What is the URL for submitting LB questionaire? I was given www.marriagebuilders.com/lbinv.html but it doesn't work. Maybe I wrote it down wrong, could someone who has had a session with Dr Harley please let me know what it is.

If it can't be publicly viewed, just PM me.


Thanks

Welcome back,

Can't help you with the LB thing but I was concerned about you. Any update.

ACT

BTW - the PM feature doesn't work on these boards anymore but somebody will post the info you need.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4502_lbq.html
hopefully this will work for you. I just copied all the questionaires.

kds - Thanks for the reply, apparently there is a LB question page that I submit to MB directly which Dr. Harley can view b4 our session, I think the one u gave me is the 'general' one.

Anyone else know??

Hi Act, thanks for the concern,

Things have been going better, I exposed her about 2 weeks ago and it was devasting to her. Got all the typical responses but after 1 week, she did commit to not contact the OM, but is being stubborn and won't send him a letter and insisting on doing it 'her' way. She has talk about MC which is positive, but I think it will be of little value until the affair is truly over. She has also admitted to me that she is not long-term with this OM, and it is screwing up her life.

She has gone to a GF this past weekend to get away (a city 3 hour away). I am 99% sure (100% sure doesn't seem realistic for anything anymore) that this had nothing to do with the OM.

The good news (I think) is that she phoned me twice from her GF number asking if I was OK and if I was upset at all that she was away. I replied no (honest feelings for me), and proceeded to tell her about my weekend being with friends etc. I have been doing alot of plan A with her, and she seems to be enjoying it to some degree. I felt it was important to display more confidence in myself and in my relation to her (again real feelings). We did have a couple of arguments last week, where one time I told her "I want you, but I don't need you". I think that worried her a bit and shot some more reality into her fuzzy world. Don't worry I am still doing plan A and also minimizing LB's. I think things are starting to come around, she will be back shortly and I am curious to what her attitude will be when she walks in the door. One thing I have learned in this experience is to expect the unexpected (good or bad).

Thanks all

try www.marriagebuilders.com/lbi.html

Bob:

Real quick here.........if you believe your own fogged out statement quoted above, I would ask you to email me so we can discuss some nice "water" property I have in Florida that I am sure would be a profitable investment for you down the line.

Using a 99% probability of this in the scenario above that " this had nothing to do with the OM", is BS fog to a severe degree. I am all for "supporting" you here, but you should rexamine things so you are not left so heartbroken when you find out the inevitable truth here.

Knowledge is power here.

Thanks Lemonman,

All I was saying that she wasn't with the OM at the GF place. Unfortunately, she is 3 hours overdue, and I have a pretty bad feeling why. It will be interesting to hear her 'story' when she comes in. I won't confront tonight but I will talk to Dr. Harley tomorrow about it.

Just when you think the tide is turning, GOD DAMN THIS SUCKS!!!!!

Bob;

I second Lemonman. Your WW didn't have to be so crafty when you were gone all the time, but now that she's busted and your up her butt, she may be attempting to be more devious. The nice phone calls checking in with you may just be a ruse or a pre-emptive strike to keep you from checking up on her, especially at an untimely moment. She may just want to know what you know and keep you off balance and trusting.

The GF could just be covering for her. Have you spoken with her on a land line confirming her presence at the GF home? Be careful here - she could use her cell, call GF then have GF call you and 3 way you into a conversation. So you must call the land line yourself. If you don't know it then use the internet to get it.

On the bright side. I know you've read enough here that this wouldn't suprise you. You'd just still be in cake-eater land fighting to bust up the affair.

Hopefully, we are wrong.

ACT OUT

No, I know this through other 'means' when she should have been home and I do know she was at her GF. Now she is with the OM and it pisses me off. GRRRRRRRR

Keep your cool when she arrives. You know what she's doing so why bother grilling her over it. Easier said then done.

Stick to your plan. Keep Plan A'ing and trying to break through the fog. Ask questions and then listen, listen, listen. You've got the appointment tomorrow to address your issues with the real professional, Dr. Harley.

If she is going to be involved with such appointment then don't blow it tonight.

Have you called GF to find out when she left? You probably won't get the truth anyway.

You have my sympathy.
ACT

Bob:

Untill there is TRUE NC and a COMMITTMENT to RECOVERY, you are much better served ASSUMING she is lying to you and ASSUMING that she is continuing the affair. I would ASSUME all of her actions during this are self serving and are a way to keep her illicit affair thriving.

You already know that she cheated and betrayed you and potentially exposed you to life threatning diseases and you are still desiring reconciliation, so how much worse can it get? You have absorbed every man's worst nightmare and are still standing and desiring your Wayward Wife.

It is my UN-expert opinion that this will help remove the "doubt" completely for you, and will help keep the rollercoaster at at least one speed.

