Pep:

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> back to you.....

Mimi:

I too have a problem seeing that I am important to WH. I want WH to show me I am important in one way, and he tells me in a way that I didn't recognize.

Pep:

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

You know, passion doesn't necessarily thrive with so much fear, insecurity, and lack of trust. So, I feel pretty comfortable or less pressure with the lack of passion, because all things considered it's not surprizing.

I've had to learn that my H shows me through his actions..

With him, "ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS"....

Actions do speak louder than words, but today I got some words that meant a lot to me.

WH and I almost never talk about OW, but she came up in conversation. We handeled this conversation about a concern of mine very well. Basically I am concerned that the door to her isn't closed forever, that he still may be interested in having a relationship with her.

He said that he doesn't want a relationship with her. He doesn't know how much he likes her. He said that sometimes he even hates her, but then he also hates himself.

I asked him why would he hate her?

He said, because she helped me to almost loose everything that's important to me. She was helping me to throw away my dreams, dreams that are important to me and that I still think can happen. (He grabbed my hands here).

And then we talked about how much progress we feel we've made and how nice it is to be able to talk about this stuff.

This took 139 days of NC, 4 1/2 months after the last contact.

It's so amazing to me how scripted this is...

My FWH and I almost had the very same conversation...

I'm happy for you, Loy....

Hang in there..

Recovery is HARD. In the end, though, you can CREATE an even better marriage...

Wondering if this is scripted too.

Well WH has been super busy.

He is afraid of us failing so he keeps himself super busy. He is afraid of us making out and being dissapointed that he never wants to.

His fear of failing is making me frusterated, because it is so easy to take it personally.

And I do.

He wants us to start spending more time together. I'll believe that when I see it. But I am thankful he expressed this wish to me and told me that he was scared.

We are both relying on patience.

Right now I hate patience.

Sometimes I need to be kissed. Sometimes I need to be able to kiss. And his fear of failure is trying to prevent all action. It's just like what John Eldridge describes in Wild at Heart.

I want to be kissed not because of grand passion, but because I need to be loved.

I really take his fear of kissing me as a rejection of me. I don't think is this fare to WH, but it helps make me miserable and encourages me to not try and kiss him.

Thoughts?

Kiss him in his sleep.... really.

What makes WH think that we shouldn't be having these problems?

This is what makes me mad. We are having these issues because of his actions. Because he removed himself from us physically and now we have work at this together.

I take huge offense that he fears that this problem may be a sign that we shouldn't be together. Bunk. It's a sign that he had an affair and removed himself from our life and family.

I can't stand it when he blames the problems in our relationship on the worth or destiny of our relationship.

kiss him when he is sleeping

steal a kiss

he will know

you will be 'felt' in his unconscious mind

It's a remnant of the affairs, "destiny is out of our control" crap. Total lack of responsibility.

I will kiss him in his sleep.

kissing is back in your control

Look at me, I'm a control freak.

I know he is afraid of sex. I know he is scared of what it may mean. Like if it's bad it means we shouldn't be together.

Why put all that pressure on sex?

I don't know how to help him.

So I'll have to just kiss him.

If he's going to feel scared - and not kiss back - and then think that means we shouldn't be together.....

Blech. Talk about crazy.

I am pissingly energized right now.

"crazy"

be crazier

have some fun with this

tell him

"I know you don't feel ready for a physical relationship right now. But I have made a decision based on my integrity, here it is. I am going to kiss you anyway ... and PLEASE , do NOT kiss me back."

~~~~~~~~~~ hee hee

then give him a wet one and say "Thanks".... walk away humming.... and swing those hips !

maybe I should've said "madly energized"

he said we are perfect for each other in so many ways, he is afraid that we may not be perfect in this way.

OK, I strongly feel that I'm right. But me feeling right isn't important.

He is scared that I will kiss him. He is scared that he'll want to kiss me. He is scared that it won't work out.

Fear of failure, man's greatest obstacle.

Don't fear failure ... fear not kissing !

I agree with the idea of kissing him in his sleep! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

However, I also have a few additional thoughts.

Since so many other areas in your R are great and he seems anxious about this area, do you think it would work to approach this as your NEW MARRIAGE...meaning making the sexual part of your MARRIAGE totally new..wiping the slate from the past...starting your courtship all over again..like first base..then second base...or even having some sort of SPECIAL RITE/CEREMONY to mark the occasion...

You two seem to have all the basics of a GREAT SEXUAL RELATIONSHIP..given the level of emotional intimacy between the two of you...

Another thing...My FWH was anxious at first about SEX because it was a TRIGGER that made him feel GUILTY...I think he did not feel worthy of me, made him feel yucky, like a bad person that did this to his wife...That's why it had to be MADE NEW...I helped him with this..expressing my FORGIVENESS out loud seemed to help him with this...

Lastly, I will share that I found it helpful to go back to the same rituals that we used to begin our sexual relationship ages ago...the special things that he liked for ME to do when WE were first COURTING...THOSE THINGS MAKE OUR RELATIONSHIP TOGETHER SPECIAL AND DIFFERENT...sort of mating rituals that no one else would know about except for us...

You know what I mean, don't cha? What did you do to charm him way back in those days? I used to shower, put on special perfume and surprise him with a new outfit when we were going out...I liked candles back in the day before it was even all that popular..during PLAN A, I started buying these again..now he lights them.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mimi:



This rings so true. This is exactly what I am picking up, but he just hasn't quite verbalized this yet.

How did you express your forgiveness to your WH? Because my husband doesn't feel worthy of any of my compliments. It's almost like my forgiveness, appreciation, and sometimes love is a trigger for guilt as well.

And it warms my heart to hear you say that we have all the makings of a great sexual relationship. It's a great booster.

Loy:

It seems to me that your H is at that point in Recovery when he is feeling "very bad", AWFUL, about the A. My H once said that he couldn't live with himself if he acknowledged all the awful things that he did. In my situation, I'm thinking that some of the AWFUL stuff involved some very weird sex stuff. I imagine the OW allowed almost anything..

We don't even want to imagine, LOY..

Those relationships were not HEALTHY RELATIONSHIPS and certainly not HEALTHY SEXUAL RELATIONSHIPS...

I realized that my H had to do some relearning/debriefing to get a sense of what is normal...

During this tender time with my H, I did what I could to show my sensitivity and understanding of what he was going through..Saying, in my own words and behavior, this must be hard for you, showing compassion...

I think this was when we stopped talking so much about the A and details of the A and started talking about OUR RELATIONSHIP, the GOOD PARTS of our RELATIONSHIP in the PAST and how we want to make it BETTER/BEST NOW and in the FUTURE....

We began to talk a lot about OUR FUTURE together..fun things we want to do...

LIKE STARTING ANEW..

Forgiveness shown in me communicating: "what's important to me, Husband, is what we have together now and what we will create in our FUTURE...

Make Sense?

Hey Mimi:

I guess I just assumed from what you wrote in this post that you and your husband had to recover a certain amount before you were intimate. That sex was a trigger for him for a while, I guess I just assumed that it took you guys a little while before you were able to engage.

I have kissed WH a couple of times, but I am frusterated by his fear of failure and I want more. I want all of him and I'm tired of him not sharing.