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Dear Berry,
I am at work at the moment and haven't much time right now. I just wanted to send you hugs (((((Berry)))))
It will get better. Please hang in there. Try to look after yourself. I'll post more later.
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Berry, You said No one could explain my addiction to job and what kind of sacrifies my H did for me better than you did.I graduated as a best student of my term and I got two awards. I am ambitious and I always want to be the best. But look at me, how bad I am in marriage and I failed in the examination of life and marriage.
I am very close to lose everything, and my job is not very important to me anymore. My H might lose his job until this week and I offered him that if he wants to go another city because of a job, I will come with him. I am glad you are talking to your H and giving him the details he needs to sort this out in his mind. Right now he is a great deal of pain as he now knows what he only feared. I am glad you are willing to move with him...but let's think about this. You see moving to make him happy and you unhappy will not work although you think you deserve this and right now he might as well. What has to change in your thinking is very clear from the quote you made. I think you are going after your Ph.D. for the wrong reasons and because of that it has helped destroy your marriage. Permit me to explain. A PhD. means you have been trained to think, that you should be able to think INDEPENDENTLY and pursue the truth found in your field. But, it seems to me you have gone into this for the prestige of the title. For the awards you can win. But, what you need to know is that if you are to be a good researcher, you must be willing to forego the allocades of colleagues. You must be able to work on your own thoughts, and reach truth within your OWN mind. It is clear you are still too young to realize that research is NOT about reward, awards, prestige, it is about YOUR desire to understand things. You passion to do things as YOU want them seems to be tempered with your NEED for approval, hence the A, hence the drive to be the best BEFORE you are even out of school. As I tell many of my post docs, the idea is to do great things IN THEIR TIME, not because you will get a pat on the back. Your failure to understand this, has led to your failure to include your H in your thinking. Most if people in research are married, and most work long hours, but the best and the happiest balance their lives with the joys of life and a life well lived with a partner is about as good as it gets. Give your H time to digest what he has learned. Understand that his feeling that OM got the best of you and he got the mess is based not only on the actual A, but how you have treated him before, during, and after the A. He has little data from you that he is much of a priority in your life or is very much loved or respected by you. You have only been married 2.5 years and this affair and the aftermath has consumed what??? about 1/2 of the marriage??? So have patience with your H. Be strong for him because right now he has lost his best friend and he is trying to figure out how to stand. But, also evaluate your reasons for obtaining your PhD. It seems to me if you are going to be good in your field, you have to become a good researcher, NOT a good student. Good students are a dime a dozen (a saying that means very very common), good researchers are not. Please think about this. God Bless, JL
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May I ask you what was your H reaction after he learned the details? Why did you have that A? What kind of reasons caused him to come back to you? Has he ever send D papers? How could you convince him to continue your marriage? Dear Berry, I hope you are feeling a little better now. It is very difficult. I know about how difficult it can be. I got so depressed last year, it was hard to function, to go to work, to eat, to sleep. It slowly got better, though. I got much stronger. I learnt to take care of myself better. Can you talk to your counsellor about how to look after yourself? What about anti-depressant medication? Its very important that you eat well and try to sleep, try to do nice things for yourself and to exercise. Don't worry too much if you don't get very much work done right now. Be kind to yourself. I know I thought I might have big problems at work because I got very little done for months. In reality, hardly anyone noticed much. I think if you are that good at your work that you won awards, you can afford to concentrate your efforts on your M, where they are needed right now, and don't worry about work. My H's reaction after knowing the details was to withdraw very much. He didn't want to talk to me about it, or even to spend very much time with me, he just wanted to forget about everything, and to others outside our M, act as though everything was OK. It was very difficult for me. I had to look after myself, and I was living overseas at the time, away from all family and friends. As for the reasons I had an A, it is here in this thread. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...part=1&vc=1Basically, it comes down to me being immature, panicking about the problems in my M that I didn't know how to solve, not discussing problems and negative feelings with H before they turned into resentments, exhausting myself emotionally by working too much, becoming distant from H due to a separation and him having his own problems to cope with at the time, and giving in to a weakness because I wasn't even aware I had a weakness. I thought I was a 'good' person who could never have an A, so I allowed myself to get into a situation where I was tempted. I was cruel to my H. I am sad when I think of the pain I caused. I don't think I am a cruel person in general. I certainly behaved that way at that time. About H comign back to me... I am not sure entirely. He woudl have to tell you himself. I think he sees that our R has possibilities in the future. Our R has already improved a lot, partly because I have grown up. He has recognised that he wasn't perfect before my A. About convincing him to continue the M.... I think it is not possible. I don't think he would do it because of anything I said. The only reason he would stay is because he wants to himself. All I can do is continue to work on myself, to recognise what I did and his pain from it, and to try to learn for the future. Berry, if you haven't already got them, I would suggest learning all you can about As. It was very important to me to get educated and to understand what causes As and how to have a good M in the future. Now I feel like out of this sad mess, something good has come, because I would not have learnt all of this new knowledge.
