How do you know if you have all of the facts needed to make a decision?

Sounds like YOUR GUT is working on this...

Look into his eyes, watch his behavior as you CALMLY INTERROGATE...

Where did you sleep, etc...

Find out on your own about the theater schedule last night..

Who was working, etc...to see if his answers match with your knowledge of events...

First know yourself and where your limits are.

If my H stayed out all nite and never called me... I would know he was sick ... and if that turned out not to be true ... I would know he did not consider my feelings. And for ME .... that is not going to be tolerated.

Know thyself.

There is actually a very good chance that he did spend the night at the theater.

But does it matter?

Has he ever spent the night at the theater before?

Why would he do that?

How do you show that things are not going to be tolerated?

Right now, as the smoke is oozing out of my ears, kicking him out seems to be my only option. If I calm down will I find other ways to show him this? I don't even know what they would be.

I suppose I could kick him out of the bedroom.

This is crap.

Yes he has spent the night at the theater before. They have a show opening up in 2 weeks with some very big names and WH is scared of looking unprofessional and falling behind schedule.

I talked to WH's theater friend. He says it was possible that WH stayed the night because he did do a lot of work. WH "doesn't know" when he went to sleep, but I know he checked his voice mail at 3:22 a.m. and then he checked it again at 6:44 a.m. I don't think he called me at home until 7:15.

It almost doesn't matter if OW is in the picture or not because, like Pep said, "I know that he did not consider my feelings."

by knowing yourself.

Imagine this: You are the FWS recovering a marriage after YOUR infidelity. You are keenly aware that your spouse is still reeling from it all. Now you realize you are going to be pulling an all-nighter at work ... what might you imagine would keep you from calling your at-home spouse and informing him that you were going to be really REALLY late and not to worry?????

My H works in the movie/TV industry, and occasionally he works night shoots ... but he always lets me know if he's going to be really late ... always. Why? He respects me and treats me the way he would like to be treated.

Me, not being Pep nor you, I wouldn't kick him out.

Given your issues that you were speaking of yesterday, I especially wouldn't kick him out of the bedroom.. Sex, not to be used as some sort of punishment, means of expressing anger...

Given that he may have been at the theater, I would have a VERY SERIOUS CONVERSATION AND INTERROGATION with him to make it clear that this cannot happen again..

The most serious offense may be the lack of consideration...

That may be due to CONTINUED FOGGINESS at this early stage of RECOVERY...

It would be MORE problemmatic for ME if he had been with the OW....then I would consider kicking him out...

MY FWH was SOOOO FOGGY early on....

Loy... it has been 10 years we are in recovery ... my H would not dream of staying out all nite and not telling me he's OK.

That's just it Pep...

10 years for you..

4 months, I think, for her...

He may be VERY FOGGY...

Took my FWH a full 6 months....

I understand and accept that you and I are profoundly different in many ways Mimi <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> That makes the world go around...

so that's why I suggest to Loy her #1 priority is to know herself and what her limits are.

Respect is a huge need of mine ... and by that I mean ... in order for me to stay in love with my H, I have to respect him and his choices. It is very important for me to be able to look up to ... and to admire my husband. And if he is failing to behave in a way I can respect and admire ... my love bank drains FAST ... and I mean FAST.

An aside: the flowers are very beautiful. They make me mad everytime I look at them. They are so beautiful.

I didn't expect WH home until 2 - 3 a.m. so it wasn't quite like WH just didn't come home after work.

This is unacceptable behavior.

I am bothered by the possible threat of the OW, but that is something that I do not have proof of. What I have proof of is how he treats me.

Mimi; as a part of the defogging, did your wh have to learn how to be married? or not single?

PEP:

I understand where you are coming from..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LOY:

I was guilty of jumping to conclusions early on in Recovery. So I was trying to help you with that...

I'm with Pep on being highly suspicious of your H. I would just gather my facts and information first before throwing him out. You see?

I also agree with Pep about your H's lack of consideration of you. He has to REALLY GET THE IMPORTANCE AND SIGNIFICANCE OF THE NEED FOR EXTRAORDINARY PRECAUTIONS AND OF BEING AVAILABLE TO YOU 24/7 FOREVER MORE.....

When my H got this, he really got this..He is worse than I am about it almost....

He did have slipups on some things and was apologetic as your H is. They weren't as major as spending the night out, though....

HE HAD TO LEARN NOT TO BE NARCISSISTIC-FOCUSED MAINLY ON HIMSELF..

Come to think of it, he has grown more and more considerate, more and more GIVING....more SELF-SACRIFICIAL now, going out of his way for me and our children....

Yeah, spending the night out is pretty major.

My number one priority is refilling my prescription for anti-depressants. Just ran out Sunday and I don't really have a prescription. My Dr. wants to see me again before I get an official prescription.

I will call and get an appointment now, to feel productive and crap.

Somewhere in my head I have this idea that my WH wants me to be mad at him and that this is why he makes such [censored] mistakes.

Could you comment further?

Yesterday I think I wasn't too concerned about the OW element because I didn't suspect this as being OW related because of WH's work schedule. My head and gut are in synch on this, especially after talking with WH last night.

This was a big deal for me because of the lack of respect and care and not as much as the threat of her (not because the OW is not a threat, but because I don't smell here right now).

WH made some poor justifications for not calling me: He had to be at the theater early in the morning anyway so why not save time and just sleep there, I didn't leave a message so I must be OK (he checked messages at 3:20 a.m. and I didn't leave a message).

I know he did do a lot of work at the theater, so much so that he would've had to be there for most of the night. But, I told him, how do I know that you were alone?

WH said, "that's easy. Just ask the janitorial staff, they were in and out during the night using the service elevator. If you want to you can call them."

WH said he realized as soon as he talked to me how thoughtless and careless his behavoir was. He wants to become the good man he hopes he once was, and wants to take care of me and respect my feelings and fears.

I think Mimi's early recovery prognosis is probably on target here. He has to learn how to be a couple. During the A and our separation (a time span of 18 months) he acted as an individual. We talked about tonight. He will be working late at the theater with the potential for all night. He will not be working alone, and he will call me through out the night and have the theater's phone on. (This phone is turned off during the day for rehersals).

For the last couple of days WH and I have been talking a lot about if he is the right "one" for me. He has said that maybe he's not the right "one" for me. He has said that he needs me more than I need him.

Last night I said that this line of discussion has been bothering me, because he is the "one" for me because I chose him. I said he was the one in front of family, friends, and God. At this WH got tears in his eyes and said, well I guess that answers that question.

I think the defogging process includes learning remedial relationship skills.

It appears that the WS has a whole different set of insecurities that influence their questions and concerns and at the top of their list may be, am I worthy?

This is so interesting, Loy.

One of my major revelations lately has been my lack of recognition, over many years, of HOW MUCH MY H HAS NEEDED ME AND NEEDS ME....

Emphasis should be on ME in the above statements..

I had not recognized MY IMPORTANCE to him...I had DEVALUED myself....

It's so wonderful that your H is now able to openly express his needfulness to you...

I'm glad you got what I was trying to say yesterday. I was concerned that I wasn't being clear to you, in trying to put into words, what I had been thinking...

Yes, we have had to WORK on being a COUPLE-A TEAM-RATHER THAN TWO INDIVIDUALS...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I love being wrong at times like this <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />