that he made in getting over the o/w.
I told him, I will support him if he wants to keep him mother at the facility, and will go with him to visit his mother when the o/w is working.
He then said he would feel like he was in prison, with a guard watching over him.
I asked him if he thought there were any other options availble to his mother that would work out better. I told him if he felt that strongly, he needs to cancel his mother leaving the facility.
He then replies that he thinks it's too late for that. I told him its not too late, its only been less than a week since he gave his notice.
(The rabbit is thinking about darting out of the cage now, to freedom)
He then went on to say that the staff is just one hair away from asking his mother to leave and that he doesn't want to live that way anymore. He then went on to say that the only reason his mother was allowed to stay there was the fact that he made himself indespencable to the staff by helping them with emptying garbages, hanging pictures, picking up things for them and taking care of his mother's needs while he is visiting in the evenings and all of the weekends. My husband and I then discussed what the alternatives to this problem might be. I told him his mother could come live with us, and that I would assist him in taking care of her. He then brought up the fact that I wouldn't do that for her when we originally put her in the assisted living facility. I told him he was correct. At that time, I felt obligated and trapped, and did not under any instance want to have to take care of his mother.
A lot has changed since the day he announced he no longer loved me and hadn't for years.
I told him, I am not the same person I was before that moment of his truth. My life came crashing down, and I assigned new priorities to my life. I explained that unless he had experienced the grief of being told that your husband of 26 years no longer loves you and then later finding out he had been having an emotional affair with the activiities director, he has no idea what he would think or do or feel. Only the betrayed spouses can understand the soul searching and bargaining that goes on after this news. I explained to him, how important his feelings were to me, and when he is in pain and turmoil over his mother, it kills me. I told him, I want his happiness, and I want his mother's happiness. This is how I can change my mind and agree to have my mil come live with us. To give my husband and his mother, the happiness and time to spend with one another. Because ultimately, if my husband is not happy, I am not happy either.
My husband is a successful superviser in the company that he works for. One of his speaciality is the fact that he can take any situation and find multiple working solutions, allowing the clients to choose the best option for them.
I said to him, why don't you brainstorm and come up with another solution if living where she is at is not an option, and you have doubts about the new facility. Thats where our conversation ended, he had arrived at work, so I will have to get back to all of you after he gets home. I will let you all know if the rabbit stays or bolts.

Sincerely,
K.D's Heartbreak