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Hello Smur,
Thank you for helping my wife I think that you have many things in common and your help for her means a lot for me.
BH-me-31
WW-28
M:2,5
before M:1
no kids
D-day:May-2005
Recovery:?
johnalone@mail.com
English is not my mother tongue
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Hello JL,
I think that all your analysis are great. That's what I was trying to tell my wife about her life style and her job.
I think I have nothing to add to your post as we talked about this yesterday and I'm sure that she agrees now with you. She wants to be with successful persons in order to lower her needs for success. And this is the easy way to go.
I would like to thank again for your analysis
BH-me-31
WW-28
M:2,5
before M:1
no kids
D-day:May-2005
Recovery:?
johnalone@mail.com
English is not my mother tongue
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Hello MelodyLane,
I was always following the forum. I just didn't want to post.
I'm ready to answer your questions.
Thank you
BH-me-31
WW-28
M:2,5
before M:1
no kids
D-day:May-2005
Recovery:?
johnalone@mail.com
English is not my mother tongue
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Hi Johnalone, I don't have much to say, just wanted you to know that I was thinking of you and to encourage you to come post to us when you need support. I know that you are a very logical thinker and wanted to leave you with this thought: your anger is temporary, divorce is permanent. This will get better, my friend. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Hello MelodyLane
She told me more about her PA this saturday (with her IC)
I still don't know if I know enough because everytime I learn new things about her A. I'm really hurt and try to not to think about it. I'm tired, I can't sleep very well.
I asked her to think honestly about our M and decide if she wants me as H. There is no time limit but I think I want an answer for this, an honest answer.
Thank you for your support, I appreciate it.
BH-me-31
WW-28
M:2,5
before M:1
no kids
D-day:May-2005
Recovery:?
johnalone@mail.com
English is not my mother tongue
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johnalone
I just want to le you know that my H and myself also post here and that like your wife I too cheated on my H.
Like your wife I was so fearful that if I told my H details he would hate me me more and that I would drive him away.
This is a deep and overwheiming fear for those WS who are truly remorseful.
BECAUSE OUR H HAVE THE RIGHT TO WALK AWAY.
We are the ones who stuffed up the marriage.
But having read your wifes posts I do really feel she is very very remorseful and WANTS you and the Marriage very much.
BUT she needs to both tell you that and work on showing you that in her actions. Words alone are not good enough as I found out.
I cannot lessen your pan or anger or the need to sometimes just get away from it all.... it is a normal reaction.
I would like you to come here and vent your anger though if possible rather than totally unload it on your wife simply because it will make things easier for YOU as you both recover. And I am of the opinion YOU BOTH can get through this terrible time together.
Johnalone, it not that I set about to cold bloodedly 'I'm going to hurt my husband by having an affair" ..no I didn't actively think about him at all......THAT WAS THE PROBLEM.
That seems to be not uncommon.
And many times the person the affair is with doesn't even hold a candle to our husbands in ANY area.
It wasn't even the sex - pretty uck actually - it was need to keep the person answering some need at that time that I had.
But there are no excuses I choose to have it, I'm responsible and NOTHING my H did or didn't do caused it.