You seem like a bright and capable man. Accept that premise while you try and do whatever "plan" that is advised to you by the good Willard Harley, PhD (I think that is what he is) tomorrow.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for the support,

When she gets home, I will be cool tonight and I will follow his advice tomorrow, I guess my call to him is now really timely.

Quick question, is the general plan to keep pressuring the affair ie continued exposure, new exposure etc.

Just wondering

You should really wait for tomorrow before you do anything. If you find WW in a talkative mood, just ask questions and again, listen, listen, listen. She probably won't be cause she just let OM fill her needs. However, if you do find yourself in a conversation with her and want something to talk about try finding out a little bit more about the OM.

Because she's a cake eater the presumption is that she is in conflict over her choices. There must be somethings about the OM she is unsure of. In this conversatons you may discover ways you can later bust up the affair. Don't be judgmental, she is seriously waivering and will not appreciate disrespectful judgments. Later, this information may assist you with finding ways to subversively attack either your WW's insecurties about OM or the OM, himself. For example, OM may be really insecure about his intelligence in comparison with you and you could use every opportunity to be cocky about how intelligent you are in comparison. When WW discusses this with OM (because they can't stop talking about you) it will infuriate him and make him appear less than perfect. This is a tactic to be used later, but exploiting your enemy's insecurities is a way to speed up the affair ending cycle. Money, Sex, Johnson size, physical appearance, age, maturity, family are all things to consider.

Just something to think about.

ACT

Yet another great post by Act...(Act, your advice is always dead on...you rock!)

Bob...listen to his advice, my husband used all kinds of tactics in attacking the OM's insecurities, and it DOES work WONDERS!!!

Good Luck with the Steve Harley appt.!

Mrs. Wondering

Thanks ACT and Wonderings,

WW is still not home, beginning to wonder if she will be home tonight. I am bit surprised that she is this late as she knows it will bring suspicion to what she is up to.

I guess her fix is much more important than worrying about what time she gets home.

I do know alot of OM insecurities, (there are many). What are some of your best examples of playing on these. Just need some ideas.

Thanks so much again, you people are wonderful!!!!!!

Wow a question right up my alley. Mrs. Wonderings insisted I post.

I wish I could find where I posted about this before and link it in but here goes...

I found that I was compulsively monitering Mrs. Wondering for contact and I decided that I needed to passively find ways to attack the OM...Basically to give my mind something else to think about and be more proactive. It's not the healthiest thing to do as it is "other" focused but it beats just being miserable.

I, like you I presume, consider myself to be the superior man. This is usually the case as nearly all WS's "affair-down". You see, the "neglected type" WS's necessarily finds someone beneath them that will idolize them as they were once idolized in high school/college. At our age it takes a pretty insecure dolt to be willing to do that. More likely than not, your OM is a predator exploiting your WW's insecurities for his own sexual conquest. His false sense of masculinity (notches on his bedpost) are often over compensating behaviors designed to cover his own insecurities. It is safe to presume that a secure man doesn't go after married women when seeking a meaningful relationship. These insecurites are usually vast and numerous.

Remember, your WW thinks he is her knight in shining armor coming to her emotional rescue. Ironically, it is you that appear as unmasculine to your WW. Her conversations with the OM feed his ego with statements building that ego in comparison to how needy, insecure and unmasculine that you are behaving. My wife's OM even stated to my wife how impressed he was with himself by the fact he thought he was stealing some "millionaire attorney's hot blonde wife". He inquired about our money constantly perhaps in hopes that my wife would walk away with a substantial divorce settlement.

So where am I going with this? My wife really hasn't been involved with our finances, ever. So I really had the opportunity to tell her anything about money and our finances that I wanted to...knowing, of course, that anything that I said would be repeated to OM. I talked to her about her spending problem. She was, in fact, spending way too much, but I exaggerated the spending saying that in 2004 alone, she spent $80,000.00 herself. Since the OM was recently divorced, living with his parents, working at Enterprise making about $40,000.00 per year he seriously and openly expressed his concern about whether or not he could afford my wife. Then later I let interesting details slip about our financial situation and how bad it was...Because we own businesses, and own no real property, I let my wife in on the fact that the businesses would be valued, for divorce purposes, at only a liquidation value and she'd maybe end up getting about $20,000-$25,000 per year for 5-6 years from which she'd have to pay me child support as I'd get custody...Specifically, I needed OM to know there would be no lump-sum cash payoff. I was careful not to express any of this as "we're getting divorced" threats or anything...just me calmly stating that I'd met with a divorce attorney to contemplate what would happen if she left me. As predicted, WW discussed this with OM and he can't help but be disillusioned. He's thinking I better be careful what I ask for, I just might get it. She spends way more than OM can afford and she's not going to leave the marriage with much of anything. All of the sudden, OM starts to come out of the fog and into reality. When OM started get antsy, guess what, WW started feeling a little more insecure about OM's resolve to continue. This coincided with me effectively Plan A'ing, not giving them hours upon hours to communicate freely, and having them constantly concerned with how I was monitering them. The hassle grew to big and guess what...a few weeks later OM breaks off the affair.

