Killerjoe1, I’ve saw the posts you’ve sent on the thread: “Engaged and found porn magazine” and I want to comment on it, but I don’t want to threadjack banshee24’s thread and therefore I’ve decided to call you out here.

You have posted the following on the other thread:

AND


Killerjoe, since banshee24’s H claims to be a Christian, I want you to read the following paragraph from the book ”The Purpose Driven Life” which was written by a CHRISTIAN MAN on this topic. The author of the book is Rick Warren (a pastor). Since I’m not a man, the paragraph underneath will give you the perspective of a man, BUT the perspective of a man who are Christian and want to obey God’s commandments. Here it is (the paragrahps in blue):

[color:"blue"] It is not a sin to be tempted. Jesus was tempted, yet he never sinned. Temptation only becomes a sin when you give in to it. Martin Luther said, “You cannot keep birds from flying over your head but you can keep them from building a nest in your hair.” You can’t keep the Devil from suggesting thoughts, but you can choose not to dwell or act on them.

For example, many people don’t know the difference between physical attraction or sexual arousal, and lust. They are not the same. God made every one of us a sexual being, and that is good. Attraction and arousal are the natural, spontaneous, God-given responses to physical beauty, while lust is a deliberate act of the will. Lust is a choice to commit in your mind what you’d like to do with your body. You can be attracted or even aroused without choosing to sin by lusting. Many people, especially Christian men, feel guilty that their God-given hormones are working. When they automatically notice an attractive woman, they assume it is lust and feel ashamed and condemned. But attraction is not lust until you begin to dwell on it.[/color]

Killerjoe, you are right, sexual desire IS a basic human desire and ALL people have this desire (including Christians) BUT there are appropriate AND inappropriate ways to release this desire… And if someone is Christian and want to obey God’s commandments, the viewing of pornography or having fantasies of other women (or women having fantasies of other men) IS wrong, sinful and inappropriate… And this is not just my opinion, but also the opinion of GOD and JESUS.

I also understand that men are visual and because of their high testosterone level, have strong sexual desires, BUT the fact that men are visual isn’t an excuse for them to deliberately look at porn, practice ‘mental adultery’ and do other things to reduce women to ‘sex objects’.

Please read the following verse:

Matthew 5:27 – 30:

Quote:

Quote

"You have heard that the law of Moses says, `Do not commit adultery.' 28 But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust in his eye has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 So if your eye-even if it is your good eye*-causes you to lust, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into h e l l. 30 And if your hand-even if it is your stronger hand*-causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into h e l l.

When Jesus said ”anyone who even looks at a woman with lust in his eye has already committed adultery with her in his heart”, he was referring to ANY woman (whether the woman is ‘alive’ and/or on the internet/magazine). The fact is, porn women on the internet/magazines are real peple who exist – they are just reduced to ‘sex objects’, but the fact is, they ARE real people. So, whether a man commits adultery in the mind with a ‘live’ or internet/magazine woman, it is still the same and adultery in the eyes of Jesus… If a man looks at a porn woman lustfully and imagine/fantasize about sexual encounters with her in his mind, he IS “longing for what is forbidden” and is committing adultery in the mind and therefore an adulterer in the eyes of Jesus. Period. You can justify and rationalize around this as much as you want, but the fact remains that this IS wrong and sinful in God’s and Jesus eyes.

I've been wishing somebody would come on and outline the Bible point-of-view in full, but never had the time to do it myself. Nice job, Suzet.

t&l

^^^Bump^^^

Suzet, I think you’ll find that KillerJoe is pretty much a hit and run poster. He seems to like to stir the pot and flee. One day I do hope that he stays around.

Joe,

“””I think it is unreasonable to expect that a man never look at pornography or have fantasies of other women.”””

Well, Joe old buddy, I am a man last time I checked and do not think it’s unreasonable at all to expect a man not to look at porn. Furthermore, a man who professes faith should have an understanding of what porn is, A SIN, and stay away from it. Fantasies about other women, sure I had them when I was like 15 but then I grew up.

“””If you are not willing to "pick up the slack" in his sexual desires, than what is he supposed to do about them?”””

I have to admit, this is the lamest mis-informed excuse I’ve heard in my life. That’s a pretty weak justification so that someone doesn’t have to take responsibility for their choices. It’s a choice, you choose to click your mouse on a porn site, you choose to pay for a smut magazine, you choose to drive to the strip club, not because of someone not “picking up the slack”, because you choose to do that. And what the heck does it mean to “pick up the slack”? What’s that all about? As has been suggested to you, Joe, by several people, read the information on this site or talk to a psychologist about the issue and you’ll find a common theme. When you are meeting the top emotional needs of your spouse, more than likely they are going to meet yours as well. If I remember correctly, you chose to have an affair. You didn’t have that affair because you wife wasn’t a super model. You didn’t have it because she was holding out on you. You didn’t have it because anything she did or didn’t do. You did it because you made the decision to have sexual relations with a person other than your wife.