I sense this revelation in your wife from her posts.
berry
Please DO tell johnalone the details as much as he wants, if he does not want the 'abc' of each action then tell him what he needs to know, do not try to withhold any details it can be a killer for recovery and drive him away from the marriage.
Yes he may be very hurt and angry at the details he learns BUT even if he does not want you near for a while he is more likely to want you and the Marriage in the long term if he knows you have been totally honest with him.
More lies = death of the marriage.... the reason wont matter.
I know this because for a while I tried to hide the truth from my husband and nearly lost him. So please don't.
Can you both get over this? yes you can after a lot of work and commitment. I know that.
Sometimes I feel like I am a cork bobbing in an ocean somewhere being pushed from pillar to post, but at least I have my husband with me and despite some difficult moments we are happy.
We will never forget, but there is a loving and gentle forgiveness between us.
I feel you both can get there but it is a hard time right now, a lot of pain and hurting for both of you.
Dont give up even when you feel like walking away.
all the best
AW
Life may feel as if you are constantly getting kicked on a daily basis, living is about picking yourself up each day and going on and on and on regardless.
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Hello AW,
Thank you for your support. We're still talking with her about the A. All the details she told me now hurt me.
She was talking yesterday so enthusiastic about her laboratory in AM. that I felt worthless, that hurt a lot.
As in your post, she needed it and she got it. She didn't even think about me. This is all that simple. I'm angry.
BH-me-31
WW-28
M:2,5
before M:1
no kids
D-day:May-2005
Recovery:?
johnalone@mail.com
English is not my mother tongue
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Dear John and Berry, John, its very normal to feel angry. I think there are many BS's on this board who have been through this and who will post to you. Berry, this is an excerpt from Dorry's guide for FWS, which I think is really good. It is a very long process, and this is where patience is absolutely necessary. Patience is your friend right now! Learn how to communicate and how to not react emotionally. Your husband has been destroyed. You are probably blaming it on the condition of the marriage. He probably feels right now as if he has done nothing right. And in his hurt he may lash out at you, he may hurt you. This is not acceptable, but do not react in emotion. Remember he is acting out of hurt. When you tell him what he has done wrong at that moment, its one more thing he is not good enough for or that he has done wrong. Instead of lashing back at him, tell him you are sorry and you love him. Resist the temptation to lash out back due to the hurt, you will only hinder your progress. Remind him always that you are sorry and you love him.
Read the book Love Busters. It will teach you how to react with your GOAL in mind, and not emotionally. It will teach you what Love Busters and Selfish demands and Disrespectful Judgements are. These are all things you need to avoid while your husband heals and things you need to implement into your new marriage to prevent it from failing again. Encourage your husband to read it as well, as it may help him learn to talk to you and not hurt you out of his anger.
Your communication may have been a contributing factor. How many times did you try to tell your husband you feeling neglected, alone, inferior? Many times I bet, and each time he didn’t seem to listen or care and you felt more hurt, alone, uncared for. But you probably backed down on the issue each time too, for fear of rocking the boat, or due to just plain not feeling cared for. The thing is, if you knew how to communicate with your husband, you would have GOTTEN that message across the right way, without raising his defenses making him not listen, without coming across another way as if it wasn’t important, and you would not have entered into an affair, and you wouldn’t be where you are now. Learn YOUR faults and YOUR contributions to the neglect you felt, and learn to change those. This is SO important. You may not see changes in your husband for a long time, but you can help those changes by just changing the way YOU do things, and how YOU communicate. You can only CHANGE yourself. So start!
7. Your husband will probably give you boundaries and rules in the beginning. These may seem restrictive and they may suck. But you need to earn your husband’s trust back. So what if he wants a copy of your itinerary, he wants to know where you are all the time, he wants to check up on you, he spies on you. It may feel uncomfortable, but you need to show him you have nothing to hide. Do these things. Over time he will see you are genuine and are changing and these things will lessen. Stick with it. NO SECRETS, only complete transparency – don’t give him anything to worry about or fear about. Show him you have nothing to hide.
8. After reading up on Emotional Needs, Print out the Emotional Needs Questionnaire - meet your husband’s needs and give him your needs so he knows what they are. He probably never knew what they were – give HIM the chance to meet them now that he knows what they are!