Another angle I utilized was I knew how badly my wife has wanted plastic surgery. A tummy-tuck, to be exact. I thought maybe I could keep her around this summer (giving me more time to Plan A) by setting an appointment with a plastic surgeon for a consultation and setting the ball in motion for her to get a tummy-tuck. OM could never conceive of having, wasting, or spending so much money on such. I knew I could call off the surgery if I wanted to and/or if she were to file for divorce I could probably get the cost for such surgery to come out of her share of any divorce settlement (classifying it as monies spent in furtherance of an affair and on her credit card). Another real benefit would be during her recovery when I would get the opportunity to Plan A her and meet her needs exclusively. Taking care of a bed ridden wife is a great way to (re-)fill a love bank.

Attacking on the other side of the affair is a little easier. My wife told me everything I need to know. She indicated to me that OM lacked my sense of humor and my intelligence amoung other things. So my Plan A included being humerous and engaging in intelligent conversation and activities. For example, I took my 5 year old daughter to a community opera performance ("Verde's Requiem" - It sounds intelligent just saying the words). Another example, my wife would discuss OM's politics and overtly racist views. Because my wife and I share similiar political and identical 21st century racial views it wasn't hard for me to knock OM's views and by inference his intelligence in seemingly casual conversation.

The overall effectiveness of such "attacks" comes mainly from regaining your own security. You need to know that you are the better man. So, just as you begin to behave as though you are no longer afraid of losing your wife, the OM's insecurities and your wife's insecurities about OM start to become clearer to them both. Their misguided idealism begins to erode and perhaps the idealism she once had of you begins to surface.

Please post exactly what your WW's OM's insecurities are and any ideas you have about exploiting them. Hopefully the board and I can suggest or elaborate upon a strategy. You must be careful. These strategies can backfire. Sometimes OM might feel challenged by a perceived threat to his manhood and just when he was about to walk away from the affair he jumps back in to beat you or otherwise save WW from her seemingly stuck up, conceited, arrogant husband. Who knows what they think but when you mess with irrational affair partners their responses to outside stimuli can only be surmissed with so much certainty. So please post your ideas so rational minds can advise you.

Got to go, Good luck, Mr. Wondering

Thanks for the long post with good ideas!!

WW is still not home, apparently she wants to be blatant about seeing him tonight.

I will post some insecurities tomorrow, and my thoughts about them.

Ok, so much for the suspense here are some of his insecurities:

Insecure career - no career path
No direction in life
Pot Smoker - wife doesn't like
Smoker
Young
Told my ww he 'love her' after two weeks
No money
Lives at home
Seasonal job
Presumbly not very intelligent

His strengths:

Outgoing
Complimentary
Good in bed (painful to hear)
Puts her high on the totem pole
Gives her tons of attention
They 'never have bad moments together'

My first take on this

Are you the athletic type. He probably hated and was intimidated by the JOCKS in High School. If so my quick thought was get involved in some sport. Make it the sport you excelled at in high school so your WW will perhaps throw that into her conversation with OM. The pot heads hated the Jocks though in some schools they were the same group but maybe you get the idea and take it from there.

I'm going to go back and think about the list overnight. Unless something strikes me immediately. Then I'll have to post it.

Good Luck, Mr. Wondering

I think I need a list of your strengths and what your wife would list as your insecurities to be able to really come up with an idea or two.

All I know is you like hockey and Canadian Beer

Mr. W

Another thought. He's a dreamer. Women are intrigued by dreamers but ultimately NEED and WANT a do'er. Think of somethings you've dreamed of doing and as part of your Plan A make it or them happen. You've got the money, you work hard and deserve to have your dreams come true. There's no time like the present to spend your money rather than divide it up in a potential divorce. You will get to demonstrate to WW the difference in your relationship is that dreams feasibly can come true. The affair fantasy world lives on dreams of a future together but this OM is all talk. He doesn't have the mental nor financial ability to acheive his dreams and you getting yours may magnify that. Your wife may be impressed and OM will perhaps demonstate some unbecoming jealousy especially if one of your dreams matches something he wishes he could do. In the meantime, YOU GET A DREAM OR TWO FULFILLED.

Examples - Go Skydiving, Sign up for Pilot's lessons, look into booking a trip to Europe, South America, Go White Water Rafting in Costa Rica,

You don't have to follow through with it but set in motion a plan to "do" something big - Safari in Africa, Running for Political Office, your own plastic surgery.

The perception that your a do'er is what your after. You may just bore your wife with constant details of what your doing when away on a work trip. In comparison to the nothing that OM does it will make OM seem so lazy and unproductive. Eventually, reality will set in with these two so all your positives over OM's negatives need to be highlighted innocuously and to ad nauseam.

Mr. W