Suzet made wonderful comment about sexual desires and about the adultery of pornography, no reason for me to restate the obvious.

“””If you are a woman, then you do not have much authority on the subject of what a man wants or thinks or feels. You're opinion is as valid as a man's opinion on what WOMEN are all about.”””

Well Joe, I’m a man and I totally, completely, 100% disagree with what you’re saying. As a matter of fact, I pretty much totally agree with what these non-authoritative women had to say. It ain’t rocket science here we are talking about, it’s basic human psychology. Men and women who choose to learn more about the opposite sex have tons of resources at their feet to learn. Some of us have taken the opportunity to do so in an effort to improve our relations. Heck there are women on these boards that have a better intimate understanding of man than most of the men that post here and vice versa. And then there is divine understanding. Well, we’ll just leave that alone for right now because it speaks for itself as you’ve already seen.

”””Until you ARE a man, don't project your own insecurities onto the general population of males. It is quite arrogant.”””

Joe, buddy, insecure and arrogant could be used to describe a lot of people on these boards, but I don’t think it’s any that have posted to you. Typically it’s the person who comes here thinking they did no wrong and know it all. They push their views against the basic principles of psychology, the principles of this site, and the principles of the Good Book. They have mastered the art of rationalizing and justifying their poor behavior. The lay blame for their weakness squarely on everyone else’s shoulders. Does that sound like someone you know?

Joe, if you are happy in your life then their really isn’t a lot to say but if you are willing to believe that there is a better way then please do the leg work to get it.

LostHusband, thanks for your contribution to this thread. I do hope KillerJoe will read this thread. I always get upset when people try to justify and rationalize such disrespectful & sinfull behavior... It also hit a nerve with me when women are reduced to ‘sex objects’. I find it very disgusting. I don’t know why I have such a strong reaction towards this, but I guess it comes from issues of childhood. I also get mad at the women at porn clubs and in porn magazines/Internet; prostitutes etc. who allow themselves to be ‘used’ like this and show so much disrespect towards their own bodies. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

You guys did a good job. Thanks.

SS

Suzet, I just love you! This was a brilliant, articulate, intelligent response. Good job! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks Melody! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

KillerJoe, I just read the following you posted over in recovery yesterday:

So Joe, are you saying that MOST men are so weak and vulnerable that they won’t be able to say NO to a woman (other than his W) who wants sex? REALLY??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Joe, the fact the probably YOU will not be able to resist adulterous sex from another woman if the opportunity presents itself, don’t give you the authority to say that MOST men will not be able to resist and say no… If your statement is true that MOST men will act this way, then it will also be better for MOST women to stay single and not get married...and then I probably should have not got married myself! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Joe, I think what you have said above is a gross insult and disrespectful remark towards the men in this world who still have high morals and will be able to act appropriately in tempting situations (including FWH's who have temporarily get off the road, who have made wrong choices, but have made a turnaround and have become better & faithfull men and H's).

Of course anyone can make a mistake - even good, religious people with high morals and conscience can make a mistake - but to say that MOST men will give in to adulterous sex if faced by a seductive woman is just too over the top for me... Or maybe I'm too naive???

Really? Difficult? Naw.... Difficult is rushing a child to the hospital not saying no to cheap sex, that's easy. I was married over 12 years, had no difficulty in saying no. Divorced over 3.5, again, had no touble saying no. It's actually quite easy to do the right thing especially if you make it a habit to keep doing the next right thing. However the opposite is also true, if one is engaged in a lifestyle where they are continually doing the wrong thing, then it's very easy to keep on keeping on.


Joe at the last "man" convention, I don't recall electing you as spokeman for the male population. And frankly Joe, that thinking is plain and simply wrong. The majority of men are not that vulnerable. However, I can understand a statement like that coming from a man who had an affair and was still trying to justify his actions, rather than simply accept responsibility.


Wonderful point Suzet and so true. People do screw up. But how they choose to deal with their mistakes is what tells the true story.



No, Suzet, don't think you're naive on this one at all. Remember back in high school when you had to do a science experiment? When we did those we always had to have a "control", which typically was an uninfected or normal speciman. In a case where we have a person projecting their rationalization out on the masses for their behavior, I somehow don't think that's our "control" sample....