9. Remember it’s a roller coaster. Things might be going good, but your husband may have times along the road where he may not be able to meet your needs, he may regress and things may go bad for a bit. These tend to happen at the 6-8 month mark. DON’T look at this as a setback. Continue to be consistent, meet his needs – don’t push any talk about the marriage during this time, and keep showing him you love him. This will help him through these tough moments. If you stop doing these, he will have a harder time. These times will be very hard for you – but remember your GOAL – that you want the marriage to be healthy. Don’t react on the moment, react based on your final Goal.
10. Forgive yourself. This is the HARDEST thing you will face. You may reach a point where you can’t even look at yourself in the mirror. Remember you are NOT a bad person, you just made a BAD choice. But you are NOT defined by your past or your mistakes, but by your present and your successes. YOU can change, you can learn your weaknesses and protect them, change them. Make a new better you, which ultimately will be better for your husband. Learn how to depend on yourself and not on other men when you have a lull in your marriage. Be strong. Learn it’s not other men that make you who you are, but it’s yourself. This will be healthier for the new marriage you are hoping to build with your husband.
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Hello Smur,
thank you for your answer. During the first 2 years of our M, I was trying to communicate with her and I think "I" was neglected. She was sooooooooo selfish. Now she seems to understand the problem. I hope she understands. I would like to see her comments here. I know she's working hard on me but I'm really sad about all this story.
BH-me-31
WW-28
M:2,5
before M:1
no kids
D-day:May-2005
Recovery:?
johnalone@mail.com
English is not my mother tongue
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johnalone,
It's very common for us BS [especially us men] to want to know the details about the affair, but you have got to ask yourself the questions 'Why do I want to know them and What do I have to gain from them?'. Don't get me wrong, knowing the answers can often help us discover our WS issues but it can often help us draw wildly wrong conclusions [OM had a bigger and better 'tool', she is an 'unsatiable nymphomaniac', etc.]. I beleive you may be better of asking yourself 'Is my W's desire to save/rebuild the marriage born out of fear or out of a genuine love? Is she [and I] committed to make the changes necessary that will avoid putting us back in the same place prior to her A?' and probably THE most important one 'How can I learn to let go of the sadness, anger and bitterness that her A has caused me?. Remember that even if you chose to divorce your W, you cannot divorce yourself and those negative emotions that can take permanent residence in your heart and can and will follow you wherever you go.
Keep in mind that you and your W can walk out of the marriage anytime either one of you chooses so there is no need to rush to make a final decision about the fate of the marriage. The two of you would be wise to let at least a year go by before the two of you make any permanent, life altering decisions for or against the marriage so that the answers to those questions I posed to you above, will be known by then with a fair degree of certainty. In the meantime I highly recommend that you and your W read Dr Harley's books 'Surviving An Affair', 'His Needs Her Needs' and 'Love Busters' as well as Dave Carder's book 'Torn Asunder'. The book 'Love Busters' in particular has a section dealing with career choices and how they can negatively impact a marriage's long term survival and the two of you would do well in reading it and taking Dr Harley's advice on the issue.
Lastly, keep in mind that recovery [personal and marital] is a one day at a time process that cannot and should not be rushed.
TMCM
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Hello TCM,
thank you for your support.
I don't want to make a decision today. But I'm angry.
I'm angry because she couldn't wait for another 1 month to be with me.
I'm angry because we've wasted 2 years for this marriage.
I'm angry because we needed an A to fix this marriage.
I'm angry that it was so easy.
I'm happy that she's working now on herself. I'm trying to cope with the pain. She's so lovely now which helps me a lot. But I still can't believe she did this.
thank you again for your support.
BH-me-31
WW-28
M:2,5
before M:1
no kids
D-day:May-2005
Recovery:?
johnalone@mail.com
English is not my mother tongue
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Dear John,
I understand that the things on Dorry's list might not all be relevant to your situation. I hope you and Berry can take the things that are important and learn from them.
I am sad for you that you are going through this. Its not easy.
