Ok. First, though, you didn't answer my earlier questions. What makes you think the affair is over? Why do you think there is no contact? I mean other than her telling you. Because when they are in the middle of an affair, they lie, lie, and then lie some more. They sometimes lie about things that don't even matter. They find themselves lying about anything and everything. Their whole life BECOMES a lie. It is one of the hardest things to deal with in an affair - how do you know when it's over, when the answer will be the same whether it's over or not. You have to start relying on other clues.

Her not wanting intimacy could be a facet of her guilt - or it could be an indicator that the affair is still going strong. So far, several of the things you've said are indicators that the affair could still be underway.

The comments I posted are actually from over a month ago and she told me that I found out when the A was basically over she just didn’t know how to end it, because she was in-love with him.

Ok that’s more fog talk but as dumb as it sounds I believe her, when I confronted her she told me that she could never hurt me again. She has told me that she is very sorry and she has been with me almost around the clock since I found out and I have been checking her cell phone records.

Ok, so my next question is - are you in MC? Your timeline isn't in your sig anymore, but if I'm remembering correctly, DDay was July, right? So, if there really was NC since then, withdrawal should be past. Which means that if there are intimacy issues, either A is still on-going, or there are other issues that haven't been addressed.

What are the two of you doing to work on recovery?

Fool-

Good choices! Now, your wife is full of s*** and will be for quite a while. Just accept that.

My wife was "in love" with an ex-con (5 yrs for assault/battery) and she is a college educated, very attractive woman in a good marriage with a good family all the way around. They were soulmates, he had insight, he was so romantic, blah blah blah...

Give it time, be a prince, treat her like a princess, and don't get angry around her. Stats say she'll come around, but until she does you will hear a lot of bovine excrement that you can't believe.

My wife had no intention of leaving me either...really! She just wanted some drama and ended up having unprotected sex with this scumbag and then sleeping with me! Yep, she was willing to risk our marriage and our health for a total waste of human flesh.

So you see, they become aliens, and you must think of them as such while you stay on your best behavior. It's fun, but it gets better.

Good Luck

I’m the one that thinks there is a problem with our intimacy not my W. I spoke to her about it last night and she told me that she doesn’t see it the same way as I do. We have been intimate but only on the weekends and it seems to be the last thing we do and not very romantic. For what ever reason I have been concerned about my performance lately and the last time created an anxiety issue, which she said wasn’t a big deal. I think of her pleasing another man and it’s not a very pleasant thought, I wanted all of those special moments to be with me.

As far as recovery, I have been reading mainly here at MB, but she wants things to return to normal. We spend a lot of time together having dinners and shopping.

Do Not talk over marriage problems with the opposite sex. This is how my husband's EA got started. Them exchanging marriage woes and mother's health problems.
It is NEVER a good idea to counsel the opposite sex on marriage if you are not a conselor.
Do that increases risk of affair.

Ah - that makes MUCH more sense. Some of the guys here could probably help you more with this than I could, but I understand that's not an uncommon problem for a male BS (even if the A was only EA).

And her wanting things to return to normal is pretty normal too - the WS usually wants things to just go back to what they were as quickly as possible, with as little talk of the A and the problems leading up to it as possible.

Of course, you haven't solved anything, which brings us back to her comment about Pandora's box. And also about "getting it out of your system". She's looking for fixes to the problems in all the wrong places.

Is there any chance you two could do some marital counseling together? I know she would probably be reluctant - I'm guessing she might see it as you wanting to go rake her over the coals for the affair. But it sounds like you two do need to start getting to some of the reasons behind her affair. And you may be surprised - frequently, the BS has as many, if not more, reasons that would seem to justify an affair (though nothing truly justifies one.) It's just that the BS didn't act on it.

My W claims that she has no excuse other than she feel in love. It’s so hard to hear that…I just would prefer that she said she now realizes how much she loves me.

Anytime I talk about it she gets upset and says I do it to hurt her.

My wife did the return to normal stuff too- she even wanted to go house hunting a week after d-day! Of course a few weeks later she admitted to false recovery and that the EA was really a PA...them WS folks is plumb crazy.

Ok...I could not even read all of the replies to your thread, so if somebody said this already you can ignore it.

It is so easy for the BS to take the moral superiority after the affair...Some relish in it...and claim they would NEVER be able to do such a thing, when in fact the A should have taught them that the right circumstances can put it into motion for ANYONE. I am sorry that when you asked for advice all you seem to have gotten( and granted I think I only made it through the first page and a half with disgust) was moral highground answers.

I asked my H to read through this and answer me as a FWS what he really thought about this...and he basically said...he would be hurt, but deep down he would know that he deserves it. He was shocked by the FWS now BS who feel that their pain is just as much as the original BS. It could never truly be the same, b/c he would always think there was a REAL reason to turn me into a WS...for him there wasn't. So, the pain could never be as great as it was for me, who did nothing wrong. He says if the FWS thinks his/her pain is the same..then they just do not really understand HOW much pain they have caused. He also thinks the fog talk is a bunch of hooey...but that is another post:D

However, with that being said...although I think most BS at least THINK about a revenge A...they should NOT act on it. In a way you already have...and maybe you can see now how easily it was for your wife to fall...I started chatting with a guy online shortly after...and it did make me see how easy it was to get into it all...the only exception was that my H saw every conversation...so, it was not quite the same. He also saw some of the hurt I might be going through...jealousy type thing....and it was a real turning point for him in our recovery. Maybe this will happen to you.

As for you wife...I just noticed that you seem to be having some other problems...she still sounds like she is being selfish. I am not an expert on this as I think my H has become the least selfish FWS I have ever seen on these boards...and I LOVE HIM for it! I hope that she does turn around...and if you have not already been in counseling...get there.