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Hi. again
I have been away for a while. I could not write anything these days but I followed the discussions and I went to my therapist. I have been thinking what kind of reasons caused my A.Mainly the reasons are realted to my personality and how my parents grew me up. I am trying to find out the wrong parts of my character and try to fix it by getting help and reading.
My parents had made lots of wrong things when I was little. I would like to say they used to do it but they are still doing it. I do not want to talk to them on the phone these days and fortunately they are living far away from us.I want to be alone to deal with the problems. My husband had talked to my mom about the possible relation between me and OM.As far as I know he had not tell the details. Her reaction had been very rigid and frustrated. She also treated me on msn about not to talk to OM two weeks ago if I talk to him she told me that she would tell my dad. I know that my dad is lacking in understanding. I am sure his reaction will be hard on me. It is not easy to be one child of my family. My parents has lost my sister. Their hearts are already broken. I can see that they made some mistakes when I was growing up and I am suffering from the results of those mistakes. I decided to write my mom a letter and I read it to my therapist last week. She told me that I accussed her and my dad for many things and she might not handle them so I decided to change the letter and send it this week when I am on a short vacation. So she can think about it. I do not like them to be involved in my life. I have my own life and problems. I can not handle if any other person learn my A.
It is not easy to answer esp. sex details but my H is still asking me.After asking many disgusting questions he told me that he will have sex with OW to see how he will feel. He told me that he is not going to tell me when he did it. I hope if he comes back to me, he would have done HIV test.Could you imagine how I feel these days. I can not sleep well since last two weeks and I can not think very well either. I am seeing many nightmares.
He also asks me where he was when I was having an A.He meant that if I have ever think about him when those things happened. I am trying to find out where he was. In my heart or in my mind or somewhere else. I do know that I had many problems that I could not handle those days and I found some temporary solution which was getting help from OM.
My H says that he lost 2.5 years. If I came like the person before he might have lost more than that time because I would not want to change myself or think about myself. Many things were going wrong and I am not sure how long he could handle them. I do belive that he was not happy and I was not aware how lucky I was when I was having my H.
I do not know how to explain but I have a big pain inside of me right now, I sometimes find myself crying even in the office. This lunch time I want to run away again.One sound comes inside of me saying that RUN AWAY.Do I need to listen it??????????
Thank you for reading my opinions,
Berry77
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Dear Berry (Dear wife)
I would like to thank you for posting here as in that way I can think that you're working on our problem. You're sick these days and there is an insomnia problem for both of us so we're tired.
I know that this isn't easy for you. You must remember that this isn't easy for me neither.
I always think that I'm a good husband, not the best maybe but a good one. I was loving you, caring for you and I was trying to help you about all of your problems as I'm doing the same way these days. But this was not enough to you. I was asking questions about the sex as I think that this maybe one of the source of our problems. I've asked you many questions about that for 2-3 days and thats all. I wanted details as you have lied to me many times, I don't know how many times you told me that was all. So I wanted to be sure.
I know that you heavily feel guilty for your PA, that's why you think that I'm always asking you questions about that. In fact I didn't ask you any question about the A last 4-5 days.
In order to understand my situation you have to know which questions I'm asking myself and what you can do to help me.
Everyday I ask myself if I'm doing the right thing. Everyday I keep asking myself what you're thinking while you're doing this. Everyday I remember how much I was in love with you like crazy when you're in your A. Everyday I ask myself if you really want to do something for yourself and our marriage. I don't want to live this again. So I have to know that you're really remorseful, and you want to do something for your marriage and for yourself. I know that we have a Prague trip next week and we're trying to arrange things, you're tired but please do not forget that working on yourself and our marriage keeps me in peace.In that way I remember that I was in love with you and I can be one day again. Running away is a solution also but you can't run away from yourself. It's better for you to think honestly about your dreams, your life goals, and decide if I'm in these dreams. I don't want you to be resentful about your career. If you think that you career is more important than me it's better to leave me. If you think that you can have both you have to work on yourself to be stronger cause it will be much more difficult.
My dream was to have a happy family with a person that I could love and share my life. I would be happy if you share your thoughts with me.
I want to thank you for the roses.
Your husband Johnalone
BH-me-31
WW-28
M:2,5
before M:1
no kids
D-day:May-2005
Recovery:?
johnalone@mail.com
English is not my mother tongue
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All opinions are welcome by the way, if my wife agrees <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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Hi.
Finally, my H left home yesterday. We sometimes have arguments when my H was having strong emotions, after that he was calmed down in following days. But he has never tried to leave home. Yesterday was of course different because my mom has visited us. The reason for her visit was our apartment. She has paid the half of the price of our apartment but on the deed her name was not written so she was not one of the heritor. By the time we were signing the deed it was her wish not to be written on the paper. But when she has learned that I and my H have some serious marriage problems she insisted on changing the deed in order to include her name. In other words she wants to quarantee her money. I and my H are agree to change it but it was not the right time to the this because my H was the person who let know my mom that I had an A. As far as I know my H had told her everything and he also told her that we (I and my H) will try to make our marriage work. He was willing to try. I was knowing that she knows A but
I did not know how much and what everything means, and I also did not know that my H would try on marriage.
My H did not behave well to my mom yesterday. I was very sick since last Saturday. I had to go to emergency. I will tell later what happened to me on Saturday and how was my H's reactions. My mom thought that he was breaking her pride. I told her that I and my H have problems and we may be separated. But as usual she was not convinced. Then she started to ask us if we could not solve our problems. As I wrote to MB I was thinking that some of the reasons of A depend on how my mom and dad behaved me when I was growing up. We started to talked about those details. Unfortunately I am not the one who started the conversation. My H did it. He was thinking that I am afraid of talking to her.Yes, that’s true I was not ready to talk to her yet. I did not want her to be sad. She had lots of problems of her own. My H was only his son-in law but he thought that he had a right to criticize her. During that conversation my H told me that I did not try enough for our marriage since D day. I was frustrated. I have changed my working schedule, I have been giving him more time, I have trusted myself, I did not pay attention to things that I am not able to change etc. Those things are new things for me. I am really happy to changed my life view. I am telling “I wish” rarely. If I was trying enough I would talked to my H’s brother long time ago, this was what my H thinks. This does not make sense to me right now. Because I do not know if our marriage will continue or not. If we decided to continue I would like to talk to him. He and my mom know my A. I really do not want anybody to learn my A . I am in a humiliating position. My H told me that It is my responsibility how to save this marriage and I should do more than that. But he is not willing to tell me what he wants and what kind of things are more important for him. So I have to be sibyl. He told me that he wants to e-mailed to my professors in order to explain what had happened between me and OM. He believes that my professor are good Christians and they may fire him. By this way he may be comfortable. When I ask him what they may think about me, he told me he is not interested in. He said OM put a trigger to his heart what I should expect from him.
I have to go to see my therapist right now. I took an appointment from her eventhough I talked to her on the phone last night . I need to talk to someone. Because my mom and my H have left me.
I will continue writing.....
Last edited by berry77; 10/17/05 07:46 AM.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,204
Member
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Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,204 |
Berry
Have you read my recovery guide located in my signature - it will help you figure out where to start even if your husband wont tell you what he wants. Your husband is angry and hurt - you destroyed him and all he is - and that is why he doesn't care about exposing you to people. And you know what - he is just as humiliated as you are...his wife slept with someone else - what kind of husband is he that he can't hold on to his own wife - he is going through more than you.
Hold your head high, and remember that it isn't your husband who is humiliating you because he is telling people - while he shouldn't, if he does, it really is your affair that is humiliating you. And you must get past that. Own your affair. Realize it was in the past and what in you made you do it, and how to heal, and how to grow, and how to learn and protect yourself.
I see a man who loves you dearly by the post above (johnalone) and you know what - he is telling you what he wants right in that post. It's time to do a little self sacrifice and make it about your husband while he heals. The affair was about you - now early recovery is about your husband. it's a tough balance, as you need to recovery to - but learning this balance is going to make you better, stronger, whole again.
Anyways - read the link in my signature called REcovery Guide for Wayward Wives....
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