So, my long post...which I know already will bring some heat my way.....is basically saying the same thing. End it now...but do not feel like you are some evil guy who did the same thing to your W. Just be honest with her, and let her see any communication that you get from the OW. And, definietly find a new massage therapist...that is a little too much touching! It will go a long way...and maybe she will start becoming less and less selfish.

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edited to add: I just went back and read the rest of the posts...there are some good ones in there. Hope everything helps in some way!

Ugh.... yes, I hate to say it, but I am still leaning a bit towards false recovery here. At the very least, she is covering over things, trying to avoid having to tell you any details about the affair. The excuses they give are that they don't want to hurt you, and the details would only hurt you, and since it's over what would it matter anyway. Or they go on the defensive, and say you are only bringing it up to hurt them back.

In reality, if the affair is over, they don't want to talk about it because they are avoiding conflict. Because after having an affair, they cannot seem to make themselves turn around and tell you what was missing in the marriage - to "blame" you for the affair.

And let me make it clear - you ARE NOT to blame for the affair. You are partly to blame for the conditions that led up to the affair, and so is she. The decision to deal with those problems by having an affair is all her own.

But now, blame doesn't matter. If you don't figure out what went wrong, it will go wrong again.

So, if she is trying to cover up and move on because she is avoiding conflict, you're going to have to help her feel safe to tell you what needs weren't being met. This site can help with that - keep reading Dr. Harley's articles.

If she's covering because you're in false recovery and the affair is still going on, then you have another problem. And I know you say you are together all the time, but... you'd be surprised. I was - several times - before I caught on.

I'll say it again - you're biggest problem is the things someone says when they are in the middle of an affair and lying about it can be indistinguishible from what a newly discovered WS says. So how do you tell the difference? Actions are a big one. Do the actions match up with the words? Also, do they start moving beyond that "newly discovered" stage. Your wife has supposedly been beying discovery and in NC for several months now. She should be beyond the surly withdrawal stage and in the "how in the world could I have done that and how can I ever make it up to him" repentent stage, unless she's a world-class conflict avoider.

So, you've got to start making it safe for her to talk to you and tell you where the problems are, and for you to figure that out for you too. That's why I would really recommend an MC.

Well - let me see - I am the FWS that said that. I never said it was the same pain - but it was a horrible pain none the less. Before my H's A - I felt just like your H does - it would hurt as bad as there would be a reason...that because I had mine, I could rationalize and understand him. Guess what - I WAS WRONG. H having and A and leaving me hurt me MORE than I ever expected it to. I had been committed to 7 months of recovery at that point - I had been working my bum off changing, meeting his needs - doing everything I can - making HUGE changes to myself, soul wretching changes - learning so many things I did not like about myself.

But watching him distance himself, and repeat behaviors I had made killed me. You know why? Because we had just been through all this - he KNEW what affairs do - he KNEW what pain it caused and yet he did it none the less - and took it a step further and left us - didn't talk to his kids for a month.

I had been punished for my acts, and if this was one more punishement so be it - but this was the hurt of all hurts as punishment. And like your husband - I thought it wouldn't hurt as bad, or the same.

And all that rationalizations - I did relate it back to my affair, or things I had done, but that made it hurt worse, as anger came in too - because he KNEW what it had done to him and he thought it would hurt me less...and everytime I tried to compare a justification I got MORE confused and MORE hurt - my Affair first didn't make it hurt less, it made it MORE confusing.

His reasons, his justifications, werent even my Affair, they were where he was at 7 months down the road - wanting to leave, thinking marrying me at all was a mistake. And he wanted out, he wanted to feel good, replace me... don't think that hurt? Even though I did the same? It still hurt unbelievable. The only reason I got through it during the time he left is I had 6 months of marriage builders, changing and strength in me.

I dont know if my hurt was the same as my husbands hurt - probably not...but my hurt was unbelievable and everyday I am still healing - and we are 3 months past - I didn't just "GET OVER IT" like many BS may think a WS will do cause they did it too.

Your H would probably be SHOCKED to find out how much it WOULD hurt him if you had an affair - right now he feels it wouldn't hurt him as much cause he did it - I felt the same way - until it DID happen to me.

And let me tell you - I know the pain I caused my husband, I watched him selfdestroy - I almost commited suicide over the guilt and remorse of what I had done, and recommitted my life to changing ME for the better - anyone here can tell you that.

I have not asked my H to change ANYTHING about him, nor do I blame him - heck - I even take the blame for the neglect he caused me - if I had known how to communicate differently - then he would have never neglected me - I ALLOWED that neglect.

And me having an affair, is no REAL reason for my H to have an affair - two wrongs do not make a right. I was blindsighted by his A just as much as anyone else here, as I thought we were turly recovering from my A...

I do not take blame for my husband's affair either - his reasons are his reasons, his actions are his actions. He had the right to leave me, he had the right to demand changes, but he had NO more right to have an affair to feel better, than I did to have an affair to feel better. So no - there was no REASON for him to have an affair, no more than me having a REASON to have an affair.

I didn't expect it to tear me so deeply, and sadly it did. It surprised me how devestated and torn I was, and how my affair did nothing to help me heal from his - all it did was let me understand how a person can get to where they do, and understand how he got to that point...

and his affair??? all it did for him was the same thing - understand how a person can get into a mess.

NEITHER of us understand eachother's affairs better, as our justifications, reasons, and affairs were drastically different, and being men and women, we feel different and have different perspectives on things that make sense.

So maybe my hurt was less? I wont argue that - but I am not in other BS's shoes, I am only in mine, and let me tell you - I lost the weight, I puked at night, I cried for weeks on end with barely a break - I was confused, I was frustrated, my soul ached. But because I was a FWS first - it's not the same?